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The Lead with Jake Tapper

38.6 Million Americans File for Unemployment in Nine Weeks; New Virginia Task Force Developing Plans to Reopen Schools. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired May 21, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALLYSON BAKER, PARTNER, VENABLE LLP: And, unfortunately, in some cases, they had to lay people off, which is the exact opposite I think of what you'd want to hear as a program design called the Paycheck Protection Program.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And by the time that guidance was provided safe harbor for loans under $2 million and removed the threat of prosecution was finally released on May 13th, for Forrestel and the company his grandfather started in 1911, it was too little too late. The decision had been made.

RICHARD E. FORRESTEL, JR., CPA, TREASURER, COLD SPRING CONSTRUCTION COMPANY: Are we doing the right thing returning this money or be in the position six months from now, where I wish I hasn't done that? I don't know.

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MATTINGLY: And, Jake, I think the issue when you talk with small business owners, there is no right or black or white answer. There have been a number that have given their money back. As it currently stands, according to SEC filings, more than 40 with capitalizations over 100 million have kept that money.

What's right? What's wrong? Who is supposed to give back? Who is not to? It's a very question and that has led to real problems with business owners that need very real help, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.

There is another piece to reopening the economy. How do parents go back to school if schools are still not opened? I'm going to talk to the head of one state's public school system about the future of education. That's next.

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TAPPER: In our national lead, it was one of the first states to shut down all its schools as the pandemic threat grew. But now, Virginia is launching a task force pushing students back to class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM (D-VA): As we can safely get our students back into the classroom, we will do that. I am hopeful that our students will be back in the classroom this fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was Virginia Governor Northam.

Joining me to talk about this is the school superintendent of instruction of Virginia's public schools, James Lane, who's on the governor's task force.

Mr. Lane, thanks so much for joining us.

So, first question, as a parent how are you going to be able to ensure that this virus won't get into schools when you open up and infect kid, faculty members, and spread the virus even more?

JAMES LANE, VIRGINIA SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Well, Jake, first, thanks, for having me on your program to talk about the great work that our educators do here in the Commonwealth of Virginia and our teachers all over the nation. We obviously are not going to make any decisions about students returning to school until our health officials, the CDC guidance, the VDH guidance, Virginia's Department of Health's guidance and all of the data shows that it's safe for students to return to school.

As you heard from Governor Northam, we're going to make this decision not based on a timeline but based on what we know is necessary to keep our children safe in our schools.

TAPPER: So I guess one way would be theoretically on the first day of school or the day before to test every student, every teacher, every faculty member and make sure there is no one there who has the virus and then you know retake the test maybe every few weeks or every month or so, that obviously wouldn't keep it out, but it will give you a baseline.

Will you have enough tests to be able to do something like that?

LANE: We've been looking at guidance from other countries that have already started the process of opening schools. We've also looked at the CDC guidance and we've been talking with our Virginia Department of Health. We definitely think there will be a health screening component that's necessarily on a daily basis for students to return to school. The details of how that will look exactly, we're continuing to evolve and hope to have a plan on that public in the next couple of weeks.

TAPPER: A health screening component can be a temperature check or seeing if anybody has a fever. But we know that so many children can be carriers of this and so many people can be asymptomatic. So that doesn't answer my question about testing. Should I assume you will not have enough tests to do a widespread

testing of students and faculty members and employees of schools by September?

LANE: Well, testing is, obviously, a matter that will be determined by the Virginia Department of Health. Our focus at the Virginia Department of Education is on what structures need to be in place in our schools.

But, ultimately, we're going to follow their guidance. If they tell us we have to do a certain type of screening, if they tell us we have to do a certain type of testing, or if they tell us that we're going to do a certain type of temperature check, then we're going to follow that in Virginia in our school divisions. We'll certainly do what it takes to keep our students safe.

TAPPER: Are you trying, is the government of Virginia trying to get that many tests so the schools can reopen? Is there an effort to at least make the request, to get the swabs, get the reagents, get the labs and lab employees so this can be done so as this provide a baseline and provide some reassurance for parents and, quite frankly, faculty members who are going to be the most at risk that this will be at least watched and the most due diligence done before opening the schools?

[16:40:10]

LANE: Yeah, I think that as we talk to the Virginia Department of Health about this, they're focused on watching the trend data in Virginia, making sure that before we actually think about bringing students back into the building, that we've had a significant trend of declining cases for a significant amount of time before we would actually bring students into the building.

