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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ); Trump Fires National Security Adviser John Bolton. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired September 10, 2019 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: And electricity is being cut off in the area as a safety precaution because of high power lines there. No word yet on any injuries.

And that is it for me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: I guess maybe he really should have shaved that mustache after all.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Breaking news today: National Security Adviser John Bolton has been shown the door, and President Trump is not giving him a soft landing. What we're learning about the fierce divisions between Bolton and the president. And what now for the security of our country?

Also breaking now, fresh new CNN polls making their debut on THE LEAD and showing President Trump may be losing his biggest selling point for reelection.

Plus, new CNN exclusive reporting on President Trump shunning foreign spies for the U.S. -- why the president thinks it is a bad idea having secret informants so close to enemies such as, say, Vladimir Putin.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start in the politics lead, and President Trump today firing his national security adviser, Ambassador John Bolton. The two had a long, well-documented history of disagreeing on matters, all the way up to today, when the two had different takes on how Bolton ended up on the wrong side of the White House fence.

The president tweeting in part -- quote -- "I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions."

According to John Bolton's tweet, which came 12 minutes later -- quote -- "I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, let's talk about it tomorrow."

The news came just before a White House briefing that Bolton was scheduled to attend. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who both reportedly clashed with Bolton behind the scenes, were notably all smiles at this briefing.

A source close to the administration tells me that Bolton's exit is the result of -- quote -- "an administration with dysfunctional processes and bureaucracy, one that attracts people who are willing make the big compromise to work for Trump, so they are especially cutthroat. It is a real snake pit."

And it is run by -- quote -- "an erratic president who is hard to manage and who brings out the worst sensibilities in people."

Add it all up and the source says -- quote -- "John Bolton standing for principles, such as it's a bad idea to invite the Taliban to Camp David, well, he didn't have a chance."

CNN's Kaitlan Collins starts us off now from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For John Bolton, the firing came via Twitter, as President Trump announced today he informed his national security adviser his services are no longer needed at the White House.

But in a surreal moment 12 minutes later, Bolton denied he was fired, tweeting: "I offered to resign last night and President Trump said let's talk tomorrow."

Bolton was seen by CNN cameras outside of the West Wing this morning, after sources said he got into a bitter disagreement with Trump the night before.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The alternative was the White House, and you wouldn't have been happy with that either.

COLLINS: They argued over the president's decision to host Taliban leaders at Camp David, a meeting Trump later canceled.

HOGAN GIDLEY, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: John Bolton's priorities and policies just don't line up with the president's.

COLLINS: Bolton's pushback to inviting the Taliban on U.S. soil and allegedly telling reporters about his feelings after may have been the last straw, with one source telling CNN the leaking is what got him.

But in recent weeks, Bolton had found himself isolated from the president, iced out by the chief of staff, and barely speaking to the secretary of state.

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There were many times Ambassador Bolton and I disagreed. That's to be sure.

COLLINS: Bolton was expected to be at this afternoon's briefing, alongside Mike Pompeo and Steven Mnuchin.

STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The president's view of the Iraq War and Ambassador Bolton's was very different.

COLLINS: But after the president's tweet, a White House official said Bolton is no longer in the building.

TRUMP: I like conflict. I like having two people with different points of view.

COLLINS: Trump once claimed he likes the chaos of a West Wing with multiple opinions, but he grew irritated by Bolton's hard-line positions in recent weeks.

TRUMP: I actually temper John, which is pretty amazing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, the president says he's going to announce his fourth national security adviser next week. Until then, Bolton's deputy, Charlie Kupperman, will over the National Security Counsel.

But I do want to flag one other bit of reporting that we got that may have shown that Bolton was on the way out. Apparently, when they were at the G7 summit in France just a few weeks ago, he was tentatively scheduled to be on some of the Sunday shows defending the administration's policies.

But sources tell CNN that Bolton was uncomfortable and didn't want to go on to defend some of the president's policies, including on Russia, which had become a big topic of the summit, though people close to Bolton said he simply thought that people like Steven Mnuchin or Larry Kudlow were better suited at defending the president's policies on tariffs.

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But, Jake, a requirement of working in this White House is you have got to be able to defend the president on television.

TAPPER: Even the president's push to have Russia back in the G7.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Joining me now is Senator Bob Menendez. He's a Democrat from New Jersey. He's the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks for joining us.

