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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview with UVA Student Council President Jalen Ross; New Details On Failed Hostage Rescue Mission; Friend Of South African Hostage Talks With CNN; Start Spreading The News: Royals In New York City

Aired December 08, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to "The Lead." In other national headlines today, three national fraternal organizations demanded the University of Virginia reinstate fraternities and sororities on campus today. The school suspended the groups after a now discredited "Rolling Stone" magazine article. The story detailed a first-year student named Jackie, who claimed to have been gang raped at a fraternity. Critics pointed out some discrepancies in the article. Last Friday, the magazine apologized for not doing what seems to be basic journalistic due diligence in verifying Jackie's story. Over the weekend, the magazine updated its initial apology. That initial one said it misplaced its trust in Jackie. Now, they say, quote, "these mistakes are on Rolling Stone, not on Jackie." The fraternity named in the article, Phi Kappa Psi, has said the story is full of false allegations.

CNN investigations correspondent Sara Ganim is live at that fraternity, just steps from the UVA campus in Charlottesville. Sara, thanks for joining us. Has the university, have they responded at all to the demands that the fraternity system be reinstated?

SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: No, not yet, Jake. I want to make it clear, those demands for the fraternities -- for the activities to be reinstated and also for an apology, those aren't coming from groups here. That's coming from national groups. That's not what we're hearing from groups here. But the university does say they plan to respond to that at some point today, Jake.

TAPPER: You talked to some friends of Jackie. What are they saying?

GANIM: Yes, I did. I talked to a few of them today. And one of them said she actually talked to Jackie last night. She said Jackie is feeling very overwhelmed, that she did not expect this to be the reaction. And you know, generally, the friends that we've talked to have said that they do stand by her, that they do believe that something bad did happen to her, and that they're going to continue to support her, even though they do acknowledge that there do seem to be some inaccuracies in her story. They say that's now for police to hash out as part of their investigation, which is, of course, ongoing.

TAPPER: Jackie's name and some of her personal information, address, phone number, e-mail, that's now being distributed online. Is there a concern for her safety?

GANIM: Both of the friends that we talked to said that they did feel that. One of them in particular said not just concerns for her safety if she decides to return to UVA, but also for the safety of all victims when they come forward and tell their stories, if this is the kind of repercussions they're going to feel publicly.

TAPPER: Exactly, that's the big fear from all of this. Sara Ganim live in Charlottesville, thank you so much.

Regardless of how much "Rolling Stone" magazine's editors whiffed on the story, sexual assault remains a very serious problem on college campuses. UVA's president has suggested that regardless of this one individual magazine story, there is a serious problem that must be reckoned with. Greek organizations, now suspended, must make a commitment to safety before they can be reinstated. Jalen Ross is student council president at UVA and he joins me now from Charlottesville. Jalen, thanks for joining us.

What's the reaction on campus to the fact that there are so many new questions raised about the accuracy of the story? Has it divided students?

JALEN ROSS, STUDENT COUNCIL PRESIDENT, UVA: Hi, Jake. Thanks for having me. It certainly produced a wide range of reactions. We have some people -- they're relieved. It seems like maybe the problem isn't as bad as they thought. And there are also advocates that I talk to very frequently that tell me they're concerned this might hurt the momentum they have to try and solve the problem.

Our line has been that this story, the action we've taken, the things we've been talking about, it's never been about the details of one story. It's been about every story. And we're still committed to that.

TAPPER: You're in a fraternity yourself. How bad can Greek life get? I'm a former fraternity guy, too, back when I was in college. And I never had anything like what I read about in that story.

ROSS: Well, neither have I. I think the question ought to be, how good can fraternity life get? I firmly believe that if we take advantage of the organization, the structure, the hierarchy that we have in fraternities, we can make the parties that we have the safest places anybody can go to be social. So I think if we take advantage of all those things, we can make this actually fraternity world a big part of the solution to this problem.

We had chapter last night. We had a long conversation about just that, about how we as a fraternity are going to try to make the things we do safer, and I hope that -- and I know actually that a number of the other chapters around here are doing the same thing.

TAPPER: But Jalen, when you read the story to begin with, did you believe it? Did you think it was true?

ROSS: I don't have any reason not to. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of stories like this are true. Somebody doesn't have a whole lot of reason not to make it true. The first step, and I've done trainings and talked to a lot of advocates on this. The first step is to believe it. And I know it's a real problem. So again, the details of this story I think could change a lot between now and whenever we find out what happened, but I know it is a problem for a lot of people. And it's for the rest of those people that I'm committed to changing it.

TAPPER: I thought that the lawyer's statement, the lawyer who represents Phi Kappa Psi, was very, very narrowly written. Obviously that's what lawyers do. They issue very, very narrow denials so they don't say anything untrue. But I was surprised. And I wonder if you were, that there wasn't a comment like, there have not been any gang rapes at this fraternity since any of the members have been members of the fraternity. Were you surprised at how narrow this denial was?

