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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Suggests Containment Measures May Be Too Extreme; Senate Again Fails to Advance Coronavirus Economic Bill; Interview with Sen. Doug Jones (D-AL), Why He Voted Against the Democrats on the $2 Trillion Economic Aid Package; St. Louis Fed Chair Warns Unemployment to Hit 30 Percent. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 23, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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LARRY KUDLOW, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER: -- and we're going to have to make some difficult trade offs.

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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You notice there, Jake, he doesn't say exactly what he believes those difficult trade offs are going to be. But what you're seeing is this split on the President's coronavirus task force team between the economic advisers and the doctors and the scientists.

You see people like Kudlow, the Treasury Secretary, other officials telling the President, you know, that having stores and restaurants and gyms closed like this is just having too great of an impact on the economy. They want to figure out a way to get younger people who they believe are not as much at risk for this disease to be able to go back to work.

But then you have the Dr. Fauci, the Dr. Burkes, these other doctors on the team who are saying if you let people go back to work too early, if you ease these restrictions too soon, it is not only going to A, not help contain the spread of this virus, but, B, it's also going to devastate our health care system when all of these people are having to go in and go to the hospitals and get treatment because they're conditions are so severe.

So, it is this split, Jake. There is a question of which side is going to win here. Right now, the indication is that the President is favoring easing these guidelines. But whether or not people like Senator Lindsey Graham, people who are saying, you know, the economy is not going to matter if the virus spreads and it's uncontrollable at this point. Whether those people are able to get through to him is the question at this point.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss this is "New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman who's out with a new piece titled "A Plan to Get America Back to Work." Mr. Friedman, Tom, thanks so much for joining us. You've been studying different options for how to help restart the economy. You feel like you've landed on one that would mean instead of the statewide stay-at-home orders, only certain groups of people would be restricted. How would that work and when would it happen?

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK TIMES" (via Cisco Webex): Well, Jake, this is a proposal by Dr. David Katz and it's actually a very tiered proposal which Larry Kudlow who actually told us two weeks ago the disease had been contained. So I think no one should be listening to him. The idea that he's out telling anyone anything is appalling to me.

Larry Kudlow and the President have clearly mangled. So, let me walk through with you what I wrote in my column, what Dr. Katz was proposing. It is a tiered plan.

It begins first of all with radical social distancing and sheltering in place, OK. He was proposing a 14-day period because the disease usually manifests within five to 12 days, so you know whether you've got it.

After that, along with it, dramatic testing, wherever we can. So ,we can determine the gross number of people actually -- as best as we can, the gross number of people who are afflicted with coronavirus and how many are suffering just a little, how many a lot and how many are tragically dying.

If it turns out that the statistics that have been emerging from China, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong are correct, that about maybe less than 1 percent actually die from the disease. This many are serious afflicted. Then we can begin to do what -- kind of a vertical process where we protect those who are most likely to be -- die from the disease, those 70, 60 and those with weak immune systems.

And then we can gradually, once we've actually kept people inside for 14 days and see who doesn't have it, gradually fold them back into the economy and get them working again, while also constantly testing.

The beauty of his plan, as I see it, Jake, is that what's totally missing in the country right now is any sense that we have -- the President went from it is a hoax, to it's a war, to I don't really want to fight this war, I want to get the economy back.

And people -- what business leaders are looking for, not to mention average citizens, is tell me -- just tell me you have a plan. Tell me if I need to shelter in place for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes, tell me you have a plan and that's what has been missing here.

We keep bouncing around and I believe what Dr. Katz has offered is one plan. I'm not a medical expert. I would love to hear from others. But it seems to me this is where the discussion should be going and Governor Cuomo this morning really endorsed this approach and I think tried to give it a lot more publicity, so maybe someone in the White House will be listening. TAPPER: So it is interesting because it's very different from what

we're hearing floated from people close to the President which is more of just in two weeks -- or in one week at this point just try to go back to normal.

This actually would impose a stricter stay at home quarantine order for two weeks to really try to stop the disease from spreading at all. Then aggressive testing which also does not -- I mean testing has increased a lot but you and Dr. Katz are talking about much more aggressive testing so people really have an idea where this disease is and then talking about trying to get to some semblance of normal.

FRIEDMAN: Folding people back. Exactly. Folding people back. Once we know from the testing, OK, this number of young people actually can be severely impacted by the disease, the vast majority, not that we know that, we're still not quite sure.

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This many older people, this many very older people. Once we know that and once we also kept people inside for 14 days and have a better grasp, again 14 days we don't know for sure either, we could begin then folding people back in the economy accompanied with more and more testing and temperature taking.

So we really are doing it on the basis of science and a real strategy rather than the President reading a column in the morning or a story and say, yes, I don't want to be locking up the economy much anymore, that's how I feel today when I felt something different yesterday.

