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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Report: Unredacted White House Email Calls Ukraine Aid Hold "Clear Direction" from Trump; NY Orders More Patrols & Security After Wave of Violence. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired January 02, 2020 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:30:08]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The politics lead now. Amidst a presidential impeachment involving a withheld White House meeting for the president of Ukraine, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo canceled his planned trip to Ukraine where he would have met with Ukrainian President Zelensky.
The State Department saying Pompeo did so in order to monitor the violence surrounding the Iraqi embassy.
This news comes as new reporting from the website "Just Security" is showing us what's behind some of those black lines in the redacted emails the administration was forced to hand over those requesting, warnings from the Pentagon that the hold on military aid to Ukraine broke the law and that the decision to withhold the aid came right from the top, as CNN's Sara Murray reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the face of warnings from the Pentagon that withholding nearly $400 million in Ukraine could be illegal, a top budget official made it clear the orders were coming directly from the president. Clear direction from POTUS to continue to hold, Michael Duffey, a top Office of Management and Budget official wrote in an email to defense comptroller Elaine McCusker on August 30th.
National security focused website "Just Security" reviewed the unredacted emails, which was previously released by the Trump administration with heavy redactions. The emails reportedly show that weeks earlier, McCusker flagged concerns that if the hold wasn't lifted soon, the Pentagon couldn't guarantee all of the money would reach Ukraine in time. The emails highlight the finger-pointing between OMB and the Defense Department over the freeze on Ukraine funds.
Today, an OMB spokesperson said there was an agreement every step of the way between DOD and OMB lawyers, who were responsible for working out the details of the hold, in line with the president's priorities.
Defense Department officials disagreed. One said: We were always concerned about the ramifications of holding the military assistance to Ukraine. The new details come as the impeachment proceedings remain in limbo.
White House aides were in touch with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's office over the holidays. But when the Senate returns tomorrow, McConnell plans to continue business as usual until Nancy Pelosi officially transmits the articles of impeachment.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Other House Democrats seem to be suggesting they would prefer never to transmit the articles. Fine with me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY: Now, Democratic lawmakers, including Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are already seizing on these emails, pointing to them as evidence that any kind of fair trial in the Senate is going to need to include documents and witnesses from the Trump administration -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Sara Murray, thanks so much.
And this is how Nancy Pelosi just responded to these emails in a tweet: Trump engaged in unprecedented total obstruction of Congress, hiding these emails, all other documents and his top aides from the American people. His excuse was a phony complaint about the House process. What's the excuse now? Why won't Trump and McConnell allow a fair trial?
What do you make of that argument, Ayesha?
AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, NPR: Well, I think that it is something that they're going to really drill down on. And these unredacted emails, they really do raise questions because you had OMB general counsel has sent a letter to the GAO, basically saying that they had held up this money and that the reason why they held up this money, but it didn't make a big difference, that DOD was telling them there was no risk that this money wouldn't go out.
But what you see in these emails is the direct opposite of what OMB said, that there was a risk that this money was going to be held up and that there was a legal concern. And this goes against what Republicans were saying, that this was just people, you know, this was just the deep state, they just disagreed with policy. But the concerns that were being raised were not about policy. They were about legal issues, people in the DOD thought that this was illegal, that they were withholding this money.
TAPPER: And here is this one unredacted email from August 30th of last year from Michael Duffey. He's a Office of Management and Budget official, to Elaine McCusker, she's a Pentagon comptroller. It mentions the, quote, clear direction from POTUS, that's president of the United States, to continue to hold.
And this obviously flies right in the face of those who were saying there's nothing tying President Trump to this.
KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. And I don't -- I don't think that many people actually believed that. Like the number of people --
TAPPER: They keep saying it, though, House Republicans.
HAM: I'm not talking about elected officials, I'm actually talking about real people.
TAPPER: Real people.
HAM: Real people. Normal people, the number who think it was a perfect call and that there was nothing here is fairly low. The question again is whether that rises to the point that they want him removed? And that's a real open question.
I'm not real sure what we're doing at this point. Are we going to transmit the articles of impeachment? Are we going to redo the thing in the House because we have information? Are they just asking to be in control of the Senate's rules?
And all of that sounded like gobbledygook. That's what it sounds like to normal people as well. And it will continue to sound like that, which is why this is sort of stagnant and has been for quite sometime. And that part matters for these proceedings.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But I would say yes and no, right?
[16:35:00]
If Democrats keep it very simple, which is the president of the United States should tell the truth. Why are you block material evidence because every time in the last couple of weeks we've gotten new information that undermines the president, so it looks like he's using his power to protect himself. And why won't you let these people come forward and testify?
Now, when we went through the House proceedings, Republicans kept saying, well, these people don't have direct knowledge. OK. So, now, Schumer is saying we want people with direct knowledge. This report gives us more information.
TAPPER: The one from Just Security, yes.
