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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Sanders to Critics Who Say He's Too Polarizing: Don't Tell Me I Can't Beat Trump. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired February 27, 2020 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[16:31:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't tell me, Bernie can't beat Trump. We're going beat him. We're going beat him here in North Carolina. We're going to beat him all over this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A very confident Senator Bernie Sanders this afternoon in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, pushing back on Democrats who argue he is too far to the left to win in November.
Let's bring in one of those Democrats, Rahm Emanuel, former mayor of Chicago, President Obama's first White House chief of staff, who's out with a new book that's called "The Nation City: Why Mayors Are Now Running the World".
Thanks so much for being here. Good too see you again, Mr. Mayor.
So, I'll talk about the book in a second, but, first, I want to ask you about Bernie's --
RAHM EMANUEL (D), FORMER CHICAGO MAYOR: Enough about the book. Let's talk about everything else --
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: No, no, I got some book questions, I got some book questions.
But I do want to ask you about the primaries that are going on right now. It's kind of a big deal. You don't think Sanders can beat Trump.
Now, the argument he gives is he gets out votes. He has supporters. He has crowds like you don't see. He had this huge crowd in Winston-Salem today, packed rallies. He's won Nevada, New Hampshire, won the popular vote in Iowa.
I mean, isn't he showing that maybe he can beat Trump?
EMANUEL: Yes. I say -- a couple things I would say. Since Bill Clinton's first election in '92, all the way through to 2019, the same strategy is applied in both President Clinton's elections, both President Obama elections, 2006 midterms where we had a big national win, and 2018 midterms, and also what happened in 2019 in what I call a metropolitan majority -- suburban/urban coalitions that work on health care, environmental control, all those issues that really create a national governing majority and the political majority.
This would basically take that entire strategy and throw it out the window and say that what we're going the see now is a turnout of young voters that have never been shown since the voting age was reduced 2018 and a return of working class, non-college educated voters to us we haven't seen since 1964.
That is a with -- not only the presidency, Congress, Senate, governorships, statehouses, that is a major risk.
Now, one other thing, 2018, major election for the Democrats. One of the biggest since Watergate.
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: Bernie's PAC, our revolution, endorsed 22 candidates, went zero for 22. Not even by fluke did one (ph) happen. In the midterm elections when our guy (ph) did it in 2006, a couple of elections you won, they had nowhere on the radar.
He went -- his PAC went zero for 22. That tells you in 2018 when Democrats are having this massive national win, gubernatorial races, congressional races, statehouses, that it didn't work.
Number three --
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: -- at the turnout model he's looking at has not materialized.
One of the things I'm concerned about right now is that while viewership in the debates are up, 2018, big turnout, 2019, big turnout for Democrats, participation primaries is not -- is barely surpassing 2016, and that's flashing yellow light. I am concerned -- now, it's only three. We'll see what Super Tuesday produces. But that's a concern.
TAPPER: Speaker Pelosi downplayed concerns from Democrats such as yourself today.
Take a listen.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Whoever the nominee is of our party we will wholeheartedly support. Our gospel is one of unity, unity, unity.
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TAPPER: Just to be clear, if Sanders is the nominee, you'll support him? You'll do whatever you can to help him.
EMANUEL: That's not a sense of calm, OK? That was a sense of, here's what we have to have as a strategy. So, look, again, take a look at England.
TAPPER: You think he's a Jeremy Corbyn?
EMANUEL: Look, we have -- in six -- we don't have one model. We have tested this theory six times successfully. I still believe the country is center left, but not left. I don't think there's 70 million people walking around saying, I didn't realize I'm a Democrat you can socialist, but today I'll a Democratic socialist.
So, that to me is a major, major, too much at stake to take that big a gamble.
TAPPER: In your book, "The Nation City: Why Mayors Are Now Running the World", you make the argument basically that Buttigieg or Bloomberg can pick up. You talk about both in the book.
[16:35:02]
That the kind of experience you need to be to be the executive of a city, to run a city is more relevant even than any other experience potentially.
Do you think it's more relevant than being a senator or a member of the House?
EMANUEL: Definitely. Since in the last -- since World War II, only two senators made it. John Kennedy, Barack Obama, they were in the Senate for an hour and a half.
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: And the most prominent office was governor.
We'll take a look and a step back. Right now in England, you have the former mayor of London. The first thing he does is a prime minister is a transportation project, a very mayor-like position. Four governors run this time, all got knocked out.
The last time we had a mayor was Grover Cleveland. You had five mayors run this time. Three are standing, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, and Bernie was a mayor of Burlington. And I do think what the government and experience you bring, the basic services that people want to see, is exactly what mayors provide.
And I do think -- take one example -- Mayor Pete won Iowa, but for obvious reasons, they get the normal bounce.
TAPPER: Right.
EMANUEL: Debate performance was OK. He comes within a point and a half of Senator Sanders. Why? I think that ad by Biden backfired. You know, all of a sudden, Biden's out there. (CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: -- as a mayor.
EMANUEL: It's a cobblestones, street lights. And people are like, well, that's government we can be -- that's, you know, government we can believe in.
