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The Lead with Jake Tapper
New Biden Gaffe Prompts Discussion About Facts in Trump Era; $2 Billion Bail Bond Industry Accused Of Preying On Poor; Nevada's Area 51 Bracing For Earthling Invasion. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired August 30, 2019 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Outside of his immediate family, if you cross him there is -- in his mind, there is no coming back, no matter -- to Seung Min's point, no matter how close you are.
[16:30:05] BILL KRISTOL, CONSERVATIVE WRITER: But they typically often do try to keep these people sort of loyal. I mean, so --
CILLIZZA: So they don't tell the story.
KRISTOL: Keith Schiller, who's the body man all those years, he's on a $15,000 a month contract with the RNC. Other people --
CILLIZZA: They move into the campaign.
KRISTOL: Other people have been treated well. They got speaking gigs.
(CROSSTALK)
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We love the intrigue.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: I know, I know. We got a lot to love, and I do agree, I will put in a shameless plug for "Succession".
CILLIZZA: Yes.
BASH: All right. More scrutiny after Joe Biden mixes up a campaign trail tale, but one top Democrat is coming to his defense, saying the rules of the game have changed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:35:01] BASH: In our 2020 lead, Joe Biden is pushing back against criticism after his latest slipup on the campaign trail. But in an election where most Democrats' top priority is beating Donald Trump, do voters care about the former vice president's gaffes or not?
Jessica Dean reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, what is it that I said wrong?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Biden is standing by the story of military heroism he recently told in New Hampshire.
BIDEN: I was making the point how courageous these people are, how incredible they are. And so that -- I don't know what the problem is.
DEAN: According to "The Washington Post," Biden appeared to conflate the details of several true stories into one, when he talked about a war hero in Afghanistan.
BIDEN: This guy climbed down a ravine, carried this guy up on his back under fire and the general wanted me to pin the Silver Star on him.
I got up there and stand and it is the god's truth my word as a Biden. He stood at attention. I went to pin it on him.
He said, sir, I don't want the damn thing. Do not pint it on me, sir. Please, sir, do not do that. He died! He died!
DEAN: During a 2011 trip to Afghanistan, Biden did pin a Bronze Star on a service member who "The Post" reports did not want the medal. But he was not the same person involved in the story Biden described. "The Post" adds, quote: in the space of three minutes, Biden got the time period, the location, the heroic act, the type of medal, the military branch and the rank of the recipient wrong, as well as his own role in the ceremony.
BIDEN: I mean, what is the gaffe when I said there was a young man I tried to pin a medal on and he said, I don't want it, sir, he died, he died, he died.
DEAN: The former vice president who described himself as a gaffe machine has maintained his front-runner status despite verbal stumbles.
Biden's misstatement sparking a conversation about truth in the era of Trump who's made more than 12,000 false or misleading claims since taking office, according to "The Post."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN: As for the Biden campaign, they are casting this latest misstatement as a moment of authenticity. The deputy campaign manager tweeting the final lines of the story from "The Post" in which the service member who was awarded the medal said of Biden, quote, he has that look where his eyes can see into your eyes. I felt like he really understood -- Dana.
BASH: Jessica, thank you so much for that report.
Back around the table.
Not to bring up, you know, wounds that have now healed but when you were in the White House, you had worked for somebody who made a mistake and became known for it. It was baked in. I'm talking potato and Dan Quayle.
KRISTOL: Right.
BASH: So you have experience with this.
KRISTOL: Whenever people say, not to bring up something --
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: Remember, our kids would always say no offense. They are about to say something really damaging.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Real horrible.
KRISTOL: Go right ahead, Dana.
BASH: But the reason I'm asking because you have experience with dealing with a major figure for whom a narrative is built. How does this --
KRISTOL: So, I mean, I think the good news for Biden is he's not saying this to exaggerate his own role. You know, he doesn't make himself a hero of the story. He's sort of a bystander and he's praising, authentically praising the 9/11 generation and these kids who are heroic. So in that respect he doesn't come off as a bad person or self-aggrandizing type.
On the other hand, if you get it wrong, you should just say, hey, you know what, I conflated two stories, they're both so emotional, you know, our kids are so -- our soldiers are so wonderful, but I'll get straight in the future. Instead, he seems to have said, I think today, was it, in the response to what --
FINNEY: He doubled down on it. Yes.
KRISTOL: Yes, he sort of doubled down on it, and said, I don't think I said anything wrong. That's a little hard to take a position I think.
BASH: I want to listen to what your former boss at the DNC, Howard Dean, said about this earlier today.
FINNEY: Uh-oh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, if the voters can forgive Donald Trump being corrupt and feathering his own nest with money, they can certainly forgive Joe Biden a few lapses of memory. I mean, I think Trump has lowered the bar so much. I do think the rules of the game have changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: Yes. This would be a time when I would have a conversation with him after the fact to say, here is the problem -- it will matter to voters to -- up until the point it starts to matter for -- you know, there is a lot of this stuff that we follow very closely where I think it is nuance and people are maybe following it that closely. What you said though, the problem becomes when it is a pattern. And then people are asking themselves, well, did he forget, was he embellishing?
