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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 14,000. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired April 08, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: As Dr. Deborah Birx of the White House Coronavirus Task Force explains, there is new concern that Washington, D.C., and Baltimore and Philadelphia may be emerging hot spots in the United States.

Nationwide, there is growing evidence that the social and physical distancing and stay-at-home measures are in fact helping to alleviate the devastation in the United States nationally. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo saying that his state is beginning to see some results and it is starting to flatten the curve.

The revised projection by the University of Washington of the national death toll now down to 60,000 anticipated deaths by August. That's assuming the measures in place continue as they are. It's a reduction of about 20,000 deaths from the previous projection, and a significant reduction from previous ones that had it up to 240,000.

So far, the global death toll from coronavirus, globally, is more than 87,000 deaths, nearly 1.5 million confirmed infected. And about 420,000 of those infected are in the United States.

And while we cannot be sure of all the numbers being reported worldwide -- and, in fact, there's plenty of reason to doubt what governments such as China are reporting -- it is worth noting that, based on the available data, the United States, with roughly 4.25 percent of the world's population, has 28 percent of the world's confirmed cases of coronavirus and 16 percent of the world's reported fatalities.

As CNN's Erica Hill reports, some states in the United States are bracing for an even higher death toll than initially projected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A blunt assessment from the top.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: It's going to be a bad week for deaths.

HILL: For the second day in a row, New York state announcing a new high for single-day deaths, 779 on Tuesday. With morgues overloaded, hard-hit communities are bringing in refrigerated trailers and more help. In New York City, hundreds of National Guard members and more than 50

active-duty mortuary military specialists are now assisting the medical examiner's office. As states and cities reporting a rising death toll, there is some hope, projected deaths nationwide now expected to be closer to 60,000 by August, revised down significantly, thanks to social distancing.

The message from officials: This is no time to let up.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: We're all looking to finally get out from under this. But it's not that time yet. The progress confirms the strategy is working.

HILL: Washington, D.C., one of several cities now on the radar as potential hot spots, according to the according to the White House task force coordinator, who also singled out Baltimore, Philadelphia and Houston.

New CNN polling reveals a majority of Americans feel the federal government has done a poor job preventing the spread; 80 percent feel the worst is yet to come.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: More rural areas are starting to get hit. And I'm really worried, because hospitals in those areas don't have as many ICU beds, don't have the same capacity.

HILL: With each day, there is also mounting evidence that the virus is impacting African-Americans at a much higher rate, underserved communities also hit hard.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Whatever the situation is, natural disaster, Hurricane Katrina, the people standing on those rooftops were not rich white people. Why? Why is it that the poorest people always pay the highest price? Let's learn from this moment and let's learn these lessons and let's do it now.

HILL: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said the state will increase testing and research in minority communities starting today to better understand the disparity.

The Department of Health and Human Services announcing GM will produce 30,000 ventilators for the National Stockpile, costing nearly half-a- billion dollars. Those will be delivered by the end of August, as hot spots across the country face concerns about meeting the needs today.

Meantime, the conversation about how and when to reopen the country is starting, with a focus on antibody testing to learn who was infected, but asymptomatic.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: This makes a very big difference in really understanding who can go back to work and how they can go back to work.

HILL: Those tests could be available in the next 10 to 14 days, according to Dr. Birx, though, in reality, there is no clear end date for this pandemic.

Pennsylvania and New York following New Jersey's lead, lowering flags to half-staff in honor of the thousands lost to this virus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Jake, at the Javits Center just behind me, there are 104 patients being treated here. Now, keep in mind, there are some 2,500 beds, and there have been a lot of questions about why there aren't more patients in those beds.

[16:05:03]

Governor Cuomo said today that hospitals in the state are actually releasing more patients than are coming in. That's one good sign. Remember, he said hospitalizations are down. He also said, because there was so much preparation across the state, that they are not needing as many of the beds at this moment.

This is overflow space, as is the Comfort. So, in his mind, that is a good thing that not as many beds are being used at the moment, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes, the search for silver linings.

