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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Issues Sanctions Against North Korea; Search Continues for AirAsia Crash Victims; New Sanctions on N. Korea Over Hack; Former NY Gov. Mario Cuomo Dead at 82

Aired January 02, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Some of them would have been, should have been flying back to Indonesia today, instead, bodies pulled from the water.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead, 30 passengers and/or crew have now been recovered from the Java Sea. Four victims of the AirAsia plane crash have been given names. But as investigators find more debris and more victims, how close are they to finding out what took down that flight?

The national lead: Some experts say they're not quite sure who almost shut down Sony's stoner-produced satire. But the White House is certain that it is Kim Jong-un. Hours ago, President Obama swinging back, going after North Korea's digital terrorists. We will tell you how.

And the pop culture lead. Welcome to the future. Reality has finally caught up with Marty McFly. 2015 is the year he shot to in "Back to the Future" and the sequel. So, if this is the future, where is my hoverboard?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin today with our world lead. Recovery teams scouring the most probable area where AirAsia Flight 8501 went down and some new discoveries ending what little hope some families had left, replaced now by pain and by grief.

Today, the team of rescue workers, divers, pilots, sailors from across the globe all working together, they found some 20 additional bodies, passengers and crew from the fated jet that crashed into the Java Sea all but certainly early last Sunday morning.

Today, the USS Sampson, the American Navy ship aiding in the search, recovered two of the bodies, according to the Pacific Fleet Command. Bad weather continues to slow the mission, again forcing divers to end their underwater sweeps early.

Still, the day's somber returns, it runs the total number of victims reclaimed from the city to 30. So far, Indonesian authorities say they have only been able to identify four of the passengers. The fact that there are 132 more people left to find and 158 to identify, that's a little unnerving. Aviation and safety experts say the majority of the missing are likely

all together still strapped into the plane's main cabin. Wednesday, an Indonesian search official told CNN he thought sonar equipment detected something that looked like the main fuselage at the bottom of the sea. But now search-and-rescue officials are backing off that statement.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has the latest details on the hunt for this flight.

Suzanne, while investigators say they don't know where this one big chunk of the plane is, apparently they did something from the main cabin?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They did find something, what appears to be a panel within the plane in an attached window.

Beyond that, there is really not that much. It is now 4:00 in the morning there as daybreak comes. They will start searching again for bodies and debris. It's really a race against time now because searchers are desperately in need of a break in this bad weather.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Day six of the search for AirAsia 8501 and only 30 bodies have been recovered of the 162 people on board, and from the plane, just a few pieces of debris. Today, Indonesian officials recovered this one resembling a window panel. The biggest obstacle, searchers say, is the treacherous weather.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The main obstacle was the height of the waves and the strong current. It was enough to stop us from continuing the search.

MALVEAUX: High winds threaten helicopters above and 13-foot waves batter ships and divers below, making this search painstakingly difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The frequency of the waves is the big thing. They're just so tight together, that it's just too hard for boats to launch and recover equipment. The torrential rains that are happening every day, the divers are facing potentially zero visibility with all the dirty water.

MALVEAUX: The international search effort is in the shallow waters of the Java Sea, an area 2,000 square miles, or roughly the size of Delaware.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Sunday will be the best day of the search. And this -- that may be the day that they actually can find something, because waves will be about two to three feet.

MALVEAUX: But another two days adds to the agony for families who have been waiting for answers since Sunday. Only four bodies have been identified. For those families, they can at least begin to say goodbye, like the parents of Khairunisa Haidar Fauzi, the 22-year-old flight attendant who posted on Instagram two weeks ago a love message to her boyfriend.

HAIDAR FAUZI, FATHER OF VICTIM (through translator): She knew the risks, but she loved this. It was her dream. She loved traveling.

ROHANA FAUZI, MOTHER OF VICTIM (through translator): Goodbye. Goodbye, Nisa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: They are heartbreaking goodbyes.

And you heard Chad say that the weather is going to be getting better on Sunday. Well, the analysts that I talked to said you just need two weeks of clear weather and you could probably find the main portion of the plane, as well as many of the victims of that flight. Two weeks is the window that they need.

TAPPER: So sad.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.

Families of the missing remain huddled in Surabaya, Indonesia, day after day waiting for the grim news. It's been a particularly difficult test of faith for a small group of worshipers from the Mawar Sharon Church. It's a group that has only 45,000 congregants around Indonesia.

A local pastor says 46 members of the church were on board the plane.