That's crazy. And the idea that you have the National Economic Adviser giving medical directives and advice about the economy is insane, OK. And that is what we've got -- what is killing business in this country, Jake, and what's killing just the average person emotionally is they want -- they don't feel that there's a plan. That there's an end date. There's a strategy. That is what leadership is about. And that has been the real failure of this administration.

TAPPER: And just lastly, I just want to make sure and I think you've made the point very well. But if President Trump were just to in a week or two just say, OK, we're lifting these orders and, yes, everybody should go back to work. You think that would be a disaster.

FRIEDMAN: I think that would -- if you do that, on the basis of no data, and not on the basis of science, from everything I have heard from doctors, you overwhelm the hospital system. And then you really set us back. And by the way, the stories just beginning to emerge from Italy that their radical social distancing and sheltering in place may be working.

TAPPER: All right, Thomas Friedman, always good to have you on, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Democrats voting almost in lockstep against moving forward on the economic package, $2 trillion to help rescue the American economy. We're going to talk to the lone Democratic Senator who broke ranks and voted to proceed. That's next, stay with us.

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TAPPER: And we're back with the breaking news. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer telling CNN's Manu Raju that he is meeting with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin right now in the hopes of striking a deal for the bailout package. The economic injection into the economy.

This comes after the Senate failed to advance that $2 trillion relief bill for coronavirus, with all Democrats voting against it except for one. Alabama Democratic Senator Doug Jones who joins us now. Senator, you joined with Republicans today. You voted against the bill, debating it yesterday, why the change.

SEN. DOUG JONES (D-AL): Because I think there's great progress, Jake. That is exactly what the message has been from everybody on both sides. We've made progress. That was the message that I wanted to get yesterday because quite frankly I think we had about a 24-hour period where there was no progress, where Senator McConnell pulled his people off to write a bill and very little progress taking place in the 24 hours before.

But there has been significant progress in the last 24 hours. Everybody recognizes that and everybody believes we're going to get it done. I believe that we needed to really send a message to the American people and to both sides of the aisle that the clock is ticking. That we need to get this done and we need to get it done now. And the best way to do that is to proceed.

TAPPER: And just to be clear, this is just a vote that would allow debate on the bill. There would be 30 hours of debate and additions and subtractions. So, are your fellow Democrats just playing political games?

JONES: No, I don't think the Democrats are playing games at all any more than Senator McConnell is playing political games. We shouldn't have taken this vote, Jake. Everybody knew this vote was going to fail.

It should have just stayed behind closed doors and continue to work until we have a deal. Because when we have a deal, you're going to get overwhelming Republican and Democratic support and we're going to waive a lot of the procedural rules. We're not going to have 30 hours of debate if we could get the deal done.

We're going to get it done, we're going to send it to the House and hope they could get it done quickly and get it to the President's desk. This is just not the way the Senate is supposed to operate. I mean we should not be doing things like this and taking these silly votes that are going to fail, we need to continue to work.

And by the way, you know, the other thing, the biggest complaint I've got, no one should see my vote today on a motion to proceed to say we've got great progress. No one should see that as a vote of yes on a final package. The problem is we don't know what it is looking at. We are wanting to proceed on something we don't even know what it is. It's just games on both sides right now to be honest with you.

TAPPER: Well, that's what -- and that's my point, I mean you said Democrats aren't playing games any more than Mitch McConnell is but then you describe ways in which you think Mitch McConnell is playing games. So, games on both sides.

JONE: Yes.

TAPPER: Let's move into the substance of the bill. Your fellow Democratic Senator Chris Murphy said the bill as it stands right now would bail out corporations and not solve the public health crisis going on. Is he wrong?

JONES: I think that there is more money that is being put, as I understand it, more money will be being put into the public health crisis. I think it is the bill that was originally done on Friday would not have solved the public health crisis. I don't think it's solving that, I don't think it's helping city and state governments.

Republicans seem to be pushing back on that. Something I've really, really been pushing on. The biggest problem that we're seeing and I see this as a huge problem is a $500 billion fund that will go to the Secretary of the Treasury to basically do what the heck he wants to, without notifying or telling anybody or having any transparency.

I think we're making progress on getting more money to hospitals and health care providers. I think we're making progress on getting funds to local governments because they're hemorrhaging right now. They are on the front lines, they are bleeding just like businesses that we've got to do something with.

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And I think we hopefully are going to be making progress on some transparency of $500 billion of taxpayer money and how it will be spent.

TAPPER: What do you say to the American people who are watching this all play out and say, they think to themselves, even in a pandemic with the death toll is basically doubling every two days, Congress can't get its act together.

JONES: I tell them to go to the window and pull an old Howard Beale from the movie "Network" and scream we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.

