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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Hospitals Bracing For Escalating Pandemic; Senate Reaches Agreement on Stimulus Bill. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 25, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now, these volunteers, they clean and refill these sinks daily, and the group is hoping to ship some to other states as well.

And if you would like to donate and find other ways to help, go to CNN.com/impact.

Our special coverage continues now with Jake Tapper.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we are, of course, continuing with our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. Every day, every hour, the situation in the United States becomes even more dire. The number of deaths in the U.S. still soaring. We are now up to 846. At this time last week, that number was 149. Now we're up to almost six times that, more than five times that, and we could still be a long way away from the worst.

A leading epidemiologist, one advising the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has estimated that the peak of deaths in this country will be three weeks from now. And if you look at the trajectory on the graph, it's almost too horrible to contemplate what that will mean in three weeks.

Of course, confirmed cases continue to surge, now more than 61,000. As we have been telling you for weeks, the U.S. is seemingly following the trajectory of Italy, though the U.S. is about 10 days behind Italy, which has so far seen the most deaths from coronavirus throughout the world.

Today, a top official with the World Health Organization told CNN that, even though the U.S. has the potential to eclipse Europe and become the next global epicenter -- quote -- "There is still time to turn it around," but only if, only if Americans isolate ourselves, and only if the government is able to conduct widespread testing to identify who has it.

A glimmer of what passes for good news these days came today in New York, when Governor Andrew Cuomo announced the rate at which people are being hospitalized in that state is slowing, suggesting to him that social distancing and other steps the state is taking are working.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live for us at New York's Jacob Javits Convention Center, which has now been converted into a makeshift hospital.

And, Shimon, the numbers Governor Cuomo cited are just projections. So there's no -- I mean, New Yorkers still need to heed caution.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Jake. People -- everyone across the world, the nation needs to heed some caution. And they need to be careful still.

There is that piece of good news that the efforts that are being conducted here in this city, in this state, all across the nation is working. And they're basing that off of models and predictions that health officials, state officials have been looking at.

And what they're finding is that the rate of hospitalization has somewhat decreased, meaning that, when they looked over the past few days, some of it has decreased. And here's what they said about it, that, on Sunday -- that, as of Sunday, there was -- the rate of hospitalization was doubling every two days.

And then on Monday, the rate of hospitalization was doubling at every 3.4 days. And then Tuesday, the hospitalization rate was doubling every 4.7 days.

It's doing for them exactly what the governor has asked. He wants to slow down the rate of hospitalization, because there is a lot of concern over the needs that people are going to need, the things that they're going to need in the days to come. And that is the ventilators.

There's a big concern over the ventilators. He's still stressing that, that this state still needs those extra ventilators. The other thing the governor, of course, mentioned was that this state has tested more than any other state.

And they're proving that that has been an effective model, that the more people they're testing, the easier it is for them to track where some of the positive cases are. And then, of course, there is concern, because no matter, what the hospitalization rate is still increasing.

And one of the biggest concerns here for the state is the number of patients, the number of people that are being treated in the intensive care units. It's over 800. That is the big concern.

Obviously, that number is expected to grow. And that is why, Jake, they need those ventilators. And the governor said they're working on getting those ventilators, and they're going to keep working until they have enough -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Shimon Prokupecz at the epicenter of the coronavirus epidemic or pandemic here in the United States, New York City, thank you so much, Shimon. Outside major hot spots, such as New York state and Washington state, there have been a surge of cases and deaths in the next front lines of this battle, states such as Louisiana, which now has the third highest death rate from coronavirus, nearly 1,800 cases and 65 deaths.

I want to bring in CNN's Dianne Gallagher.

And, Dianne, more than half of the EMS personnel, emergency medical services personnel in New Orleans, were exposed to coronavirus. And there seems to be a tie here to Mardi Gras. Tell us more about that.

[15:05:08]

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Jake, those EMS workers, they're all still reporting to work.

They're still responding to calls, while taking their temperature twice a day and monitoring for symptoms. According to the mayor's office, one-fifth of the city's EMS workers are showing symptoms, but at least at this point, they don't have any confirmed positive cases.

Now, you mentioned Mardi Gras, that this is a theory from the governor, John Bel Edwards, that, basically, he says, with people coming in from all over the country, from all over the world to celebrate in New Orleans, that -- quote -- "a fair amount of coronavirus" was seeded in that area during the festivities.