FINNEY: Yes, Just Security gives us -- and actually "The New York Times" even earlier this week gives us more information of exactly what kind of direct knowledge these individuals had, and their participation.
So, I think if Democrats -- now they're in this phase of negotiating. I'm sure tomorrow is going to be full of lots of bluster on the Senate floor, that will be great. However, I think this gives Schumer and Pelosi leverage. It's not just about Mitch McConnell. It's about those senators who are vulnerable. It is -- right? That's --
MELANIE ZANONA, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Right. It doesn't move those needle -- move the needle with those enough Republicans, four Republican senators, what would be needed for anything at the end of the day. Fifty-one votes wins. I haven't seen that yet.
You know, you have Collins and Murkowski who expressed concerns. But then they also, we're concerned with the democratic process, or in Murkowski's case, she said, I'm open to waiting to punt on the witnesses until after the case. So, if they're not willing to get behind Democrats in this push for first-hand witnesses and documents, it's just not going to happen.
TAPPER: Hmm, you look like you were waiting to say something.
HAM: No, I'm skeptical that there's enough enthusiasm on this issue, on the issue of witnesses inside a Senate trial among normal Americans to put enough pressure on a couple of senators for them to go, oh, yes, we're going to change the way we do this. I don't see it happening.
ZANONA: Their own party and buck McConnell, it's very hard to imagine.
TAPPER: The president venting about a lot of things on Twitter today, as his want, he quoted a conservative commentator from "The New York Post", saying, quote, it seems the Democrats have shot themselves in the foot in one more way, and this president is being persecuted over three years with one investigation after another and that really plays to his base.
It's an argument to make, because things are not clear-cut here. We had the impeachment proceeding and it's kind of, as Mary Katharine points out, it's kind of on hold and we're not really sure what's going to happen.
RASCOE: And the country is divided, right? Even though some polls have showed that the majority of the country thinks he did something wrong, that the president did something wrong, they are divided on what happens next. And so I think probably what you're having now is the Democrats trying to decide whether they -- what type of pressure they can really put on President Trump. He was saying that he wanted a trial but in the past few days, he has kind of been hinting maybe he doesn't care what happens.
I think he wants to be vindicated. I think he will want some type of trial. But it's not clear how much the Democrats are really going to be able to dictate that.
TAPPER: Are they putting -- are the Democrats putting enough pressure directly on Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, any other vulnerable Republican with ads, with Democratic grassroot activists? I mean, I haven't seen that.
FINNEY: I agree with you. I haven't seen enough of it. I think there have some efforts, it was a little bit challenging I think during the holidays. Now that we're back in January, I think it will be a lot easier.
And again, as long as we keep it simple, there is a very fair argument to be made about the facts and the truth. TAPPER: Everyone, stick around. We've got more to talk about.
And we do have some breaking news on the Hanukkah stabbing, including an update on one of the victims who is fighting for his life.
Stay with us.
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[16:42:42]
TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our national lead. Heightened security on display across New York City and the surrounding area after the 15th anti-Semitic attack was reported just yesterday. One of the victims of Saturday's Hanukkah stabbing spree in Monsey, New York, suffered severed brain damage.
Today, Josef Neumann's family said it's possible that the 72-year-old may never regain consciousness.
CNN national correspondent Brynn Gingras joins us now live from Rockland County, New York, where officials just wrapped a news conference.
And, Brynn, update us on Mr. Neumann's condition.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was a pretty emotional news conference from this family, Josef Neumann. Essentially, they said he underwent a surgery this morning to help him eat and breathe. But he has never regained consciousness since this attack happened on Saturday and they don't think he will. At least that's what doctors are telling him at this point, or telling the family rather.
I want to show you a picture, though, of his condition in the hospital. I want to warn you also though that this picture is very graphic. But the family released it and that's why we're showing it to you. They say they want people to see this picture because they want everyone to see the extent of his injuries.
You can see how horrific the condition he is in right now. It's important to know what happened here in their community.
I want you to also take a listen to more of what they said about this attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICKY KOHEN, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: The doctors do not have high hopes for him. He may never be -- I mean, if he wakes up, he may never be able to walk, talk or even process speech again.
We want our kids to go to school and feel safe. We want to go to our synagogues and feel safe. We want to go to groceries and malls and feel safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: And, yes, Jake, they're saying basically they want their father to be a symbol of change, if anything comes out of this, Jake.
TAPPER: And, Brynn, what types of additional security measures have been dispatched across New York?
GINGRAS: Yes, across New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo is stepping up state police patrols in Jewish communities all across the state. Here in this county, we're learning that city administrators are adding cameras all around these cities to have a little bit more security protection as well as patrols.
You mentioned New York City, we've been noting a number of attacks there. The strategic response group, which are those highly trained law enforcement officials, they're going to be on the ground as well in Jewish communities across New York City -- Jake.
[16:45:00]
TAPPER: All right, Brynn Gingras in Rockland County, New York, thank you so much.
