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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Examining the Ukraine Ceasefire; Judge Blocks Obama's Immigration Orders; Nashville Struggles Through Ice Storm

Aired February 17, 2015 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FARAH PANDITH, FORMER SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE TO MUSLIM COMMUNITIES: What's very specific about ISIS is that they have been able to do a really great job, obviously, in the online space of making the appeal real for the millennial generation, both girls and boys. And they have outsmarted us and outpaced us in this.

But that doesn't mean they're going to win. It's not as though they have tools that we never heard of. It's not as though that they have tactics that we can't outdo. What has been missing along the way is the scale-up and the creativity of how we get into that space so that we are beating them at their own game and moving forward to do exactly what we have to do, which is to stop the seduction of young Muslim kids both in the West and around the world.

TAPPER: I want you to both take a listen to this from State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf on "Hardball" last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "HARDBALL")

MARIE HARF, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: We cannot win this war by killing them. We cannot kill our way out of this war. We need, in the longer term, medium and longer term, to go after the root causes that leads people to join these groups.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, she went on to talk about lack of economic opportunity.

Is that the problem, Farah? Or is it something else? Because, as the British argue and others, the British government argues, a lot of the people who do this are not poor. The London bombers were not poor. Mohamed Atta came from an affluent family.

PANDITH: We get into a lot of problems when we say, here are the things that are going to make somebody go bad.

You have got to be uneducated, you have got to be poor, you have got to come from a broken home. You must be of this ethnicity or you must be male. Each of those things, we have proven wrong. And so what we have to do is we have to understand that, as I said, it's the demographic. What's happened to millennials? What is enticing to them? And how do we think about it? And it's like a petri dish. You can have the same things in a petri dish and depending on the light, and the sun and the water, some things will grow, some things will not grow. We need to be diligent, we need to understand that that's the case and we need to go back to the local level and understand that in order to stop the appeal and stop a young person from moving along that conveyer belt, the community must be activated and their ideas need to be scaled up.

TAPPER: Congressman, there's a new story in "The Atlantic" that compares followers of ISIS to those of cults led by the likes of David Koresh or Jim Jones. If that's the case, doesn't this really limit the ways this problem can be solved or if it can be solved at all?

ROGERS: There are probably elements of that, but what we have seen for years, decades really in the United States, is this sense of empowerment. We saw this with street gangs.

And so they took good kids from decent neighborhoods and were able to draw them into something that allowed them to feel empowered. It's more to me like that than what you would describe as a cult. So there's a way to disrupt that and there's plenty of ways to do it. Remember, Zawahri, who's the head of al Qaeda, is a surgeon. You have very educated people, you have very poor people joining together in this movement.

So, now you have to discard what I think are the easy talking points and get at, what will motivate someone to go from their life that may be normal and decent and take the next step and go into either criminal behavior or terrorist behavior in this case? I think we have lots and lots of information here to move on, but, again, the first thing you have to do is show that these folks are not winning overseas.

That is one of the first and foremost things that draw these new recruits into this fight.

TAPPER: Former Congressman Mike Rogers and Farah Pandith, thank you both so much for your insights. Appreciate it.

In other world news, what cease-fire? The violence raging in Ukraine and now reports of up to 60 prisoners of war taken by the pro-Russian separatists, neither side apparently willing to back down at all.

Our own Nick Paton Walsh is on the front lines. And he's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

It's not that the cease-fire in Ukraine is falling apart. It's that it never really had been respected to begin with. That deafening blast from shelling that hit a pipeline near a crucial city in serious danger of falling to pro-Russian separatists. Ukraine says five of its troops have been killed in just the past 24 hours.

This comes just three days into the deal to end the carnage in Eastern Ukraine, a deal that Russian President Vladimir Putin was supposed to be enforcing. The U.S. government blaming Russia and Putin for violating the cease-fire, but impartial observers on the ground say there seem to be plenty of Ukrainian soldiers eager to bombard the pro-Russians separatists as well.