Erica Hill, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me now to discuss is, as always, CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, good to see you, as always.

So, this new model shows projected deaths down. And it's about -- at about 60,000, as anticipated, by August, an earlier peak for the virus coming in the next few days. And yet, at the same time that it's being revised down, we had the most deaths in a single day, period, just yesterday, more than 2,000.

Help us make sense of this.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that both things can be true. These are still models that they're looking at.

And, as you know, when you look at these numbers overall, you're seeing a sort of lag time, Jake. You're seeing these hospitalizations. And then people who are tested, they go to the hospital. That takes some time. Then if they, sadly, die, that's a week or so after that.

So it's a little bit of a reflection of time in the past.

I think what's interesting, when I really dove into these models, and talked to Chris Murray, the one that is sort of helping author these models, he's taking input now from other countries as well.

Initially, the models were really based on China and saying, hey, if we do what China did, where would our models be, and sort of realizing that we couldn't necessarily do what China was doing in terms of stay- at-home orders.

What's, I think, somewhat optimistic is that these other countries that have had stay-at-home orders, maybe not as strict as China or as early as China, have still had some benefit from that. And that has informed these models.

Jake, when I take a closer look, though -- I just want to make this point -- even state by state. I have looked community by community in some of these models. There's wide variation still, Jake. So, New York, for example, I think I looked at the variation. It was somewhere between 300 to 1,800 people who may die during the peak days, so significant variation at each level.

And so we have still got to be a little humble with regard to these models.

TAPPER: Right. They're not facts. They're just projections, based on the input of facts.

Dr. Deborah Birx, who heads the Coronavirus Task Force at the White House, she said today that the Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., areas are expected to be the new hot spots. And she also said she's closely watching Houston.

Is this just the virus making its expected way through other parts of the country? Is there something else going on?

GUPTA: I think there's a few things that are sort of informing that.

One is, are these areas where you have big international airports? And that was relevant because it's likely that there was introduction and seeding of the virus going back to January, early February.

And even now, a couple months later, you may start to see a significant community spread. We hope not, but you could see that. And, obviously, more densely populated areas, areas with public transportation, those are all some of the things that they're sort of focused in on, learning, obviously, a little bit from what has happened in New York.

But, Jake, to your point, I mean, rural areas, I think, cannot necessarily breathe a sigh of relief yet.

TAPPER: Right.

GUPTA: We know that if you have even a couple, three cases in some of these communities, within days, there's better than a 50 percent chance that it's going to start to spread, you're going to see increased numbers.

So this is the time to be vigilant still, no matter where you are in the country.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, people need to remember this all started, one person came into the country with it. Johns Hopkins University, which tracks coronavirus cases worldwide,

they changed its trending designation overnight to down for the United States, meaning that the number of cases is going down on the five state rolling average or five state information.

It's similar to current trending status for Italy and Spain. Is that significant? Or do we need to see what the next few days bring?

GUPTA: Yes, I think that the next few days are going to be really important.

But this-five day rolling average, I think, is a really interesting indicator. I have been following it for some time. And it's worth pointing out, as you say, the United States is down, so averaging these last five days, sort of made sense looking at the numbers.

The three countries, Jake, that I have been following are actually five-day rolling average up. China's one of them. U.K. is one of them and Belgium. But China we got to pay attention to, right, Jake, because we're talking about sort of emerging from the shutdowns.

Now, the numbers are still small, but you are seeing a five-day rolling average going up. So that could be concerning. And it may sort of prompt some more reinforced lockdown recommendations again. We will have to see what happens over there.

[16:10:05]

TAPPER: President Trump said yesterday he wants to open the economy with a bang.

Dr. Fauci told lawmakers today that the task force is working on a framework to return Americans to -- quote -- "normalcy."

What are the metrics you're looking at to determine how and when governors and others should remove their stay-at-home orders?

GUPTA: Well, there are some very specific metrics.

And, again, some of the people who are creating these models are also releasing some of these metrics. You have got to make sure the hospital capacity is there in order to take care of patients that continue to come in the hospital, obvious one.

