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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Live Coverage of the Second Presidential Debate in St. Louis; President Barack Obama Gave a Speech in Illinois; New WikiLeaks Hack Reveals Clinton's Goldman Sachs Speeches. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 09, 2016 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:00:21] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. Welcome to the beautiful campus of Washington University in St. Louis. And a special edition of the LEAD debate night in America. I'm Jake Tapper.
As I mentioned, we are in St. Louis, Missouri where in just a few hours, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton will face off in their second presidential debate. You're looking at the debate stage right now. It'll be moderated by Anderson Cooper as well as ABC's Martha Raddatz. It'll be conducted in a town fall format. And will feature questions from undecided voters. Of course, the big question, how will Donald Trump handle the fallout over that video tape. The lewd and vulgar comments about boasting, about sexually assaulting women in the newly published 2005 tape. The comments have plunged the Republican Party into chaos less than a month before the presidential election. The Trump campaign says he will apologize for the lewd remarks this evening. We just got this picture moments ago of Trump doing a walk- through in the debate hall. He is what campaign surrogate Rudy Giuliani told me earlier today about what Trump will have to say this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: He is going to apologize for what he did. He is going to explain to people that that is not the man he is today. And he is going to count on the fact that the American people are fair and decent people. And when someone asks for forgiveness, they usually give it. I mean, the reality is, this is not the man then. This is not the man that ran for president for a year and a half and has learned the tremendous concerns the American people have. And really, is the only one right now who is in a position to straighten it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is covering the Trump campaign.
Jim, what more are you hearing about how Trump is going to respond. He has been responding on twitter. And in that video tape from Saturday by attacking the Clintons.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Jake. And keep in mind, he told the "New York Post" prior to this Trump tape coming out on Friday that he was not going to go after the Clintons and their personal lives. He was telling page six he wanted to focus on the issues. Obviously what happened on Friday changed all of that. And I can tell you from talking to sources that during debate preparations, they were looking at other parts of Hillary Clinton's record during this debate prep. So they are going to hit her on a number of fronts. But it does appear from every indication so far that Donald Trump is going to get personal tonight.
I have talked to a couple of campaign sources and surrogates and supporters, key supports to this campaign, who say this is just a bad idea. Donald Trump will simply turn Hillary Clinton into a sympathetic figure during this debate if he does that. There are concerns across the Republican --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- one extraordinary candidate. We have two extraordinary candidates at the top of the ballot. And I'm proud to call them both friends. Our next president, Hillary Clinton and our next senator, Tammy Duckworth. And I have had the pleasure of knowing Tammy for a long time. I could not be happier that she is running from my old senate seat because I loved being your senator. It was a great job. I got to spend time traveling across this great state. Small towns, farmlands, the world's greatest city. And what I always explain to people is Illinois is a microcosm of the country. More representative than any other state of the broad diversity of America. It's a place for Democrats and Republicans and independents and people of good will, of all races and faiths, share certain bedrock values. If you rank 50 states across the categories of age and education, household income, race, religion, then the land of Lincoln is the best mirror for who we are.
TAPPER: That was President Obama. President Obama there speaking at a campaign event in Chicago, Illinois for Tammy Duckworth who is a congresswoman running for state senate, running Senate seat there in that state again incumbent senator, Mark Kirk. We'll monitor that and see if he has anything newsworthy to say.
Meanwhile, a source telling CNN Hillary Clinton planned to address Donald Trump's remarks, Donald Trump's vulgar comments early in the debate. The moderators will ask it right off the bat in an exclusive interview. Clinton's running mate Senator Tim Kaine said the recording reflect a pattern of behavior that Trump will have to answer for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:05:13] SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is, I think, why this issue on Friday just galvanized people, because it's not something you can explain away as an aberration or hear something like, this was me ten year ago. It's not who I am now. There is plenty of evidence that this is exactly who Donald Trump is today. And by this I mean, divisive and cavalier in his treatment of others. And with respect to women in particular.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is covering the Clinton campaign for CNN.
And Jeff, how has the leak of this videotape, this revelation affected Hillary Clinton's debate prep?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it has affected of course. She spent seven hours yesterday in a hotel near her Chappaqua home going over all types of scenarios. Many including how she is she will respond to that. So now, we do know that both candidates will be asked about this at the very beginning of the debate.
And I am told that Hillary Clinton is going to, you know, make clear this is not a one off incident. This is a pattern of behavior in the words of one adviser, and she is even prepared to give specific examples, like she did during the first debate about the Miss Universe from 1996. So that is one thing she wants to do.
