Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

ISIS Claims Jordan Airstrike Killed U.S. Hostage; Brian Williams Controversy

Aired February 06, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS making a shocking claim about an American hostage Kayla Mueller, age 26.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

Breaking news in our world lead. Was an American woman accidentally killed in the fight against ISIS by our ally, or is this more terrorist propaganda? Authorities scrambling for evidence as Mueller's family prays that she's still alive.

Also in world news, the data from the TransAsia black boxes is now in, critical new information about why Flight 235 crashed in Taiwan.

And in national news, the plot thickens in the Brian Williams controversy. Three members of that 2003 military convoy are now challenging one pilot's account that you heard here on THE LEAD yesterday. The account seemed to corroborate some of the anchor's war stories, no longer, one supposes, this as Tom Brokaw weighs in with a very curious comment.

Good afternoon. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin with the world lead today. Today, the terrorist group ISIS claims that its American hostage, 26-year-old aid worker Kayla Mueller, was killed during an intense round of airstrikes by the Jordanian military. Mueller was taken hostage by ISIS in Aleppo, Syria, back in 2013. She was there in the region helping families trying to escape from the violence in the region.

ISIS provided no way to verify its claim. The Jordanian government was quick to label the announcement a P.R. stunt and an attempt by ISIS to fracture the U.S.-led coalition. The claim is being met with heavy skepticism among U.S. government officials.

After all, this is ISIS that we're talking about, a group that has documented seemingly every horrific detail of its executions and yet in this instance it has offered zero proof of this hostage's death, releasing only these photos of a collapsed building where the group says Kayla Mueller was being held.

The timing of this announcement also fairly convenient. It comes as Jordan's military had just started ramping up its military campaign against the terrorist group as retaliation for the murder of a Jordanian air force pilot who had been burned alive.

Let's go live now to CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Barbara, the State Department says they have not seen anything to corroborate this claim, but, of course, that does not mean officials are not taking it seriously.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Taking it very seriously, Jake. You know, Kayla Mueller's family at one point got a $6 million ransom demand from ISIS. Nobody has heard much about Kayla Mueller until today, and now, across Washington, agencies are looking into every scrap of information to see if they can determine what happened to her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): The ISIS claim, Kayla Mueller, a 26-year-old American aid worker, died in a Jordanian airstrike on this building in Raqqa, Syria.

Immediate skepticism. ISIS claims Mueller alone was killed by a second round of airstrikes by Jordanian F-16s.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That is obviously very convenient from their point of view, that she would be alone in this building without any other guards, who were all supposedly out at Friday prayers when this airstrike happened to hit the house. And they are, of course, saying that it was from a Jordanian aircraft. How on earth could they know that it was a Jordanian aircraft, rather than another aircraft from the United States or some other power?

STARR: Jordan calling the ISIS claim -- quote -- "the latest low P.R. stunt" and said ISIS is trying to drive a wedge between the coalition.

Key questions, how would ISIS know it was a Jordanian bomb? Is this a way to avoid the backlash of killing a woman? Why would she be left alone in a building? Could ISIS have abandoned her in order to make her a human shield?

JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: If I was ISIS, with the prisoners and hostages that I held, I would put them in key buildings and positions and try to get that out to the coalition against me to maybe deter them from bombing them.

STARR: The Obama administration had been worried about Mueller since she was captured in August 2013. And after the violent video of the killing of the Jordanian pilot emerged, U.S. officials privately expressed growing concern about her fate.

But as Jordan's Queen Rania marched in the streets of Amman against is, it appears the ISIS strategy is backfiring. Arab resolve is growing.

HUSSEIN MAJALI, JORDANIAN INTERIOR MINISTER: We look at ourselves as principals in this coalition. This is our war. This is not the West's war. We are the spearhead of this war.

(END VIDEOTAPE) STARR: Now, you will remember, last year, the U.S. special forces tried to stage a rescue mission in Raqqa. They went to a site where they believed the late journalist James Foley and other hostages were being held.

When they got there, none of the hostages were there. But we know that they found evidence that the hostages had been there. Now we know that two pieces of evidence were fairly clear to them. There were writings on the wall and they found hair samples. One of the sources I have talked to said they couldn't confirm that that hair sample, that one of those hair samples did belong to Kayla Mueller.