The cornerstone has to be testing. Jake, testing has always been important. We know it was very important at the beginning, where you had an inadequate response at that point. It's harder to actually trace people who come in as positive now because of the community spread.

But at the end, at the downward side of this curve, testing, isolation, contact tracing is going to be very important to get there as well.

As far as coming out with a bang, Jake, really, from a medical standpoint -- and I think Dr. Fauci has made this point and others have made this point -- until you have a vaccine, you probably can't say that. I mean, I think that, for a certain point, unless there's an amazing therapeutic which people feel very comfortable with, I think for some time to come, we will reemerge, I think schools, universities, businesses like that or similar businesses.

But I think teleworking is still going to be a big thing. I think older people are still going to -- told, look, just limit the amount of time you're spreading out in the community.

I think there's going to be some basic sort of thoughts still about reemergence until that vaccine comes or a really effective therapeutic, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. I will see you tomorrow.

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: Be sure to listen to Sanjay's daily podcast, "Coronavirus: Fact vs. Fiction," wherever you access your podcasts. It's a must- listen during these troubling days.

Coming up: A brand-new CNN poll out just this hour, it's on coronavirus and your money.

Plus, Bernie Sanders drops out of the race, as CNN learns he's been talking to former President Obama. What we know about their conversations -- that's ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:44]

TAPPER: Breaking news, just in, the results of a brand new CNN poll are now in. It shows a sharp drop in the views of the American public when it comes to the economy.

I want to bring in CNN political director David Chalian.

David, obviously, it's not a surprise, but a lot has changed in this last month, with most Americans stuck at home. Give us the numbers.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You're right, Jake, it may not be a surprise but it is dramatic. I don't ever recall seeing a drop like this. In just one month's time, we've seen, when ask people -- what do you make of the economic conditions in the country today, are they good? Only 39 percent said they're good, 69 percent said that a month ago. That's a drop of 30 percent.

What is really interesting, also, Jake, though, people are optimistic it will be good a year from now, 67 percent in this poll say the economy will be good a year from now. That's about exactly where that optimistic number was just a month ago. So, while it impacted their immediate assessment of the economy, Americans are still quite optimistic a year from now they will be bouncing back.

TAPPER: That's interesting.

And, David, almost half of those in this poll say that coronavirus has caused them financial hardship. The numbers are even more stark, of course, when you break it down according to income.

CHALIAN: Yes, we're seeing so much about sort of socioeconomic status play out in this, Jake. And if you look at people who have an income of less than $50,000 a year, 60 percent of them tell us in this poll that they are experiencing hardship due to the economic fallout of the coronavirus pandemic. When you look at people who earn more than $50,000 in household income annually, it's still 40 percent. Four in ten of those are experiencing hardship.

So, like you said, you know, half the country says they're experiencing hardship but you do see the divide there economically.

TAPPER: Congress passed that unprecedented $2 trillion stimulus. President Trump signed it into law to help individuals, to help small businesses, to help companies. How are people reacting to the legislation that has been passed to help them?

CHALIAN: More than four in ten Americans, 44 percent in this poll say it's not enough to help people like them. Now, 46 percent say it is about right. That -- that is a pretty good sign. But that 44 percent number, Jake, who say it's not enough, I mean, that is why I think you see the congressional leaders very much already talking about the stimulus phases to come, that they're not done with this yet.

TAPPER: All right. David Chalian, thank you so much.

In our money lead, as the layoffs stack up and Congress continues to try to help the public, a new video shows a Small Business Administration official calling out the big banks, big banks that took free bailout money in 2008, and this official accuses them of now turning their backs on small businesses. The new video was obtained by "The Washington Post."

Here's a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH AMATO, DIRECTOR, SBA NEVADA DISTRICT: The same banks that basically took billions of dollars with one page from Paulsen from Treasury at the time are the ones saying the documentation isn't clear enough for them. So, what they're saying is, I don't give a hoot about the small businesses, what I care about is whether or not there's enough paperwork. It's just crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:20:02]

TAPPER: That was the Small Business Administration's district director in a webinar this past Monday. Let's bring in CNN business anchor Julia Chatterley.