But Jake, she also is trying to do, I'm told, is take advantage of what could be a new opening for some Republican voters out there, some moderates, independents, who may not have been considering her at the first debate. But given all the events of this weekend, now they may be considering her. So she is not going to dwell on it, I'm told, but she is going to move on and bring people into, at least try to, her campaign - Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny who covers Clinton campaign for us, thank you so much.
Joining me, my panel of CNN reporters and analysts. We have with us CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston, national political reporter Maeve Reston, and also, of course, senior political analyst David Gergen, in addition to an enthusiastic crowd of Washington students behind us.
David, when it comes to Hillary Clinton's debate prep, I am sure that they are gaming out all sorts of responses that Donald Trump might have that involve Juanita Broderick, Kathleen (INAUDIBLE), Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Jennifer Flowers, on and on and on. How would you advise her to deal with the allegations against her husband and how she, in particular, handled those allegations? Their allegations about her smearing some of the women.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I would think, Jake, that she ought to come out and be very stern about his behavior, his records and the fact that, you know, there is a lot more evidence than this one tape that she can use. But on the other hand, I don't think she ought to get into the details. And she particularly doesn't want to get back into the details and re-litigate Jennifer Flowers and the women of Clinton's fast. Bit rather what she wants to do is provide a general overall umbrella and then try to move the debate on. But she needs to nail him hard on is and move on.
I think what they also have to do is, OK, she says something and he comes back and hits her. What does she do next? And what is the second and third response and fourth response, you know. You have to have a battle plan that goes beyond the first couple exchanges. TAPPER: Gloria, let me ask you. How much do you think that this
tape, the release of just the end of it for Donald Trump? He was already down in the polls and his numbers were already starting to crater with groups of independent voters, college educated whites, and that's before the tape.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And with women now. I was talking to somebody in the campaign. They haven't got the results yet. It kind of takes a while to see whether there is a precipitous drop. I don't think they expect there to be one immediately. It takes a while for this to get into the water.
TAPPER: Yes, broke it 4:00 on Friday.
BORGER: But one of the things they Are going to try to do tonight is try and make sure that what occurred Friday with this videotape can be broadened out to a larger issue about Donald Trump as commander in- chief.
TAPPER: That's what the Trump people want to do?
BORGER: The Clinton people want to expand it, according to my source, and say look, how does this impact his ability to be president and work for you? He will be in charge of the armed forces. Women serve in the armed forces. He has to appoint an administration. He has to deal with issues regarding women. And so what Hillary Clinton is going to do, as David suggests, is not get down into it, talk about Juanita Broderick, et cetera, et cetera, but say, look, I understand this happened 11 years ago, but 11 days ago, they had Alicia Machado. And so, she is going to try to play it forward. How would you deal with female world leaders? How will that affect you? So they want it to play into the question of temperament and steadiness.
[16:10:10] TAPPER: Maeve, do you think that this is salvageable? Is there something that Donald Trump can say? Is there a way he can conduct himself over the next month that could mitigate what a disaster this tape is?
MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I think there is. I mean, there's no reason any of us should be predicting that this race is over at this point. It is very volatile. We have see over and over again that particularly his supporters will sort of brush aside remarks, not quite like this, but close to this, as being something that's in the past. And if he does show real contrition, you know, and really go after Hillary Clinton in an effective way, I think there is a chance for him to come back here.
I mean, the country is so polarized. There are so many people who are hardened in their opinions on who they were going to support. And so clearly, the biggest problem he is going to have is what has always been his problem, which is white, suburban, college educated women, who were horrified when they listened to this tape.
TAPPER: And Mark, obviously, 16 republic senators, many Republican governors, many Republicans of the house have now said they are not supporting Donald Trump. They are going to ride to Tim Kaine. Some of them calling for him to step out of the race. How do these remarks affect Donald Trump's ability to win, his ground game, his ability to get voters to the polls in Ohio or Utah?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right. And really, the problem is, we are focusing on, is Kellyanne Conway, is she going to quit? Is his top leadership going to quit? You really got to look down and you got to say who are the people running the states right now? Who are the people that are knocking on doors? Who are the ones making the telephone calls? And from what I understand in several of the states right now, that there is such frustration, that he is going to lose staff. He is going to lose volunteers right now. And that is going to hurt him, specifically in the state of Florida, specifically in the state of Pennsylvania.
TAPPER: All right, guys, stay with me. We have more to discuss.
Still ahead, a key question surrounding Donald Trump. Whose voice will influence him the most this evening? A campaign aid, Hillary Clinton? We will ask someone from inside his communications team next.