To civilians caught in the middle, it really doesn't much matter.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in Ukraine.

Nick, Ukraine's forces struggling to hold their ground there.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

And I think it's remarkable that we can be talking about who holds what in Debaltseve, when we're supposed to be in the middle of a cease-fire. We started the day with the separatists claiming they hold 80 percent of that city. That was denied by the Ukrainians. Now we're hearing the Ukrainians accept, yes, well, we control parts of Debaltseve.

They also now accept that some of their troops are captured by the separatists. We have been saying for days it's actually encircled. The question you have to ask yourself really is, who does it belong to? Under the Minsk accords, you technically could argue that road out of it was held by the Ukrainians, therefore, it was Ukrainian territory. The separatists said it's always been encircled.

Now listen to Vladimir Putin, who today in Budapest in the European Union effectively says that those Ukrainian troops inside Debaltseve should surrender. Remarkable words from him. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I expect that the officials in charge in the Ukrainian leadership will not prevent the Ukrainian troops and servicemen to lay down arms.

If they cannot, if those leaders cannot make such orders by themselves, and I hope they would not persecute people who want to lay down arms and save lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Hearing behind me in Donetsk just now what sounded like the impact of something incoming.

It's clear the cease-fire doesn't really even exist on paper, frankly, anymore. We're just waiting for the politicians who negotiated to recognize that. But Vladimir Putin is negotiating an entirely separate point. That is, what happens to these hundreds or thousands of Ukrainian troops who are without resupply, possibly running out of ammunition caught in a town that has been encircled for a very long time now?

What happens to them? That's going to be what may provoke a very angry response from Ukraine,from Ukraine's military, meager as it can be at times. The question you have to ask yourself now, Jake, is, are we seeing the terms of the Minsk agreement being laid out? Are the separatists finally finishing off their border, or are they beginning a new phase of their campaign, Jake?

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh live in Ukraine, thank you, my friend. Be safe.

When we come back: snow and ice leaving 250,000 people without power. This time, it's not the Northeast. How far south can this wicked winter go?

Plus, a state of emergency for parts of West Virginia after this fiery train derailment. Residents move to shelters. And now there are concerns again that the drinking water could be contaminated. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Moving now to our political lead, President Obama's attempts to sideline Congress were halted today after a federal judge in Texas blocked his immigration orders that would keep millions of undocumented immigrants in the United States.

The judge agreeing that the president had overstepped his legal authority. Joining me now with what this might mean moving forward is CNN's Joe Johns -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, for now, the Homeland Security Department is suspending implementation of the new policy so it can comply with the court order and take the legal fight to the next level.

At the very least, this is a time-out on relaxing the deportation rules for illegal immigrants, people who don't have their papers and it comes just hours before the application process for children was supposed to start.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): Less than two days before the government was going to start taking applications for immigrant children, who want protection from deportation, a huge last-minute setback.

A Texas federal judge brings the administration's new deferred enforcement policy that's could affect up to 5 million people to a screeching halt at least temporarily. Republican Texas Governor Greg Abbott filed the lawsuit on behalf of his and 25 other states.

GOVERNOR GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: In Texas, we will not sit idly by while the president ignores the law and fails to secure the border.

JOHNS: Judge Andrew Hannon said Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson did not follow the law and administrative rules when he launched the new policies on deferred enforcement late last year.

Hannon wrote, the public interest factor that weighs the heaviest is ensuring that actions of the executive branch comply with this country's laws and its constitution.

The judge is an appointee of former President George W. Bush and a sharp critic of President Obama's policies. The White House, which is girding for a fight over its executive actions that could affect funding of Homeland Security said what it did wasn't against the law at all.

Those policies are consistent with the laws passed by the Congress and decisions of the Supreme Court as well as five decades of precedent by presidents of both parties. Attorney General Eric Holder promised a quick appeal.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: This I would view as an interim step in a process that has more to play out.