And in a general election, what I would worry about is, when you are going up against a man who lies prolifically all of the time, I would worry that it would take away one of our best arguments as Democrats against Trump. If we have to -- if I have to worry about how I'm going to correct misstatements on our side, it makes it harder then to make the argument, well, the president is a liar.
BASH: And what the Biden people are saying -- I talked to somebody this morning is sort of a different version of that, as you could imagine, but it makes sense, which is this is the way that the former vice president has always been.
[16:40:04] It's not an age thing. He tells stories and maybe sometimes he doesn't get the details exactly right but it is authentically him. And that it is baked in and that is the difference between they argue between him and Trump is this is authentically who he is and coming out of a place of goodness and not malicious.
CILLIZZA: I'm sure Donald Trump will take it from that good and not malicious place.
FINNEY: Yes.
CILLIZZA: Yes, I think that's true, Dana. I mean, look at Joe Biden's entire political life. The guy himself acknowledged, I'm a gaffe machine before he announced.
BASH: In fact, we have that. We could put it up on the screen. Go ahead.
CILLIZZA: There we go.
BASH: I'm a gaffe machine.
CILLIZZA: It is true. I mean, this is -- he -- this is who he is. That also doesn't mean that that's not potentially a problem for him.
One other quick thing, there is -- it is not equal -- Donald Trump's 12,000 plus lies and misstatements and Joe Biden conflating what sounds like two or three remembrances at the same time just because Donald Trump doesn't tell the truth all of the time doesn't mean that that isn't potentially a problem for Joe Biden as it relates to authenticity or providing, to Karen's point, a clear choice.
They are not equal. It doesn't mean one doesn't matter.
FINNEY: That's right.
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And, I mean, the gaffes aside, it is pretty remarkable how despite all of the arrows that Joe Biden has taken since he entered the race in April, just how resilient he still has been. I mean, so he makes verbal errors and conflates details of stories.
And he's taken hits from his -- from the other candidates of the race. He's flip-flopped on the Hyde Amendment. He's gotten attacked on trade. He's gotten attacked over the busing issue, the crime bill, and yet he still remains at the top of the polls that indicates for now that the ability to beat Trump seems to be at the foremost -- front and foremost of voters' minds at this point.
BASH: All right. Thanks everybody. Great conversation. Sorry, Bill.
(LAUGHTER)
BASH: Up next, a CNN investigation. One woman's struggle with a billion dollar industry in what critics call a tax on the poor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:00] BASH: A CNN investigation now uncovering how the billion- dollar bail bond industry preys on those who can least afford it in their most desperate times. some critics call it an effective tax on the poor. As CNN's Drew Griffin reports trying to pay off the debt has left some people in dire financial straits well after the charges are dropped.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Baltimore's poorer neighborhoods, it can take just one arrest to send a family spiraling into debt.
ALICE HUGHES, IN DEBT TO BAIL COMPANY: It started with a phone call.
GRIFFIN: Alice Hughes got the phone call from her nephew from jail. He was under arrest. The charges, marijuana, violating a protective order. The Bail was set at $75,000.
HUGHES: All I was thinking about was getting him out.
GRIFFIN: The bail bondsman wanted ten percent to get her nephew out of jail. Hughes gave all the cash she had $700 and co-signed a loan payment plan for the rest. Defendants who used their own money for bail get the money back from the court if they show up to court.
But bail companies don't give anything to the court. They take that ten percent as a service fee. A fee people like Alice Hughes must pay no matter the outcome of her nephew's case.
Guilty or not?
HUGHES: Guilty or not guilty. Whether I committed the crime or not.
GRIFFIN: Whether your nephew committed the crime or not.
VERYL POW, ATTORNEY OF ALICE HUGHES: That is correct. GRIFFIN: Veryl Pow is Alice Hughes' attorney who says people who can't afford to pay bond get a raw deal.
POW: They are forced between three impossible choices. One, they could remain in jail during the pendency of the criminal case which could take months or even years, two, they could plead guilty, or three they could go to a bail bondsman, but this third option is not as simple as it sounds.
GRIFFIN: Is this ruining people's lives?
POW: Absolutely. The scale of this bail industry is massive.
GRIFFIN: The bail bond industry takes in roughly $2 billion every year according to the American Civil Liberties Union, almost exclusively on the backs of the poor. But if the purpose of money bail is to make defendants return to court for trial, study after study shows it's hardly the most effective. The result, the cash bail system in the United States is little more than a tax on the poor for being arrested.
CHERISE FANNO BURDEEN, CEO PRETRIAL JUSTICE INSTITUTE: The vast majority of people who are being detained pending trial have been legally released by the courts if just had money bond set and have been unable to make them.
GRIFFIN: 65 percent of people sitting in jails right now are not convicted. They're just awaiting trial. Many trapped by the unaffordable price of their release. Cherise Fanno Burdeen with the Pretrial Justice Institute says those sitting in jail who have jobs will also almost assuredly lose them.