Your reaction to John Bolton being fired?

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Look, the unceremonious way that Bolton was fired adds to the dysfunctionality, the whiplash that goes on in terms of national security and foreign policy. Look at the record. This is going to be the -- upcoming, the fourth

national security adviser, the third secretary of defense, the second secretary of state, the second director of national intelligence, and the list goes on.

And so the Situation Room shouldn't be the place in which the president plays his reality TV show of "The Apprentice." So it is very hard for our foreign policy and national security, both with allies, as well as sending messages to our adversaries, by the dysfunctionality that the president has in the White House.

I'm no fan of John Bolton. He's bellicose in some of his views, but you need a national security adviser who is willing to give you alternative views and other realities, and not just yes-men, in such a critical position.

TAPPER: Well, I want to ask you about Bolton specifically, because one of your colleagues, a Republican senator who declined to be named, told CNN that Republican senators -- quote -- "clung" to people like Bolton on Capitol Hill, relying on him to know what is really going on at the White House, seeing him, I suppose, as a non-sycophant, a grownup, one of the proverbial guardrails.

What do you think?

MENENDEZ: Well, clearly, although I don't agree with many of Ambassador Bolton's views, and he has a bit of a bellicose way about him in terms of foreign policy and national security, but he was a voice that would give alternative realities -- or real realities to the president for his consideration.

And I know that, in many choices, for example, like the precipitous move in Syria, which would have left those who fought alongside with us in the lurch, that voices like his were also surrounded by members of the Senate who felt that this was a disaster in the making.

So I think there are those, particularly on the Republican side, who felt that he was some sort of stability in terms of foreign policy. There are many on my side of the aisle who thinks that actually he was a bit of a warmonger.

But what this says more -- I think it's less about Bolton and more about the president. The president has no stability in terms of national security and foreign policy. He just cut his legs from his Afghan envoy. His Middle East peace envoy just left. He's got nobody with Kim Jong-un to deal with.

And so it's a disaster, at a time that we have some of the most challenging foreign policy scenarios in the world that I have seen in nearly 30 years.

TAPPER: I know you disagree with Bolton on a lot, but there are areas where I imagine you do have some agreement.

Bolton was skeptical of the president meeting with Kim Jong-un, skeptical of the president's offer to have a no-strings-attached meeting with the Iranian President Rouhani. He was against the Taliban being invited to Camp David.

I wonder what this might mean for the administration going forward when it comes to policy and when it comes to people in the president's inner circle who are willing to say, you know what, Mr. President, that's a bad idea.

MENENDEZ: I think those people are few and far between, if there are any left in this administration.

I think the only way you survive in this administration is by saying, yes, Mr. President, even if you believe it's a horrible idea, including for the national security and interests of the United States and its people.

And so that's one of the challenges of this administration. The reality is, is that this is why I believe that Congress, under its Article 1 role, is more important than ever before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the House Foreign Relations Committee, the Intelligence Committees, the Armed Services Committee, need to have a robust, vigilant role using their Article 1 authorities to try to pursue a foreign policy that the administration ultimately will -- will limit the risks that they pose in terms of U.S. foreign policy and national security interests.

TAPPER: Oil prices fell almost immediately after Trump tweeted about Bolton.

Why do you think that is? What other ramifications might this have?

MENENDEZ: Well, I think that those who believe that Ambassador Bolton was an advocate of, for example, the potential of an attack on Iran because of its nuclear program, and the instability that that would create in the region, maybe those -- there are views that now there's less of a bellicose view as it relates to Iran and the region.

[16:10:04]

I would assume that that's speculation on their part, and that's why some of the prices fell.

TAPPER: All right, Democratic Senator Bob Menendez of the Garden State, New Jersey, thanks so much. Appreciate it, sir.

MENENDEZ: Thank you.

TAPPER: Should Republican lawmakers be concerned about Bolton's departure? The former Republican chair of the House Intelligence Committee will join me next.

Then, we have got some more breaking news, brand-new CNN polls about President Trump and how the American people view him, ones -- these polls may show that he's losing his proverbial trump card for 2020.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:15:07]

TAPPER: And we're back with breaking news in the politics lead. John Bolton out as President Trump's national security adviser. You might recall our reporting two years ago when a different official had been offered the job of national security adviser, retired Vice Admiral John Harward who told a friend he didn't want the job because the Trump White House seemed too chaotic. He called the offer a poop sandwich, except he didn't say poop.

I want to bring in former Republican House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers, along with Jen Psaki who was the communications director for the Obama's White House, as well as a State Department spokeswoman.

Jen, let me start with you. President Trump says he fired Bolton and Bolton is saying that he offered his resignation, all this before a White House briefing that could have made the announcement more formal and they could have done the announcement and then they could have done the briefing and then -- I mean, it's very chaotic.

JEN PSAKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No doubt, which is a reflection of the national security team. I think Trump has fired most of the senior officials he's fired via Twitter. So, that's kind of his approach of choice.

But this really does tell you something about President Trump but also something about the team. You know, I was reading a story this morning as I was thinking about this about -- from a couple of weeks ago that was about how he had been cut out of the discussions and the negotiations for months about Afghanistan, about a variety of issues.

So, he hasn't been a functioning national security adviser for sometime but without a national security adviser who's functioning, you don't have a functioning team, you don't have meetings, you don't have coordination. It's reflecting kind of the chaos that we've seen from this White House.

TAPPER: And the president obviously not taking Bolton's advice on a lot of matters. One of the most important, perhaps, the peace negotiations in Afghanistan. A source close to the administration telling me that Bolton just doesn't understand why the White House would want to hand over Afghanistan to people who stone little girls and wanted to deny them an education.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: I think this is bigger than that. And I think, yes, that is where he was on that particular -- I'm not sure Bolton had that opinion on Afghanistan.

But this was speed dating gone wrong. He came in quick. There was not a great relationship as far as a fit between Bolton's style and the president's style. And it was -- it just deteriorated pretty quickly.

And as a matter of fact, there's -- there were outside national security meetings outside of the White House with other officials, not including the national security adviser and it happened frequently. The president became more and more irritated with Bolton and all of this was -- you could kind of watch this happen. And what that tells you to me is -- and I'm concerned is that there is no process.

If there is a big event today, what -- there is normally a process established that you go through the National Security Council, you have principal deputies who collect the information, get the choices to the president for a quick decision. That process, if it's there, there is a lot of senior officials there who don't understand what that would look like.

TAPPER: Well, I'm told actually the process is dysfunctional to the point of being nonexistent in a lot of cases as you know.

ROGERS: Right.

TAPPER: Jen, a source close to CNN says that Bolton's exit was largely because of a leak about President Trump's plan to host the Taliban leaders at Camp David, a source telling CNN. There is a lot of Trump could take and leaking is not one.

Do you think it's the leak? Do you think it's just the fact that almost every single person in the world thought that inviting Taliban to Camp David was a bad idea?

PSAKI: Well, from several months ago John Bolton had been cut out of Afghan negotiations and discussions. Mike referenced sort of this outside meeting that he wasn't a part of it.

TAPPER: Right.

PSAKI: He asked to see a draft of the deal. They wouldn't show it to him. And it is always been blamed on him leaking.

So, Trump has never shown himself to be somebody who cared about what other people thought, including within his own administration but he doesn't like when people criticize him. So if he thinks that John Bolton is somebody who is criticizing his actions or tactics, I think it's much more likely that they may be leaning on this weekend and the poor decision to try to bring the Taliban, of course, to Camp David.

But I agree with Mike. I think it is much larger than that. It's been unraveling for quite sometime and it was a little bit of a convenient blame.

TAPPER: And you talk about speed-dating. I mean, Bolton is known for being more hawkish. President Trump came to office, whether or not he's covered like this is another matter, but came to office promising an end to America's forever wars, et cetera.

Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, a long time critic of Bolton told CNN, quote: The chances of war worldwide go greatly down because Bolton is gone. He has a naive view that believes we should recreate the world in our own image by toppling countries, by violent overthrow and somehow democracy will prevail. ROGERS: I think that's bunch of nonsense. I do think that Bolton's

style -- you know, you could be disagreeable or you can disagree without being disagreeable and I think that got lost in this translation there. And big personalities came in and decided that they were going to try to push the national security policy in a certain direction.