Now, part of why he has this theory, Jake, is because the first confirmed case of the virus in the state, well, that person tested positive 13 days after Fat Tuesday in the New Orleans area. Now, again, this is just a theory from the governor. But this is a state that is desperately looking for help and answers right now.

He's trying to get his citizens to take it seriously. They do have a stay-at-home order issued for the entire state.

TAPPER: And, Dianne, President Trump today approved a disaster declaration for Louisiana. What is the state up against in terms of resources and health care capacity?

GALLAGHER: Look, Jake, it's bad in Louisiana right now.

And part of the reason why it hasn't received the same attention is because these numbers have jumped so quickly so recently. I have been following this all week. And just from Monday, they have jumped from 800 to 1,800 cases across the state.

They have been dealing with clusters in retirement centers. And to give you an example from Louisiana's largest health care system -- that's Ochsner Health -- 80 percent of their patients in the ICU are on ventilators. On a normal day, Jake, that's 30 percent of the patients.

Right now, they're working to try and get more ICU beds in their hospitals. They say they put it in order of 200 beds two weeks ago. They're starting to get them in. So they're moving patients who are not affected by the virus to specialty hospitals, to orthopedics floors, so they can separate them from all of the patients with the virus they're seeing.

They're also looking at their own employees right now. They have got 25,000 staff members. So far, 60 have tested positive, but hundreds of others are showing symptoms. They're trying to get tests out as quickly as they can.

And just like everywhere else in the country, there's a need for PPEs, masks, anything they can do right now. Right now, Louisiana is in trouble. And everybody there is sounding the alarm, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much.

Also bracing for the impact of coronavirus, rural hospitals across the United States, ones that are already struggling to stay afloat.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now.

And, Elizabeth, there is a concern that some of these hospitals may even be forced to close. Why is that?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, rural hospitals, unfortunately, have been closing in recent decades because they're under such financial strain.

And this outbreak puts them in even more of a strain, Jake. And I will tell you why. These hospitals, a lot of their revenue stream is outpatient services or elective inpatient services. And so they have been told in many states, stop doing them.

So they have complied and they have stopped doing them. So they're their low cash stream is even lower. So they're being told, prepare for this, get more ventilators, let's get moving. But they don't have the -- they didn't have the money to do it in the first place.

And now they really don't have the money to do it. And, Jake, some of these hospitals, these are hospitals that have, say, one ventilator. These are small hospitals. Most of them have not been hit hard. Some have, like the one in Albany, Georgia, has been hit hard.

Many of them have not been hit hard yet, but they're looking what happened in Albany, Georgia. They're looking at New York City. They know that they could be next.

TAPPER: What can these hospitals do now?

COHEN: All they can do is, a lot of them are looking to their state governments and saying, help us out. We don't -- we're not some big hospital system that has money sort of stashed away for these situations. We were barely open before. Now we're having more struggle.

So, a lot of them are turning to the state -- to the state governments. TAPPER: Most of the cases right now have been around major cities

such as New York City, such as Seattle. Is it fair to say that hospitals in the big cities are better equipped to handle coronavirus?

COHEN: Sure.

I mean, certainly this is a shock for even the largest New York City hospital, as we have seen Governor Cuomo talk about, the lack of equipment, the lack of ventilators, et cetera.

But it's especially -- it's an especially hard blow if a rural hospital gets hit, because they had so much less to start with. And I think that's something that's really important for us to remember.

Also, it's really important to remember, when we say rural, sometimes, these rural hospitals are not that far from a big city. All it takes is for one person to go on vacation, they could start an outbreak.

[15:10:00]

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

The $2 trillion stimulus package is hitting a last-minute snag -- what that could mean for your family and your bank account.

Then, when working from home means working from the White House -- what aides are saying about President Trump's new reality.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Sticking with our health lead: The massive $2 trillion stimulus package may now be in jeopardy, with three Republican senators flagging an issue they have with the bill's draft.

It is the largest deal ever of its type. From what we do know about it, it would provide $1,200 checks perhaps soon in the mail for Americans who make $75,000 a year or less.

But those who make more than that could also see some money, and even more money will be very to those filing for unemployment for longer than normal.

[15:15:03]

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

Manu, these three Republican senators say that the bill might now incentivize companies to lay off workers because the unemployment benefits are too generous. Explain what's going on here.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly what they're saying.

