Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Georgia, Oklahoma Among States Easing Some Restrictions Today; Gov. Roy Cooper (D-NC) is Interviewed About His Response to the Coronavirus Pandemic. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired April 24, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:05]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In Georgia today, you can now visit a salon or get a tattoo or go to the gym. On Monday, you'll be able to sit down at a restaurant in Georgia or go see a movie in a theater as the state of Georgia moves forward with reopening what are deemed nonessential businesses.

Atlanta's mayor told CNN today it's like living in the, quote, twilight zone.

Georgia's governor is not the only one pushing to reopen against the advice of top health officials, as CNN's Kyung Lah reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the U.S. death toll crosses 50,000 lives lost, some businesses reopening. Donning masks, barbershops are back. Defying public health warnings, Georgia and Oklahoma allowed doors to open at some businesses like salons. But some businesses refuse to open, saying's too soon.

KIERA JOHNSON, OWNER, STEEL MAGNOLIAS RESTAURANT: I don't want to take chances for my people. Most my chefs have children. And we all have to know that what we're going home to at the end of the night is safe.

LAH: In Texas, curbside retail is open.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I walk out to their trunk, put them in there, and go on the front seat, thank you so much for your purchase for helping us.

LAH: The state pushed to restart the economy, happening from the South, the Midwest, to Alaska, a real time experiment of the virus versus state policies. In South Carolina, department stores are now open with some restrictions. Wisconsin, golf courses, and some retail open curb-side. Alaska, restaurants allowed to open at a quarter of capacity, into the weekend and next week, more states open up.

Tennessee will be allowing restaurants to open at half-capacity on Monday, saying it's time.

GOV. BILL LEE (R), TENNESSEE: Our approach to rebooting the economy, it must be steady and methodical and empower opening in a way that doesn't jeopardize all of the strides that we've made so far.

LAH: Atlanta's mayor predicts it may be the end of local progress against the global pandemic.

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), ATLANTA: What I expect is that in a couple of weeks, we will see our numbers continue to rise in the state.

LAH: New York's governor warned the country must learn from our very recent history, as testing continues to be inadequate, says the National Governors Association.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: So what is the lesson? An outbreak anywhere is an outbreak everywhere.

LAH: That's why Michigan's governor, facing small but vocal right wing protests to reopen, is extending the stay-at-home order for her state until May 15th.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: So as hard as this moment is for us right now, as isolated as we feel, and as stressed as we are about getting back to work, reopening up businesses, we know that if we do it too fast, a second wave is likely and would be even more devastating.

LAH: In Los Angeles, California, a grim announcement that highlights the toll of this virus.

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES: And another dark threshold that we crossed is that COVID-19 is now the leading cause of death in Los Angeles County. Deaths are doubling every seven to eight days here in Los Angeles still.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: So given that grim assessment, there's no real discussion about opening up Los Angeles or the state of California in any real substantive way. But as far as what the reality looks like on the ground as these states are opening, CNN was across Atlanta, across Georgia, and found actually that a lot of businesses stayed closed. They couldn't find the supplies, the bleach, in order to keep people safe, or they simply didn't have the costs in order to reopen and meet those state guidelines.

But CNN did find beauty salons that were open, people that were lined up, people having their temperature taken to get their hair cut, and a bowling alley, Jake, where people were indeed waiting to bowl, and an alley owner said he couldn't believe he was allowed to open on phase 1 -- Jake.

[16:35:07]

TAPPER: He's not alone.

Kyung Lah, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me now is North Carolina's governor, Roy Cooper, who just extended his state's stay-at-home orders until at least May 8th.

Governor, thanks so much for joining us.

You said today you're particularly concerned about the neighboring state of Georgia because Governor Kemp is lifting restrictions. You're planning to speak to Governor Kemp.

What's your biggest concern about what Georgia is doing?

GOV. ROY COOPER (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, thanks, Jake, for having me on.

The virus doesn't respect state lines. And in North Carolina, we took early, strong action, and I'm proud of the people of North Carolina that they have flattened the curve. We're not going to risk the health of our people or our hospital system by opening too early. We know that if you just turn on the light, then you're going to have a real problem.

We're going to use a dimmer switch and we're going to use science and data and facts to make the decision on when we begin opening gradually. And we know we have a lot of visitors from Georgia, we love our friends in Georgia. But we're really concerned about how quickly this is happening, and we want to make sure that we keep our numbers as low as possible so that we can begin the process of reopening, because a lot of people are hurting out there economically.

I can understand the desire to want to open up as quickly as possible, because of all the people hurting. But we have to listen to the health experts on this.

TAPPER: Yes, I want to talk about the economic effect in a second. But just starkly put, are you worried that Governor Kemp is making decisions that will cost North Carolinians' health and lives and possibly set back your anticipated reopening timeline?

COOPER: We're very concerned about it. We know the positive cases probably won't show up until two or three weeks from now.

I was talking to people in western North Carolina, which is probably many of them live closer to Atlanta than they do in Raleigh, the capital of North Carolina. And they're concerned about their friends who go to Georgia and come back, and that it could end up causing infections in North Carolina.