CNN's David Molko is live in Surabaya, Indonesia, outside the makeshift crisis center there, the unofficial hub for the search.

David, patience with the search, with the airline wearing thin for some of these families. What are they saying?

DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jake, from here in Surabaya.

We're about an hour from first light, from sunrise, the morning call to prayer just sounding across the entire city behind me a few minutes ago and certainly hopes and prayers from the 162 families of the passengers and crew on board Flight 8501.

There is a sense of frustration. The frustration is not necessarily with the AirAsia officials or with the search teams, but how long it's taking for the remains to come in. Now, 30 bodies recovered, as Suzanne mentioned, only four identified at this point. The mayor of Surabaya, 78 people were from her city here, the city of three million people in Eastern Java.

The mayor says she's frustrated, too, but she trusts the search teams out there to be able to do the best job they can, despite the weather conditions, and get everybody back as soon as possible -- Jake.

TAPPER: David, we learned hours ago that Russia has pledged to send a team to help in the search. What will they be doing to help the effort?

MOLKO: Yes, Jake, this just coming in to us from Russian state media that Russia is sending two planes. They're actually on the ground in Jakarta, along with a couple dozen divers. That's going to obviously add manpower to get more teams into the water in part to recover anything that is spotted from the air or ships and in part to take a closer look at the ocean floor.

Depths, it's pretty shallow out there, we're told, in the 100- to 150- foot range. But it's pretty murky and when you have choppy seas on top, that doesn't make it an easy job at all. Generally, weather conditions expected to get better after a couple of days. But I have to tell you, Jake, it's rainy season here in Indonesia.

This is the tropics. It's quite common that you get cloud cover, afternoon thunderstorms. We will wait and see what happens in the days ahead. At this point, Jake, 158 families still waiting for answers.

TAPPER: David Molko, live in Surabaya, Indonesia, thank you so much.

I want to go to CNN's Tom Foreman. He's over at the magic wall to help explain where exactly the search area is shifting to and why the weather continues to really hold up the search effort -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Jake, if you look at this, this isn't a bad location here. This is only about 100 miles from the nearest major city out here to this location. And this is where, of course, they have found this debris that has been paying a lot of attention. It's not bad. We have talked about this area being about the size of Rhode Island.

What that means is that let's say it's an area that is about 45 miles on each side. That's how you get your 2,000 square miles, so around this area. So, it's not an unsearchable area. But as long as this weather persists, it is a serious problem, because look at this. This is the depth out there.

It's about 100 feet in the area that they're most looking at right now. Not bad. But as long as you have heavy chop up here, you know from just being to the beach what it does is create just a cloud of sand and dust and particles down here. That's hard for anyone like this, a diver down here, because he can't see anything.

Hard for planes to spot from above and, as one of your guests on earlier, it's hard for vehicles like this because they have to be hooked to these things, guiding these things. Very hard to do if the ocean up here is going up and down and up and down and up and down.

There may be help when they bring in devices like this, like the P-8 Poseidon. These are aircraft that are designed to do a lot more than just look. They can look in an electronic way below the water. But even then, they can only cover so much ground at a time.

So, really, Jake, the secret is in the weather at the moment. They do have to have not just a clear day, but at least several clear days to let all of that get operating well. Then they have to have a little bit of luck. They still have some time, still have some time if you look at the black box. there's still plenty of time left here until it's going to be gone, about 24 days left on the batteries.

But you know they have to be watching that as they fight the elements and the water and all that uncertainty out there, Jake.

TAPPER: Tom Foreman, thank you so much.

In addition to the urgent task of recovering the passengers who are still missing, investigators are, of course, racing to find the flight's black boxes, as Tom just referenced.

Officials need these recorders to determine what exactly happened to AirAsia 8501 and to try to prevent it from happening again.

To get their insights on the next steps, let's bring in CNN safety analyst David Soucie and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend.

Gentlemen, thanks for being here.

Les, let me start with you.

It seems the prevalent theory is the plane stalled in midair. I know we don't have a definitive answer as to what happened, but that's what a lot of experts think is most likely. What does that mean, stalling, and how common is it?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's very uncommon, especially in a jet airliner.

But stalling basically means that the wing no longer is developing the lift that it should to keep the airplane airborne. This is something we do train for in the simulator in relation to recovering from unusual attitudes.

