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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Official: Turkish Artillery Fire Hit Just Hundreds of Meters Away from U.S. Special Forces in Syria; Why Did Trump Pull U.S. Troops in Syria Now?; 2020 Democrats Take On LGBTQ Issues At CNN Town Hall; Wildfire Rips Through Northern LA; 100,000 Residents Evacuate. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 11, 2019 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: His record shows and he also points out this is not an immediate change through attrition and he also puts more faith probably than Trump in the actual agencies from which they are gathering information --

[16:30:05]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Right.

HAM: -- through these personnel and that he would rely more heavily on them as institutions as opposed to having people in house.

This is like a very large D.C. think tank level of personnel right now. And as many people know, that has come with a lot of bureaucracy.

TAPPER: I want to -- I want to play for you some sound from President Trump last night railing against the Ukraine scandal, investigators and the impeachment probe. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats' brazen attempt to overthrow our government will produce a backlash at the ballot box, the likes of which they have never seen before in the history of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Brazen attempt to overthrow our government. And he also says a backlash at the ballot box which we've never seen before.

Do they really think that that impeachment is going to help them?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they're making that argument. They're making much more of a political argument than a legal argument. That was the president's written remarks. He wasn't going off the cuff and it echoed the commentary we saw from the White House counsel on this eight-page letter that he sent over to Congress earlier in the week.

They are basically accusing the Democrats of trying to overturn the 2016 election, trying to meddle in the 2020 election. They think that making that argument works with the base and based on the reaction in the crowd. It does work with the president's base. The question is whether or not it works with a broader public and we have seen a number of polls that have come out over the last few days that have shown that a growing number of Americans do think that the president should be impeached and his call with Ukraine was wrong or at least inappropriate, and they're not necessarily winning that messaging battle, but the fact that the president is focusing on his base shows that he has already chosen his electoral strategy for 2020, which is to drill down on the hardest supporters, turnout -- to get them to turn out and rally as much as possible, present himself as a victim and hope that will turn out a large number of voters on his behalf.

TAPPER: And, Shan, I just want to read one part from a former Ukrainian -- U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Yovanovitch today.

Quote: Today, we see the State Department attacked and hollowed out from within. State Department leadership with Congress needs to take action now to defend this great institution and thousands of loyal and effective employees. We need to rebuild diplomacy as a first resort to advance America's interest and the front line of America's defense. I fear that not doing so will harm our nation's interest, perhaps irreparably.

There is this concern that the president, President Trump is using government for his own ends and not for the best interests of American values.

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, absolutely. He's really blatantly engaging in that right now. And the classic abuse of power and it sounds like a dictator's rule.

I mean, when he wants to use the government apparatus to his own ends, that's very impeachable. I think we see reflections going on in the different agencies, State Department. And frankly, I respectfully disagree with any faith in O'Brien's move there. It concerns me that they're cutting that staff down at this time for this president. That is what worries me about it.

And, for example, some of their historical antecedents seem just silly. I mean ,talking about the Bay of Pigs, Carter staff was leaner. Those aren't great historical examples of success in terms of the --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: -- foreign policy.

All right. Everyone, stick around.

We just learned that Turkey almost hit U.S. Special Forces in Syria. This just hours after the White House re-upped the threat to sanction Turkey, something we've heard before but President Trump doesn't seem able to say no to Turkey's president. Why not?

Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:50]

TAPPER: Back with breaking news in our world lead today.

And officials telling CNN that Turkey's military offensive in northern Syria hit very close to a U.S. Special Operations unit. Earlier reports indicate no U.S. injuries and no indication that the incident was deliberate.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is in the thick of it right now, in northern Syria.

And, Clarissa, this Turkish military operation might be causing new activity by ISIS?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Jake. Earlier today, there have been a couple of incidents that have really raised people's concerns. The first took place in a family camp -- sorry, I should say a camp for ISIS family prisoners. It's called Al Hol. There's about 50,000 of them living, they're family members of ISIS. Many of them radicalized.

And it appears that dozens of them essentially tried to stage some kind of a prison break, tried to escape, trying to capitalize on the kind of chaos and confusion that is raining at this time in northern Syria. Kurdish security forces were able to put a stop to that but nonetheless it is raising eyebrows.

And then here in the very city that I'm standing in, Jake, near the Turkish border, a car bomb earlier today, four people killed. Quite a significant blast. ISIS has come out and claimed responsibility for that bombing.

We should say we can't confirm that. ISIS is opportunistic. They often tried to claim credit for these types of attacks even if they are not the actual perpetrators.

But all of this really going to show you, Jake, that when you have some kind of a power vacuum or a security vacuum, you create a space for a group like ISIS to reform, coalesce and strike again -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Clarissa, you spoke with U.S. special operators in Syria. What are they saying about the Turkish operation?