You know, we're all in this together. And we need a national strategy. We need to work together to try to fight this virus. We're going to beat it at the end of the day. But what we want to try to do is to work together, and I hope we can. TAPPER: So protesters in Raleigh, North Carolina, this week were

calling for you to end your lockdown measures. We've seen some of these groups egged on by Fox News and President Trump, trying to get your attention. You acknowledge that there are people hurting out there.

What is your message to the protesters?

COOPER: I know you're frustrated. I know that people are tired of being home. I know that 725,000 North Carolinians have filed for unemployment insurance and many families are hanging by a thread.

But we also know that this is a life or death situation. And we have to make the call about protecting lives first.

We can do things to help the economy. We want to put those unemployment payments into the system. We want to get the stimulus money there. We've let a lot of other essential businesses continue to run, and that's important. And hopefully it can get us through this period of time.

But we have to listen to the scientists. And my three-phase program will get us back to a new normal, realizing that we're not going to be able to get rid of this problem until we get a vaccine.

So we're going to have to learn to live in a different way. We're going to have to learn to make our economy work in a different way. And we're going to have to do it through phases.

And we are looking at the science and the data. We are looking at the positive cases, the percentage of positive cases, the hospitalizations. We're going to measure those metrics and make decisions to go each step to try to make it like a dimmer switch and to get our economy back, going back that way.

And we're going to get there. I ask people to be patient.

TAPPER: You just announced you're keeping schools closed for the remainder of the school year, meaning theoretically you have through the summer to figure out a plan before students return.

How do you plan to tackle the reentry process for an estimated 1.5 million North Carolina students?

[16:40:06]

COOPER: Education is valued in North Carolina. And I'm so proud of the teachers, the teacher assistants, the bus drivers, the cafeteria workers who have continued serving meals to children who are physically out of school but were doing a lot of remote learning. And I did announce today that we were going to say that there were going to be no more in-person classes but the learning doesn't stop.

And what we have to do is to adapt to the new normal. We have to understand that we've got to get high speed Internet access to people in rural areas, and we're working with AT&T and Duke Energy to use school buses with hotspots. And we're also working to make sure that we can go back in for the next school year, getting our schools ready, figuring out how we're going to deal with teachers who are in the at- risk population, how we're going to keep our students socially distanced, how are we going to make it -- make the schoolwork in the new normal.

And we're working now to try to get ready for next year while we're still trying to make sure that kids learn as much as possible for the remainder of this school year with remote learning.

TAPPER: Yes, Governor Roy Cooper, Democrat of the great state of North Carolina -- thank you so much. Please let us know if there's anything you need us to shine a light on to help get the federal government to bring things to the great Tar Heel State. Thank you so much, sir.

COOPER: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up next, a CNN investigation. The new accusations that unproven antibody tests were fast tracked by the FDA and why one congressman says the results might be catastrophic.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:14]

TAPPER: First on CNN: A new congressional subcommittee report obtained by CNN says that the FDA is not doing enough to protect Americans from unproven coronavirus antibody tests, instead letting dozens of companies take these tests and make them public, with almost no guarantee they will work.

CNN senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin is digging in, in this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Slammed by criticism it slowed down testing during the early coronavirus outbreak, the FDA sped up the process for the next step by allowing dozens of antibody tests to go straight into the marketplace, most without FDA authorization.

DR. STEPHEN HAHN, COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: President Trump asked the FDA to remove all unnecessary barriers.

GRIFFIN: And antibody test is supposed to detect whether someone has had a novel coronavirus infection and recovered, even with no symptoms.

But, except for a handful which have been authorized by the FDA, it's hard to tell whether the hundred-odd tests out there work.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Basically, the results could be catastrophic for so many people. Just imagine someone who thought that they are somehow immune because of the president of antibodies, and then they go out and they expose themselves and they get other people sick.

GRIFFIN: Illinois Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi is chairman of a House oversight subcommittee investigating the antibody test market.

Its preliminary report obtained by CNN says, a lack of enforcement by FDA has allowed manufacturers to make fraudulent claims, that the FDA is unable to validate the accuracy of antibody tests that are already on the market, and FDA has failed to police the coronavirus antibody test market, has taken no public enforcement action against any company, and has not conveyed any clear policy on serological tests.

The FDA tells CNN it is policing problem tests, citing a statement by its commissioner the day after the FDA met with the committee. "We have and will continue to take appropriate action against firms making or distributing unvalidated tests or those making false claims, such as issuing warning letters requesting that companies stop their unlawful promotion."

Still, the Democrats on the committee insists the FDA's actions have led to a free-for-all, tests popping up on the Internet for sale, the congressional committee citing a report that a Texas emergency room spent half-a-million dollars on 20,000 tests from China that were worthless.

Congressman Krishnamoorthi says the FDA needs to act immediately and stop unverified tests from being sold.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: They should clear the market.

GRIFFIN: While the FDA has not banned sales, it has set up two pathways to approve tests. Just four of those have received emergency use authorization so far, though dozens of others have applied.