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[16:14:09] OBAMA: That tells you a couple things. That tells you he is insecure enough, that he pumps himself up by putting other people down. Not a character trait I would advise for somebody in the oval office. It tells you that he doesn't care much about the basic values that we try to impart to our kids. It tells you he would be careless with the civility and the respect that a real vibrant democracy requires. And it sure as heck tells you he is never met someone as tough or smart or patriotic at Tammy Duckworth.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: You want to see leadership, that's the kind of leadership you have to look for. So bottom line is this. If you want to send a message in this election, then you have to vote for Hillary Clinton and you have to vote for Tammy Duckworth. If you want leaders who actually respect Americans and value hard work, if you want higher wages, better benefits, a fairer tax code, a bigger voice for workers, equal pay for equal , stronger regulations on for Hillary Clinton and Tammy Duckworth. If you want a better kind of politics for our nation, if you want common sense and a commitment to facts and reason, and a belief that here in America, we are stronger together, then you have to vote for Hillary Clinton and you have to vote for Tammy Duckworth. And all of that is going to require you. You are going to have to work. You can't take it for granted.
Too much is at stake to get lazy or take it for granted right now. We got to hustle. We got to work. We have to fight for it. So I'm asking all of you to join me. I'm asking all of you to work your hearts out. It's only 30 days. Work hard. Get out there. But if you're willing to work hard with me, with Michelle, and by the way, if you don't work hard, Michelle, might, you know -- you don't want to mess up with Michelle. I know. If you're willing to do this for me, then I am absolutely confident that not only are we going to win an election, but more importantly, we are going to send a message to our kids about who we are. We are going to reaffirm what this country is about.
Look, one thing I have learned over the last eight years is a lot of problems are hard, and progress is rarely overnight. Even in the great victories that we have had, like passing healthcare legislation that is improving the lives and saving lives of people right now. It's a grind. You have got to battle it out. And whatever policies you have put in place, they're not going to be absolutely perfect, and then you have to tweak them and continue to work to expand and make them work even better. When you look at issues like climate change, you know that there's going to be, you know -- for every two steps forward that we take, there's going to be some folks who want to block progress. There's too much money in politics. We know the lobbyists and special interests are still going to be having a big impact out there.
So democracy is not easy. It requires citizens who believe deeply that this form of government, the idea that we all have a voice and then we listen to each other and engage each other, and we argue but we don't demonize each other that out of that process comes something better. It requires work. It requires commitment. It's the kind of service that Tammy Duckworth understands.
She is made the kinds of sacrifices that most of us can't imagine. And the kinds of sacrifices she and her family are now making aren't as obvious. But they're just as meaningful. Because ultimately, what she does is to show us what real patriotism means. She is showing us what true love of country means. And for her to succeed, for Hillary to succeed, it's not enough just to mark a ballot box, although that's important. We are going to have to make sure that we got their back every step of the way. And I can tell you, this has been my life serving as president. I'm very much looking forward to life as a private citizen. But I will still be a citizen, and I will still have obligations. As hard after a sizable break and a lot of sleep to make sure that we leave to the next generation the same kind of incredible inheritance that we received from our parents and so let's get busy, everybody. Are you fired up? Are you ready to go?
Thank you, Chicago. I love you. Thank you, Tammy Duckworth.
[16:20:01] TAPPER: President Obama addressing a crowd in Chicago, a campaign event for Congresswoman Tammy Duckworth who is running for the Senate there. President Obama made remarks specifically about Donald Trump. We cut in at after halfway through. Let's play the majority of those specific remarks about Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: One of the most disturbing things about this election is the unbelievable rhetoric coming from the top of the Republican ticket. I don't need to repeat it. There are children in the room. But demeaning women, degrading women, but also minorities, immigrants, people of other faiths, mocking the disabled, insulting our troops, insulting our veterans. That tells you a couple things. It tells you that he is insecure enough that he pumps himself up by putting other people down. Not a character trait that I would advise for somebody in the oval office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: About half of the debate questions at this evening's debate town hall debate will come from audience made up of people who have told pollsters they're uncommitted. They have not decided who they are going to vote for. They were selected to be there by gala.
At the first presidential debate last month, we saw an unlikely figure in the audience, Governor Mike Pence. He sat next to Trump's daughter and wife. It is unusual for a running mate to watch a debate in person. We were told Governor Pence is not expected to be at this debate here in St. Louis this evening.
With us here, however, is Sarah Huckabee Sanders who is a senior adviser to the Trump campaign.
