Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Pregnant During a Pandemic; How Dire is Coronavirus Crisis Globally?; Senate Nears Economic Stimulus Deal. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired March 24, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Trump and the speaker have not spoken in more than five months.

Specifics in this $2 trillion package are still a moving target, but items floated include $250 billion in payments to Americans, more than $10 billion for vaccine development, and $5 billion for funding for FEMA.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, as you noted on Twitter just a couple of minutes ago, it's been four-and-a-half-hours since Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer said they had this deal on the two-yard line. Senate Republicans say the deal has to be done today.

Are they going to get it across into the end zone?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it depends on what two-yard line you're talking about, or which team is playing, I guess.

But, actually, what we're talking about here is really the art of legislation or sausage-making on Capitol Hill. What's happening is that the two sides have agreed conceptually on some of the outstanding issues. Now they're going back and forth about drafting the actual legislative language to implement their agreements.

And then when one side shows the legislative language, the other side may want some changes. They go back and forth for some time. And given the significance and sweep of this proposal, roughly $2 trillion, affecting so many industries, companies, individuals, people hurt by this economic crisis, so much at stake, and so many people impacted it, it is taking some time to get all of the pieces in line and getting all the players to sign off.

And this is also only being conducted, the negotiations, between a handful of people, the top leaders of Congress, top administration officials, led by side Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. So they're going back and forth.

And each of these leaders have to brief their own caucuses about what is in this bill to ensure that all them could sign off, because if they want to get this bill done tonight, which is still the goal, they need everybody to agree to quickly pass this bill, because if one of them objects, then it could delay the process even further.

So a lot needs to still happen to get to that final vote, but there is optimism that this deal can be reached and that people could be getting paychecks as high $1,200 over a certain income threshold in just a matter of days, once they get this bill through the finish line here -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thank you so much.

New York's Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo earlier today slammed President Trump for not forcing companies to manufacture critically needed ventilators and hospital masks under the Defense Production Act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Where are the ventilators? Where are the gowns? Where's the PPEs? Where are the masks? Where are they? Where are they, if they're doing it?

When we went to war, we didn't say, any company out there want to build a battleship? Who wants to build the battleship?

That's not how you did it. The president said it's a war. It is a war. Well, then act like it's a war.

But it's not anti-business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump has insisted that American corporations are stepping up voluntarily, and that he does not want to nationalize American industry.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins me now.

And, Jeff, would more supplies be produced and available if the president actually enforced the Defense Production Act and compelled American companies to be making these goods?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, almost certainly the answer is yes.

And, as you said, companies across the spectrum have raised their hands. And they are trying to do what they can to help in this pandemic.

But the thing that's lacking is coordination from these companies. And we're talking to state officials. That's what they say is missing here is a certain coordination about what companies are supposed to be doing. And the supply chain is the most important point of all.

Now, when Harry Truman signed this law in 1950, during the Korean War, the point of it was, in the time of a crisis or an emergency, is to nationalize for a time a business, to have the government instruct businesses what to do, how to help and how the supply line goes. Well, one thing, we're told the president has been sending out mixed

signals for the last week or so. He says he's invoked it, he has signed it, but he's not put it into order because it's not necessary.

But, Jake, one thing that is missing is, is the supply chain sending things where they need to go. Now, some administration officials say that the Chamber of Commerce and others are saying it's not necessary, they don't want to nationalize these businesses.

But what is lacking here is the priority for these states. And that is what the open question is, is that -- beyond the point of even getting those things into the pipeline now, as Governor Cuomo was saying earlier today.

TAPPER: And, Jeff, it's confusing because President Trump says he doesn't need to do it. But then the president's own FEMA administrator contradicted him and said that they were using it.

ZELENY: Jake, that was extraordinary.

Within about three minutes' time this morning, the president sent out a message on social media on Twitter saying he did not need to invoke this act, those companies were working. And then FEMA right here on CNN, the director of a FEMA, Peter Gaynor, said that he did plan to do that for some things, for some medical testing kits and using some of the DPA language for masks.

So, still, at the end of the day here, Jake, confusion over what the president is doing with this. I think suspect, once again today, it'll be a central question at his White House briefing at 5:30 here in Washington -- Jake.

[16:35:05]

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

Coming up: the global toll. The situation so dire in one nation, an ice rink has been turned into a makeshift morgue. We're going to check in with CNN international reporters around the world.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our world lead today, Russian President Vladimir Putin in a protective suit while visiting a hospital outside Moscow today.

Russia reported -- reporting a questionably low number of cases of coronavirus, fewer than 500 in all of Russia, if you believe Putin's government.

