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The Lead with Jake Tapper

ISIS Terror; Stabbing Attack in France; Interview with Congressman Mac Thornberry; 2 Soldiers Attacked Outside Jewish Center

Aired February 03, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: It's a barbaric new low for even ISIS, burning a caged hostage alive.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead, a video so vile, once you have seen it, you cannot unsee it. The Jordanian pilot held hostage by ISIS, Muath al- Kaseasbeh, locked in a cage and burned alive. And now Jordan's king is cutting short his visit in D.C. to return home as his nation vows revenge.

Meanwhile, in France, a suspected terrorist stabs soldiers who were guarding a Jewish community center. And he could be family of one of the terrorists from the Paris attacks.

Plus, our national lead, is ISIS turning the Internet into a digital battleground for the hearts and minds of American kids? The FBI's head of counterterrorism in an exclusive interview with CNN tells us how the terrorists target teens.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to begin today with breaking news in our world lead. Hours ago, ISIS released a very difficult-to-watch video showing the murder of a Jordanian fighter pilot. The Jordanian government says the video is real. It is, very oddly, slickly produced. It has different scenes, and animations, terrorists towering in ski masks.

It plays like the warped opening of some sort of Hollywood war epic. And somehow its ending, the snuff film, if you can believe it, it's even more brutal and barbaric than the group's previous tapes, the images so horrifying, CNN has made the decision not to show any of them.

The video Muath al-Kaseasbeh in a cage, having been beaten. You can see he has a black eye. He stands, head bowed, orange jumpsuit soaked through with something flammable. And then a terrorist sparks a trail of fluid and Kaseasbeh is consumed by flames, at one point clutching his head, falling to his knees. The camera, of course, sickeningly, just lingers there.

Jordan's King Abdullah just addressed his people and said his country will not be intimidated by the terrorists. The Jordanian government also says they suspect the pilot was actually killed a month ago, well before ISIS tried to use the pilot as a bargaining chip. I want to get right to CNN chief security national correspondent Jim

Sciutto.

Jim, what can you tell us?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You have seen the video. I have seen the video. It's sickening in its violence, but it's also very calculating in its imagery.

It at one point shows victims of what it says was a coalition bombing run buried in the rubble, and after that horrible moment when he is burned alive, they then bury him in the rubble, always conscious of the message and how they get that message out.

I'm told by a U.S. official that the U.S. was aware of unverified, uncorroborated information that the pilot was dead before the release of this video today, but the confirmation only coming today.

And now in Jordan, an angry response, protests in the streets tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): In Jordan tonight, mourning and anger, hundreds gathering in Amman and the hometown of Lieutenant Muath al-Kaseasbeh demanding revenge.

ISIS released gruesome images of the pilot's death that CNN has decided not to air. They show him burned alive, confined to a cage, raising ISIS' already brutal terror tactics to a new and shocking level.

Jordan announced that the killing likely took place a full month ago and vowed what a spokesman called -- quote -- "an earthshaking retaliation."

MOHAMMED AL-MOMANI, JORDANIAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN (through translator): His blood will not be shed in vain. For those who assassinated Muath, their punishment would be a revenge that equals the tragedy that has befallen the Jordanians.

SCIUTTO: The horrific news his coincided with a visit by Jordan's King Abdullah to Washington. He quickly cut short his trip to return home.

President Obama and other U.S. officials expressed solidarity with a close ally in the U.S.-led military coalition against ISIS.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization. And it I think will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated.

SCIUTTO: The pilot was captured in late December by the terror group when his F-16 jet went down over Syria. Kaseasbeh's fate became entangled in the failed effort to the free the Japanese hostage Kenji Goto, who ISIS executed just on Saturday.

ISIS claimed it would release Goto if Jordan freed a female jihadist imprisoned for her role in a 2005 suicide bombing. If the demands were not met, ISIS threatened to kill both Goto and Lieutenant Kaseasbeh.

Throughout, Jordan repeatedly demanded proof of life for the pilot, which never came. Now it turns out that Lieutenant Kaseasbeh may have been dead long before any negotiation began.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: If the pilot was killed weeks ago or shortly after his apprehension, then it means that all of this by ISIL in the last few weeks has been a charade designed to con Jordan into giving up this terrorist, al-Rishawi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: The ISIS video ends with another threat to other Jordanian pilots taking part in the coalition campaign, offers a reward to ISIS supporters for their assassination.

