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The Lead with Jake Tapper

CDC Director Testifies, Concerned Public Health Messaging is Not Resonating; Large Study of Hydroxychloroquine in Virus Patients Retracted. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired June 04, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You've been outspoken about concerns you have about President Trump's leadership for quite some time. You obviously endorsed Hillary Clinton in 2016.

General Mattis, who is a fellow four star marine general like yourself, and served as secretary of defense for Trump, finally gave his most critical comments yet. He issued a statement in which he said some very tough things, including that President Trump is somebody -- the only president he's seen who seeks to divide the American people instead of uniting the American people.

Do you share Mattis' concern? Have you talked to him?

GEN. JOHN ALLEN (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: No, I haven't. I'm not going to. What I don't want to do is create an environment where we're all comparing notes and trying to come out with a single message on this. My view on this is independent of his, but I share his views on this matter.

I fought in the overseas wars. And I never believed that the Constitution was under threat until recently. I have concerns about that. We should all be attentive right now to how the rule of law is being administered in this country. And this is -- this was the basis for my writing this paper that I wrote recently that was just published.

TAPPER: Retired four-star General John Allen, as always, thank you for your service and thanks for your time today, sir. We appreciate it.

ALLEN: Thank -- thank you, Jake. Thanks for what you're doing.

TAPPER: Today, the head of the CDC testifying before Congress under fire for the early handling of the testing for coronavirus.

Coming up next, a CNN investigation reveals it's not the first time that Dr. Redfield has been mired in controversy.

Stay with us.

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[16:36:38]

TAPPER: Nearly 2 million people in America have been infected by coronavirus. The U.S. death toll stands at now more than 107,000.

On Capitol Hill this morning, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said he is concerned the CDC public health message is not resonating after seeing images of thousands of Americans not wearing masks or social distancing whether at protests or beaches, as Kristen Holmes reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After months of near silence during the global coronavirus pandemic, the head of America's top health agency finally speaking out.

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: As you know, we've now done over 17 million tests.

HOLMES: CDC Dr. Robert Redfield testified before Congress today, defending his agency which was criticized for faulty COVID tests in the early days of the outbreak. As the virus spread unchecked across the country.

REDFIELD: The CDC developed within ten days a test from the time the sequence was published. And that test is not a flawed test. It works perfectly.

HOLMES: The coronavirus pandemic isn't the first time Redfield has been embroiled in a controversy during a national health crisis. In 1992, the height of the AIDS epidemic in America, the then army doctor and top AIDS researcher was involved in another scandal. Redfield presented findings from a study he was doing on a vaccine treatment for HIV at a prestigious AIDS conference.

Dozens of interviews and internal documents obtained and reviewed by CNN revealed fellow researchers accused Redfield of scientific misconduct, claiming he oversold the data and cherry-picked the results. Multiple officials attempted to rerun his numbers but failed to replicate the same results he had. In internal military memo calling for an investigation shows that Redfield continued to publicly tout the data despite assurances in private meetings that he understood his past presentations to be in error and he would refrain from repeating that error.

After a months-long investigation, the Army did not charge Redfield with scientific misconduct. But the then-lieutenant colonel was found in violation of Army code for his relationship with a conservative AIDS organization run by evangelist Shepherd Smith. Redfield served on the group's scientific advisory board.

The Army determines Smith's organization received information from Redfield and his lab to a degree that is inappropriate and that the group appeared to be an outlet for marketing Lieutenant Colonel Redfield's research. It hung over him until his retirement from the Army in 1996. Years before ending up on the short list to become President Trump's

CDC director.

REDFIELD: Thank you, Mr. President.

HOLMES: Several former collaborators told CNN they did not think Redfield was a good fit for the job. Now amidst the COVID pandemic, some CDC officials describe a deep frustration with Redfield, blaming him for the sidelining of the agency and not doing more to advocate on its behalf.

One doctor who retired from the CDC in 2019 said that under Redfield, the agency had been handicapped and lamented that Redfield is not as visible as some of his predecessors. From the outside, we don't see him, we don't hear him. He often doesn't even come to the White House press conference. When he does, it's usually as wallpaper, silent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: So, Jake, some pretty harsh words there.

[16:40:01]

I do want to note that Redfield today actually applauded the CDC when he was asked about testing, saying that all of those problems with testing were fixed within about five weeks. He called that an accomplishment.