They're making an argument. They're contending it's a drafting error. But this is not a drafting error. This was actually negotiated by Republican senators, the White House and Democratic senators, who believe that it's essentially necessary.

They don't think that it would lead to layoffs. In fact, they -- this is a temporary enhanced unemployment benefit for workers who do lose their jobs. But the Republicans are arguing here that they believe it would be an incentive for employers to get rid of their employees and could drive up the unemployment crisis in this country.

They're demanding changes to this language, those Republican senators, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, Tim Scott of South Carolina, along with Rick Scott of Florida, and South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham. All went to the mic just moments ago demanding changes.

But the question, Jake, is how far are they willing to take this? Will they drag this out for days, which they could do under the Senate rules, and prevent final passage for several days? They are not saying they're willing to go that far.

I pressed all of them about that. They said they want a vote, an amendment vote, to try to change this. So, if that amendment vote goes down, which it probably will, will they allow for quick passage of this measure? That is still uncertain. It's possible they could still get to final passage.

But that's just one of the number of wrinkles that continue to come up through the course of the day as they try to push this massive, far- reaching, historic measure through Congress immediately, Jake.

TAPPER: It certainly complicates efforts by Republicans to blame the delay so far on Democrats.

But let me ask you. Let's assume that, ultimately, these Republican senators drop their objections. Democrats control the House. They have to pass it too. Can't they vote on this right now?

RAJU: They're having their own issues as well, because some Democratic members have concerns about some of the elements in this proposal.

Well, they haven't achieved seen the final bill language. I should make that clear, Jake. It actually has not been formally introduced yet. There's bill texts circulating. But the formal introduction has not been released yet.

But I just caught up with one congresswoman, a key -- the freshman Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who told me that she is willing to actually force House members to come back to Washington to vote in person, if necessary, to pass this package.

Now, that is not what Nancy Pelosi wants to do. She wants to pass this by voice vote, get it done quickly. But she says that, if necessary, she's willing to do that because of her concerns with the bill. So we will just see ultimately if the bill addresses those concerns, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes, Pelosi very reluctant to bring 435 members of the House of Representatives back to Washington, D.C., given the fact that a number of members of Congress have tested positive for coronavirus

Manu Raju, thank you so much.

Let's talk about all this with CNN business anchor Julia Chatterley.

Julia, always good to see you.

The stimulus plan provides, as far as we know, $350 billion for forgivable small business loans. These companies are still going to need to go through an application process before getting a loan. Is this aid -- assuming that this passes within the next day or so, is this aid going to come fast enough for these businesses?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: It's a critical question.

Remember, I spoke to the head of the Retail Federation in the United States. It represents one in four employees in this country. He said to me, he's got many businesses that he represents. They have no money now. They need cash.

So if this takes even a week, Jake, it could make the difference between life and death for some of these businesses and, of course, for the employees that work at them. It needs to happen immediately, as soon as possible.

TAPPER: Passenger airlines could get $25 billion in aid from this bill. In exchange, the airlines will not be allowed to furlough workers, or cut pay, or buy back their stock all the way through September.

Do you think that's a good enough exchange?

CHATTERLEY: It's the only deal they have got, so they have to deal with it.

Aid is the right word. There's also going to be an equal sum for loans as well. Remember, industry bodies have said that this sector in particular, the hardest-hit so quickly, could lose up to $250 billion dollars.

So when you compare these amounts, you question whether it's going to be enough. My guess is, one day soon, some maybe this year, we will start traveling again. They can take this money and they can scale it up. And that's going to be critical.

TAPPER: And, Julia, this bill also prevents any businesses owned by President Trump or anyone in his Cabinet or Congress from receiving any of this aid, right?

CHATTERLEY: It does.

But I should be clear, it also includes the vice president, government workers, their in-laws, their children too. The key here is restrictions and strings attached.

And that is a similar theme with that $500 billion corporate loan too. Within 72 hours, we're going to know what they wanted to borrow it, for what they're doing, what the terms were. Oversight is the key here, with a capital O.

TAPPER: And, Julia, the stimulus package theoretically will put money in the pockets of Americans both through the $1,200 that they're getting back, but also more unemployment claim money.