And, Jake, you look at this video. It has names and pictures of what it says are ISIS pilots or, rather, Jordanian pilots, singling them out for killing. It calls them crusaders. That is very worrisome information to have out there for their families and for those pilots in Jordan.

TAPPER: And you can see why Western officials are so afraid, not of ISIS as a group, but of their skills in propaganda in social media. It's really like something -- we have never seen anything like it.

SCIUTTO: No question. No question.

The other thing to keep in mind American pilots are flying over Jordan.

TAPPER: That's right. All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Let's go right to Amman, Jordan.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is there.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Jordan's government obviously calling the pilot a hero, calling him a martyr. A spokesman saying anyone doubting Jordan's resolve and determination will have their proof.

What do you think that is going to mean?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, there has been a lot of questions over whether Jordan will continue to take part in that international coalition against ISIS and whether it will continue to take part in these airstrikes.

And the message so far from Jordan over the past week since this hostage crisis really evolved, they have said that they will continue. It is a moral responsibility, they see, to fight extremism in this region. What we're hearing tonight from the Jordanian military, Jake, is that they are saying that they will retaliate, that there will be revenge that they will take and they described it as revenge that will be in the same level as the Jordanian tragedy.

So much anger and so much disgust in this nation tonight. This is a country that is mourning right now a man they considered a national hero, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Jomana, we saw images of people in Kaseasbeh's hometown, Karak, Jordan, where his picture was hanging outside city hall. They obviously took this news extremely hard.

Have we heard anything from his family yet?

KARADSHEH: We have not heard from his family yet. They have been very quiet this evening. Our team was over at this area where the family had been gathering in Amman over the past 10 days.

And his immediate family has headed back to their hometown to prepare for the funeral, for the wake that the family would hold there. This is tradition here in Jordan. But we have seen, Jake, numbers of people, hundreds taking to the streets in solidarity in different parts of Amman and calling for revenge.

They want to see their government strike with an iron fist.

TAPPER: All right. Jomana Karadsheh in Amman, Jordan, thank you so much.

And this just into CNN moments ago. Moments ago, Jordan's King Abdullah, who was set to meet with President Obama today -- he is set to meet with President Obama today -- that according to an embassy so much.

I want to go right to CNN's Fareed Zakaria to discuss this and others issues.

Fareed Zakaria, the video of the murder of Kaseasbeh, Lieutenant Kaseasbeh, it is like nothing I have ever seen before. And it really shows the twisted and warped, but also frankly skillful propaganda and social media skills of the group which has confounded the West. How does the West combat this in the information wars?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think the best way is to respond in a like fashion, because while it looks very slick, it's tactically very slick, it's a huge mistake.

What ISIL is doing or the Islamic State is doing is they are revealing that they don't have ideological appeal. They are not getting people interested through their ideas and ideology and religious beliefs. It's through fear and intimidation.

This has nothing to do with Islam. As you have pointed out, Jake, the burning of a body, dead or alive, is very un-Islamic. And it shows that ISIL is a band of thugs who are trying to intimidate their way in -- they can't win elections. They can't get people out in solidarity. They want to scare, terrorize and intimidate them.

There's also something bizarre that happened here which may suggest an operation gone awry. Remember, they started out with the Japanese hostages and they wanted money in return. The Japanese refused to play ball. They didn't get the money, so then they started asking for this woman, Sajida al-Rishawi, this Jordanian suicide bomber, failed suicide bomber.

This is a 9-year-old plot from 2005, before ISIS, the Islamic State, even existed. Nobody quite knows why they brought this up. Then the Jordanian pilot gets involved. And, as you say, perhaps this guy had already been killed while they were bargaining.

So, the whole thing -- when the history of this is written, this may not look like such a brilliant move. This may be a botched operation saved with some very fancy video.

TAPPER: And there are people in the Obama administration who feel that this act, what ISIS did today, revealing this video, will actually stiffen Jordan's resolve and further alienate Muslims. You already noted how it's un-Islamic to burn a body, especially of a Muslim, especially alive.

Do you agree? And, ultimately, does that matter?