And so first of all, I have to ask, I have known you for a little while. I have known your family for a little while. I cannot imagine that you found the comments by Donald Trump on that 2005 tape in which he seems to be boasting about sexually assaulting women. I can't imagine you found that anything other than shocking and horrifying.
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, SENIOR ADVISOR TO TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I agree with you. And I think that most of America, including Donald Trump, saw those comments to be horrifying. And I think that's why he came out and apologized and tried to show that he knows that that was wrong. He admitted it was. And wants to move forward and talk about the issues that matter. And hopefully, we will be able to do that.
TAPPER: A lot of people didn't find the apology as particularly sincere. First off, he said he apologized if anyone was offended, as opposed to apologizing for his actions. And then in his tape, his videotape, after saying he was sorry, he pivoted and started -- he called the tape a distraction and started attacking the Clintons. That's not really contrition, right? I mean, you are a devout Christian. That wouldn't pass the test at your church.
SANDERS: Well, actually I think it would. I mean, a big part of getting forgiveness is asking for it. And that's the very first step as a Christian. And I think that's what he did by coming out in front of the American people, in his own voice, in his own person. He said in front of a camera and he asked the American people and said, I was wrong and I apologize. I'm not really sure how else you can admit fault there than the way he did it. And to ask for forgiveness not only from the American people but from women. I know he talked to his wife Melania. If there is any female that should be more upset than anybody, it's her. I know that they have talked about this.
TAPPER: But what about the women that he apparently assaulted? How about the women he apparently groped without their permission. Should he apologize to them?
SANDERS: And I think he did in the statement. I think that was the point of the statement. Let's not forget, too, I mean, you talked about being a Christian. Both of these candidates are flawed. There is no perfect person.
TAPPER: We are all sinners. Absolutely, we're all sinners. No question about that.
SANDERS: I think you're doing a disservice to the American people by focusing the last 30 of this election on nothing more than the flaws of the different candidates personalities, because they both have a lot, and that's not something that we can sit up here and debate. Let's not spend the next 30 days debating who did what wrong. Let's talk about the future of our country. Who is going to make it better? Who is going to help the economy? Who is going to protect our borders? Who is going to build up national security? And when we talk about those things, we know it's not Hillary Clinton because she is been trying to do it for 30 years. She has failed every single time.
TAPPER: Sarah, boasting about sexually assaulting women is not a flaw, you know.
SANDERS: I agree with that. I'm not going to defend those comments, Jake.
TAPPER: You know.
SANDERS: I agree with you wholeheartedly.
TAPPER: But I mean, I think --
SANDERS: There is nothing right. It is disgusting and wrong.
TAPPER: How many women did he do this to? Has he apologized to the women?
[16:25:00] SANDERS: Has Hillary Clinton apologized to the four American lives that were lost in Benghazi? The mistakes that Donald Trump made are horrific.
TAPPER: Hillary Clinton --
SANDERS: Hold on. Trump's mistakes are disgusting and those comments are indefensible and I won't defend them. However, none of the comments he made put national security at risk and American lives have not been lost because of the mistakes he made. The mistakes that Hillary Clinton has made have cost us American lives. If she becomes president, I can only expect that will continue to happen. That's why I continue to support Donald Trump, and I hope other Americans will, as well.
TAPPER: Sarah Huckabee Sanders, always good to see you. Thanks for being here. Good luck tonight. Hope you have a good debate.
Still ahead, Hillary Clinton will have to do some explaining of her own this evening. Answering questions about this latest email hack. And likely navigating attacks on her husband's past, as you heard. We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:29:56] TAPPER: We are live from Washington university in St. Louis. All the parents out there spending a lot of money sending these kids to school, this is what they're doing instead of studying, just so you know. They're engaged in the civic process. We're just hours away from round two of an epic dual between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Let's bring in our panel of opinion leaders. Former Philadelphia Mayor and Clinton supporter, Michael Nutter is with us, Former South Carolina Lt. Governor Trump supporter Andre Bauer, Political Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle, and Trump supporter and CNN political commentator, Jeffrey Lord.
Ah, Jeffrey let me start with you, if you were advising Mr. Trump tonight, what would you say? What should he say to address this horrific tape?
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Some version of the checker speech.
TAPPER: The Nixon of 1952?
LORD: The Nixon of 1952.
TAPPER: Ok.
LORD: Just admit your responsibility and apologize. Asking for forgiveness is good in a country with lots of god fearing people in it and then move on. And move on quickly. And get on with it.