But I have to tell you, "The Washington Post" is saying that it was her hair. And, Jake, it goes without saying, today, our hearts and thoughts are with her family, who must be watching all of this news coverage, looking for answers and, right now, there just aren't any -- Jake.

TAPPER: And we share their hopes that this is just propaganda from ISIS and not anything indicating something worse. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you so much.

Jordan's government insists that this is just a cynical attempt by ISIS to create friction between the coalition. The foreign minister went so far as to call the claim an old and sick trick. And officials there have good reason not to believe a word ISIS says.

Let's go live now to CNN's Atika Shubert in Amman, Jordan.

Atika Shubert, ISIS has recently tried to deceive Jordanian officials by negotiating a prisoner swap with a hostage that they had already killed. So, I know, in Jordan, officials there think ISIS can't be trusted at all, of course.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly.

And Jordan says they are investigating this, but they say there is good reason to believe that this is nothing but propaganda and a P.R. stunt. And, remember, they have been negotiating -- they say that they have been negotiating with them for a month now, only to learn in the last few days, of course, that Muath al-Kaseasbeh, that Jordanian air pilot, was so brutally murdered weeks ago.

As far as the Jordanian government is concerned, ISIS has simply proven that they are capable of lying like this. And there are multiple reasons they say not to believe this point, this claim, but specifically there is no evidence that this claim is true at this point. And they say it's simply an opportunity by ISIS to try and drive a wedge into the coalition, to try and tarnish Jordan once again, and they say that the world should not fall for it.

TAPPER: Atika Shubert in Amman, Jordan, thank you so much.

Before today, little was known about American aid worker Kayla Mueller. At least no one talked about it much publicly. The FBI and Mueller's family wanted her identity withheld by the media and others, so as to protect her.

But as details now emerge about what she was doing in Syria at the time she was kidnapped, it's clear this is a person who had devoted her life to trying to help other people, less fortunate people, people in the Middle East.

I'm joined now by CNN's Pamela Brown.

What have you learned about Mueller?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, a spokesperson for the Mueller family released some new information today on Kayla highlighting her quiet leadership throughout her life and her strong desire to serve others. That sentiment echoed in a sit-in video of Kayla expressing her support to the Syrian people before the rise of ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYLA MUELLER, ISIS HOSTAGE: I am in solidarity with the Syrian people.

BROWN: Twenty-six--year-old Prescott, Arizona, native Kayla Mueller's passion for helping people is what ultimately brought her to the Turkish-Syria border several years ago. In 2011, she took part in this Syria sit-in video declaring her support for the refugees.

The humanitarian aid worker volunteered with the Support to Life organization in Turkey, where she helped people living in refugee camps. In 2013, she was credited by her hometown newspaper, "Daily Courier," with reuniting a 6-year-old boy with his family. She told the newspaper, "This story is not rare in Syria," adding, "for as long as I live, I will not let this suffering be normal. I will not let this be something we just accept."

In high school, Mueller volunteered with the Save Darfur coalition, among other organizations. She won a number of philanthropic awards and was recognized as a national young leader. She told "The Daily Courier" in 2007, "I love cultures and language and learning about people's cultures."

After graduating from Northern Arizona University in 2009, she lived and worked with humanitarian aid groups in Northern India, Israel and Palestine.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA OFFICER: What ISIS has been doing for the last year-and-a-half is collecting foreigners for hostages. As we have sort of seen in the last six months, they have been executing a lot of people who really are tangential to the conflict.

BROWN: In August 2013, Mueller was kidnapped in the Syrian city of Aleppo, where she was volunteering with Spanish Doctors Without Borders. After the beheadings of three American hostages, Mueller would be the last known American hostage held by ISIS.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: And the spokesperson says that in May of 2014, the first contact was made to the family confirming Kayla's captivity and providing proof of life.

Since then, there have been communications from her captors, Jake. And, of course, you can just imagine how agonizing this must be for her family.

TAPPER: It's excruciating. I cannot imagine. Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

The battle against ISIS continues to rage, of course, not only in Syria, but in Iraq as well. Our own Phil Black is on the front lines in Northern Iraq. And that is where we will go live next, as our breaking news continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

We are following some breaking news in our world lead, ISIS claiming that Kayla Mueller, an American hostage, was killed when Jordan carried out an airstrike in Syria, the U.S. government making it clear it is not taking the word of ISIS at face value, Jordan calling the claim a low P.R. stunt.