JOHNS: The ruling means people who are planning on filing for deferred action on immigration for their children starting on Wednesday will have to wait.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: These people who were so excited in November now they can gather their papers together, but they can't participate in the program.

JOHNS: And the president's supporters were urging immigrants who want to change their status to use the time --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: We're going to run some tape that's coming in right now. President Obama weighing in on this and other issues, let's take a listen.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: -- everything making sure we are dismantling ISIL, not only stabilizing the situation in Iraq, but addressing the foreign fighter issue and countering the narrative of violent extremism that has been turbo charged through the internet.

We had a chance to talk about situations like Ukraine. We also had an opportunity to talk about how we maintain the strongest and most effective military in the world and how (inaudible) with our outstanding men and women in uniform.

I could not be more confident that Ashton Carter is going to do an outstanding job as the secretary of defense and he is hitting the ground running having already spent a lot of time in this administration and in the Pentagon.

So I want to thank the Senate for confirming him almost unanimously and look forward to working with him in the years to come. I think America will be very well served by Mr. Ash croft.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible question).

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I disagree with the Texas judge's ruling, and the Justice Department will appeal. This is not the first time where a lower court judge has blocked something or attempted to block something that ultimately was shown to be lawful.

And I'm confident that it is well within my authority and the tradition of the executive branch's prosecutorial discretion to execute this policy which will help us make our borders safer, will help us go after criminals and those we don't want in this country.

It will help people get on the right side of the law and get out of the shadows and keep in mind that this is something that we necessarily have to make choices about because we've got 11 million people here who we're not all going to deport.

Many of them are our neighbors. Many of them are working in our communities. Many of their children are U.S. citizens and as we saw with the executive action that I took for DREAMERS, people who had come here as young children and are American by any other name except for their legal papers, who want to serve this country oftentimes want to go into the military or start businesses or in other ways contribute.

I think the American people overwhelmingly recognize that to pretend like we are going to ship them off is unrealistic and not who we are. So I've also said throughout this process that the only way we're going to get immigration fully fixed is by Congress acting.

And we know that there has been bipartisan support in the past for comprehensive immigration reform. I held off taking these executive actions until we had exhausted all possibilities of getting congressional action done.

With a new Congress, my hope has been that they now get serious in solving the problem. Instead, what we've had is a series of votes to kick out young people who have grown up here and everybody recognizes are part of our community and threats to defund the Department of Homeland Security, which would make it even harder for us to protect our borders and to keep our people safe.

So my strong advice right now to Congress is, if they are seriously concerned about immigration, about our borders, about being able to keep criminals out of this country, that what they should be doing is working together and working with this administration for a comprehensive immigration policy that allows us to continue to be both a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

And certainly they need to start funding the Department of Homeland Security so that they can go forward with all the functions that Republicans say they want carried out, including strong border security functions. But with respect to the ruling, I disagree with it.

I think the law is on our side and history is on our side and we are going to appeal it. For those who are now wondering whether or not they should apply, we are going to refer those questions to Department of Homeland Security that's already begun the planning process, and we will be prepared to implement this fully as soon as the legal issues get resolved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible question).

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, keep in mind, we're not going to disregard this federal court ruling. You know, the law is the law in this country, and we take things a step at a time. So we're not going to be actually taking applications until this case is settled.

But we are doing the preparatory work because this is a big piece of business and it's important for us to do in order for us to actually secure our borders effectively and allocate limited resources to the most important paths and functions the Department of Homeland Security has.

We should not be tearing some mom away from her child when the child has been born here and that mom has been living here for the last ten years minding her own business and being an important part of the community.

We should be focusing on stopping people at the borders, reinforcing our effectiveness there, going after criminals and felons who are in our midst who we can't deport, strengthening our systems for legal immigration.