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It wasn't a collaborative process. That's where things -- that tension started to happen. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of stories about Bolton being thrown out of meetings because he was so angry at his position on certain national security issues and that's what started this deterioration and I think this last weekend was a big piece of that.

And, you know, candidly, I hope Bolton was -- at least had some input by saying this is a really bad idea. It is not just bringing the Taliban, by the way, to Camp David, which is an awful idea, but the things that they gave up to do that in the way they gave away leverage to get to the peace process, I have to tell you, is really bad policy. And that policy -- and I think you saw these differences starting to brew amongst the national security people who are left at the White House saying, hey, this is really bad. This was that spark that said I'm going to tweet and tell you don't come into the office.

TAPPER: Mr. Chairman, Jen Psaki, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

Breaking news: some new CNN polls just out this hour about President Trump that his re-election campaign may not want to hear. That's next.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: And we're back with breaking news. A brand-new CNN poll that we are unveiling right here on THE LEAD. How Americans feel about President Trump just 14 months before he faces re-election in November 2020.

There is some bad news for President Trump when it comes to his approval rating, with 39 percent approving of his handling of the presidency. And 55 percent of those polled saying they disapprove. That approval rating for President Trump is the lowest since January when Washington, D.C. was in the midst of a fight over the government shutdown.

CNN political director David Chalian joins me now with more.

And, David, where is the president's support, that 39 percent coming from? DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, Jake, this won't

surprise you, I'm sure, but Republicans are overwhelmingly driving his support. Look at that 88 percent number approval among Republicans. Where he is struggling with independents critical to his re-election chances, 34 percent approval, and, of course, Democrats, only 7 percent of Democrats approve of his job.

But take a look at how we break this down by race and gender. Approval among white men, 54 percent, Jake. It's the only category where he is majority approval. White women, 42 percent approval.

It goes down from there. Hispanics, if you look at Hispanic men, 37 percent approval. Hispanic women, 23 percent approval.

And among African-Americans he is in the cellar. Black men, 15 percent approval. Black women, 3 percent approval, Jake.

And take a look at where President Trump lines up historically. He's way down there at the bottom of the pack. Only Jimmy Carter was in worse shape at this point in his presidency. Now, some comfort perhaps for Donald Trump there is that you see Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are down there also and they went on to win re-election of course, Jake.

TAPPER: How does President Trump fair when it comes to questions about his re-election, whether he will be reelected?

CHALIAN: Jake, this number I think may send a chill down the spine of folks at Trump reelection headquarters -- 60 percent of Americans say that Donald Trump does not deserve re-election and only 36 percent says that he does.

And if you look at the issue set, Jake, as you know, the economy has always been his strong suit and it still is. He's at 48 percent. But this is the first time in seven months that he's below 50 percent even on the economy, and everything else he's down in the 30s. He can't crack 40 percent on any of the other issues we tested, Jake.

TAPPER: And as you noted, Obama was not particularly high. He was at 43 percent approval as opposed to Trump's 39 percent approval at this point in his presidency. But what overall might this say about the status of the Trump presidency given that we're just over a year away from re-election?

CHALIAN: Yes, he's clearly hurting with independents. I think that is a critical challenge for him and sort of number one item on the to- do list for him, Jake. I would also just note, though, he does have time and money, two precious resources, on his hands.

It is more than a year away until the election. While the Democrats are fighting among themselves, he's raising tons and tons of money and has the time to make his case to the American people.

TAPPER: All right. David Chalian thanks so much for that breaking news, that poll.

Let's chew on this with our experts.

Jackie, let me start with you. Your take on this? What do you think?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think the -- I mean, David mentioned a lot of this, but I think the economic numbers are interesting. The foreign trade numbers are interesting, 39 percent. These are issues the president has really staked his reputation on.

And he's really pushed to the limit when it comes to some of the biggest supporters. Farmers, for example, in Iowa and Wisconsin, these places where he really needs to win, are hurting because of his trade policy. So, that's a really interesting number.

And also the white women -- I mean, Trump won white women in 2016 and now, he's under water with them. And finally, the immigration number is interesting, 37 percent.

You know, the president really doubled down on immigration during the 2018 campaign and it didn't work out well for him. Now, he's on the ticket, the fact he really does push this issue. He's really pushing money toward the wall. I wonder how that's going to work out for him as we get closer --

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