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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Should All Americans Wear Masks?; Escalating Crisis; CNN Goes Inside Washington State Hospital Preparing For Surge of Patients; How The Army Corps Of Engineers Is Helping During Coronavirus; First U.S. Service Member Dies From Coronavirus. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired March 31, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin this hour with the staggering death toll from the novel coronavirus. It's now 3,662 people who have lost lives in the U.S. that's up from around 600 this time last week. From 600 to more than 3,600 in week. It's just 4:00 p.m. East Coast time. We've already seen 658 deaths just today, more than any other day so far.

Globally the death toll is nearly 42,000. More than 800,000 have been confirmed infected worldwide. And of course, the actual number is much higher.

And while experts hope this constant exponential growth of death and illness will ultimately slow, the peak in the U.S. still is likely weeks if not months away. And the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is now waring that there could be a resurgence of the coronavirus later this year, a second coronavirus wave in the fall.

Right now, Dr. Fauci says the task force is discussing what could be a major change for the public, potentially advising all Americans to wear masks when they leave their homes. The CDC has not said that yet but officials are discussing the possibility of this recommendation. It's something President Trump seemed to endorse last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not going to be wearing masks forever. But it could be for a short period of time after we get back into gear. People could -- I could see something like that happening for a period of time. But I would hope it would be a very limited period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: By now, you're no doubt aware of the lag in the U.S. in terms of testing kits produced and disseminated and lab results being returned. You may be aware of the shortage of personal protective equipment or,

PPEs, for our health care workers, and the fears about what an insufficient number of ventilators will mean when there is a surge of patients unable to breathe on their own here in the U.S.

Masks are already in short supply for health care workers. So masks for the public could be the next item the United States desperately needs more of. The question, will the Trump administration be prepared for that challenge?

In the meantime, as CNN's Nick Watt reports, cities and states are doing whatever they can right now to provide some semblance of relief to the millions of suffering Americans who have lost jobs and are out of basic necessities, such as food.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Pittsburgh, long lines at a food bank. In Atlanta, city workers on the front line now getting hazard pay.

In New York, today, the first patients arrive at that field hospital in Central Park, the governor calling on hospital systems and government to step up the game.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Time to say to that federal government and to FEMA and HHS, you have to learn how to do your job, and you have to learn how to do it quickly, because time is not our friend.

WATT: Here at the epicenter, the rate of new cases still climbing, but now slowing.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: But what we're starting to see right now is just the inklings -- and I don't want to put too much stock on it, because you don't want to get overconfident.

WATT: More than 10,000 coronavirus cases hospitalized right now across New York state, among them, Mia Mungin's 30-year-old sister.

MIA MUNGIN, SISTER OF CORONAVIRUS PATIENT: She's heavily sedated. They paralyzed her. So we're unable to speak to her.

WATT: Mia Mungin is a health care worker, thinks she had coronavirus, couldn't get a test.

MUNGIN: And I can only speculate that I possibly infected her.

WATT: Today, the White House Task Force is discussing whether we should all now be wearing masks if we go out.

FAUCI: The thing that has inhibited that bit is to make sure that we don't take away the supply of masks from the health care workers who need them.

WATT: Seventy-eight percent of Americans are now under some sort of stay-at-home order. Maryland just pulled that trigger. GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): One of the last tools in our arsenal.

WATT: Californians have been told to stay home more than 10 days now.

DR. JAHAN FAHIMI, UCSF: I think, quite honestly, the shelter in place and the social distancing is working, because that surge has yet to come.

WATT: But even with social distancing, one model now suggests that at the peak, mid-April, more than 2,200 Americans die in a single day.

CUOMO: The main battle is at the apex. We're still going up the mountain.

WATT: Hot spots now growing in Detroit, New Jersey, New Orleans.

COLLIN ARNOLD, NEW ORLEANS OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS: We're tracking at about 5 percent on the mortality rate, and it's just -- that's high.

WATT: And the economic price we're paying, hoping to save lives? Second quarter, about to start, the U.S. economy could shrink by 34 percent, according to Goldman Sachs, a cafe in Wisconsin, takeout only, of course, now giving away food for free.

CLIFF HOOKS, WISCONSIN CAFE OWNER: If somebody can afford, that's great. If they can't, well, that's fine, too. They still got to eat.

WATT: And we can't let up, not yet.

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): We can't let this monster come up. We have got to keep -- trying to keep pushing it down. And this is a critical time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, the first place in this country to implement a stay-at-home order was a block of seven counties up in San Francisco Bay Area. That was about two weeks ago. We have just heard from them. They are extending that nearly another five weeks through May 3.