BURDEEN: And what research shows us is that someone who loses their job, loses their source of income, then loses their housing and destabilizes their family is more likely in the future to get in trouble.
GRIFFIN: Across the U.S., state after state is beginning to recognize the inequality and the damage being done by cash bail systems. And while a CNN review has found many states have been successful, in nine states covering more than a third of the population, the powerful bail industry has derailed, stalled, or killed reforms.
Maryland made reforms in 2017 releasing more defendants without having to pay for bail. But the change came too late for Alice Hughes and her nephew. He was arrested in 2014. Those charges against him eventually went away but her debt to pay the bail has never gone away. In fact, it has grown.
After her nephew failed to keep up with payments, the bonds company sued her for the debt plus interest and fees that now total nearly $8,700. Her wages at work are being garnished.
[16:50:34] HUGHES: They're taking $130.00 and some odd cents per pay. And from what I understand, it will go on until they collect. GRIFFIN: Because of accruing interest, Alice Hughes may never be able
to pay it off all over the arrest of a man in Baltimore who couldn't pay his bail.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Then a bail industry spokesperson insisted the bail bondsman aren't really the bad guys, they're just providing a service to those who are arrested. As for Alice Hughes, she is suing her bail bond company part of a class-action lawsuit. Dana?
BASH: Drew Griffin, another excellent and important story on the bail bond industry. I appreciate that. And some two million people have RSVP'd online to meet up in the middle of nowhere. We'll talk to the man behind the internet meme that took off and had the FBI asking questions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:55:00] BASH: And in our "OUT OF THIS WORLD LEAD," President Trump this week is heralding the official launch of the U.S. Space Command prepared to tackle the challenges beyond this planet. But thousands of people plan to take matters into their own hands convinced the answers to what's really out there are hidden in the middle of the United States as CNN Nick Watt reports from area 51.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Storm area 51, read Matthew Roberts' Facebook post, they can't stop all of us.
MATTY ROBERTS, CREATOR, STORM AREA 51: It's completely intended to be a joke. I didn't expect it to go anywhere.
WATT: But it has.
ROBERTS: It has. It's gone everywhere.
WATT: Two million people now claim they're coming here September 20. One recent online survey found 54 percent of Americans believe the government knows more than they're telling us.
ROBERTS: That's very imperative about my post. Everybody thinks there's something in there.
WATT: Here's issue number one. Nearest civilization is Rachel, Nevada, population 52, little more than the Little A'Le'Inn, a restaurants seating for 40, ten bedrooms.
Part of you must be thinking, OK, this is going to be great for business.
CONNIE WEST, OWNER, LITTLE A'LE'INN: Absolutely.
WATT: And part is like --
WEST: Terrified. WATT: She's scrambling to arrange enough food, security, and free
water, the desert heat. Issue number two, an Air Force spokesperson tell CNN any attempt to illegally access military installations or military training areas is dangerous.
WEST: And you don't want your parents to have the burry you. I shouldn't have said that.
WATT: That is a gate into Area 51. Plenty of warning signs, plenty of cameras that are following every single move we make. And we were here, less than five minutes in a white pickup truck did just appear as if out of nowhere. It's the closest I ever need to get to Area 51, I think.
Robert says the FBI has already come (INAUDIBLE).
ROBERTS: They knocked on the door, man. They just kind of sat down and chatted with me for a little bit just to see what kind of guy I was, making sure I'm not building pipe bombs in the living room or something.
WATT: They're now trying to turn this into more of a music festival.
ROBERTS: I'm trying to advocate against the storming as much as I can. I'm trying -- I just want a gathering of all these weirdos in the desert.
WATT: The CIA tested the U2 Spy Plane here back in the 1950s and many believers believe they also keep captured alien life forms and reverse engineer downed alien craft starting with the Roswell wreckage in the 40s. Conspiracy theories fueled by this base worker interviewed back in '89.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The power sources and anti-matter reactor.
WATT: And suspicious sightings ever since.
WEST: I've seen a lot of strange things in the sky that you can't really identify.
WATT: The Air Force claims the 60 secrets of square miles are used for Earthling aircraft testing. That's it. This esteemed astronomer agrees.
SETH SHOSTAK, SENIOR ASTRONOMER, SETI: So clearly, there are aliens out there. I think that that's a pretty strong argument. But we don't have the proof of that and I don't think that it's stacked up in Southern Nevada. Honestly, I don't.
WATT: Roberts best estimate, 20,000 people will actually show up here in the desert next month. Some are hoping to find out if there's really anything in there. All dreaming there really is something out there.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WATT: This place is hot, dry, remote, nearest gas station 50 miles that way, nearest hospital about 100 miles that way. The sheriff says they're going to bring in officers down here from across Nevada, hoping to prevent alien stock from descending into a dehydrated chaos.
BASH: Nick Watt, what an amazing story. I have a question. Did you stay at the Little A'Le'Inn?
WATT: We did. It was very pleasant, quite noisy because there are crickets in the bedroom. Apart from that, pretty good.
BASH: Of course there were because you're Rachel, Nevada population 52. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for watching.