TAPPER: One of the things that the Trump people acknowledge is not getting as much attention as they would like, because of this horrific tape, is this new WikiLeaks hack which went into the Clinton campaign files and got what they claim to be copies of her Goldman Sachs speeches. In one of them, it showed comments in 2013 about her dream open trade, an open borders, different from the policies that she is talked about on the stump. I asked Tim Kaine, her running mate, about that this morning. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But Senator, I mean, first of all, are you disputing the accuracy of this? Did Hillary Clinton not say to the Brazilian bankers that there was this dream?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PREISDENTIAL NOMINEE: Jake, I have no way of knowing the accuracy of documents dump by this hacking organization. But I think it is really important. This hacking has been connected. Much of the hacking has been connected to the Russian government. Yesterday, the director of National Intelligence indicated that this kind of hacking has been traced directly to the Russian government, and there is a direct intent to influence the outcome of an American election. If that is, in fact, true, you cannot accept as gospel truth, everything that they might put in a document, but you didn't ask about the document, but you ask me what Hillary Clinton's position was.
TAPPER: Right, that is fair. Is this document then, is it accurate? Did she tell Brazilian bankers that her dream had administered...
KAINE: I have no way of knowing that.
TAPPER: Well, you could ask her.
KAINE: But the documents are in the thousands. I haven't asked her. You asked me about her position on trade. Her position on trade is very clear.
TAPPER: What about her position on borders? She says her dream, in this document. Her dream is a hemisphere of common market with open borders. Is that something in the Clinton-Kaine administration we would see, open borders?
KAINE: We believe in comprehensive immigration reform that would, with the pillars that we've described, where we'd have more border security. Jake as you know, I voted for significant investments in border security in June of 2013 and continue to believe that's part of a comprehensive immigration reform plan, along with the value of keeping families together and providing a path to citizenship for those who work hard, play by the rules and pay taxes.
TAPPER: May I have another, if the election were in two days from now, that might cut it, but the election is about 29, 30 days from now. They'll have to come up with a better answer about whether or not the documents are real.
KAINE: Well, I think getting beyond whether they're real or not and all the hacking, et cetera, that is what debates are for. That is what a campaign is for. First of all, Hillary Clinton's position on trade, on immigration, on the security of our borders is very, very clear and has been clear for a long time. Or you can go to the website and read about it. Or assume someone is probably going to ask about it, this evening. So we can hear it directly from Secretary Clinton, as opposed to bits and pieces of hacked documents. Why don't we just ask her?
TAPPER: I don't think, well, that is what I suggested to the vice president -- or would be vice president, so I might I ask it tonight.
KAINE: Yes, I guess, I mean, Andre, this issue of trade is one of the issues -- and immigration, these are issues that Donald Trump has been able to win over a lot of white working class voters, appealing to them, saying that she wants open borders and that she is a free trade trader. That she'll sell out their jobs for trade. These documents, I suspect, are going to be a major Trump campaign talking point from now until Election Day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Well, they should be. You know, they also see in her speeches where she says, look, you got to have one public and one private position. And her positions don't line up with what she talked about, she is clearly told a group of voters one thing, but then done something else. Or gone to a group of funders and said, well I really am going to do something vastly different. Whether you look at TPP or whether you look at immigration, there is a multitude of things and a track record that don't meet the rhetoric. And so there are question out there, that question tonight is, is can Trump effectively expose those, much like Mike Pence did, or is he going to let her get under his skin? Patti?
[16:35:12] PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, POLITICAL CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Look, I think the -- before the video of Donald Trump saying those horrible things, the pressure on him to perform well tonight was severe. He was, you know, lagging in the polls. But the bar was still pretty low for him. Basically, all he needed to do to perform well was not take the bait that Hillary Clinton was offering and to stay on message.
I think now, the bar post video is sky high for him. He is going to have to be pitched perfect on his apology. And also, prove that he is fit to be president of the United States of America. That is a difficult thing for a really good, experienced politician. For someone like him, I think it is almost impossible. So I don't think that the WikiLeaks is really going to make a huge impact tonight.
TAPPER: Jeffrey, do you think the fact that these leaks came, in all likelihood, because of hacks by the Russian government or directly on some way, do you think that affects how voters hear the information?
LORD: No. I think that anything, you know -- thinking back to the video of her health problem there, it doesn't matter who took it or who did it.
TAPPER: She had pneumonia.
LORD: Right, right. The fact that they exist, like Edward Snowden, I mean everybody wants to discuss Edward Snowden. The fact of the matter is things are out there for better or worse. I would argue worse. And in this case, I don't think it matters. I mean, it is a separate issue, as to who did it. But the fact she said whatever in the WikiLeaks that is what's going to count.