In China, parts of the Great wall being opens back up for tourists, but, in Italy, 743 deaths reported in just 24 hours.

[16:40:08] In Spain, they have turned an ice rink into a makeshift morgue. And in an unprecedented move, the Olympics, of course, are being postponed for the first time ever.

We have reporters around the globe joining us now from China, Italy, and Spain.

Let's start with CNN's David Culver, joining me now from Shanghai.

David, the Chinese government is making it seem as though things are getting better. They're starting to lift travel restrictions. What's your take on the reality of the situation there?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You and I, Jake, have talked about questioning the numbers here. And I think a lot of folks have been a bit concerned as to their reliability, given, in recent days, we have seen fewer and fewer cases reported, in some cases, no new cases reported within mainland China, which seems tough to believe.

So what I have always looked for -- and a lot of folks here have kind of follow this lead -- is the action that would be taken so as to represent that. And we're starting to see certainly within the epicenter of all of this, Hubei province, that action taking place within just a few hours.

What do I mean by that? They're lifting some of the very strict lockdown restrictions that have been in place for now more than two months. Now, within Wuhan, Hubei's capital, those restrictions are still going to be in place.

So they're not easing things quite as quickly. They're holding on to them for another two weeks or so. But, essentially, what they're going to be allowing is folks to have a little bit more flexibility to move around, to go out of their apartments and complexes in some cases, and to perhaps even use public transportation.

That may come online within the next few days or so. That's a significant move. However, talking to people who are within Wuhan just a few hours ago -- I was on the phone with three residents who we have been in touch with from the start -- they say, look, when you open the floodgates, yes, it sounds great, but there's still a lot of hesitation and there's a lot of concern.

So it's not like you're going to see people rushing out into the streets. And the other thing is, Jake, they're going to be tracking people still. They have these Q.R. codes, and they're going to want to know if you're potentially exposed, and they keep tabs on all of us.

TAPPER: All right David, thank you so much.

Barbie Nadeau joins me now from Rome.

And, Barbie, the U.S. is looking to Italy, sadly, as a window into the possible future for the U.S., since Italy -- the rate of the spread here in the U.S. seems to be about 10 days behind where Italy is. The daily death toll in Italy was going down at one point, but now it's back up?

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We saw a spike, the second highest spike since this ordeal started.

Some of that could be because people aren't reporting in a timely measure. These health systems are overwhelmed. But we are seeing a trend towards fewer positive cases. We're seeing so many people recover and get out of the hospital. And that is such a positive thing.

We have seen greater compliance on these -- on the lockdown. And the government has just made that even more compulsory, because they have upped the fine from 400 euro to 3,000 euro for anyone who doesn't think they need to follow the rules.

And that's all going to work towards getting us out of this mess.

TAPPER: All right, Barbie, stay safe.

CNN's Scott McLean joins me now from outside an ice rink in Madrid, Spain, that was turned into a makeshift morgue.

Scott, Spain now has the third largest number of deaths, only after China and Italy. What's it like on the ground there?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jake.

It's pretty quiet here, as Spaniards are obviously still under order to stay inside of their homes. But that silence was interrupted about an hour-and-a-half ago when they came out on their balconies for the nightly round of applause for health care workers.

In fact, the people working here even came out in full hazmat suits to join in. This ice rink is being used as a morgue because the state-run funeral services are no longer picking up the bodies of coronavirus patients who have died, because they say they don't have the proper protective equipment.

And so the military is now stepping in to do that job. More than one in eight of all of the coronavirus cases confirmed in this country are that of health care workers, and perhaps we should not be surprised.

Hospitals are overcrowded and under-resourced. In fact, the Madrid nursing union is sending its membership a how-to, an instructional video on how to make a waterproof gown out of garbage bags, because there simply aren't enough. They're also reusing one-use masks.

There also are not enough ventilators. I spoke to a doctor just yesterday, who said that he is having to tell families that their loved one will have to die because the ventilator is needed for someone younger who is more likely to live longer.

And these are people who would likely survive if they had a ventilator and a proper ICU -- Jake.

TAPPER: It's a grim story. Scott McLean in Madrid, Spain, stay safe, my friend.

Coming up next: pregnant during a pandemic -- the new restrictions for women giving birth amid this deadly pandemic.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:49:10]

TAPPER: Welcome back.

We wanted to note something else that President Trump said today on his favorite channel, in which he seemed to suggest that how nicely the nation's governors treat him will have an impact on how much he will agree to help that governor's state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a two-way street. They have to treat us well also.