Julia, that SBA official specifically named Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase. He says big banks are only offering loans to existing small business customers, leaving others with no way to get this money.

Are the banks doing that? And are they breaking any rules?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: The lenders of all shapes and sizes, Jake, are asking and saying that, look, the rules keep change even on a daily basis, even as late as last night we were seeing tweaks. They're right that the big banks are lending to known customers, they say, look, we have the data, we can prevent fraud in this case, and ultimately, it's going to be quicker, which helps. But there are many small businesses falling through the gaps.

These big banks have lent billions and billions over the last five days but it doesn't mean they can't do more and others can't do more. One banker said to me this week to that exact point, this is our opportunity to say, sorry, but the system needs fixing here too.

TAPPER: Uh-huh. Banks have committed $98 billion in loans since the stimulus program launched only last Friday, $349 billion are available, 349. We've heard about this overwhelming demand.

So, why isn't the number of the dollars given out already, why isn't it bigger?

CHATTERLEY: It's a great question. That $98 billion is for just the three largest banks alone, let's be clear. Wells Fargo is now going to boost that. But there are some immediate fixes that are required, from all the people I've spoken to.

One, U.S. Treasury needs to send a written note to the lenders saying, get the money out there, you will not be fined. The second thing, the Small Business Administration needs to process these loans quicker somehow and open up access to the community banks to let them lend more too. Finally, to David's point, cash. Congress needs to get more cash to these businesses, promise more, and then everything will calm down.

TAPPER: And you heard David Chalian talking about our new CNN poll, only 39 percent of the American people polled say that economic conditions are good. That's down 30 points in only a month. Obviously, it's been a horrible month.

From your perspective, do you see any way this number can improve anytime soon?

CHATTERLEY: Not in April. This reflects the shutdown. It reflects the millions of job losses we're seeing.

The key for me, and this is the good part of this, two-thirds of people still think the shock we're seeing is temporary, it will get better too. We have to protect that confidence at all costs. And we need to get cash to people, to states, to businesses, and we have to do it as fast as possible. We need a fix.

TAPPER: All right. CNN business anchor Julia Chatterley, thank you so much as always, I'll see you tomorrow.

There's hundreds of devices sitting unused that could be used to run a million coronavirus tests. Why are they sitting there unused? We're going to talk to an expert about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:27:44]

TAPPER: More than 1 million new fast coronavirus test kits from Abbott Laboratories, which could deliver results in less than 15 minutes, well, they're currently sitting idle. This as the Trump administration continues to struggle with testing nationwide, which health experts say will be necessary for any responsible next step for a way out of this nationwide stay at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: The lab directors can look in their laboratories, if they have an Abbott m2000, if they could get that up and running, we could double the number of tests we're doing per day.

That is a high throughput. The machines are throughout the United States. There's hundreds of them. Right now, about 80 percent of them are idle.

There's over a million tests sitting -- test kits sitting, ready to be run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now to explain and discuss, Dr. Celine Gounder. She's an infectious disease specialist.

Dr. Gounder, thanks so much for joining us.

So, help us understand what she's talking there. Dr. Birx says there are a number of test machines scattered throughout the United States. Eighty percent of them are not being used.

What's going on here and why aren't they being used?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, some documents that have been leaked would indicate that in fact there's an intention to purchase these tests but they weren't made it to the ground where they need to be used, and that the numbers of tests that were intended to be sent to state and local labs are only about in the ballpark of 5,500 tests. So, 5,500 tests, and those are going to be allocated basically evenly across states regardless of whether they have many cases right now or not. It's not going to be on the basis of population size or real demand. So, those are -- those are a couple of things. But I can tell you, you

know, if you're a lab director and you're sent one of these new Abbott machines, it's the shiny new toy in the lab, you're not going to let it sit there idle, you're going to put it to use. These things are not -- even once they receive them, are not plug and play, there is training that needs to be done.

And then there are a couple of other issues that are going to be frustrating efforts to scale this up, which is that the nasal swabs and other mediums we use to collect specimens are also in short --

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