TAPPER: All right, guys. Stay with me, up next, my one-on-one interview with Rudy Giuliani from this morning. He is the Senior Adviser to Donald Trump, he tries to defend Trump's remarks that were caught on tape, he said man at times talk like that, that interview coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Thanks for joining me. I'm Jake Tapper and I'm live from Washington University. Wash U, Washington University here in St. Louis, the site of tonight's CNN presidential town hall style debate. The big issue of course, looming over tonight's debate, like (inaudible) is the fallout over Donald Trump vulgar remarks about women, it surfaced in a 2005 video tape that "The Washington Post" broke on Friday afternoon. Earlier today on CNN State of the Union, I spoke with Trump surrogate and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani about those remarks. Giuliani tried to defend them, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:40:23] TAPPER: He went on attack against the Clintons, and I think a lot of people thought, boy, this doesn't feel like an apology to me.
RUDY GIULIANI, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, first of all, it was an apology. That was -- he definitely apologized. I know from talking to him that he genuinely feels very sorry about this. It's certainly not the views that he holds today. He is run for public office. He spent the last year and a half traveling around the country. He realizes the responsibility that he has to the people that follow him and believe that we have to make a change in the country.
TAPPER: He is talking about actions that are sexual assault. And he was 59 or 60 years old when he said it. This wasn't something that he said when he was 18 years old. He is talking about a feeling of entitlement, because he is a star. He can go up to women and grab them by the vagina and it's ok, he won't get in trouble for it. It's really offensive on just a basic human level.
GIULIANI: Yes, it is.
TAPPER: Who did he do that to?
GIULIANI: Well, first of all, I don't know that he did it to anyone. This is talk. Gosh almighty, you know, he who hasn't sinned, throw the first stone here. I know some of these people dropping...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I will gladly tell you, Mr. Mayor, I have never said that. I have never done that. I'm happy to throw a stone. I don't know any man, I've have been in locker rooms. I've been a member of a fraternity. I've never heard any man ever brag about being able to mull women, because they get away with it, never.
GIULIANI: We have taken it to an extra degree. But any of them, an extra degree of what he said, but the fact is that men, at times, talk like that. Not all men, but men do.
TAPPER: You've talked like that?
GIULIANI: He is wrong for doing it. I am not justifying it. I believe it's wrong. I know he believes it's wrong. I believe that this is not the man that we are talking about today. And maybe the reference to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton is the fact that you're really upset about this, but gosh almighty, there were awful lot of things, particularly Hillary Clinton attacking the women who Bill Clinton sexually assaulted, sexually abused, and she was the leader of the attack against them. So maybe he felt that that at least put in context, the kind of anger there would be at him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Mayor Giuliani told us that we can expect another apology from Donald Trump when he and Hillary Clinton face off this evening here at Wash U in St. Louis. I'm back with my full panel now. Donald Trump remaining defiant today, he tweeted, "So many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers and elections go down." So, I suppose, the question David, what does that suggest about how he is going to deal with this not just this evening, but over the next month?
GERGEN: A short, I suggest, a very short contrition and a very long attack. You know, I think he is clearly, you know, the man has been brooding and sort of had a lot of grievances inside. And he is just angry at the world right now. And I think we're going to see that come out tonight. He is going to try bridal the adviser - try to bridal it. But I don't think he can help himself on that.
TAPPER: And the truth of the matter is, as they say campaigns are great tests for the presidency. David Axelrod like to see it, the campaign as an MRI for the soul, you see who people are. This is a crisis for his campaign. This is not a crisis for United States of America and how he handles this is going to say something about on how he would be president.
LORD: Sure, they say a lot of people are going to look on it that way, now, I also think that there is backlash building here on this. A lot of people feel that establishment, how are you going to describe the establishment, the political class, the media writ large, are out to bring him down. And whoever leaked this in the first place was of a mind to do just that, and all the rest follows in place. And I know that there are a lot of people that believe that. And furthermore, they also believe that if he were not the nominee and were any of the other 16 candidates, some version of this would be happening to them.
But this is a standard that goes at least back to Goldwater, when they said, once he was done being nominated the week of the convention CBS reported on air with (Inaudible), that he was going to Germany and he is going to stay in Adolph Hitler's old house. I mean, truly, it all matters till the day he died, he was mad about that.
BORGER: Wouldn't you argue that if this were not Donald Trump, any other candidate would be gone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
LORD: Somebody on twitter id, what would it be for Marco Rubio? He paid a water bill late in 1985.
LORD: Right. I mean, he had the credit card issue, in the Florida state.
SOLIS DOYLE: Right.