Those are all the things that we could be doing through a comprehensive immigration reform bill, and in fact, we know that there has been in the past bipartisan support for that. But, as I said before, I'm not willing to just stand by and do nothing and engage in a lot of political rhetoric.

I'm interested in actually solving problems. I'd like to see Congress take that same approach. In the meantime, the Department of Homeland Security will continue with the planning because we want to make sure, as soon as these legal issues get resolved, which I anticipate they will in our favor, that we are ready to go.

Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you guys, appreciate it.

TAPPER: President Obama in the White House just a few minutes ago sitting with the new Secretary Of Defense Ashton Carter talking about the immigration action that he took and a judge in Texas that blocked it.

I want to bring back Joe Jones. Joe, how significant do you think it is that this judge in Texas blocked the president's immigration orders? What do legal experts tell you?

JOHNS: Well, I think to be perfectly honest it's certainly seen as a setback for supporters of the policy. But on the other hand, I think there was a bit of a surprise in that the states were actually able to get a judge to say, the states have a stake in this because this is a fight really between the White House and the Congress.

But they did, they found a judge to do that and some say it was a bit of forum shopping to sort of locate that judge who is highly critical of the administration, especially on immigration issues, put it before him, and they got it. So the next step, of course, is an appeal. The administration is going to test whether an appeals court actually will say that the states have a stake when this fight is between the Congress and the White House -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, more to come on that. Joe Johns, thank you so much.

Let's turn now to our National Lead. Big winter storms slamming the eastern half of the United States with snow and ice paralyzing cities throughout the country, arctic temperatures creating dangerously icy driving conditions.

Watch as an out-of-control car hits another vehicle, nearly taking out a camera crew in Virginia. That's brutal. In D.C., the federal government shutting down today as the area faces its biggest snowfall of the season, some places with up to 6 inches, of course worse in other areas.

A state of emergency issued in places across the south, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia and in Tennessee where at least three people are reported dead because of the weather, thousands remain without power.

Nashville, Tennessee, is dealing with its worst ice storm in 20 years. They have canceled school in the city area for the rest of the week. Joining me now on the phone is Dean Flener. He is the executive officer for the Tennessee Emergency Management Agency.

Dean, thanks for joining us. Describe to us what's going on around the state of Tennessee right now.

DEAN FLENER, TENNESSEE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY (via telephone): Well, we're seeing traffic move better this afternoon than last night. We are still working to help motorists, encouraging people to not drive because it is still treacherous out there.

But the Tennessee National Guard, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Tennessee Department of Transportation, Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency, a number of state agencies have worked very, very hard last night and today to help stranded motorists to get the interstates back open and moving.

We've had the American Red Cross, Tennessee Department of Health, and Tennessee Department of Human Services working to make sure people are taken care of. We've provided water, food, and we have people on standby tonight to monitor the ongoing situation.

We're still concerned about roads. We're still concerned about incoming weather. We are still very concerned about protecting people who may be out tonight, and we are really encouraging people to limit travel if at all possible.

TAPPER: Dean, I know Tennessee is not immune to winter, but this is not usually an area that has to deal with weather like this, this bad. Do you have all the resources you need? FLENER: We do, and we have brought those resources to bear on this storm. We started watching the potential for this on Friday, having calls with the National Weather Service, talking with Tennessee Highway Patrol, Tennessee Department of Transportation, and other state agencies about the potential for a severe winter situation.

The snow didn't get as deep in middle Tennessee as what we expected, but we did get sleet and ice, which made that treacherous. And we had TDOT out, Tennessee Department of Transportation, salting, brining roads, using snow plows on roads, and Tennessee Highway Patrol helping stranded motorists and other state agencies.

So we have brought to bear our resources to make sure we are protecting people who are living in Tennessee and out traveling. Again, we just really want to emphasize how treacherous it is and people avoid unnecessary travel.

TAPPER: All right, Dean Flener, thank you so much. Make sure to follow me on Twitter @jaketapper and also @theleadcnn. That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Turning you over now to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."