Meantime, companies are allowed to sell tests, as long as they're clearly labeled as not FDA-approved, to be used only in a laboratory setting.

But, according to David Grenache, chief scientific officer at TriCore Reference Laboratories, the rules are vague and require doctors to read fine print.

DAVID GRENACHE, TRICORE REFERENCE LABORATORIES: I have seen some e- mails from marketers, from salespeople who are quick to sell their devices. And, honestly, some of them are very deceptive. They make it -- they don't make it clear that these really should be performed in a laboratory.

GRIFFIN: Health experts say antibody tests are crucial in reopening the country, advising the public who may or may not be susceptible to further infection, which is why Chairman Krishnamoorthi is adamant about making sure that tests for sale work. KRISHNAMOORTHI: I fear that a lot of people are going to continue to buy these tests based on faulty assumptions, and then get faulty conclusions that could lead to dangerous life decisions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:50:10]

GRIFFIN: Jake, the FDA tells us it's constantly evaluating its policies, but this policy stands.

Right now, unapproved tests will be sold on the market, as long as they clearly say they should not be used as the sole basis for predicting infection, an admission by the FDA that they don't think they may work -- Jake.

TAPPER: Drew Griffin, thanks so much for that excellent report.

Today we're going to take a moment to remember some of the parents, spouses, children and even infants gone far too soon because of the coronavirus, including 4-month-old Jay-Natalie La Santa, daughter of New York City firefighter Jerel La Santa, and his wife, Lindsey La Santa.

Their only daughter was already struggling with a heart condition, but dad said she -- quote -- "went out looking like a princess," wearing a new dress that was meant for his FDNY graduation ceremony.

This outbreak has brought death to all walks of life, regardless of age and race and economic backgrounds. We remember those victims in their families' own words.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would give, like, these bear hugs that would, like, literally lift you up on the ground.

When we were kids, he was always saying, you know, I'm about going to buy house for mom. I'm going to buy a house, and we are going to put mom in the house.

And we used to be, like, yes, John (ph). But he managed to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a trailblazer working in Wall Street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom was a nurse for 38 years, probably doing the same for other people. So, it's amazing to me that these nurses were able to give back to her in that way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He loved to play his joyful Spanish merengue songs as he prepared himself to volunteer. He was a devoted member within the NYPD that protected and served the Sunset Park community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did the best she could. That's all you can ask, is that she was there for us when we needed her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:56:49]

TAPPER: In Colorado, Democratic Governor Jared Polis announced he is letting the stay-at-home order for his state expire.

But the mayor of Denver says he's extending restrictions for his city.

And that Mayor, Michael Hancock, joins me now.

Mr. Mayor, why is what Governor Polis is doing not the right move for Denver?

MICHAEL HANCOCK (D), MAYOR OF DENVER, COLORADO: Thanks, Jake.

First of all, the governor's guidance was tremendously helpful to us. It's just that, when we think about Denver, and why we instituted the orders in the first place, we weren't quite ready.

And when we take into consideration Denver's density, our diverse populations, the different sizes and types of industries that we have in Denver, entertainment complexes, sports complexes, we recognize that we have a lot of points we need to cover before we begin to ease back into this.

And I never surrendered on the importance of testing and contact tracing that we wanted to make sure was in place at least to a level that we felt confident we can give people assurances that they can go back to work safely, and that our consumers could grow in confidence that where they were going in terms of publicly would be safe as well.

TAPPER: I have cousins in Denver. Won't it be confusing for them and everyone else to have two different sets of instructions, one from the governor, one from the mayor, completely at odds?

HANCOCK: You know, Jake, what I have shared with the public here today, when I made my announcement, was, just make sure that you understand that our orders remain in place, nothing changes.

So, if you're in the city of Denver, our orders, or at least the orders for the city of Denver, didn't change in terms of the implementation date from the governor. So, the governor's date was April 26. Ours was April 30. We would have remained in place for four additional days anyway.

So, now they must just understand that the Denver orders will remain in place for another week or so, and until May the 8, and that nothing changes. Stay in place, and know that none of the locations that were closed during the order will open up, and none of the essential workers or essential operations that are open at this point in time during the order would have to close.

So, nothing will change until May the 8, or at least midnight on May 9. TAPPER: The White House guidelines are pretty clear about their

needing to be 14 days of reduction -- a reduction in cases.

Why do you think Governor Polis is doing this?

HANCOCK: You know, the governor, I know, is being driven by science and data.

He has a lot of good, very capable people advising him on public health issues and the data around this -- around the virus. He also has to balance the need of a state that has a very diverse economy all over the state of Colorado, as do I, as the city of Denver, but a much smaller model in which to have to govern and make decisions for.

So, the governor is walking the balance and doing what is necessary, I think. He's given guidelines, but he also recognizes, I believe, the diversity of the state of Colorado in terms of our economies, as well as the industries and the presence of activity in our communities.

And he's given municipalities and localities the ability to adapt their policies according to the guidance that he's given. And that was very helpful.