LORD: I'm falling asleep even saying it.
(LAUGHTER)
[16:45:00] BORGER: Don't forget, this is an avalanche that is of Donald Trump's some making, and that started weeks ago when you talked about Alicia Machado, a bad debate, Alicia Machado, the question about his income taxes not releasing his taxes, how many taxes does he pay? Then you get to the video tape. So there is this kind of drip, drip.
MICHAEL NUTTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Gloria is right. And Jake, to Jeff's point, everything that the Trump folks complain about, this, you know this vast, I guess now left-wing conspiracy, against Donald Trump are all self-inflicted. Every one of his challenges, every one of his problems is inflicted on himself by himself. He said that. And to the former mayor's point, real men don't talk like that. They don't talk about women in that way. They don't let someone call their daughter a piece of.
TAPPER: A-s-s, right.
NUTTER: Whatever, right? Real men don't do that. He has to owned that, accept that and acknowledge it, it's his own fault.
LORD: To answer at Gloria's point, the flip side of that Gloria is, what Republicans like about Donald Trump is that he fights back.
BORGER: Yes.
LORD: They believe that Mitt Romney, John McCain and a whole string of these people get attacked thusly, and then, they more or less just wimp out on the thing.
TAPPER: Go ahead.
RESTON: That is why this format tonight will be so fascinating, because he is not in front of his adoring crowds when he is going to have to explain this for the first time. He is going to be in front of undecided voters. We're going to see tons of reaction shots. I mean this is a very difficult task that he has ahead of himself tonight, to both recover from the first debate, and explain why people should still vote for him after the tape.
TAPPER: And Andre, one of the things that might be interesting is whether voters are asking about this or whether or not they're asking about how they're going to pay off their student loans and how they're going to get a job when the factory closes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TAPPER: And how they're going to afford health care.
ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LT. GOVERNOR TRUMP SUPPORTER: And Hillary Clinton has a lot of practice at this. I was reading she is done about 60 of these around the world. And she is taken unbelievable questions, and she is been very good at responding to them. This is Donald Trump's chance to get things back on track. I mean, really, he has got to watch, how he rolls his eyes, how he carries himself. Does he really show empathy? He is got to be the salesman that he is been so long. Tonight is the tonight. He is on primetime and he has got to make it happen.
TAPPER: Mark, can he do it? Can he step it up?
PRESTON: I've done several town halls with Donald Trump. He has a very difficult time actually interacting with the audience. Not that he is hostile toward them, but it's not what he does on a regular basis. And oftentimes, like tonight, for instance, let's put aside what he actually says. Let's see how his body language is. Let's see if he gets out of the chair, let's see if he approaches the person who asks the question and tries to connect to them, much like Bill Clinton did. Not that Hillary Clinton is fantastic.
RESTON: No, I don't think she is going...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESTON: No, no I don't think she is better than he is.
SOLIS DOYLE: I think this format is really going to be a test for Donald Trump, because if he gets really tough questions from the audience members, real voters, it is going to be very hard for him to go to his go-to excuse for doing poorly. And that is that the moderators were tougher on me than Hillary. He is going to be talking with real voters this time, not journalists.
GERGEN: I'm going to come back to this, Jake, it is much as this is a challenge for Donald Trump and it is not totally for Hillary Clinton. There is a reason they've said it off the air last, since Friday morning, because they wanted to wait for this tonight, for everybody to see this. And she got a chance to go from five or six points up and almost doubling that if she does well tonight, so this a major opportunity for her and possibly take back the senate through this. And if she does that, she can govern much more effectively. That is the name of the game.
BORGER: And what she is going to try to do, I'm told, is trying and actually bring this to a conversation we haven't had much in the past, which is how is this going to affect you? How is this election going to affect you? And voters, I would presume, are going to be asking questions about how this election will affect them. Their pocketbook, who is better equipped to handle the fight on terror? You know, they can fight about each other all they want, but I think the person who is going to do well in this debate is the one who can make the case to the American people that they're actually listening to their concerns.
NUTTER: Like a normal, rational, insane person.
BORGER: I know, and we haven't had that.
NUTTER: We have discussions, with real people.
BORGER: That is why...
RESTON: Isn't it Bill Clinton that did these pivots, better than anyone? You can talk about these issues by I want to talk about you.
BORGER: That is why she is going to turn everything about this videotape into a question about whether he is got the temperament and the steadiness and the ability to govern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring it back to the people who asking the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BORGER: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill was good at that.