We are fact-checking the new numbers that President Trump is using to attack House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
And let's just say he probably didn't read his own administration's report.
Stay with us.
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TAPPER: The national lead now.
President Trump over the holiday season pulling some of the least fortunate people in this country -- it's millions of homeless -- into the impeachment fight, using their suffering as a cudgel against Speaker Nancy Pelosi, since many live in the San Francisco area, which she represents in Congress.
The tweet came after the Trump administration put out a press release jumping the gun, in a way, on its own report on homeless numbers.
[16:50:06]
We asked CNN's Nick Watt to look into the suffering behind the mean tweets to find out more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A couple of days after California's Nancy Pelosi banged that gavel, impeaching the president, the Department of Housing and Urban Development issued a rather unusual press release.
"Secretary Carson certifies annual data. Homelessness ticked up in 2019, driven by major increases in California."
BEN CARSON, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT SECRETARY: There's enough of an increase in California, 16.4 percent, to drive the entire equation up.
WATT: The department's annual homeless report hasn't been released yet, but this preemptive press release was used by President Trump over the holidays to attack the speaker.
"Crazy Nancy Pelosi should spend more time in her decaying city and less time on the impeachment hoax." According to Trump, California leads the nation by far in both the number of homeless people.
Well, that's true, but per capita, New York, Hawaii, and outside the president's own front door, Washington, D.C., are actually all higher.
California also accused of leading the nation in percentage increase in the homeless population. False. New Mexico is number one.
MIKE ARNOLD, CEO, THE MIDNIGHT MISSION: Everywhere in the nation is seeing issues around homelessness. And a lot of this has to do with the affordability of housing.
Affordability in California is incredibly challenging. I think the latest statistics show that you have to make $130,000 in order to afford a home in Los Angeles.
WATT: Tiffany Casterline has been homeless in Hollywood about a year.
(on camera): You had a job.
TIFFANY CASTERLINE, RECENTLY LOST HOME: Yes.
WATT: But you were still living on the street?
CASTERLINE: Yes.
WATT: Why?
CASTERLINE: Because it wasn't enough to pay for the rent in California.
WATT (voice-over): Says she was fired when her boss found out.
CASTERLINE: This isn't permanent. It's temporary.
WATT (on camera): OK.
CASTERLINE: That's what I tell myself.
(LAUGHTER)
WATT: OK, yes. I get that. (voice-over): Trump also tweeted that: "California and New York must call and politely ask for help. Would be so easy with competence."
ARNOLD: Well, if it were easy, it'd be done by now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: So, here's another stat that I pulled out of the hard raw data that, unsurprisingly, did not make it into that press release.
Under President Obama, homelessness nationwide fell by 14 percent. Under President Trump, the latest HUD stats show it's already up by 3 percent. So, Obama good, Trump bad.
Well, no, not necessarily, because there can be a lag time between cause and effect with homelessness. So, some of the seeds for that Trump bump might have been sown under Obama. So what that actually tells us, that's just another example of how easy it is, Jake, to take data, manipulate it, massage it to score political points.
As the old saying goes, lies, damn lies, and statistics -- Jake.
TAPPER: Of course, you could just approach this as a humanitarian gesture, of course, and realize these are all our problem.
Nick Watt live in Los Angeles, thank you so much for that report. Appreciate it.
Conditions are so bad that firenadoes could break out, as deadly wildfires threaten thousands. It's about to get worse.
Stay with us.
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[16:57:58]
TAPPER: In today's world lead: Firefighters from the U.S. are in Australia, trying to help that country battle its worst wildfires in decades, more intense and larger than in the past, and also to blame for killing, as of now, 18 people.
Australian authorities declaring a state of emergency along much of the country's southeast coastline, where conditions are expected to get worse.
CNN's Anna Coren is in that region. She joins us now live.
Anna, the rush is on to save lives there.
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Jake.
At the moment, the priority is getting people out of these fire zones. We are here in Nowra, on the south coast of New South Wales. The entire state has been declared a state of emergency. And the priority is getting people out before the return of catastrophic conditions, which they are expecting tomorrow. We're talking about 40-degree-plus temperatures. That's obviously 100 degrees Fahrenheit.
It is just frightening as to what we could be facing tomorrow, on top of that, ferocious winds. And that is what just rips through these areas, much of it state forests and national parks. This is the south coast of New South Wales. Many people come here for their summer holidays.
And that is what authorities want, these people to get out, holidaymakers and residents. The problem, Jake, is that the fires are burning on these major thoroughfares. People are stuck.
So, as I say, priority today is to get these people out.
TAPPER: And, Anna, quickly, if you could, is it the winds and the heat that's making these fires so bad compared to previous years?
COREN: Well, this is the worst fire season on record.
Not only are you talking about extreme heat and a longer period, but Australia has been facing the worst drought on record. So, Australia is really suffering drought and bushfires.
And you would have seen Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison being heckled by residents at one of these townships that was absolutely decimated.
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