We've got to get this thing done. We've got to make sure that both sides of the aisle come together. And they are coming together. I don't want there to be any misconception with these games that are being played with votes back and forth. There is a lot of work going on. And a lot of progress is being made. We are behind the curve on that progress because it was done so much

behind closed doors for the first week that we were here for the first four or five days. I really believe on everything I'm hearing -- and I just got some emails as I was sitting here waiting on you -- that great progress is being made. We just need to get it done and get a bill on the floor that we can get 80, 90 or 100 votes on and let's get on and get it to the House and get it signed by the President.

TAPPER: All right, there are a lot of people hurting out there as I know you know, Democratic Senator Doug Jones of Alabama, thanks so much for your time.

JONES: My pleasure. Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: While the Senate remains at a stalemate, right now the Federal Reserve is trying to make a major move to try to help the U.S. economy, as one Fed official warns unemployment could hit 30 percent.

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TAPPER: Our money LEAD now -- an unprecedented attempt by the Federal Reserve to rescue the U.S. economy in the wake of the coronavirus crisis. But with just minutes left in the trading day, Wall Street is in the red. More businesses are announcing layoffs and unemployment claims are expected to skyrocket.

I want to bring CNN's Julia Chatterley, our business anchor. And Julia, exactly how did the Fed try to help today?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS, ANCHOR FIRST MOVE: We often talking about a bazooka, Jake, when we're talking about the Federal Reserve. I can tell you that this was cannons, cavalry, bazookas. This was unprecedented.

They basically said that they will do whatever it takes to bring borrowing costs down for corporates, for municipalities, for the government itself. But they also announced all sorts of lending measures for big employers, for small and medium sized enterprises. They said, look, we'll do whatever we can to give an insurance policy here to the U.S. economy.

The problem is we don't know the terms and conditions yet. And we're waiting for the Congress, for the Senate, to agree on this package to see what the terms and conditions are. So that's going to be key.

TAPPER: If these emergency actions by the Fed are so impressive, Julia, why are stocks still falling? I mean the Senate will come up with some sort of compromise.

CHATTERLEY: That's a great question. So yes, we're still waiting for the Senate, which is a crucial part of this. But a lot of the measures so far have simply been focused on the financial sector and the real tensions that we're seeing there. But there's other things, Jake. This is just one of four or five

crises. We're not on top of the health crisis, clearly, doctor after doctor tells us this. We've got the ongoing economic crisis and the economic sleep that the country is in. And we've got the brewing jobs crisis which even now we don't have a handle on just how bad this is going to get.

TAPPER: The President of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis predicted that unemployment in the U.S. will soon hit 30 percent. We might be starting to see that cascade. Just today GE announced its reducing 10 percent of its U.S. aviation division. Ford suspending work at four more production plants. Bed Bath and Beyond temporary closing all of its stores. Zillow pausing its home buying program.

These are big brand names impacting thousands of jobs. How hard will it be for these companies to come back?

CHATTERLEY: A critical question, and Jake, it depends on how long this economic sleep goes on. And you know, I can tell you, and you've been talking about it throughout the last hour, there is an evolving conversation that perhaps the economic measures that are being taken here, with the economic shutdown, is imperiling more lives than the focus and the lives we're trying to save in the health crisis.

It's a painful conversation, but you know I spoke to the St. Louis Fed President earlier today and I said, look, let's say the Senate agrees to stimulus. Given all the stuff that the Treasury and Federal Reserve has done today, will it make a difference?

And he didn't back away from that number. That's 47 million Americans, Jake, that could lose their jobs. Imagine the consequences of that. They need to agree to this deal and get paychecks out asap.

TAPPER: Julia Chatterley, thank you so much, we always appreciate it.

The Dow is about to close, we're going to show you where it lands today. Plus, more than half the cases in New York are young people. What experts think might be behind that, that's next.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We are continuing this hour with our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. A pandemic that the World Health Organization said today is not just continuing at the same rate, it is actually accelerating.

The Dow closing in a moment. Down with Wall Street in its first day of electronic-only trading. The U.S. Surgeon General today warning, quote, this week it's going to get bad.

And indeed, the coronavirus numbers in the U.S. continue to climb, now more than 41,000 confirmed cases, that's up ten times from the 4,000 cases last week, there's also been a huge surge in the number of deaths, that number is now 501. This time last Monday, 70. About half those cases are in New York, dozens of people lined up

outside one emergency room in New York City to be tested for the virus today. As U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper warns that while he wants to set up military field hospitals in hard hit areas such as New York, the military cannot do everything.

In New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio is warning if the city does not get more ventilators in the next ten days, quote, people will die. It is not just the hot spots that are affected of course, the top official with the American Hospital Association tells CNN, quote, every hospital and every community is expecting shortages of critical supplies.