TAPPER: We shall see, thank you, all. Appreciate it, stay with CNN for tonight's presidential town hall, hosted by Anderson Cooper, ABC News Martha Raddatz. The two candidate will face off at 9:00 p.m. Eastern -- 8:00 p.m. here in beautiful St. Louis. We'll be right back.
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[16:54:00] TAPPER: Welcome back. The presidential candidates are facing off later today here in St. Louis. And in a few hours, it's going to look a little different than most debates. No standing behind podiums this evening. It is the town hall format, with questions not only from the moderators, but from people in the audience, actual voters, could be a looser event, considered more personal.
And that setting does not suit every candidate. Joining me live from Baltimore, former Maryland Governor and one-time Democratic candidate for president, Martin O'Malley, Governor O'Malley thanks for joining us, we appreciate it. You have faced Hillary Clinton on the debate stage. Talk about the town hall format and talk about whether you think Hillary Clinton, what you think about her performances as a debater, having faced off against her several times.
MARTIN O'MALLEY, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, I found Hillary Clinton to be a very formidable debater. I mean, she is -- has such a command of the issues. And I think tonight, it is a huge opportunity for her. There has been so much throughout this campaign about Donald Trump and not about, and not enough about us, namely, moms and dads around their kitchen table, trying to figure out how they're going to pay their bills, how they're going to send their kids to college.
I think Hillary Clinton has an opportunity tonight really to make this about us. Sure, she'll have to rebut thing that Donald Trump says, but she can make this about the second half of our economic recovery, which is making wages go up for families across the United States. I think she is going to do very well. This is a huge opportunity for her.
[16:55:33] TAPPER: Given that you think that she should focus on the voters and their needs, health care, jobs, the economy, college tuition, student loans, et cetera, how do you think that she should fit in, if at all, her response to the remarks that came out on that tape of Donald Trump's from 2005?
O'MALLEY: Well, she is a person who certainly does not retire or back away from this sort of disgusting behavior, that super predator, braggadocious. I think she will address that square on and she must. This is a watershed moment for Republicans across the country. Any Republican that sails to repudiate Donald Trump's super predator braggadocious is not going to have a future in the new Republican Party.
TAPPER: I want to ask you, you were very critical of Hillary Clinton when it came to her coziness with Wall Street during the primaries. And this WikiLeaks hack of her speeches to Goldman Sachs, at least that was what it reports to be, suggests that she is saying things to Wall Street Bankers that are quite different from the rhetoric she uses on the campaign trail. Right now, the campaign strategy from the Clinton team seems to be call into question whether the documents are real. Once they get past that stage, how do you think she should respond?
O'MALLEY: Well, look, we had a vigorous debate in the Democratic Party about the Wall Street crash and who was responsible. I think that most everybody assumed that because she did not release the transcripts of those remarks that they won't terribly be shocked that they say things that purported to say by these Russian hackers.
But secondly, I do believe that people understand that this election is about the future and not about the past. And I also believe that people are starting to wake up to the fact that Russians are trying to interfere with this election, break into the DNC headquarters, break into her campaign, and I think that is actually going to be a bigger story than what Hillary Clinton said to Wall Street interests that everybody knows she represented for years.
TAPPER: One of the things she says though in one of the documents is, if everybody's watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So you need both the public and a private position. Isn't that exactly what so many Democrats, especially Bernie Sanders supporters and Martin O'Malley supporters, didn't care for about Hillary Clinton?
O'MALLEY: Well, yeah, sure. I mean, I'm not smart enough to have a public and private position myself. But I do believe that we're down now to two candidates. Hillary Clinton is not running against the almighty. She is running against the alternative, who admitted and bragged about sexually assaulting women and who was the most unqualified candidate that the Republican Party has ever put forward.
So look, I think also one other thing, Jake, is I think it is hard to establish a standard for openness and transparency against an opponent like Donald Trump, whose received millions from the Russian regime for his business interests, and refuses to even release his tax returns. So this is down to a contest between two candidates. And clearly, Hillary Clinton is superior to this other guy.
TAPPER: You spent a lot of time in Iowa as a candidate for president. Right now polls have Donald Trump winning in Iowa. What is your message to those Iowans who clearly think that Donald Trump will be more of a voice, more of a populous voice for them, than Hillary Clinton will be?
O'MALLEY: Jake, I've lost you. TAPPER: All right. Governor O'Malley, I apologize if we're having
problem with our sound systems it happens in live TV so much. Somebody will convey to you, thank you very much, appreciate it. Stay with CNN for tonight's presidential town hall, hosted by Anderson Cooper and also Martha Raddatz. The two candidates will face off at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. We are going to take a quick break and will be right back.
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