And about a half-hour ago, the governor of California was asked if he had any regrets telling the whole of California to stay home so early in this crisis. No regrets, he said. The only regret he would have is if we cut the parachute, he said, before we land -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt in California, thank you so much.

Joining me now, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, the World Health Organization and the CDC are both recommending to wear masks only if you're sick or if you're caring for someone who's sick. But in other countries where they have done a decent job of flattening the curve, you see people wearing masks, and you see masks mandated for a lot of the population.

What do you think about this discussion going on behind closed doors? Should all Americans when they leave their home be wearing masks?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think we may be getting to that point, Jake. And it is a significant change.

[16:05:03]

One thing I want to show you, quickly. We have been sort of digging into this all day, last several days, as you know, Jake. From the World Health Organization's site itself, we found this.

And if we can put this up on the screen, it's basically a recommendation of what to do regarding masks in a severe situation with regard to a severe pandemic. You can read this. It says: "Face masks worn by asymptomatic people are conditionally recommended in a severe epidemic or pandemic."

That's the first line. That comes from the World Health Organization itself. So there is some history even among that organization of recommending these masks universally in severe situations, Jake.

And one could argue, obviously, that we are in that severe situation. I spoke to Dr. Fauci earlier today. I know you have spoken to him many times. I really wanted to see where his head was at on this. I know what he's been saying in terms of policy, but listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: They're going to ask your opinion about this. Will you recommend it?

FAUCI: From what I have seen, Sanjay, I think that if we do not have the problem of taking away masks from the health care workers who need them, I would lean towards it, because I think that it -- I mean, what harm can it do, if you have enough masks?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Jake, one of the things that came up -- and I and I think you will appreciate this point -- is, as much as the discussion has been public health vs. the economy recently, as Dr. Fauci and I continued to talk about this, the sort of trade-off here is public health vs. the perception, the optics that America is sick because people are wearing masks in public.

Culturally, as you mentioned, it's something that's done in many countries around the world, but might we be perceived as sick? That is one of the things that it's -- he's going to be discussing with the task force.

But he's definitely leaning toward it. And I think he thinks, the optics, we can get beyond that.

TAPPER: So, there's a lot of questions I have about this.

First of all, Sanjay, we don't have enough masks for doctors, nurses and health care workers. I mean, this would take the Trump administration working with private industry, a significant effort. And, to be quite frank, we haven't really seen a lot of evidence that this has been able to happen.

GUPTA: Yes. Sure.

TAPPER: I mean, we have some progress with testing kits, but we're lagging significantly behind in testing kits, lagging behind in personal protective equipment for health care workers, lagging behind in ventilators.

Now we're adding a new thing, when the Trump administration and the states can't handle everything else on their plate?

GUPTA: Well, I think Dr. Fauci definitely makes a distinction here between the medical masks, the N95 and the surgical masks, vs. cloth masks,, cotton masks, things that aren't typically used in hospitals.

He was very careful about this. And I think most people are. You're right. We have a shortage. So this is no way should be robbing Peter to pay Paul here in terms of masks. This would be a different sort of mask.

I think this is what's changed Jake. I think the past was, look, I will wear a mask outside to protect myself. That was the thinking. I think what is now guiding the thinking is that if this is spreading and asymptomatic people can spread it, then maybe the mask, even a cloth mask, can help somebody who's asymptomatic from spreading it.

It's still -- there's still not a lot of evidence that it helps a healthy person not get it. These aren't medical-grade masks. But if you can decrease the viral load coming from somebody who's asymptomatic or even minimally symptomatic from getting into the environment, maybe that could be helpful.

Obviously, people should stay home, Jake. That's the first-line evidence.

TAPPER: Right.

GUPTA: But if you need to go out, if there's some specific reason, essential reason, then possibly the idea of wearing a cotton mask, not a medical-grade mask, I think it's something that we're going to hear.

It's going to be a big cultural shift, I think, but I think it's something we're going to hear over the next day or so.

TAPPER: Sanjay, I got to ask you.

The president said on a phone call with governors yesterday that there's nothing wrong with testing in this country, that it's not a problem, he hasn't heard any complaints about it for weeks. That's not true. I mean, there are huge problems with testing all over the country.

We have heard about it from Democratic and Republican governors and health care workers all over the country. Are the people leading the effort to ramp up testing, to disseminate the kits, so they get the labs up to speed, they're aware of the reality, right? They're not living in President Trump's alternate reality?