ZAKARIA: It does matter, because the Islamic State, to the extent it has any ideological appeal, it is that they are pure, that they want to set up a caliphate, that they are against the corruptions that have encrusted Islam.

Well, this lays bare the reality. That's all a lie. They are really a band of thugs. And it's important that Arab leaders point this out, Jake. This is one of the things that they don't take on, they don't challenge head on the idea that ISIL is in any sense Islamic.

The king of Jordan said it today. It's very important he continue to repeat that theme. Remember, by tradition, the king of Jordan is said to be a descendent of the Prophet Mohammed. If he were to use that historical authority and essentially signal, look, as somebody who represents the tradition of Islam and the traditions of the prophet personally, I condemn this, I say this is not Islamic, please notice, Muslim world, my fellow Arabs, that this is not Islamic, it will have resonance.

But these guys so far have not been willing to really take on that struggle. The Jordanians are the best at all this. But where do you hear from the Saudi Arabians on something like this? When does one hear from the hear of Al-Azhar in Egypt? Every time one of these things happen, it should be pointed out this is profoundly un-Islamic.

TAPPER: All right, Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

When all this news broke just hours ago, Jordan's King Abdullah was here in Washington, D.C., to meet with President Obama. Did ISIS hold the video to time the release with his visit to the U.S.? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with breaking news in our world lead, the gruesome, abominable news of a Jordanian pilot burned alive. Muath al-Kaseasbeh was inside a cage, his death at the hands of ISIS, recorded on video, the images that are too horrific for us to show. The pilot's home country of Jordan confirming the news.

Let's bring in the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Mac Thornberry.

Congressman Thornberry, thanks for joining us.

In just a few minutes, I believe you have a meeting scheduled with Jordan's King Abdullah. He's now here in D.C. What do you hope to get out of that conversation?

REP. THORNBERRY MAC THORNBERRY (R), TEXAS: Well, first, of course, we will extend our condolences with the king and discuss further what the United States can do to help. Jordanians have made requests of us for various weapons and equipment that they need to deal with this threat and I think the events of today point out to all of us just how urgent that demand is. They're on the frontlines.

TAPPER: So, Jordan has wanted to get more involved in the battle and the U.S. has not been providing them with the weaponry or has Jordan not been as eager to get involved? Where are we on this?

THORNBERRY: Yes. I think Jordan is very eager to be involved. They obviously cannot do it all themselves. They have made some specific requests of the United States for various weapons and equipment and that was really going to be the subject of our meeting with the king as well as how we fight this ideological battle.

And I think those people who say that this was botched and it's really going to turn people off are missing who the true target is. It's not us. It is the people who could potentially be recruited to join these ranks. And so, that's part of the reason they feel this need to continue to escalate the brutality of what they do.

TAPPER: The Obama administration is certainly not telling Jordan what to do but administration officials should not now execute prisoners like that that female suicide bomber. The argument is basically that Jordan right now has the moral high ground and this act by ISIS reinforces the legitimacy of the fight against ISIS.

Do you have an opinion on whether or not Jordan should execute this female suicide bomber or any other ISIS prisoners?

THORNBERRY: I'll tell you what -- I believe that the king is absolutely committed to doing everything he can to push back against this enemy and against this ideology. I think he will weigh the pros and cons with Jordanian law about what decisions to make with her.

But I hope the United States will play a more active role not only with Jordan, but with other interested countries to again push back not only against the specific physical acts but against the ideology that is growing larger and larger around the world.

TAPPER: Congressman, what do you want the United States to do? What more should the United States be doing to fight Islamic extremism?

THORNBERRY: Yes. Well, you just heard some of it in the previous interview. Now, the king and, previously, the president of Egypt have spoke out against this as not being consistent with the Muslim religion. I think the United States can do a lot more to push other clerics of the Muslim faith as well as national leaders to battle this ideological and to see that we have a more sophisticated social media presence in fighting it, because, obviously, these guys rely a lot upon social media to advance their cause. We are not really doing so much on our side.

So, we can't do this alone. We can't even be at the front of the battle but the United States has a key facilitating role in battling this ideology and we really haven't been doing that.

TAPPER: And, obviously, we're very concerned about the other ISIS hostages, especially of course for the American woman being held hostage by ISIS.

What do you think today's action might mean for her?