TAPPER: You thought it helped Pete?
EMANUEL: Without a doubt. And I think, here's the other thing -- people's confidence in local government, 75 percent. People's confidence in national government, 22 percent. And what's going on with this disease is not giving them a lot of reassurance right now.
TAPPER: Well, the book is "The Nation City: Why Mayors Are Now Running the World". Mayor Rahm Emanuel, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.
EMANUEL: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: It's good to see you, man.
EMANUEL: Thanks. Nice to see you.
TAPPER: Delegate drama, new hints the Democrats could be dealing with a contested convention in the race for the nomination.
Stay with us.
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[16:41:08]
TAPPER: Just two days to go until the South Carolina primary, but it's Super Tuesday, five days away which could end various presidential campaigns and establish a clear delegate leader. That's because 14 states will get to have their stay that day -- their say that day, including the most populous states in the country, Texas and California.
And it's not just about who wins the most votes, of course. The states will award delegates based on who wins congressional districts. A candidate needs 1,991 delegates to become the Democratic nominee. More than 1,300 delegates will be up for grabs on Tuesday.
Let's talk about this.
Candidates clearly recognizing the importance of Super Tuesday. Sanders is in Virginia today. Bloomberg is in Texas. Klobuchar is in North Carolina.
But I think it's safe to say some of these campaigns are going to end on not so super Wednesday.
(LAUGHTER) JANE COASTON, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, VOX: I think that should catch on.
Yes, that for several of these candidates -- it's been interesting to watch this race and think about what the strategy is for so many of these candidates. And, you know, I cover conservative politics, and there -- you know, there is a challenger to Donald Trump, bill weld, former Massachusetts governor and his entire campaign has been about picking up candidates for Super Tuesday.
Super Tuesday is a demarcation point for a reason. And you're going to see a couple of candidates drop out after that point. And it will be interesting to see who it is.
TAPPER: And Bloomberg's campaign, Toluse, just released new information about his health, specifically his heart, he had a stent put in several decades ago. And he did that, calling on Bernie Sanders to do the same. Sanders, of course, has been criticized for not releasing more information after his health after his heart attack last fall. And his campaign tried to deflect some of that criticism by questioning Bloomberg's health.
Do you think that this issue for Sanders is essentially over because he's just said, I've released the same at everybody else, that's it? Or are we going to continue to hear more about him given the fact that he had heart attack last fall?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think other candidates will continue to make this argument against him. He has made it pretty clear he's not going to release more than he's already released. He's taken a very Trumpian tactic, where President Trump on his tax returns, on his health record, said this is what I'm putting out or in case of the tax returns, I'm not putting anything out, and just moved on and the news cycle moved on, and I think Bernie Sanders is making that calculation.
But I do think that Bloomberg and other candidates that want to draw a contrast between themselves and with Bernie are going to be using various things to try to attack him and his health. In fact, he had the heart attack three months ago is one of the things that they can bring up, and I don't expect that to end. I do expect some of these candidates drop out, so it maybe less of an issue if Bloomberg is not in the race a week from now. But I do think that Bernie Sanders right now being a leader, is going to be someone who everyone is trying to draw a contrast with and everything is fair game.
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I just got to say, this is the dumbest way to try to draw a contrast with Bernie Sanders. You want to go after Bernie Sanders, you go after him on electability. Just like what Rahm was saying, he has not produced the youth turnout he promises the Democrats victory in 2020. You go after him on the fact that he coddles communist authoritarians. You go after him on the fact that he wants to raise so many taxes he probably couldn't even list them in a one hour debate.
I mean, this is silly you're going after him for health reasons. Everybody knows that he has a heart attack. But Michael Bloomberg -- listen, I'm a Republican that wants to see a moderate Democrat get the nomination. The Democrats have a billionaire problem. Michael Bloomberg has not competed, yet he is drawing away support from someone who probably could win like a Biden, like a Buttigieg.
Why? Because on his billionaire quest to win the presidency on the easiest setting? I mean, it's just ridiculous. I'm appalled for you, but, you know, I'm not a Democrat.
TAPPER: One of the things that's going on is does, I think it's a question. And I realize, throughout my entire adult life, we keep talking about, oh, there's going to be a brokered convention.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
TAPPER: But it does seem like there really actually might be a brokered convention, and, in fact, listen to Elizabeth Warren, because right now, Bernie Sanders is saying, whoever has a plurality of delegates, whoever leads in delegates, even if it's not 1,991, should get the nomination.
[16:45:03]
Elizabeth Warren made it clear that that's not exactly her position. And, also, she said it wasn't his four years ago. Take a listen.
BEGALA: Right.
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SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The way I see this is, you write the rules before you know where everybody stands, and then you stick with those rules.
Everybody got in the race thinking that was the set of rules. I don't see how come you get to change it just because he now thinks there's an advantage to him for doing it.
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TAPPER: On the other hand, I can't imagine if Bernie Sanders goes in there with the most delegates, I can't even imagine the rebellion among his supporters if he doesn't get the nomination.