[15:20:04]

But if so many of us are staying inside, and so many businesses and towns and cities have been ordered closed, then, even if you get this money, you can't necessarily go out and spend it. What good will do in terms of stimulus?

CHATTERLEY: I'd argue that people can spend online. So, this is one part of this.

But most of the people that have come to me, they have said, look, we're coming to month-end, rent payments, mortgage payments, car payments. That's what they're most worried about right now.

We have we have given them cash infusions, hopefully, with the benefit step-up as well, but we haven't overall, at the national level, stopped the outgoing. So it's for buying basic essentials, Jake. But if they don't need to spend it in the short term, the hope is that they can perhaps go out and spend it when we come out of this economic sleep and that will help kick-start the recovery.

TAPPER: All right, Julia Chatterley, CNN business anchor, thank you so much, as always.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.

TAPPER: It's not all bad news. There are also some hopeful signs about this pandemic.

We're going to talk to a medical expert about some promising data. That's next.

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[15:25:58]

TAPPER: We are hearing stories about children across the United States who have been diagnosed with coronavirus.

In Georgia, a 12-year-old girl is now slowly waking up from sedation. Days ago, she was fighting for her life after having tested positive for coronavirus. In San Diego, we're told two infants have tested positive. And an Alabama, an NICU nurse, a NICU nurse, tested positive, leading to a newborn being put into isolation as a precaution.

Joining me now is Dr. Ryan McGarry. He's an E.R. physician and co- creator of the Netflix series "Pandemic."

Dr. McGarry, good to see you, as always.

We tend to focus on the risks for people over 60, people with preexisting conditions, but this can seriously harm children too.

DR. RYAN MCGARRY, LAC+USC MEDICAL CENTER: It sure can.

Look, this is a dangerous virus. We have seen encouraging data that suggests that, for whatever reason, someday we may know, children, infants are spared more than influenza, which we have a lot more experience and knowledge with.

That said, coronavirus, COVID-19, has a very random variability. Unclear right now, in particular, why it makes some people so sick so quickly, and others not so quickly, often with mild illness, very random.

I have never seen anything like that in my career. I think a lot of my colleagues feel the same.

TAPPER: And some positive news, what passes for positive news these days, scientists say that the virus, the coronavirus, does not appear to be mutating.

Explain what that means and why that is a silver lining in this horrible storm.

MCGARRY: Sure.

Well, viruses are complex. They can often mutate and change. And if you're looking for a vaccine, that makes the virus a moving target. It's hard to make an antidote to something that's changing all the time. But if it's stable, that means that there's a target we can shoot for.

And so some of my colleagues who are pulling 24/7 shifts, literally tag-teaming each other in another lab, I think, are clinging on to this that, from what we can tell so far, stability is a good thing. If this thing doesn't mutate, that's helpful to us down the line for a vaccine.

TAPPER: While we have seen New York become the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic in the United States, the spokesperson for the World Health Organization told CNN this morning that there is still time to turn this around and prevent the U.S. from becoming the epicenter of the world.

Do you agree? Is there still time? And how do we turn it around?

MCGARRY: Well, we have heard a lot of war analogies lately, Jake.

And if physicians like myself here at Keck USC, my colleagues, my nurses, if we're the front lines, then I would argue that all of you folks at home watching now are our sort of our Air Force. You're our support. You're part of this battle too.

And imagine being on the front line knowing that there are sort of protectors above us and around us. That's what you're doing by following these guidelines to self-quarantine and have safety at home right now.

Without you, we have lost our backup. And it's really important. So, yes, I see a silver lining if we keep following these directives. That's a great thing for all of us here on the front line.

TAPPER: Can you describe what the scene is like inside the emergency room where you work this week?

MCGARRY: I want to quote one of my residents here at Keck Medicine of USC, who said to me -- I think a lot of physicians right now are going back to their medical school essays to remind each other of why we're doing this.

We're going back to the core of really what it means to be a physician, what it means to be a caregiver. There's a lot of compassion there. But there's also a lot of fear and anxiety among us, of course.

Like I said, this is a virus that has a lot of variability. And I think that's something that is scary. We have never seen a virus that one person on your left might give some runny nose to, one person your right is on a breathing tube within 24 hours. That's very scary for us.

TAPPER: And, of course, one of the biggest fears is that the United States is tracking about 10 days behind Italy.

And we're seeing doctors in Italy dying because they didn't have enough protective equipment.