ROSS: Well, you know, I was surprised not to see that. But I think it probably realizes that there are a lot of things happen in a house. You have a whole house in a brotherhood, it's not watching every corner carefully. Entirely possible that some bad things happen when none of the brothers are paying attention. And that's one of the things that I think we can start to fix. I've had a lot of conversations with Tommy Reid (ph), who is our inter-fraternity council president, about what we can do on the policies we have when we host parties, about having brothers that are intentionally sober, marked clearly and in position in certain spots, to make sure that even if it's not the brothers in that case that are doing something awful, they're keeping other things that might be awful from happening.

TAPPER: Jalen Ross, just a quick question, do you think something happened to this girl?

ROSS: I believe something horrible happened to Jackie. I don't know the what, I don't know the who, I don't know the when. But I believe it happened, and it's that kind of story that I'm committed to keep it from happening to anybody else at this school.

TAPPER: Jalen Ross, thank you so much. Good luck to you. Appreciate it.

ROSS: Thanks for having me, Jake.

TAPPER: A not entirely unrelated money lead today. The quickly expanding ride-sharing company Uber has been banned in New Delhi, India, following a customer reporting a rape by a driver over the weekend. He is now in police custody. Customers can use Uber's mobile app to find drivers in their area, but there have been questions about Uber's ability to conduct thorough background checks on drivers. Turns out the driver in this case had been accused of rape before. He also gave Uber incorrect background information. Uber defends its hiring practices, saying it works with local governments to clear drivers. New Delhi looked into the case and banned Uber service there, but not in response to the attack, the city said, but instead authorities insist the company illegally went beyond boundaries to offer taxi service in a certain part of town prohibited to Uber drivers.

Coming up, she went into bed thinking in hours her husband would be released by his al Qaeda captors. She woke up to the horrific news that he had been killed. So why didn't anyone tell the U.S. about the deal for this guy's release?

Plus, Will and Kate planning to spend their second night in the U.S. in Brooklyn. But will protests ruin their plans?

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. In other world news, new details on the failed mission to rescue two hostages held by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

On Friday under the cover of darkness, 40 special operations forces tried to storm a compound in a remote part of Yemen where American, Luke Somers, and South African, Pierre Korkie, were being held.

President Obama authorized the operation, we're told, after the terrorist group released this video Thursday threatening to execute Somers if their demands were not met.

CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, reports on how this raid went terribly, tragically wrong.

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LUKE SOMERS, HOSTAGE: My name is Luke Somers --

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After seeing this video of hostage, Luke Somers, late last week, the Pentagon concluded he was in imminent danger of being killed.

By Thursday, the U.S. had satellite images of the compound where he was being held. By mid-morning Friday, even as President Obama was announcing a new defense secretary --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Mr. Ash Carter.

STARR: -- the desperate rescue mission was a go. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel monitored the high-risk raid.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: No rescue mission is ever recommended to the president by any of us on the National Security Council unless there is a complete, thorough internal review of intelligence, of what we know, also what we don't know.

STARR: It was the dead of night in Yemen. V-22 aircraft raced to a remote region in Eastern Yemen about 30 commandos from SEAL Team 6 and combat medics began hiking to the compound where Somers and South African, Pierre Korkie, were being held.

Just yards from the target, dogs began barking, the SEALs were spotted. A firefight erupted with aircraft keeping watch, the SEALs battled the terrorists, but one terrorist ran back into the compound, shooting Somers and Korkie.

The U.S. did not even know Korkie was there. It was a desperate 30 minutes on the ground, the medics tried to stabilize both critically wounded men. They called for the V-22s to land as close as possible. But one hostage died on the aircraft and the other back on board a nearby Navy ship.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president does not at all regret ordering this mission to try to rescue Mr. Somers.

STARR: The president getting support from a key Republican for taking the risk.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I commend the president for acting because the intelligence showed an urgency to get in or they were going to kill this American hostage anyway.

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STARR: U.S. officials say they thought it was likely there was a second hostage at the site. But they did not know it was South African Pierre Korkie and they didn't know that his family believed he was about to be released the day following the raid -- Jake.

TAPPER: Dr. Imtiaz Sooliman is the chairman and founder of The Gift of the Givers Foundation. He had negotiated the release of Pierre Korkie from al Qaeda in Yemen before the rescue operation was attempted and he joins me now from Johannesburg, South Africa.

Dr. Sooliman, first of course, I want to extend our condolences to both the Somers and Korkie families. We know that Mrs. Korkie went to bed Friday night thinking that her husband would be on his way home. She woke up the next morning to the horrific news that he'd been killed. She had been a hostage as well. How is she doing?