GUPTA: No, I think they're absolutely aware of this.

I mean, there's -- we hear from colleagues all the time. I'm talking to people at various hospitals around the country on a daily basis, almost hourly basis, Jake. And there's still lots of people around the country who wants to get tests and can't get it, number one.

Number two, even health care workers in some of these places, who obviously need to need to know whether they are COVID-positive or not, oftentimes, or at least sometimes, can't get tests.

This Abbott Laboratory test, this 15-minus that people have been hearing about, is a big deal. But it just got approved on Friday. They're going to start shipping out 50,000 tests a day, I believe, starting tomorrow, April 1.

[16:10:10]

I think that will make a difference. But, at this point, I don't think we can say that we are doing fine on tests. And, Jake, I would even go so far as to say this. This isn't something you can come back up to speed on.

We missed a window here. I think everybody acknowledges that.

TAPPER: Yes.

GUPTA: You can't catch up on this, like you catch up on sleep or something.

We -- the early testing, what was key, it wasn't just testing, but doing it early enough. This will help, but you can't make up that time. You can only do the best you can now going forward with testing.

TAPPER: And explain why it's still so critical.

I mean, we -- outside the hot spots, New York, Detroit is going to be one, San Francisco, et cetera, why is it important for there to be widespread testing, tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people tested?

GUPTA: Well, one could almost make the argument at this point right now, at this point in time, Jake, it's almost more important outside the hot spots, because, in the hot spots, you kind of have to work under the assumption, as many health care workers and community members are, that the virus is there, it's spreading.

Health care workers actually work with this idea that everybody that comes into the hospital, whether it's for an infectious disease issue, or a heart issue, or a broken bone, whatever it may be, they all are assumed to have the virus in those areas.

In other areas, where you -- where the numbers aren't as big, there's still this hope with testing that you can identify who has it, isolate them, possibly contact trace, and prevent those places from turning into the same sorts of hot spots.

I'm not optimistic, nor is Ambassador Birx about that. She said, as things look now, those places that have fewer cases still look like they're following the same curve that we saw with these hot spots, albeit in a delayed fashion.

So I think it's important. And, ultimately, you are going to want to get broader surveillance. It's going to be important in the months to come if this particular virus comes back. But we did miss an opportunity, again, with regard to early testing.

TAPPER: And, Sanjay, I know this disease has affected a lot of people you know, a lot of people I know.

Coronavirus has taken the life of somebody that you really admired and really cared for, Dr. James Goodrich, a neurosurgeon who separated conjoined twins Jadon and Anias McDonald.

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: He let you and CNN into document the incredible journey. Tell us about him.

GUPTA: He was a giant of neurosurgery, Jake. He was just one of these incredible souls who was a fantastic teacher, but was also the world's most experienced surgeon, neurosurgeon, when it came to separating conjoined twins.

I mean, that's quite something to have that kind of experience lost. I mean, it's a cruel disease, as we know. It doesn't discriminate against who you are or what you do.

I think it was a shocker for me, Jake, I know maybe for you, as you have heard of people who've contracted the virus, to -- it still hasn't fully settled in that he's gone and that this virus is the reason why.

But it's a huge loss. He was actually scheduled to operate this week still, Jake. That's how fast this happened for him.

So, again, I hope other -- I kind of guess, in the back of my mind, Jake, thought maybe I'd get -- be in a position right where I, sadly, wouldn't know somebody directly who was affected by this. I guess we all wish that. But it's already happened for me and I know for so many others.

So just -- it's tough, Jake. It's just a real loss, I think for everybody, for humanity.

TAPPER: And, of course, our friend and colleague Chris Cuomo, who contracted coronavirus as well, although --

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: -- as we understand it, he's healthy as of now.

Sanjay, thanks so much. It's always great to talk to you.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Yes, I will talk to you tomorrow.

You can hear more of Sanjay's conversation with Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sanjay's podcast tomorrow, "Coronavirus: Fact vs. Fiction."

Sanjay always a wonderful addition to the show. Every day, we talk to him.

Coming up: a rare look inside one ICU battling coronavirus, the extraordinary steps the hospital is taking to care for patients while trying to keep hospital staff safe.

Plus: the Trump administration poised to reissue new coronavirus guidelines today. What prompted the change? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:40]

TAPPER: In the United States, Washington state now has the second highest number of deaths due to coronavirus, behind only New York state.