Now, one Republican congresswoman pushed back on him saying what we've been reporting, of course, for the last several months, which is those were the critical weeks that the country needed to get out ahead of the virus, something that they never were able to do. Now, when it comes to Redfield standing within the administration, right now, one senior administration official tells me that the president does still have confidence in Redfield -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me now, CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, we have some breaking news right now. The medical journal "Lancet" is retracting the study that it published that found a high risk to coronavirus patients from hydroxychloroquine, that anti- malaria drug taken promoted by President Trump. This report had said that it causes health issues.

Why the retraction? How big a deal is this?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a significant deal. I mean, these are the peer-reviewed journals that these -- the sort of data set is reviewed by other people that are often experts in the field. And that happens before it's published.

So, the fact that they're retracting, that doesn't happen that often. What has happened is sort of an interesting problem, Jake, is that, first of all, there's been a lot of science and journal articles that have been published around this topic. And some of them have come out very quickly.

A lot of them have relied on particular data sets that were provided by this outside organization. They were providing data. Authors, I'm looking at the data, and they are writing these papers.

The data then -- the original data set came under question. People said, we want to look at the data, that data ourselves, reanalyze it ourselves, the providers did not provide all the original data. So, "Lancet" now, and also, "New England Journal of Medicine" which wrote another article not directly related to this top, but one that used that same data has also retracted. "New England Journal of Medicine" and "Lancet", two major journals that are basically calling into question the underlying data that fuelled those papers. So, you know, there's other studies that have shown these same things. But for their part, "Lancet" and "New England Journal" saying, we're not going to stand by those original papers.

TAPPER: There are studies going forward about the use of hydroxychloroquine when it comes to treating patients with coronavirus.

Let me ask you a broader question. I hear from a lot of people who are frustrated. They have been obeying the guidelines for months, at great cost, economic cost, psychological cost, weddings called off, schools canceled.

And they do not understand why health officials seem so silent with all these massive crowds protesting. Obviously, none of this is to criticize the purpose of the demonstrations. But just as a health issue, is there not a significant risk to all these individuals in close quarters, not social distancing, many of them not wearing masks, yelling, screaming, shouting, which could spread the virus, and much more, is that not a health concern?

GUPTA: I think it is a health concern. There's no question. I mean, it flies in the face of a lot of the recommendations people have been making.

And so, you know, I think if you talk to most people who have been following what -- how COVID spreads, how this infection transmits within communities, this is a concern. I mean, there's likely to be clusters, maybe even outbreaks as a result of this.

I think, Jake, it goes back to some of the conversations we have had all along, which is everything is a risk/reward proposition. People have been making these risk-reward propositions for a long time.

I spoke to the former head of the American public health association about this very issue yesterday. You get two -- essentially she said we have two issues here. Racism is a public health issue, police brutality. On the other side, you got COVID. But these things at the same time.

How do you balance that? Part is, you know, what public health officials are saying is, yes, it's a risk. Let's do our best to mitigate that risk, being outside helps, wearing a mask helps. When you go home after these protests, you may want to behave like you

have the virus. Isolate yourself, especially if you live with people who are vulnerable. There may be situations where, you know, 10, 15 people in a particular area develop it, it may be hard to trace them back to the protests. But if they go home and spread it to family members or people in the community, you may start to get these clusters.

So, it's a concern, absolutely. It's not to minimize that concern but so is the reason they are protesting, which is why so many public health organizations have said, these are both public health issues. You don't typically see major medical organizations coming out and saying stuff like that, but that's what's happening here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. And be sure to listen to Sanjay's daily podcast, coronavirus fact versus fiction, wherever you access your podcasts.

[16:45:01]

Coming up: a number of new police-involved incidents under investigation, including another video of another officer kneeling on a man's neck.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our national lead: With a brighter spotlight on racial injustice and police violence this day, we are learning about more incidents around the country.

In Vallejo, California, Sean Monterrosa was shot dead by a police officer while kneeling after being suspected of looting. Police say an officer mistook his hammer for a gun.

[16:50:00]

And in Tacoma, Washington, a medical examiner has just ruled that police committed a homicide when, in March, police restrained Manuel Ellis after detaining him. Audio reveals that Ellis said the now all- too-familiar words "I can't breathe" before taking his last breath.

CNN's Ryan Young now looks at the problems that remain in police forces across the country and some of the lives lost at the hands of police officers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police tactics across the country are now under a microscope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got your knee on my man's neck, man, on his neck.