As we think about opening schools, I have to imagine as we look how other countries have done this, as you think our governor has been talking about this, it's going to have to be done in phases. And the first couple of phases of reopening our schools may require that we remain predominantly remote and virtual throughout that time. But like I said, I don't think that the Virginia Department of Health is going to require a level of testing that we don't have the capacity to do when we open it.

So I think that you're going to see a much greater focus on, and this is -- and the CDC guidance as well, a focus on screenings, a focus on quick checks because I just don't -- I don't think that the current guidance we are seeing out there is pushing for exactly what you are asking about.

TAPPER: OK. James Lane, thank you so much. Best of luck to you and the educators and students.

Mike Pompeo on scrutiny after firing the watchdog investigating him, the latest in what appears to be a pattern with diplomatic security once complaining they were Uber Eats with guns.

Stay with us.

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[16:46:06]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today: A group of top House Democrats is demanding that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo reinstate the inspector general that he fired.

The group accuses Pompeo of trying to undermine efforts to expose corruption, noting that State Department I.G. Steve Linick was ousted in the midst of investigating Pompeo on at least two fronts.

But as CNN's Kylie Atwood reports for us now, Pompeo continues to insist that those inquiries had nothing to do with his decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Good morning, everyone.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER (voice-over): Secretary of State Mike Pompeo stands behind his recommendation to fire the inspector general of the State Department.

POMPEO: I recommend to the president that Steve Linick be terminated, frankly, should have done it some time ago.

ATWOOD: But the nation's top diplomat refused to explain why.

POMPEO: We will share with the appropriate people.

ATWOOD: CNN has learned that the ousted I.G. had been investigating allegations Pompeo used a political appointee for personal tasks, such as dog walking.

And Linick had also been finishing another investigation into Pompeo's move to expedite an $8 billion arms sale to Saudi Arabia last year by ordering State Department officials to figure out how to justify an emergency declaration, sources tell CNN.

Pompeo called reports that he could have fired Linick because of the investigations he didn't like crazy.

POMPEO: Patently false. I have no sense of what investigations were taking place inside the inspector general's office.

ATWOOD: But the firing is raising questions about Pompeo's lack of transparency on a broad range of issues.

JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: He has a long history in the job of eschewing holding himself to account -- to accountability, to thinking that he and his decisions are somehow above scrutiny.

ATWOOD: Pompeo has previously come under fire for the administration's dealings in the Middle East. Earlier this year, after the U.S. killed a top Iranian general, Qasem Soleimani, in a drone strike, Pompeo claimed it was done to head off an imminent attack from Iran.

POMPEO: We had specific information an imminent threat. And that threat stream included attacks on U.S. embassies, period, full stop.

ATWOOD: But he repeatedly declined to give evidence.

Diplomatic security officials at the State Department told CNN they were not aware of any imminent threat.

POMPEO: Any time a president makes a decision of this magnitude, there are multiple pieces of information that come before us.

ATWOOD: Pompeo has faced similar transparency questions over his response to the COVID-19 pandemic, going from saying he had seen enormous evidence that the virus leaked accidentally from a Chinese government-affiliated lab:

POMPEO: I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.

ATWOOD: To pulling back and saying he couldn't be certain.

POMPEO: We know it began in Wuhan, but we don't know from where or from whom.

ATWOOD: He never cited the specific evidence he claimed to have seen.

Pompeo has often dodged questions from the press on key issues, at times ditching the reporters traveling with him on diplomatic trips, and at one point meeting with Republican political donors on a trip to London.

That wasn't on his schedule, fueling questions about whether his frequent taxpayer-funded trips to his home state of Kansas in 2019, which were billed as promoting diplomacy in the heartland, were serving his personal political ambitions, at a time when he had been considering running for the open Senate seat in his home state, a move he ultimately decided against.

KIRBY: Given the swirl of speculation about Mr. Pompeo's potential run for Senate, which existed over the last several months, given that public discussion and debate, I think it would -- it was more incumbent upon him to be even more forthcoming about why he was trapped traveling domestically, what the purpose was, and what he was trying to get out of it.

[16:50:03]

ATWOOD: Further questions about his travel have come to the forefront, including a visit to Israel a week ago to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Department employees questioned why it was a top-priority visit, one saying he went for a lovefest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ATWOOD: Those allegations, Jake, follow a similar pattern.

Last year, it was congressional Democrats that opened an investigation into allegations that Secretary Pompeo was using diplomatic security for personal errands, things like picking up Chinese food. And diplomatic security agents complained that they were Uber Eats with guns.