CNN is getting an inside look at one medical center in Washington state which is completely revamping the care for the growing number of patients.

CNN's Sara Sidner now takes us inside Harborview Medical Center with the doctors and nurses on the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. JOHN LYNCH, HARBORVIEW/UW MEDICINE INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL: It's changed how we run this (ph).

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nurses and doctors at Seattle's Harborview Medical Center suit up. To go to battle with coronavirus, they have to go through an exhaustive dressing regimen, hoods and tubes and masks and gowns, just to enter a patient's room.

LYNCH: We think the greatest risk, actually, for healthcare workers is when they remove things, that they contaminate themselves.

SIDNER: They have a checklist and a spotter helping with every step. They also have to adapt to new realities and shortages.

LYNCH: So, these are what are called PAPR hoods. These are the hoods that hook up to these machines that filter air.

They do get cleaned inside and out so they can be reused, because the way they were built was for one-time use, but that's the way -- if we did that, we would already be out.

SIDNER (on camera): Wow.

(voice-over): They have completely revamped two intensive care units.

LYNCH: So, this whole unit was meant to be for people with brain injuries and strokes and so forth.

[16:20:02]

And so, now, we have to move all of them some place else because we have to continue that care.

SIDNER (on camera): So, all the people with brain injuries were moved and this was turned into a COVID-19 ICU unit.

LYNCH: Correct.

SIDNER (voice-over): All to try and help coronavirus patients live, isolate them from others and keep the staff safe too.

(on camera): So, I am not wearing the full personal protection equipment because in these rooms where the actually COVID-19 patients are, these are considered negative pressure rooms. That means that we are considered in a safe space for not wearing full personal protection.

Patients are being cared for, but we don't need to wear the full apparatus unless we are a doctor or nurse who has to go into the room to care for the patient.

(voice-over): Inside the rooms the patients are hooked up to a shocking number of tubes, using those precious ventilators, the only thing keeping them breathing.

LYNCH: So, for the ICU patients, they tend to stay -- they get very sick, and they stay sick very long. So, you need to require ventilator for weeks at a time. And that's really the big issue.

SIDNER: Across jus their four hospitals, 60 coronavirus patients were hospitalized last week. Already, this week, it's at least 100.

For each one, a delicate dance to keep staff healthy and patients alive.

(on camera): It is just coming in here, and seeing the work that's being done and seeing the patients being cared for, it's stressful, it's -- I'm scared for their families as well. And so, as you walk through and you see the hard work being done and people doing everything they need to take care of patients, just awe-inspiring, considering the fact that they too could be putting themselves in harm's way.

(voice-over): Outside the hospital, a large tent has been erected to assess potential coronavirus patients. And this is happening before the anticipated surge here. (on camera): I feel dread and I feel fear and I'm not working on the

front lines. What are you feeling as you're dealing with all these COVID-19 patients?

ARIEL ROGOZINSKI, REGISTERED NURSE, HARBORVIEW/UW MEDICAL CENTER: Certainly a sense of anxiety because we -- right now we're kind of wondering what it's going to be like when the peak comes, once people are, you know, flooding in.

SIDNER: While the number of new infections in Washington seems to be slowing down, there's a growing sense they haven't seen to worst of it yet.

LYNCH: What they do is heroic. Going and taking care of patients without equipment is not acceptable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And they believe that the peak is supposed to happen here in the Washington area on April 19th, and that is why you are seeing a change here. This was actually the first hospital believed to have the very first death from COVID-19. That was more than a month ago, Jake, and everything has changed since then -- Jake.

TAPPER: Powerful reporting. Sara Sidner, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me now is Lieutenant General Todd Semonite. He's the commander of the Army Corps of Engineers, the government agency being used during emergencies to build medical facilities.

General, thanks so much for joining us.

I understand the Army Corps has about 10 contracts right now to help build and expand temporary hospitals. Can you explain to us, how does that hospital work, and what are you doing right now?

LT. GENERAL TODD T. SEMONITE, COMMANDER, ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS: Yes, Jake, first of all, I just want to say on behalf of all of us in the Department of Defense, I mean, our thoughts and prayers go out to all of those people affected by this terrible virus. We're proud to be part of the team trying to come up with a solution. So, what really is happening here is there are three problems -- there's a potential shortage of sites, a potential shortage of supplies, and a potential shortage of staff.

We're mainly going to focus on the sites or the hospitals. So what we have done is we were called in by the president to go into New York and help Governor Cuomo to try to figure out, how could we mitigate this shortage? What we are asked to build hospitals coming out of the ground in a couple of weeks. You can't do that.