BEGALA: There would be, but his supporters helped write those rules. Senator Warren is right.
And I hear in that law professor the echoes of John Rawls' "Theory of Justice," which I studied in law school, which is, you draw the rules not knowing how you're going to end up.
And it is true, when he -- or when Hillary had the plurality, he was saying, no, no plurality doesn't win. It's a majority rules. And it has to be, because you are going to have to stitch the party back together. And so you have to get a majority of the delegates.
That may require getting superdelegates. Bernie was happy to go after them. When he was running against Hillary. He's going to have to go after this time if he is the plurality candidate.
But the notion that you can change the rules or that somehow Democrats are going to let Bernie's more radical supporters intimidate them, I think is a huge mistake.
JANE COASTON, VOX: But there's also every chance that he will win the delegates he needs to.
TAPPER: That's also true.
COASTON: And I want to get back quickly to the electability question, because I think electability is a concern that you're hearing from voters who aren't thinking about who they support. They're trying to think who the person next to them supports.
And I think that it's important for, one, vote for who you want to, but also after 2016 how do we know who is electable anymore?
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Nobody knows nothing, as the great William Goldman once said.
Everyone, stick around. We have got more to talk about.
Joe Biden claims South Carolina is his firewall. We're going to talk to some of the voters he's relying on and some of the voters he still needs to convince.
Stay with us.
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[16:51:00]
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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My son Beau was my soul.
And what I found was, I had to find purpose. He asked me when he was dying, promise me, dad, promise me, you will stay engaged.
He knew I'd take care of the family. But he worried what I would do is, I would pull back and go into a shell and not do all the things I have done before.
Took a long time for me to get to the point to realize that that purpose is the thing that would save me. And it has.
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TAPPER: One of the most moving moments of 2020 so far, former Vice President Joe Biden getting personal about his grief and his motivation during CNN's town hall last night.
Biden, who has called South Carolina his firewall, is making his final push for votes ahead of Saturday's primary.
And, as CNN's Arlette Saenz reports, with a less-than-stellar showing in the previous three states, South Carolina may be the place that Biden gets some much needed momentum.
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ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (voice-over): After three straight losses, Joe Biden is now banking on a state he's called his firewall.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to win?
BIDEN: Yes.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: Because South Carolina is the trajectory to winning the Democratic nomination.
SAENZ: The former vice president betting his longtime ties to South Carolina and its African-American community will pay off.
A new Monmouth University poll shows Biden with a double-digit lead over his rivals here, with the backing of 45 percent of black voters, who made up a majority of the Democratic primary electorate in 2016.
TOMI GREENE, BIDEN SUPPORTER: He understands people. He's dealt with death. He's dealt with single parenting. He really feels people, and especially what we, as black people, feels at times.
SAENZ: Days before the primary, Biden picking up a key endorsement from Congressman Jim Clyburn, who says the former vice president needs to win by a substantial margin.
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): One point may be a win, but I don't think it's the propel -- propelling that we need. I want to see a much bigger victory than that.
SAENZ: The 77-year-old Biden leaning heavily into his service alongside the nation's first black president.
BIDEN: I was incredibly proud to serve with Barack Obama, incredibly proud to be his friend.
SAENZ: First some undecided voters, that is a huge plus.
LAVONDA GREEN, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER: A lot of people associate him with Obama. And I think that they believe that he still believe in some of the things that Obama fought for and believed in.
SAENZ: Jaymes McCloud is deciding between Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg. He says older voters may feel safe with Biden, but young voters want a closer look.
JAYMES MCCLOUD, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER: We all know Joe from a can of beans, so it's not safe us. We're walking into this just different. It's just 100 percent different.
SAENZ: Biden's supporters not taking his lead here for granted.
Norm Dickerson has knocked on about 400 doors for Biden, rain or shine.
NORM DICKERSON, SOUTH CAROLINA BIDEN SUPPORTER: I'm going to do all I can, because it is so important right now.
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SAENZ: Now, after South Carolina, the contest quickly shifts to Super Tuesday.
And Biden will be hitting five of those states, including -- including Texas and California. But, ultimately, he is hoping for a win here in South Carolina to propel him into Super Tuesday and beyond -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz in the Palmetto State, thanks so much.
Breaking right now, new reports of a whistle-blower claiming that the Trump administration sent health workers to China with the wrong gear.
We will have more on that breaking story right after this.
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[16:59:17]
TAPPER: We have this breaking news you now.
A whistle-blower has come forward alleging that the Trump administration sent health workers to two California air bases to process Americans who had been evacuated from coronavirus hot spots without proper training or appropriate protective gear for those health workers, this according to "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times."
A lawyer for the whistle-blower tells CNN -- quote -- "We are hopeful that Congress and the Office of Special Counsel will investigate this case in a timely and comprehensive manner. This matter concerns Health and Human Services' response to the coronavirus and its failure to protect its employees and potentially the public" -- unquote.
CNN has reached out to the Department of Health and Human Services for comment. A State Department official just denied that report while testifying on Capitol Hill.
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @THELEADCNN.
Our coverage on CNN continues right now.