Now, the State Department has not replied to our requests for comment with regard to our reporting on questions surrounding transparency -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kylie Atwood, thank you so much.

In other Cabinet news today, Texas Republican Congressman John Ratcliffe is expected to be sworn in as the next director of national intelligence on Tuesday. A fierce defender and loyalist of President Trump, Ratcliffe was confirmed by the U.S. Senate today in a 49-44 party-line vote, the first time that's happened for the top intelligence job.

In the past, there were never more than a dozen senators who voted against a nominee.

Coming up, there are now more new coronavirus cases being reported in Latin America than anywhere else in the world. We're going to go live on the ground to Brazil next.

Stay with us.

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[16:55:38]

TAPPER: In our world lead today: Latin America is quickly becoming a new coronavirus hot spot, as cases surge in the region, surpassing the U.S. and Europe for weekly number of reported cases.

Brazil has just seen its largest one-day increase in cases, reporting nearly 20,000 new cases on Wednesday, bringing the total to more than 48,000 nationwide.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins me now live from Sao Paulo.

And, Nick, the Brazilian government has authorized the use of hydroxychloroquine for all patients experiencing coronavirus symptoms, this despite health warnings that it might not do anything.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Absolutely.

And it's part of the generally conflicting advice that many Brazilians are getting from their government, not least from Jair Bolsonaro, the president, who played down coronavirus as a little flu or a cold, and is also, it seems, behind a lot of the push by his government to make sure that hydroxychloroquine is part of the approved medication here.

Now, that push did, it seems, contribute to the resignation of one of his health ministers just recently. And now it appears to be fully part of a recommended medication even for people who don't have severe coronavirus.

I should repeat, it is not approved by the U.S. FDA. In fact, there are some suggestions it may in fact be bad for patients with other health conditions too. And there's no proven medicine -- medical fact suggesting that in fact it does certainly impede coronavirus, although President Donald Trump has himself recently said he's taking it.

But Brazil here experiencing extraordinary numbers, often, frankly, not the entire picture, because testing isn't as widespread as they would like here, nearly 20,000 on Wednesday, 888 dead that day.

And I think it's not really what we're seeing in Sao Paulo here, its biggest city, where the hot spot is, Jake, that is emblematic of the country's response, because they're now wearing masks. Their shops are now shut.

It's really what happened two weeks ago that I think has got many concerned that -- where it wasn't taken as seriously across the country as it could be.

And we were at a graveyard today, Jake. It was staggering to see on the hills of Sao Paolo thousands of freshly dug holes. They expect the peak to hit here in a week, possibly two weeks, and those holes, sadly, to be filled.

When we were there, there were about a funeral every 10 minutes.

TAPPER: Those images are just awful.

The president of Brazil has been highly criticized for his handling of the virus, as you noted, Nick. Is he still promoting the protests against the stay-at-home orders?

WALSH: It's the whole balance between health and wealth.

I mean, there is clearly here in Brazil a slight change in people's attitudes, including the government's, because they're seeing the extent of the damage it's doing to the population already.

But as recently as about a week ago, he was quite clearly saying that the economy would potentially result in many lives being lost as well if it wasn't allowed to continue.

So, here in Sao Paulo, the local governments are clear in the measures they need to take, because, frankly, they can see the impact of the virus around them. But I should stress, Jake, the rest of the world is possibly seeing its peak now or has its peak behind it, certainly, the U.S. and Europe. That peak is just coming. We were at an ICU today, one of the better ones here in Sao Paulo, the biggest ones. And they said to us that they are already full. Now, that is a stark indication of what is the next week or two, when the doctors there said they think they will start to see the peak here in Sao Paulo, Brazil's biggest city.

They simply won't have the beds. And so for them to be full before that moment is deeply troubling for anyone here -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Paton Walsh in Sao Paulo, stay safe.

Finally from us today, we want to remember a retired White House butler who worked for 11 U.S. presidents. He is one of the latest victims of coronavirus, Wilson Jerman.

He died this past Saturday. He started at the White House as a cleaner in 1957 under President Eisenhower. When the Kennedys moved in, first lady Jackie Kennedy promoted him to butler, a title he served with pride for three decades.

Jerman had five children, 12 grandchildren, 18 great-grandchildren. He tried to retire in 1997. But Jerman told Kate Andersen Brower, author of the book "Team of Five," he missed the White House too much. So he returned to the White House in 2003 as part-time doorman.

His family says Jerman left the White House a second time in 2012 as maitre d', the head butler under then President Barack Obama.

Wilson Jerman was 91 years old. May his memory be a blessing.

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