So we came up with a simple concept to be able to go into existing facilities -- one was us hotels and dorm rooms. The other concept was large open spaces like field houses or convention centers, and to be able to build a hospital inside of an existing facility. The nice thing, Jake, about that, is you already have electricity, you

already have water, fire, you have all our HVAC, so we're able to put in a hospital a facility. What we've done is we've asked as of this morning to do over 500 assessments throughout several different cities and states and throughout all of America.

And right now, today, we're actually building nine of these out with a total right now of about 9,800 beds.

TAPPER: OK, so the Army Corps is setting up -- set up the Javits Center in New York.

[16:25:04]

And the Javits Center is now a hospital and they're treating the non- coronavirus patients. The facility you're setting up in the Chicago Convention Center as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, will treat COVID-19 coronavirus patients.

You previously worried a building that big, the Chicago Convention Center, might not meet -- meets the COVID standard. What does that mean the COVID standard? And how are you ensuring that it will be safe to have that many coronavirus patients in that building?

SEMONITE: So, first of all, the decision on how to be able to array your different type of facilities is a governor's decision and a mayor's decision. So, we go in with basically four different designs -- COVID, non-COVID, small hotel type arrangements or large room arrangements, and we provide those designs and let the state decide, what is the best application?

This is a state role, not the federal role. Our job is to help them understand what's in the realm of possible. Javits is a great example. Large open space, everybody going in there is non-COVID.

And you're exactly right, we were worried in a large convention center, we might not be able to bring the pressure down enough, seal the doors enough, where we could keep the contaminants inside.

In the Chicago McCormick place, and we're doing this right now in Detroit as well, the TCF Center, to be able to make both of those large arenas basically a COVID center. What that means, though, is the people that are working inside there, they have to be protected in PPE. So they're walking among the patients who are basically out in open bays but their protection is provided to them individually.

TAPPER: General, are you getting more requests for help from states and cities than you're able to provide?

SEMONITE: Right now I'm not. The White House has called me about every other day, saying, what else can we do to take care of you? Mark Esper, secretary of defense, has asked me, what else do you possibly need? I have been given the authority by FEMA to hire up whatever we need. We have 36,000 employees in the Corps.

All of our teams are right now with red shirts on, walking through whatever the mayor wants to be able to build out. And the main thing is this is not the Corps of Engineers. This is the entire federal team. This is FEMA, this is HHS. Great team work by the states and cities. The corps is just a small part of it.

But it's amazing to see down on the ground in the middle of a facility, everybody working for the same common goal.

TAPPER: General Semonite, thank you -- thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for what your fellow Army Corps of Engineers are doing, and let is know if there's anything we can do to help you do what you're doing. Stay in touch with us, please.

SEMONITE: Here's the biggest thing is expectations. We don't have time for the perfect solution. We've got to determine what is mission essential. And I tell my guys -- you don't (INAUDIBLE) to build this. Three weeks, (INAUDIBLE) of that city is and get it done on time.

TAPPER: All right, I hear you, sir. Thank you so much.

The first U.S. service member has died from coronavirus. The Defense Department announced that Army Captain Douglas Linn Hickok passed around Saturday. At least 716 U.S. service members have tested positive for coronavirus.

I want to bring in CNN's Barbara Starr now.

Barbara, those cases include an outbreak on a naval aircraft carrier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where at least 70 sailors have tested positive. Tell us the extraordinary sound of alarm that the commander of that vessel has issued.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, overnight, Jake, Washington woke up to a very disturbing message from the commanding officer of the aircraft carrier. It's currently in Guam. He's got about 70 sailors on board who are sick and a crew of 5,000.

And what the commanding officer told the Navy here in Washington is that something has to be done. He wants to try to get as many of those crew members off the ship in Guam, get them into isolation for two weeks, get them tested, and find out if anybody is sick and get them treated.

What the commanding officer is saying, the aircraft carrier, as you well know, is a very tight space, disease, infection, virus, it all spreads very quickly. He is deeply concerned that this cannot be controlled.

And he's pointing out, this is not a war. He doesn't want to see anybody -- it's not a war of combat, we should say. He doesn't want to see anybody on his ship die. He wants them taken care of -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Barbara. Stay in touch with us on that story. Very important what's going on there in the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

The White House decided to release the scary predictions of coronavirus in the U.S., that caused the President Trump to issue stronger guidelines. But believe it or not, some administration officials are not on board.

Stay with us.