YOUNG: This video from Sarasota, Florida, shows the moment officers attempted to arrest a man during a domestic disturbance call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you on his neck.

YOUNG: One of the officers is seen kneeling on the back of the man's neck just days before George Floyd's death.

One of the officers said in the incident report that the defendant tried to get away and that police use minor force. Kneeling on someone's neck, Sarasota police say, is not something they train their officers to do. The department has now launched an internal investigation.

It's one of the several recent incidents protesters say highlight a pattern of troubling police techniques. Another example? Police in Vallejo, California shot and killed 22-year-old Sean Monterrosa while responding to a suspected looting call.

Officers say he ran toward them while reaching for what appeared to be a gun, but later confirmed it was a hammer.

SHAWNY WILLIAMS, VALLEJO, CALIFORNIA, POLICE CHIEF: The district attorney is going to look at this. And our internal affairs unit is going to look at it.

YOUNG: As calls for justice spread on the streets, a similar investigation is now under way in Tacoma, Washington.

In March, Manuel Ellis was heard saying, "I can't breathe." He died in police custody, according to a sheriff department spokesman, the case, in the wake of Floyd's death, now getting added attention.

GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA): It's a top priority for her and it is a top priority for me. And we will be pushing to make sure there is a full and complete investigation of that incident.

YOUNG: And in Chicago, another investigation launched looking into the actions of these officers during an aggressive arrest last weekend. The family said they had done nothing wrong. Cook County says it's conducting a thorough independent investigation of the matter, including the conduct of the police officers involved.

TNIKA TATE, WOMAN PULLED FROM CAR BY POLICE: Twelve or 14 cops that just start bamming on my -- they just swarmed in and just start bamming at my windows, bamming at my car. They had their weapons drawn.

YOUNG: Cedric Alexander, a former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, believes the tactics, kneeling on individuals' necks, are troubling and not part of police training.

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: There's no question about that. And training is so -- is so important in our police organizations today. This technique is not being taught. It's just not acceptable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: Jake, as you can imagine, activists and lawyers are coming forward with more stories. So, in the next few days, I'm sure we will hear about more of these incidents.

TAPPER: All right, Ryan Young, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

We're getting a lot of new information out of a Georgia hearing today in the amount the Ahmaud Arbery case. An agent with the Georgia Bureau of Investigations testified that, according to one of the suspects, a second suspect, Travis McMichael, called Arbery the N-word after he shot him.

William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., who recorded the murder, made the claim about McMichael. Both men and McMichael's father, Greg, all of them white, have been charged with the murder of the unarmed African- American man, but only after video of the brutal shooting leaked to the news media.

The investigator also testified today that Arbery was hit by the McMichaels' truck before he died. And body camera footage showed a Confederate Flag sticker on the toolbox of that truck. The investigator also said Travis McMichael admitted he shot Arbery three times.

We also learned today Bryan's cell phone has more video that investigators say shows an effort to chase and take down Arbery. Arbery's family says he was simply jogging in the area when he was brutally killed.

Protests sparked by George Floyd's killing are again under way for the 10th day. We're going to go live on the ground next.

Stay with us.

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[16:58:52]

TAPPER: Protests are under way in New York City right now.

This is the 10th day of protests, after George Floyd, an unarmed black man, was killed by white Minnesota police officer.

CNN's Athena Jones is with a massive crowd marching across the Brooklyn Bridge.

Athena, tell us more.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jake.

Well, this is, as you mentioned, a couple thousand people crossing the inbound lane into Manhattan of the Brooklyn Bridge. It has been shut down. We have been escorted by police. This has been a peaceful protest. In fact, at times, they have been chanting, "Peaceful protest," as

they left the prayer and memorial service at Cadman Plaza in Brooklyn, where Terrence Floyd, the brother of George Floyd, spoke. It was emotional. At times, he paused for several moments before he was able to speak, seemingly overcome with emotion.

And, instead -- and the crowd chanted, "You are not alone." Part of his message, of course, he's proud of the protests, not proud of the destruction. And just like we have heard from many of the speakers in many of these protests, he urged the folks here to continue to make their voices heard, continue to push, but to not destroy anything.

And we also heard from city leaders, elected officials from Congress, saying, we have got to turn this energy into action, political action. Bring this energy to Congress and make sure that it's a positive -- a positive outcome here -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Athena Jones with a peaceful protest walking across the Brooklyn Bridge.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Thanks so much for watching.

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