We know this is a serious situation. In reference to the climb that was purportedly indicated by air traffic control, a 20,000-hour captain is going to know that this is -- he's reaching a point of the surface ceiling of the airplane where it's max-certified that this potential is there if he subjects the airplane to unusual-type situations.

So I'm leaning toward the fact that something mechanical, erroneous indications in the cockpit displays got to the point if indeed this stall occurred.

TAPPER: Because the captain had a lot of experience, as you say.

David, can we rule out definitely any theories about how this plane went down? What do you think is most likely to have caused the crash?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I think with reference to your first question, I think the only thing that we could potentially rule out is that it was a successful ditching or that it even came close to being a successful ditching because we have clear evidence the aircraft broke up.

The second thing is, did it break up in the air or did it break up on the ground? We will know more about that as we find more evidence and as the evidence is being released to us to analyze.

But as far as ruling anything out, that's the only thing I can see ruling out. What I think caused this is just too early to tell at this point.

TAPPER: Les, this particular plane is an Airbus A-320. Tell me about the mechanics of a plane like this. Is there anything about an A-320 that makes it more susceptible, more risky to fly?

ABEND: No, not at all. This is a very reliable airplane.

And it does have a system like most -- even any type of commercial airline -- or airliner -- has a system that prevents a stall from occurring even if a pilot is to let that happen. It's just the degree on how that system takes over for the pilot. And the Airbus has a pretty serious system where it will take over and actually bring the nose down so that the stall situation is reduced to prevent it from even happening.

So if they got erroneous indications that this was occurring from their instruments, then that system might have taken over at the wrong time. That's a possibility. But, listen, like Dave Soucie says, anything is certainly possible.

TAPPER: David, we have had a lot of bodies discovered in the last day or so, now a window pane. Sonar is maybe picking up where the tail is. That's unconfirmed as of yet.

Do you think investigators are close to finding out where the main cabin is, where the main body of the plane is?

SOUCIE: It would appear that way, especially if the sonar is accurate. But, again, they say the sonar is picking this and that up. And then the CEO comes back and says, no, we have no evidence of that.

So I'm hesitant to jump on with both feet on anything at this point, because like MH370, the data is sparse. And when it does come out, it's contradicted. So I'm waiting to hear that. But I do think at this point they're much, much closer than we ever dreamed of being with MH370. And from this phase forward, what they have to do is identify and find that main wreckage, especially the tail, and then start retrieving those boxes.

They have a lot of work to do, particularly in the conditions that Tom had outlined earlier. And he's right. One day of clear is not going to help them a whole lot. There needs to be three or four days of clear and they may not get that for quite some time.

TAPPER: Hoping for good weather. Les Abend, David Soucie, thank you both so much. Appreciate it.

In national news, just hours ago, the U.S. now issuing new sanctions against North Korea. The punishment just announced may just settle any question of who's responsible for the cyber-attack, at least as far as President Obama is concerned. Could this be the proportional response the president called for after the Sony hack? That's next.

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TAPPER: Could this be the proportional response the president called for after the Sony hack? That's next.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Our national lead today: the U.S. government firing back against North Korea just hours ago. The White House announced President Obama has authorized additional sanctions in response to the North Korean regime's, quote, "ongoing, provocative, destabilizing and repressive actions and policies, particularly its destructive and coercive cyber attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment," unquote.

I want to go to CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He's traveling with President Obama in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Jim, what do we know about these sanctions and who the U.S. is targeting in North Korea?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, Jake, the U.S., as you know, already has sanctions in place against North Korea. North Korea sort of sanctioned to the hilt, but these sanctions are on top of what's already in place. They specifically go after what the White House calls any and all officials of the North Korean government.

And they specifically lay out individuals and groups that are being targeted in these sanctions, specifically talked about in these sanctions, the RGB, North Korea's intelligence organization, that is believed to be behind their cyber operations. Also, a company known as KOMID, which is North Korea's primary arms dealer, and then another company that is tied to North Korea's defense research and development.

So, clearly, they're not only going after the cyber operations of the North Korean government but some of these firms that finance all of that.

In addition to that, Jake, we should point out that the White House and administration officials on this conference call earlier this afternoon really said this was just the beginning of what they're going to be doing and going after North Korea after that cyber attack on Sony. And that was interesting because, Jake, as you know, in the days after the president's comments on all this before he left for Hawaii, there was that vast internet outage in North Korea and there was speculation the United States was behind that. One senior administration official said perhaps the North Koreans were behind that Internet outage and they seemed to say the U.S. was not behind that attack but yet, they were sort of cagey about that, Jake. TAPPER: Jim Acosta, traveling with the president and trying to

decipher what is being said by administration official on this. Thank you so much.