Meanwhile, Kurdish fighters are desperately trying to keep ISIS from taking more territory in Northern Iraq.

CNN's Phil Black joins me live now from the front lines. More specifically, he's in Northern Iraq in the town of Irbil.

Phil, there is this ISIS propaganda campaign and then there's the actual fighting on the ground. What are you seeing there?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jake.

The military campaign specifically here in northern Iraq is not going as well for ISIS as it once did. Remember last year when they first crossed the border from Syria, they came charging in conquering large areas of land very quickly. Well, since then, Kurdish fighters on the ground with the help of international air power have really successfully stopped that advance to a significant degree and even rolled it back in parts, taking back large areas of those territorial gains ISIS had made.

When you talk to the fighters on the ground, they say we believe we are winning this. That does not mean the defeat of ISIS is imminent, far from it. They are still attacking or trying to, at least, on multiple fronts, still control big areas of territory and crucially, still control the Iraqi city of Mosul, just to the west of where I'm standing, the country's second largest city.

But increasingly also, Kurdish fighters are choking off that city, closing down its supply lines from across the border in Syria. So, ISIS is still very much a presence here but it is having a much tougher time on the ground here in northern Iraq, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Phil, since this began with is grabbing territory, especially in northern Iraq, Kurdish fighters have been saying they need more help, they need more help, they need more international support, lethal aid, any sort of aid. What are they telling you today?

BLACK: Yes, weapons. That's what they say they want. You hear it at every level from front line fighters to the highest level officials. They are frustrated because they believe they are fighting well, they are making progress, but they are also suffering pretty high casualties. They have lost about 1,000 fighters since last June.

They are frustrated because they say the Iraqi army which proved ineffectual in dealing with ISIS, have even left weapons behind as they fled before ISIS, so it means that ISIS has those weapons and is using them against the Kurdish fighters.

They believe that they are not just fighting for their own survival here, which they are, because their territory is threatened, but also because they are part of the international coalition. They say they want to be more respected, they want that sort of help to really make a difference on the ground.

TAPPER: Phil Black reporting for us in Irbil, Iraq. Phil, thank you. Please stay safe.

Let's bring in Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. He's a senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy. Also joining me is CNN terror analyst Paul Cruickshank, the co-author of the book, "Agent Storm".

Daveed, let me start with you. How credible do you think this claim is either that the American hostage was killed by the Jordanians accidentally in an airstrike or just the fact that she may no longer be alive?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY: The fact she may no longer be alive is pretty credible. I think that ISIS is probably saying that because she's dead, though let's obviously hope she isn't. But as for the claim she was killed specifically by a Jordanian air strike, that just seems far too pat. That's exactly what ISIS would like to have happened in that it seems to split up the coalition, it shows that the Jordanian airstrikes were for nothing good for the coalition, and also, it robs them of this problem that they have which what is do they do with Kayla Mueller.

TAPPER: Paul, you agree?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: I absolutely agree. I mean, this just really smacks of propaganda from ISIS, Daveed was saying. Just all too convenient from their point of view. The idea as well that there will be no guards, no ISIS operatives in this building with such a high value prisoner just beggars belief, Jake.

TAPPER: Paul, help us understand why ISIS would make this claim from the perspective of their propaganda goals. Obviously, they want to scare people. Obviously, they want to tell the world, hey, Jordan getting more involved was a mistake. Is that their main goal?

CRUICKSHANK: Yes. I mean, yesterday all their headlines was all that joint resolve between Jordan and the United States. So, this is clearly to try to drive a wedge between Jordan and the United States, to blame Jordan for the death of this American. The other messaging going on here, though, is that Jordan attacked during Friday prayers, a holy time obviously for Muslims, and what they are trying to say there is how could Jordan do this? They are claiming to be Muslims but how could they do this.

They are basically saying that Jordan are not proper Muslims to be targeting other Muslims at this time. So, some very deliberate messaging going on here. This is pure propaganda, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Daveed, there was some hope by American officials that by ISIS killing a Jordanian pilot, burning him which according to some interpretations of the Koran is forbidden, that that would be a propaganda coup, propaganda mistake by ISIS, a propaganda coup for Jordan, ISIS getting in there saying not so fast, this is our world of propaganda.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Right. They have, ISIS does, a base that's really attracted to the sheer brutality that they have been carrying out. That being said, I think that they have a strategy which isn't really sustainable in the long term. I mean, you can recall, of course, al Qaeda in Iraq and how their brutality exceeded what any of the other branches of al Qaeda were doing and eventually, that brand became toxic when it caused local uprisings against it in the awakening movement. Likewise with ISIS, the burning probably alienates some of their supporters but only a few at this point.

In the longer term, especially if they seem to be losing and seem to be losing because of their own excesses, then they're going to have real branding problems. Unfortunately, that's not the case right now. But there's many things that the United States and other coalition forces can do to dispel ISIS' very powerful propaganda because the propaganda, like ISIS itself, is vulnerable.

TAPPER: Paul, is there any difference in whomever ISIS is trying to appeal to with their propaganda, their warped messages? Is there any difference between ISIS killing a Jordanian pilot and killing a woman aid worker? Does the fact that she's a woman -- does the fact that she's an aid worker not change the equation at all?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it's been quite curious from the ISIS point of view that they haven't beheaded any international western females on camera, they have all been male, the victims. Of course, we know that ISIS has brutalized young girls in just absolutely awful ways. But for whatever reason, they have not beheaded, murdered women from the West internationals on camera in this way. And perhaps ISIS had a kind of dilemma with what to do with this American female hostage and perhaps they sort of gave them a very, very convenient way out.

TAPPER: All right. Paul Cruickshank and Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

Coming up, the White House now responding directly to the claims by ISIS that an American woman was killed in the Jordanian air strike. We'll have that next.

Plus, we now know neither engine was running in the seconds right before Flight 235 crashed. And there is now new evidence the pilot turned off one of the engines. Why? Why would they do that? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We are going to continue now with our world lead.

This unconfirmed claim by the terrorist group ISIS that a Jordanian airstrike killed 26-year-old Kayla Mueller, an American aid worker held by the terrorist group in Syria since August 2013. If the claim is true, she would be the fourth American killed while in ISIS custody.

But let me reiterate, this claim is uncorroborated and for a group that in a sick way likes to broadcast its killings, they are not providing even basic proof.

I want to go right to CNN's Michelle Kosinski live at the White House.

Michelle, just this afternoon, both President Obama and the national security advisor Dr. Susan Rice spoke publicly. Did they have anything to say about Kayla Mueller?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president didn't mention it. We kind of expected that. But we've heard virtually the same things, this coordinated response thus far from the State Department, the White House and the national security advisor, all saying basically two things. That they are deeply concerned about these reports that are coming out and that there is no credible evidence at this point that these claims are true.

That said, though, the White House does say the intelligence community is obviously looking into this and trying to get some more information, because it has been interesting in these last two cases, first with the Jordanian pilot, for a long time ISIS would not provide proof of life. Then, it turns out it happened as we now know it did. In this case, no proof of death, just this story about the death being caused by a Jordanian air strike.

I think it will be interesting to see how long it takes for us to get some corroboration. If it's not going to come from ISIS, that will tell us just how good the intelligence is coming out of there, if we are able to learn something more before ISIS puts something out, Jake.

TAPPER: Of course, I know I speak for you and everybody watching that we are hoping there is no corroboration because we hope it's not true. So this hostage, Mueller, she has been held captive by ISIS for about a year and a half. Do you know of any attempts to negotiate behind the scenes? Was anyone in the U.S. government trying to do something to secure her release or was her family trying anything?

KOSINSKI: We know that the U.S. government was working on it. They don't go into any detail. For a long time they didn't want to mention her name or any detail surrounding this hostage, but they did say that they were using every effort, repeatedly we heard this, using every effort, intelligence, diplomacy, to try to secure her release. They don't really like to go into a lot of details about these things but now that this news or this report has come out, we are hearing from her family that there was a demand made for 5 million euros and they put a deadline on it back in August.

So far, the U.S. government has not commented on any of that, Jake.

TAPPER: We know there have been similar stories about other American hostages held by ISIS with those families saying the Obama administration dissuaded them, discouraged them from paying ransom.

Michelle Kosinski at the White House, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

In our national lead, it's a story that seems to evolve with every passing day, every passing hour. Exactly what happened on that helicopter convoy in Iraq 12 years ago where NBC anchor Brian Williams was reporting. Three members of that mission are now speaking out and they have a different story to tell from the one we heard from a pilot yesterday. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)