DR. IMTIAZ SOOLIMAN, CHAIRMAN AND FOUNDER, GIFT OF THE GIVERS FOUNDATION: She is doing very well under the circumstances. She's a very strong woman, but she's had 11 torrid months. I've had continuous dialogue with her reassuring her at every phase. But the release last Friday was very difficult.

For three hours that Friday night, I was talking about the apprehension, will he make it? Will he come out? How ill will he be -- all those kinds of issues? Saturday morning, we spent another hour between 5:00 and 6:00 a.m. and finally I got her to settle down to be positive and hopeful.

She is a very strong woman, very spiritual, very strong Christian, strong faith. She said, every time, trust the Lord. Trust the Lord. But my last comment to her at 5:59 a.m. was the waiting is almost over. I feel so terrible using those words now.

Because two hours later she got the call that Pierre is no more. In spite of that, she has been consoling us saying she's devastated but we, too, must be devastated. She said she felt very sorry for my officer manager who did all the negotiations in Yemen.

And for the tribal leaders, who put their lives out, I feel sorry for them and I thank them. She told me again today. She's worried about the states of others in other parts of the world.

TAPPER: That's incredible. Obviously the faults of the murders lie with AQAP. But are folks in South Africa upset at all with the U.S. government in any way for what happened?

SOOLIMAN: Yes, they are. There's a lot of anger against the U.S. government and there's a lot of understanding on the other side, too. So there's mixed comments and mixed thoughts on the process.

TAPPER: There's a big debate in the United States and I guess around the world that ransom should not be paid to hostages, since all it does is encourage more hostage-taking. What do you make of that argument?

SOOLIMAN: That's true in a sense of what it's saying, if people are paid ransom money, obviously they'll keep taking hostages. True. But on the other side, there's a human element. I'll make this example.

If my wife was captured by any terrorist organization and the government says you don't pay ransom money or negotiate, do I turn and walk away, leave my wife to die in captivity or be beheaded or whatever?

Or do I do everything possible to negotiate, to find some money, to pray to get my wife out? How do you reconcile a government position and the position of a human being, human to human?

TAPPER: Dr. Imtiaz Sooliman, thank you so much for talking to us.

Coming up, big plans tonight for Prince William and Kate as they make their visit here to the United States, but their scheduled stop in just a few hours could cause a royal shutdown and royal headache in New York City.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. The Pop Culture Lead, from the Bronx to the Battery, New Yorkers will be eating their giant pizza slices with pinkies held high this week because the royal couple, Prince William and Kate, has arrived in the big apple.

The three-day trip is their first to New York City. In just a few hours, they'll attend tonight's match-up between the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Brooklyn Nets. There they will rub shoulders perhaps with American royalty like Queen B, also known as Beyonce, or perhaps the king himself, referring of course to Lebron James.

Of course, nothing says welcome to America like protests. CNN London correspondent, Max Foster is live in New York. Welcome, Max. We are hearing protesters could swarm tonight's Nets games and they have been tweeting with the hashtag #royalshutdown. Very exciting. MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: There will be some people turning out. But the palace is determined just to carry on with the schedule. They know this isn't a protest against royalty but against the system and trying to cause chaos in the city.

We'll see what happens. But inside, we are expecting to meet some members of New York showbiz community. There are no planned meetings, but they are sitting courtside. There will be other celebs sitting courtside.

TAPPER: Perhaps Spike Lee, Woody Allen. Prince William met somebody earlier today, did a little multitasking of tourism, sneaking in a visit with President Obama in the oval office. Tell us about that.

FOSTER: Yes, 20 minutes, which is pretty impressive for a second in line to the throne, but the president said he wanted to repay the hospitality he received at Buckingham Palace. We have some snippets -- we picked up some information about what they talked about.

They talked about the baby next year. We now know that Kate and William do not know the sex of their baby because I think the president asked them about that. And he also talked about when Prince George was born. He was so excited he didn't even ask the sex of the baby.

You would wonder about that, wouldn't you? Some chat there. But there was a serious message in Washington today which was Prince William's real passion, which is about fighting the illegal trade in wildlife products like ivory.

And a very impassioned speech today and he's currently back in New York right now meeting Secretary Clinton. She has a shared passion on that. They're going to make some comments on that. They're working very closely on this. So there is some momentum behind this anti- poaching process that he's really trying to spearhead.

TAPPER: Max, thank you so much. Take in the sights while you're here, my friend. Make sure to follow me on Twitter @jaketapper. Check out our show page at CNN.com/thelead for video or some blogs, other stuff. You can also subscribe to our magazine on "Flipboard" if you want.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to one Mr. Wolf Blitzer who is right next door to me in a place we like to call "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf.