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The Lead with Jake Tapper

President Trump Blasts Democrats, Media Over Impeachment Inquiry. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 02, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I do like the new president. You know why I like him? Because he was honest, because he said there was no pressure at all exerted on me, meaning him, by the president of the United States.

He said it. By the way, that one sentence should stop this. But he there was no pressure exerted. But you don't have to ask him. All you have to do is read the transcript, read the telephone call.

But what I was having a problem with are two things. Number one, Ukraine is known, before him, for tremendous corruption, tremendous, more than just about any country in the world. In fact, they're rated one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And I don't like giving money to a country that's that corrupt.

Number two...

QUESTION: You don't like giving money?

TRUMP: ... I said -- excuse me.

Number two, I said the following. And I said this loud and clear to everybody. And, in fact, Rob Portman backed me up, and there's nobody more honorable than Rob Portman of Ohio, because he called up: Please let the money go.

I said, Rob, I hate being the country that's always giving money, when Ukraine helps Europe and the European countries far more than they help us. They're like a wall between Russia and Europe. They're like a wall. They're a big, wide, beautiful wall.

And he said, you know what? But it's important. And he -- in fact, he came out and he said that. This was my only reason, because I don't like being the sucker country. We were the sucker country for years and years. We're not the sucker country anymore.

But I gave the money because Rob Portman and others called me and asked.

But I don't like to be the sucker. And European countries are helped far more than we are, and those countries should pay more to help Ukraine.

Ask a question, please.

QUESTION: Thank you, sir.

QUESTION: What about Mr. Biden? What did you want about Biden? What did you want him to look into on Biden?

TRUMP: Look, Biden and his son are stone-cold crooked, and you know it. His son walks out with millions of dollars. The kid knows nothing. You know it, and so do we.

Go ahead. Ask a question.

QUESTION: But the question, sir, was what did you want President Zelensky to do about Vice President Biden and his son Hunter?

TRUMP: Are you talking to me?

QUESTION: Yes, it was just a follow-up of what I just asked you, sir.

TRUMP: Listen, listen, are you ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question.

QUESTION: I have one for him. I just wanted to follow up on the one I asked you, which was, what did you want...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Did you hear me? Did you hear me? Ask him a question.

QUESTION: I will, but...

TRUMP: I have given you a long answer. Ask this gentleman a question.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Don't be rude.

QUESTION: No, sir, I don't want to be rude. I just wanted you to have a chance to answer the question that I asked you.

TRUMP: I have answered everything. It's a whole hoax.

And you know who's playing into the hoax? People like you and the fake news media that we have in this country, and I say in many cases the corrupt media, because you're corrupt.

Much of the media in this country is not just fake. It's corrupt. And you have some very fine people, too, great journalists, great reporters, but to a large extent it's corrupt and it's fake.

Ask the president of Finland a question, please.

QUESTION: OK. I will move on now.

Mr. President, in your opening remarks, you said to President Trump that you had been to some museums today and that you respected the U.S. democracy and encouraged him to continue it.

Are you concerned that that's not happening?

And my second question to you, sir, is, the WTO rule today in favor of the United States saying that the United States can now impose tariffs on European goods because of illegal subsidies against Airbus.

TRUMP: That was a big win for the United States, right?

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You never had wins with other presidents, did you? But we're having a lot of wins at the WTO since I became president.

QUESTION: This was a case that started, I think, 10 or 15 years ago.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Excuse me. The wins are now, because they think I don't like the WTO, and they want to make sure I'm happy, because all of those countries were ripping off the United States for many years.

They know that I'm wise to it. We have had a lot of wins. This was a $7 billion win. Not bad.

SAULI NIINISTO, PRESIDENT OF FINLAND: But I think the question is for me.

QUESTION: So, the question is, sir, if you're concerned that the president will impose those tariffs and the effect that that may have on the economy.

NIINISTO: Yes, first of all, when I refer to your democracy, I just wanted to tell that I'm impressed what American people have gained during these decades, 100 or so years, building up a very impressive democracy.

So keep it going on.

To WTO, I have a lot of respect to multilateralism and to international institutions. So WTO has given now a decision which is, well, quite tough with Europe.

But I just say that the WTO has said its opinion, and that's that.

[15:05:01]

TRUMP: And I just want to finish by saying, it's an honor to be with the president of Finland. He's done a fantastic job, very popular, beloved over in Finland.

The WTO has been much better to us since I have been president, because they understand they can't get away with what they have been getting away with for so many years, which is ripping off the United States.

And please remember the president's last remarks, that we are a great democracy. We are a great -- the United States is a great democracy.

And I'm airing what I'm airing because we are, in fact, a democracy. And if the press were straight and honest and forthright and tough, we would be a far greater nation. We would be a far greater, when we don't have the CNNs of the world, who are corrupt people.

Thank you very much, everybody.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to a special edition of THE LEAD: "White House in Crisis."

And you just saw there a president in clear crisis.

I'm Jake Tapper.

We have some breaking news. President Trump just now said that he will cooperate with House Democrats in their impeachment inquiry. They are warning the White House they will subpoena the White House for documents on Friday.

We should note that the president also-called the impeachment inquiry the greatest hoax, and he called it a fraudulent crime. So you can take his expression of willingness to cooperate as you will.

President Trump also just accused Congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, a Democrat from California, of helping to write the whistle-blower complaint.

We should point out that one of the whistle-blower's lawyers, who I just contacted, I just asked him, is there any truth that Schiff or the committee helped the whistle-blower write the complaint in any way? And the lawyer said -- quote -- "Absolutely not."

That was a response to a "New York Times" story on how the whistle- blower had reached out to Congressman Schiff before filing the complaint.

There's a lot that the president just said. I could spend probably about an hour-and-a-half fact-checking it.

Let me just couple -- make a couple notes. In addition to the accusation that Schiff helped the whistle-blower write the complaint, which the whistle-blower his lawyer said, absolutely not, there's no truth to that, the president also said that -- quote -- "Biden and his son are stone-cold crooked."

We should note the Ukrainian prosecutor has said that he has seen no evidence that Hunter Biden, the former vice president's son, did anything wrong. And there is no evidence that former Vice President Joe Biden did anything wrong. But the president keeps making this charge over and over.

There are some other less incendiary things the president said, such as the fact that the U.S. gives money to the Ukraine and nobody from Europe does. In actuality, the European Union gives much more money to Ukraine than the United States does, though the United States certainly contributes quite a bit.

I could go on and on, but we only have a couple hours here.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: So let's talk about some of the issues that the president just brought up.

First of all, let's run the tape, the quote from when President Trump was asked if he's going to cooperate with these subpoenas from the House committees investigating during this impeachment inquiry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I always cooperate. This is a hoax. This is the greatest hoax. This is just a continuation of what's been playing out, John, for the last -- since my election.

This is a fraudulent crime on the American people. But we will work together with shifty Shift (sic) and Pelosi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Bill Kristol, the president doesn't always cooperate. What did you take from that?

BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: The president is not cooperating.

I mean, Secretary of State Pompeo is refusing to allow certain people to testify. That is at the president's direction. The president can call up the secretary of state and say, let them testify.

Other many, many witnesses, ranging from his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to others -- there have been requests -- Attorney General Barr, they'd like to speak to. No evidence of cooperation. So, there, he's just pretending that he's being cooperative for about half-a-sentence, before attacking everyone who's trying to conduct this investigation.

And I -- you can do that, and I guess you can get away with it some and attack Biden, Schiff, whoever you want. But, at some point, I think people will want to know the truth.

And to know the truth, you do need to have certain documents and certain witnesses. I think the attack on the whistle-blower, if I could just say, is particularly noxious. I mean, so far as we can tell, this man or woman went through all the appropriate procedures.

The inspector general of the intelligence community said so. And the director of national intelligence, a Trump appointee, said the whistle-blower behave totally appropriately.

When at some point the complaint wasn't sent to the Hill, to Congress, as it was supposed to be, then he may have met with Chairman Schiff to let him know that there was this complaint being bottled up, but that seems to have been the -- that was weeks after, I think, more than a month after probably the actual complaint was submitted through channels.

So that attack is really an example of Trump's total disregard for legal procedures or in this case for the truth.

[15:10:05]

TAPPER: And, Dana, what are the House chairmen going to do if Pompeo, if the White House, if Rudy Giuliani do not comply with the subpoenas?

And let us remind our viewers that the legislative branch of Congress, according to this system that was set up hundreds of years ago, has oversight over the executive branch. So they have a constitutional responsibility to do this.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

TAPPER: What are they going to do if they don't comply with it?

BASH: Use it as meat on the impeachment bone, meaning they're already planning -- they have an impeachment inquiry. They are going to add it to the list of evidence behind the idea that the president is obstructing, which is a potential impeachable offense, depending on what it is.

TAPPER: Obstruction of Congress.

BASH: Obstruction of construction.

And, remember, impeachment is what Congress says it is. It's a political -- it's obviously constitutional, but how you define it is highly political.

What you saw just now in that press conference, and probably even more so with the event that you saw before in the Oval Office, this is why, beneath the spin, the few remaining people out there on Capitol Hill in the president's party who are still spinning, is deep concern, Jake, deep concern, that he is -- he's unhinged, and that what he is doing worked maybe during the year-and-a-half of the Russia investigation, but this is different.

And there is a frustration with these kinds of performances by the president, what he's done on Twitter with the whistle-blower and beyond. It is not giving them a strategic road map to beat back impeachment. It's making them all hide and run for cover.

TAPPER: And that reminds me. I'm glad you brought up the Mueller investigation, because that was another thing that I forgot to fact- check.

President Trump said they -- quote -- "couldn't find one damn thing" having to do with collusion. Not true. They could not find any evidence that prosecutors thought was prosecutable when it came to conspiracy to cooperate with Russia and Russia's interference in the U.S. election. That is not the same thing as not being able to find one damn thing.

Laura Coates, let me ask you, do you think that the this fight over subpoenas will ultimately end up in front of the U.S. Supreme Court?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It should, because, of course, this is the president of the United States trying to say, you're actually not co-equal branches of government.

If you can just thumb your nose at congressional authority and the congressional subpoena power, particularly when -- keep in mind, the First Amendment was an afterthought to the Constitution. Impeachment was baked into the recipe of American democracy.

The founding fathers said, this is absolutely going to be part of it. And they gave Congress the authority to have, particularly impeachment, oversight authority and to have that compulsion power.

If you then say, if you're the president of the United States, I'm not going to respect that -- and his notion about cooperating, remember why we're here, Jake. We're here and we know there is a whistle- blower complaint because the president did not cooperate with the process of the Whistleblower Protection Act in the first place.

It was exposed to the American people because they did not follow the proper channels. So now, if the Supreme Court or the judiciary does not weigh in and say, hold on, we have to flex our power because, frankly, if we don't assert our own power to show you, you can be checked, what becomes of the judiciary later on?

So there is an alliance being formed inadvertently by the president's thumbing their nose at Congress to say, judiciary, step up to the plate, or actually you're next on the menu.

TAPPER: And, Jeff, let's talk about the fundamental issue here, which is, according to the transcript, which is in alignment with the whistle-blower complaint, according to the president's own director of national intelligence, the president pushed, asked, requested that the president of Ukraine investigate the president's domestic political rivals, Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden.

That is just a fact. He asked the president of Ukraine, Zelensky, to do that. Jeff Mason, a very kind and excellent reporter that we know from Reuters, tried President Trump to answer the question just now, what did you want him to do with regard to the Bidens?

And, very tellingly, President Trump would not answer that question.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: He would not repeatedly answer that question.

And Jeff Mason, I -- it's hard to imagine another fair, even-keeled reporter who's interviewed this president many times in the Oval Office, President Trump would not answer that for a reason.

TAPPER: And was rude to Jeff. (CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: Incredibly rude to him, which, of course, this is a prerogative, I guess. That's hardly news here.

But the reality here is this. It is the memo of that conversation, a rough transcript, if you will, that started all this out. So I think it's important, as we go forward here, to not get wrapped up in the process. That is the point.

What happened last week is the big point here. That is the road map through all this, what President Trump was asking for. And that is not what he would talk about today. He called it a hoax. He accused Chairman Schiff of a bunch of things.

I was thinking back when we were talking earlier, during the Benghazi investigation, whistle-blowers frequently met with Republican members of the committee. That is not unusual.

[15:15:07]

TAPPER: All the time.

ZELENY: For sure.

TAPPER: All the time.

ZELENY: So, that is -- it sounds sexy, perhaps, but that is how it works.

They go to the committee staff for guidance on how to proceed.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: In fact, if I can interrupt for just one second...

ZELENY: Sure.

TAPPER: ... one of this whistle-blower's attorneys, Mark Zaid...

ZELENY: Exactly.

TAPPER: ... represented the Benghazi five and worked closely with then Chairman Darrell Issa, Republican of California, to bring those whistle-blower stories to the fore.

ZELENY: It's a specialty. Some lawyers specialize in drunk driving cases. Some specialize here in Washington in whistle-blower cases. So that is what you do, which is why Chairman Schiff's spokesperson is not -- saying, there was nothing wrong here.

This is what they were doing. They're going there for guidance.

So the president believes he caught Chairman Schiff in something here. This is pro forma. This is how it works. So, I think taking stock of everything, right now, we know that what Dana was saying earlier, the biggest development so far today -- and the day is young -- is that there could be more articles of impeachment because of obstruction of Congress.

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: And just to tie together these two points, the reason Congress has asked -- they didn't subpoena at first, but asked people to testify voluntarily and has now subpoenaed people, is because they are following up on things outlined in the whistle-blower complaint or suggested by the transcript or by other evidence that's come to light.

They're not randomly, let's have this person, let's have that person. They have been pretty focused, I have got to say. And so they have a responsibility to investigate. And the way you investigate is by asking for documents and asking for sworn testimony. This is not hard.

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: So it's not even that -- Trump makes it seem as if Nancy Pelosi is throwing out subpoenas right and left. They have actually been recently disciplined, especially in the last week or two.

COATES: So they weren't cookies, as they say?

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: They weren't just handing out thin mint cookies? OK, she's not a Girl Scout. We got it.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: As we speak, the State Department inspector general is on Capitol Hill briefing staffers and the members who are here about something, something that could be very significant to what we have been talking about.

TAPPER: And questions about whether or not the State Department is fully cooperating.

BASH: Right. Right.

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: Right, because the State Department I.G., just to make it clear, only goes to the Hill when he or she's had -- or he in this case, I believe -- has had difficulty resolving it internally at the State Department.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: On Capitol Hill, they were told it's an urgent matter .

KRISTOL: He's obliged to go to Congress because he hasn't been able to get the secretary of state or whoever to deal with whatever the complaint was.

So it is really striking.

BASH: Yes. And we could have a whole new avenue of information on this in the next hour.

TAPPER: I want to play the sound, because I do think it is so important that President Trump refused to answer this question, because, remember, first, President Trump said this was a perfect call.

Then the evidence came out from the White House that President Trump indeed asked the president of Ukraine to investigate his domestic political rivals, which many experts and authorities, including former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent on this show one day ago, said is a clear abuse of power.

President Trump has said there's -- he did nothing wrong. Very few Republicans have been forward -- have been willing to come forward and say, oh, yes, this is absolutely fine. His most loyal supporters have, but, generally speaking, there has not been a mass movement of Republicans saying, this is great. I want every Republican or Democratic president to call foreign countries to investigate Republicans and Democrats in this country, because, of course, that would be exactly against what the founders of this country thought was appropriate.

Here is Jeff Mason, an excellent and mild-mannered reporter with Reuters, asking President Trump, what did you want President Zelensky to investigate about former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter?

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Are you talking to me?

QUESTION: Yes, it was just a follow-up of what I just asked you, sir.

TRUMP: Listen, listen, are you ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question.

QUESTION: I have one for him. I just wanted to follow up on the one I asked you, which was, what did you want...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Did you hear me? Did you hear me? Ask him a question.

QUESTION: I will, but...

TRUMP: I have given you a long answer. Ask this gentleman a question.

(LAUGHTER) TRUMP: Don't be rude.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In case of emergency, break glass. And the president of Finland is underneath that glass.

But, I mean, but why not answer the question if it's perfect, if there's nothing wrong with it?

BASH: But here what's so remarkable. And I'm so glad you played that.

We have all had experiences with the president interviewing the president. Well, maybe not you, but most of us.

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: But I envy you so much.

BASH: And we have watched so many times when he -- the thing about him is, he always answers the question.

The fact that he didn't answer that question is because he didn't want to. And it goes back to the most important thing in all of this, which you mentioned, Jeff, which is this summary, not a transcript, as the president said...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: He said it was a verbatim transcript. It is not.