WARD: So, we went into a U.S. Special Forces base earlier. None of the Special Forces operatives obviously would speak to us on camera, but it's a very uncomfortable dynamic for them, Jake, because their base is being guarded by Kurdish forces. The same Kurdish forces who were fighting on the front lines for them against ISIS.

And now, there is this incredible tension with Kurdish forces who were privately telling us in this same base that they felt that the U.S. had sold them out and that they were not going to help them against -- to fight back this Turkish offensive. [16:40:09]

And these guys have living together as brothers for a long time. So, it's incredibly tense and awkward dynamic for our special forces in Syria, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Clarissa Ward in northern Syria, please stay safe.

The White House threatened Turkey with new sanctions if the Turkey crosses a line regarding civilian casualties or ISIS escapees from prisons in northern Syrian. But the secretary of the treasury refused to define what the red line is and he acknowledged that the sanctions were not going to be actually imposed necessarily. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MNUCHIN, SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to emphasize at this point we are not activating the sanctions. Those are very powerful sanctions we hope we don't have to use them but we could shut down the Turkish economy if we need to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Turkey's president has wanted to target Kurdish forces in Syria for years, so why now did President Trump move U.S. Special Forces out of the way and allow the Turkish military operation to happen? This all comes within the odd context of President Trump often doing what Turkish President Erdogan wants him to do, even at the expense of U.S. interests.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): Despite President Trump's vague threat to Turkey on Thursday --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to possibly do something very, very tough with respect to sanctions and other financial things.

TAPPER: His order to withdraw U.S. service members from the northern part of Syria on the eve of the Turkey's assault on America's long- time Kurdish allies is, in fact, just the latest in a number of decisions where the Trump administration is seemed to bend over backwards to give Turkey's President Erdogan what he wants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not a good pattern. It's a pattern of appeasement.

TAPPER: The Trump administration's ties to Turkey began before the 2016 election, when former national security adviser Michael Flynn at the time an adviser to the Trump campaign was doing secret lobbying work on behalf of the Turkish government.

"The Wall Street Journal" reporting that Flynn met with Turkish government officials about getting one of Erdogan's enemies, a Turkish cleric living in Pennsylvania in exile, Fethullah Gulen, forcibly removed to Turkey. Erdogan has accused Gulen of masterminding an attempted coup in 2016, though, Gulen denied any involvement in the coup and he was never forcibly removed from the U.S.

TRUMP: General Flynn is a wonderful man.

TAPPER: Flynn subsequently admitted to breaking the law by making false statements on federal lobbying disclosure about his work for Turkey.

And there's Rudy Giuliani's representation of Reza Zarrab, a Turkish businessman with ties to top Turkish officials indicted by the U.S. for helping Iran to evade billions of dollars in U.S. sanctions.

In an Oval Office meeting with Giuliani and Trump, then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was pressed to drop a criminal case against Zarrab who reportedly had an office in Trump Tower Istanbul. Tillerson said no.

Even more curious, the Trump administration so proud of withdrawing from the Iran deal and imposing new sanctions has not yet fined the bank involved in the case, the state-owned Halkbank. Why not?

The Trump administration did not respond to CNN's request for comment.

Then there's the matter of Turkey purchasing the Russian S-400 missile defense system, a system that Pentagon officials have said would pose an intelligence risk to the U.S. since Turkey also purchased U.S. F-35 fighter jets. According to a 2017 law, Turkey's purchase of the Russian weapons is supposed to trigger congressionally mandated sanctions against Turkey. But Trump has not pulled that trigger. Why not?

The Trump administration told us today, quote: We continue to urge Turkey to reconsider the receipt of the S-400. There is a deliberative process ongoing on the issue of sanctions.

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: There could be more sanctions to follow, but frankly, what we'd really like is the S-400 not become operational.

TAPPER: In fact, after the Pentagon insisted that the White House cancel Turkey's purchase of the F-35 jet, President Trump sounded more upset about the law than Turkey violating it.

TRUMP: I have had a good relationship with President Erdogan. Because of the fact he bought a Russian missile, we're not allowed to sell them billion dollars of aircraft. It's not a fair situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sends a terrible message to the Turkish regime they could continue to test American red lines and get away with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Coming up next, one answer getting a lot of attention from a Democratic presidential candidate. Stay with us.

[16:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our "2020 LEAD" today, a moment getting a lot of attention from Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren at CNN's Town Hall last night focused on LGBTQ issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a supporter approaches you and says, Senator, I am old fashioned, and my faith teaches me that marriage is between one man and one woman. What is your response?

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm going to assume it's a guy who said that. And I'm going to say, just marry one woman. I'm cool with that. Assuming you can find one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A lot of applause for that in the room. What was your response?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, it's a moment that sort of built to go viral for her on Twitter, but Twitter is not the American electorate. So I would have suggest had I been advising her which have not, a note of respect for the person's religious beliefs while also noting you're welcome to do as you wish and these people can do is they wish. That's how we coexist, right?