The White House and U.S. intelligence officials are standing by their assertion that North Korea was behind the cyber attack against Sony, despite evidence presented by outside American experts this week that calls that into question and in some cases suggests that a former employee of the studio may have been at least partly responsible.

So, what makes the FBI so sure that North Korea was responsible?

CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown has been talking to her sources. She joins me live to discuss that part of the story.

Pam, will we hear more from the FBI about the evidence it has to back up this assertion that it was definitively North Korea?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's possible, Jake, but it's unlikely that the FBI will be revealing any big revelations behind this case anytime soon. The reason is because a lot of the evidence they have, the more incriminating evidence that we don't know about is classified.

So, it's highly unlikely that a lot of this evidence would be declassified and presented to the public. But we do know, Jake, that James Comey, the director of the FBI, will be at Fordham University next week at a cyber security forum and we do expect him to at least touch on this. Whether or not he's going to reveal any new evidence is unlikely.

TAPPER: But it would seem to suggest the actions by the president today, additional sanctions, more targeted sanctions against individuals in North Korea, would seem to suggest that they're just dismissing the skepticism voiced by other cyber security experts, some of them on our show, many talking to other media, that North Korea is unquestionably behind this. They're saying, no, no, we're 100 percent sure.

BROWN: Absolutely. They said they sent out a press release earlier this week. The NSA saying, we back up the FBI, and this action taken today is really a vote of confidence, undermining what they previously said.

The FBI has been adamant ever since these naysayers have come out and the cyber security firm you talked about, Norse, presenting evidence to the FBI, they believe it was an insider job. FBI officials really adamant, reiterating the point that they, look, this is the conclusion we reached, it was a joint effort, not just with us but with foreign partners, with the private sector, with other agencies and these cyber security firms making these assumptions and reaching these conclusions does not -- they're not privy to the same mountain of evidence that we are, that's sort of what they're saying.

Look, they don't have the inside look at what really happened here.

TAPPER: Are any of the people who were sanctioned today directly tied to the hack? Do we even know who the individuals are behind the hack?

BROWN: The law enforcement sources we've been speaking with say they're still investigating that, Jake. They're still trying to figure out who the individuals are, who the players are. I think that's a big reason why we haven't seen any criminal charges.

So, remember, these sanctions -- they're not criminal charges so the people listed, the companies and the individuals, I'm told are not directly tied to the hack. They might have been indirectly tied to it. But I think the U.S. is trying to get to what they can get to in this case.

TAPPER: Interesting. Pamela, thank you so much. Appreciate it as always.

Forget resolutions for this New Year. Potentially presidential candidates are checking off their lists ahead of 2016. The work to be done if they want even a chance at a successful campaign next year.

Plus, the movie predicted you would be driving a flying car and riding a hover board by this year, just how close are we to any of that futuristic stuff?

That's next on THE LEAD.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

In our politics lead today, the death of a political giant. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, passed away from heart failure Thursday evening at the age of 82. The son of Italian immigrants, Cuomo rose to the state's highest office, serving three terms in Albany from 1983 to 1994. He first drew national attention at the 1984 Democratic Convention when his keynote address underscoring the tenants of liberal politics during the Reagan era brought the capacity crowd in San Francisco to its feet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THEN-GOV. MARIO CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: We must get the American public to look past the glitter, beyond the showmanship to the reality, the hard substance of things, and we'll do it not so much with speeches that sound good as with speeches that are good and sound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The Democratic ticket got stomp that had year. But the speech catapulted Cuomo into a presidential contender. He flirted with a White House run in 1988 and again in 1992. And then, he suggested he'd be interested in a possible Supreme Court nomination after that. But in the end, in all these instances, Cuomo always demurred.

Just hours before his death, Cuomo's son Andrew was sworn in for his second term as governor and he paid tribute to his father's legacy. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: He couldn't be here physically today, my father. But my father is in this room. He's in the heart and mind of every person who is here. He's here and he's here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Mario Cuomo died just a few hours after that. He is survived by his wife and his five children, including our friend, colleague and the anchor of CNN's "NEW DAY," Chris Cuomo, who named his son after his dad.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the Cuomo family on this very difficult day.

In other politics news, it's New Year's, so it's time for resolutions. Eat right. Go to the gym. Quit smoking.