BASH: Oh, yes. Thank you. Well, just as...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Just a quick -- another fact-check. We're going to be doing this for the next two hours.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Yes.

This is on the actual statement that the White House put out, front page: "A memorandum of telephone cooperation is not a verbatim transcript of the discussion."

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: It says it right here on the front page.

TAPPER: But the president just said it was verbatim, Dana.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Exactly. But, regardless, going back to this, he doesn't want to answer the

question about what he asked, what he wanted the Ukrainian leader to do for him about Joe and Hunter Biden, because he knows it was nefarious, and it was wrong, and he shouldn't have done it, as much as he tries to play, follow this other shiny object.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:20:18]

TAPPER: All right, everyone, stick -- we're going to keep talking.

Everyone, stick around. We're going to squeeze in a quick break.

More on our breaking news. While President Trump was answering questions at the White House, as Dana mentioned, the State Department inspector general has been on Capitol Hill holding an urgent briefing.

You're watching a special edition of THE LEAD, "The White House in Crisis."

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:25]

TAPPER: And we're back with breaking news.

Just moments ago, President Trump keeping up his attacks on Congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, this time without any evidence, accusing Schiff of having helped write the whistle-blower complaint.

We should point out before we run this clip that I talked to the whistle-blower's attorney, Mark Zaid. I said, did Schiff or the committee, the House Intelligence Committee, help the whistle-blower write the complaint in any way?

And he said, on the record, "Absolutely not."

Here's President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I think it's a scandal that he knew before.

I would go a step further. I think he probably helped write it. He knew long before and he helped write it too. It's a scam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just make stuff up and just say it in front of the whole world.

CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what does Schiff or his spokesmen have to say about this?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have not officially responded to the president's comments as of yet, but they have responded to reports initially reported by "The New York Times" that the chairmen of the committee knew about the outlines of the complaint before it came out publicly and saying -- after that report came out, they issued a lengthy statement, saying that they had, in fact, no advance -- didn't see in advance this complaint, saying -- quote -- "At no point did the committee review or received the complaint in advance."

Now, what they do acknowledge is that the whistle-blower had approached an aide on the committee for -- quote -- "guidance" about the proper channels of actually filing the complaint.

And according to the spokesman for Adam Schiff, he says that this is common practice that's done in Republican- and Democratic-run committees alike, that, oftentimes, whistle-blowers come forward, and they need some guidance from the people who know how that process works to tell them how it works.

So they said that they haven't seen -- the only -- the first time they saw the complaint is when the rest of the full House Intelligence Committee saw the complaint, which was the evening before the acting director of national intelligence testified in an open setting about what was in there.

But, Jake, at the moment, they're saying that there's absolutely no truth to what the president is alleging.

TAPPER: And, Manu, the State Department's inspector general is right now on Capitol Hill holding a -- quote -- "urgent briefing."

What can you tell us about that? Do we know what was so urgent? We know that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo right now seems inclined to defy congressional subpoenas asking for testimony and asking for documents.

Do we have any idea if that's what the inspector general of the State Department is talking about?

RAJU: There is a lot of speculation right now about what this meeting is about.

We don't have a precise idea quite yet, because the members of Congress that I'm speaking to, the people who've been invited to this briefing, they themselves don't exactly know what this is about.

I have talked to a number of people who did enter this closed-door meeting. They were not aware of anything other than a very vaguely worded e-mail saying this has to do with Ukraine, saying that the inspector general wanted to share documents that he had obtained from the legal adviser of the State Department.

Now, Jake, the timing too is interesting, because that e-mail inviting them to this urgent briefing came right after, soon after, the secretary of state sent a letter to Capitol Hill saying essentially that they would not be complying with the requests both to schedule depositions quickly for five State -- current and former State Department officials and for subpoena for documents related to the Ukraine matter.

So we will what this has to do. There are ongoing investigations about personnel that are -- that the inspector general is carrying out. Do they get any insight into that? Or what does this do to the impeachment inquiry?

These are all major questions that we will have to answer in the coming hours here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Keep us posted as to all the developments.

Coming up: One world leader says there was nothing wrong at all with President Trump's call with Ukraine. I will give you one guess who that world leader is.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]