I think that would be maybe slightly better tone because if you take that to believers in Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin where you have to win their hearts, maybe a nod to their sincere religious beliefs would be helpful.

I would also note that on the other side of things, something built to go viral the bad way is Beto O'Rourke's idea that he's going to punish churches that don't perform same-sex marriages. And that is also --

[16:50:34]

TAPPER: Take away their tax exempt status.

HAM: Right. That is also something that does not play in Peoria.

TAPPER: Are you -- are you concerned as a Democrat who wants a Democrat to win, are you concerned about what you heard last night in those two examples?

JEN PSAKI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, one, as we all know, they're all playing to the Democratic base right now because they have to win the nomination before they worry about any of those questions. I don't think that Elizabeth Warren is betting in a general election. She is going to win the hearts and minds of people who are against gay marriage. I think that is a pretty safe bet on her part. The majority of the public is for it.

On Beto O'Rourke's part, you know, I think he's making some headway a little bit by saying things that he clearly believes that are a little out there for the Democratic electorate. I don't think he's going to be the nominee. Others may be asked that. It's probably not in line with Peoria but they're betting that the majority of the public is -- that they need to win over the general election is where they are.

TAPPER: Another interesting moment from last night from former Vice President Joe Biden talking about how far discussions on LGBTQ issues have come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Remember, Anderson, back 15, 20 years ago, we talked about this and in San Francisco is all about, well, you know, gay bathhouses, and everything. It's all about around the clock sex. It's all -- come on man.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, part of the reason that Vice President Biden is facing some challenges especially among younger voters, people who think that he's not sort of attuned to the current moment. That comments that were OK, maybe 20, or 15 years ago are no longer OK in the political sphere, especially among the Democratic base.

He seems to still be pulling well, he still seems to be doing OK especially among older voters, but those types of gaffs, if you call if you want to call them that or misstatements, will make it harder for him to build a broad coalition that you need in a Democratic primary to not only, you know, winning the general but also be able to make it through a Democratic primary where the base, specifically younger voters and people who may be offended by that kind of language will need to be catered to. And I'm not sure that --

HAM: Can someone give him a list of things not to say in this forum and he just like read it? Because the top of the list would be gay bathhouses and the round the clock sex, those would be the two things.

TAPPER: Does it concern you at all? It seems like another record player moment kind of to me.

PSAKI: Yes, look, there have been a number of moments where even those of us who have affection for Vice President Biden think what on earth is happening right now. But there's still continues to be affection from The American public including within the Democratic primary voters for him.

TAPPER: He still leads.

HAM: And in Peoria.

PSAKI: And in Peoria. And part of his appeal is that he says things that your uncle says and people feel comfortable with him and it's a return to normalcy. So yes, that was a weird comment. I'm not sure it's going to impact him in the -- in the long run. TAPPER: Record players and bathhouses. Be sure to tune in Tuesday night for the CNN New York Times Democratic Presidential Debate they'll be 12 candidates on stage in Ohio. That's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday.

Coming up, thousands of people evacuated, several homes destroyed, at least three major highways have been closed. We're going to go live to the wildfire in California that might get much worse. Stay with us.

[16:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our "NATIONAL LEAD," 100,000 Californians have been told to evacuate, 23,000 homes are threatened, and the Saddleridge Fire in California is right now just 13 percent contained. It's tearing through neighborhoods in northern Los Angeles. So far, one person has died due to a cardiac arrest.

CNN's Nick Watt joins me now live reporting on this. Nick, are we hearing any good news from officials?

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I don't mean this to sound callous, but the best news I've heard all day is that so far, only around 25 homes have been destroyed. And I say that because when we arrived here at 2:30 this morning and watch this house burn, I was convinced the devastation would be much greater. Then we heard that the whole of this town Porter Ranch was under mandatory evacuation.

Now, part of the reason that we didn't see the devastation is authorities knew this was coming. The conditions for a wildfire have been perfect all week. These offshore dry Santa Ana winds, low humidity, dry brush. They knew this was going to happen. So they pre-positioned equipment and personnel to deal with this.

But as you mentioned, Jake, this is far from over. Only 13 percent contained, around 1,000 firefighters still on those lines. The line is burning right now up in unpopulated areas but that can change it anytime. And the red flag warnings that were supposed to be lifted 6:00 p.m. Friday, those have been extended 6:00 p.m. Saturday.

And there's another very sobering thought here. Last year, we had the worst, the deadliest fire in California history, and that did not ignite, Jake, until the second week in November.

TAPPER: That's terrifying. Nick Watt, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Stay safe. Be sure to tune in this Sunday morning to CNN "STATE OF THE UNION." My guests will include Democratic Presidential Candidate Mayor Pete Buttigieg. That's at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern.

You can follow me on Facebook, or on Instagram, or on Twitter @JAKETAPPER. You can tweet the show @THELEADCNN. We actually read your tweets. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you Sunday morning. [17:00:00]