They can't say, oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that. We're doing a great job. Like, in New York, where we're building, as I said, four hospitals, four medic -- we're literally building hospitals and medical centers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just remember, when the president suggests that how nice and deferential a governor is to him impacts how much he is willing to help that person's state, these are decisions that will have impact on real people, life-and-death impact.

And there's a harsh new reality for pregnant women these days, who are understandably anxious about giving birth during the coronavirus pandemic.

[16:50:01]

In New York, the U.S. epicenter of the virus, which continues to grow, there, two of the city's leading hospitals are now banning spouses and partners and other family members, even the birthing coaches, called doulas, banning them from the delivery room.

Joining me now, Jesse Pournaras, a doula in New York City, here to tell us about the fears and concerns of pregnant women during this time.

Jesse, thanks for joining us.

What are you hearing from expecting mothers?

JESSE POURNARAS, LABOR AND POSTPARTUM DOULA: I mean, everyone is just kind of devastated right now. The world looks very different today than it did even just two weeks

ago, when the expectations were already beginning to shift. Hospitals had begun to ban doulas and additional support people. And now, in the last 48 hours, New York Presbyterian and Mount Sinai hospitals have banned spouses, partners, fathers, wives, mothers.

And people are really scared and devastated.

TAPPER: What are you telling your clients in order to try to assuage their understandable concern and fears?

POURNARAS: I mean, right now, we are making plans and making contingency plans. Some of my clients are planning on leaving the city altogether.

Some are going as far as Indiana or Rhode Island to seek medical services elsewhere, where they know their partners will be able to be included. Some people are choosing to do home birth now. And many of my clients are just hunkering down.

We are planning on setting them up with computers and iPads and other devices that can allow them to FaceTime me and their partner throughout the laboring process, so that they do have at least some semblance of continuous support, like they would if we were there.

TAPPER: And explain why that support is needed. What are the risks of a woman delivering a baby without her partner, her spouse, any sort of support system?

POURNARAS: Sure.

I mean, just having continuous support, it's been shown that it reduces the likelihood of having an unplanned Caesarean section. It reduces other complications associated with the laboring process.

But, more importantly, it's someone to bear witness, to be part of the process, and to help hold medical staff accountable, and to make sure that the laboring person's voice can be heard and is projected loudly, and that they get the help that they need when they need it in a timely manner.

TAPPER: Now, hospitals obviously are not doing this to be mean. They say that they're putting into place these regulations in order to protect moms and newborns from contracting the coronavirus.

What do you say to that?

POURNARAS: I mean, if a mom's partner already has corona, and they're coming in together, if they live together, that mom will likely have COVID, and their baby will likely be exposed already.

It is not common sense to separate partners from their laboring person, because it's -- it is not going to prevent the spread of COVID between those moms and those babies.

And, in fact, it can only increase the risks of someone laboring alone and unseen for hours, which is my greatest fear.

TAPPER: Am I right that this was prompted by the fact that one pregnant woman went in, and her husband had coronavirus, and he went in too and didn't tell anybody?

Isn't that what triggered this?

POURNARAS: Yes, from my understanding, that is what triggered this. And, of course, I'm not in the hospitals making these policy decisions. So I can't say exactly what the intent was behind it.

But from what I hear, that is the case. It was a knee-jerk reaction. I think it was a reaction without considering the long-term implications of this policy and all of the people that it impacts.

TAPPER: Yes. No, horrible, to be scared, a scared mother about to deliver, and then you feel completely alone and isolated.

Some doctors and hospitals have told patients that there could be virtual visits from loved ones, or doulas via FaceTime.

POURNARAS: Yes.

TAPPER: What do you think about that?

POURNARAS: I mean, it is a Band-Aid. There is nothing that can replace having some person in the room with a laboring person 100 percent of the time, someone that can react quickly if there is an emergency, or just someone to give them a hug and share space and love when they begin to feel out of sorts and when they no longer feel like they are being be cared for.

[16:55:01]

TAPPER: All right, Jesse Pournaras, thank you so much for your time, for your advocacy. We appreciate it.

POURNARAS: Thank you so much.

TAPPER: We have some breaking news, some sad breaking news.

We're learning now that the Tony Award-winning playwright Terrence McNally has died due to complications from coronavirus. He was 81 years old. He was a lung cancer survivor. He lived with chronic inflammatory lung disease.

He will be remembered for his award-winning plays and musicals such as "Ragtime" and "Kiss of the Spider Woman," among many, many others.

We're standing by now for the White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing scheduled for the next hour.

We're not sure who will be participating in that briefing. We're going to bring that to you live ahead.

Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:00]