THORNBERRY: Well, there is obviously no way to know. They will use any hostage they have in a way that they see advances their agenda. And again, I think we make a mistake if we see these acts through Western eyes and Western values and assume that everybody's going to be revolted and turn away from it.

We're not the target audience. They will use them for their purposes and that's part of the reason we really must fight these people physically and ideologically.

TAPPER: Congressman Mac Thornberry, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir.

THORNBERRY: You're welcome.

TAPPER: Coming up: two soldiers stabbed on the street in France as they guarded a Jewish community center. Now, officials are saying that the attacker has the same last name as the terrorist who killed the Jewish man in a kosher super market just a few weeks ago in Paris.

Plus, brand new pictures of that terrorist Amedy Coulibaly with his girlfriend, posing in a bikini on the beach.

All that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

In other world news, terror strikes the streets of France yet again. Two soldiers wounded in a knife attack in the southern city of Nice while on patrol near a Jewish community center today. The suspect identified as Moussa Coulibaly, has the same last name as Amedy Coulibaly, the terrorist who murdered people in a kosher supermarket attack last month.

CNN senior international correspondent Jim Bittermann is in Paris, France, with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, the three soldiers were on patrol in Nice this afternoon when a man came at them with a butcher knife. He was able to cut one of the soldiers on the cheek and neck and in the process of subduing this aggressor, another soldier was slightly wounded. Both soldiers are in good condition this evening.

The man who was subdued was named Moussa Coulibaly, which is significant because the terrorist who was shot and killed in the kosher super market here in Paris was also named Coulibaly, Amedy Coulibaly. And authorities are trying to figure out if there is any connection between the two.

However, it should be said that this guy, who's involved this afternoon, Moussa Coulibaly, was, in fact, on the radar of police because he had taken a one-way trip to Turkey last month, the 29th of January. And police here, intelligence officials alerted the Turkish authorities. They turned Coulibaly away at the airport in Turkey and sent him back to France. He was questioned by authorities on the 29th and 30th of January.

So, they knew he was out there but they had nothing to hold him on, basically. It was just a traveler taking a trip to Turkey. So, they released him and today he committed that act -- Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Jim Bittermann, thank you so much.

Just in to CNN, new images of the Paris grocery store attacker Amedy Coulibaly, with his girlfriend Hayat Boumeddiene. These photos show two very different sides of the most wanted woman in the world.

In one picture, Boumeddiene is seen in a bikini, frolicking really with her future husband on the beach. But a later photo shows here wearing a traditional Muslim head scarf in a mask in Malaysia. That's during a time when investigators say she had already begun her transformation to radical Islam.

CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns joins us live with the latest.

How -- do we have any idea, Joe, of how Boumeddiene became so radicalized?

JOHNS: Well, you know, she has been called -- in fact, I think you have reported that she has been called the more radical of the two and we knew from court papers she and her common law husband were exposed to a militant recruiter, as well as the Kouachi brothers. But there is a bit more information now, first reported in "The Washington Post", that a book was found in Hayat Boumeddiene's personal affects, a book by the radical female author Malika El Aroud, who's made clear her interest in waging war on the West.

But the persistent question has always been, whether Boumeddiene radicalized her common law husband or vice versa. The most reliable information is that they were both radicalized in contacts with the terrorist with Djamel Beghal.

TAPPER: When we last reported on Boumeddiene, French and U.S. intelligence said they thought she had fled to Syria through Turkey. Is there any new information on what role she may have played in the Paris attacks, if any?

JOHNS: The million dollar question: she has been referred to as a probable accomplice, though, she left the country before the attacks begun. She did have extensive communications, apparently hundreds of telephone calls, between her phone and the wife one of the Kouachi brothers. So, there is an inference of extensive dialogues between these individuals who carried out the attacks. Still, not clear at all about the level of coordination.

TAPPER: And speaking of coordination, obviously, the dragnet against would-be jihadists in Europe continues. There were eight arrests I believe in France today of these suspected terror cells. Any word on whether any of them were connected to the attacks on "Charlie Hebdo" or the kosher super market?

JOHNS: I think you can call this a very wide dragnet. France's interior ministry has said the arrests were not linked to "Charlie Hebdo". The individuals taken into custody are suspected of recruiting fighters to help Islamic militants.

TAPPER: All right. Joe Johns, excellent reporting. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.