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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Rep. Gwen Moore (D-WI); Democratic National Convention Set to Begin as Presidential Polls Tighten; Trump Touting New Coronavirus Miracle Cure?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 17, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Short of a vaccine, experts say that we know how to contain this virus from spiraling out of control. It's widespread testing, contact tracing, wearing masks, and distancing measures.

Yet, for 21 straight days, an average of 1,000 Americans have died from the virus every day, and President Trump has still not announced or implemented any new national strategy to combat the virus. Instead, we are now learning that President Trump has reportedly been exploring a new unproven treatment, alleged treatment, a plant extract pushed by a prominent supporter of his, the creator of MyPillow.

CNN White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond joins us now live.

And, Jeremy, it's so odd. President Trump can be so dismissive of infectious disease experts, such as Dr. Fauci or Dr. Birx, and yet he's so keen on listening to people who clearly have no expertise on this. What do we know about this dietary supplement and why the president is so interested in it?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right off the bat, Jake, we should say that no studies on oleandrin have -- and COVID-19 have been published in any peer-reviewed medical journals. There's no public information to show that oleandrin has been used in coronavirus patients or that it is effective.

But, just like with hydroxychloroquine, the president seems to want to listen to many non-expert experts on these types of issues. In this case, it is Mike Lindell, the CEO of MyPillow, who is also the chair of the president's campaign in Minnesota.

And Lindell told CNN this morning, he told her colleague Betsy Klein that the president was -- quote -- "enthusiastic and excited" about the possibilities of this plant extract.

Listen to how the president reacted today when he was asked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Have you pressed the FDA to approve it? DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I haven't. I

haven't.

QUESTION: Is it something you would support?

TRUMP: Is it something that people are talking about very strongly? We'll look at it. We'll look it. We're looking at a lot of different things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, despite the president purported enthusiasm behind the scenes, you can see there that he is really not going too far, at least in public as of now, certainly not giving the same level of enthusiasm in his public remarks as he had previously with hydroxychloroquine, that other drug that is unproven as a treatment for coronavirus.

Now, why Mike Lindell, and why is Mike Lindell talking to the president about this? Well, one thing that we should know, Jake, is that Lindell recently joined the board of a company, Phoenix Biotechnology, which makes oleandrin.

And so Mike Lindell also has a financial stake in this. And he is also the person pitching this to the president, trying to get him to approve it, trying to get the FDA to approve this drug. It really is something -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond in Washington, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Dr. William Schaffner. He's a professor at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Dr. Schaffner, this supplement comes from the plant oleander, which is actually toxic, this plant. It can be deadly if you eat it. The drug is not tested or approved for any medical use right now that I can discern.

What do we know about the safety of the supplement itself and whether or not it has any therapeutic use when it comes to coronavirus?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, DEPARTMENT OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE CHAIRMAN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Oh, Jake, dream on. Put it to rest.

I mean, this is not magical thinking we're dealing with here. This is a serious viral infection. And before we start talking about therapeutic agents, we need good, solid studies to show that they work and that they're safe.

So until we have those, can we not -- you and I -- I know you have to talk about it. But I wish I didn't have to talk about it, because we need good, solid data, evidence for decision-making. That's what we need.

TAPPER: No, I hear you, but I guess the point is, the president is out there talking about this. And I want to make sure that our viewers in the public have all the facts, as opposed to whatever the president's being told by the MyPillow guy.

And I want to make sure that experts such as you are able to say, if you think that this is the message that's appropriate, don't take it, this is quackery, stay away.

SCHAFFNER: Yes. Thank you for those words. Don't take it. Stay away. This is quackery.

Do not take medications of any kind to either prevent this infection or to treat it that hasn't been vetted very, very carefully by the scientific community. We don't want to make you sick. And we don't want to mislead you by taking something that really is no good. And then you will expose yourself possibly to infection, and then you will become ill.

Let's do this seriously. Let's listen to our public health and clinical authorities about how best to approach this infection.

TAPPER: A hundred percent. I agree with you.

I'm sorry, but, every now and then, it's like I am broadcasting from inside the movie "Idiocracy" and I have to have experts like you point out, don't do that, don't ingest disinfectants and the rest.

[15:05:07]

Let's also talk about something serious now, a possible new coronavirus test on the market. The FDA has given emergency use authorization to a quick and inexpensive saliva test that can get results in fewer than three hours.

It's expected to cost around $10 per person. The White House testing czar, Admiral Brett Giroir, called this a game-changer.

What do you make of it?

SCHAFFNER: Well, it looks as though this test is reasonably good, reasonably rigorous. I haven't seen the final data to see what its specificity is and its sensitivity. How many false negatives are there?

But, nonetheless, this is the sort of rapid and relatively inexpensive test, and one that would be easy to administer, saliva -- a lot easier than putting those swabs up your nose -- that could be disseminated widely.

And, clearly, we need more testing. Testing has gone down recently, in large measure, I think, because people just despaired of getting the results in time. So, anything we can do to enhance testing and getting the results back quickly will make the data operational.

They're useful then, rather than waiting week, where the data are not very useful.

TAPPER: Right. You take the test. You find out within an hour or so or whatever whether or not you have the virus. If you do, you go and isolate yourself.

The FDA has also authorized four other coronavirus tests that use saliva. Theoretically, explain how this is going to be helpful if our government uses these new tests to bring the United States to an acceptable level of testing.

SCHAFFNER: Well, of course, for anyone who is ill or has been exposed, this is the sort of test that could be used quickly, and, if positive, then you can go out, do the contact tracing, and test those individuals that would help us manage them much more quickly.

It also might be used in some school situations, where you have suddenly a positive case or two. And you could test whole classrooms very, very quickly, for example. So there are any number of ways in the public health circumstance where we could employ a rapid test that was relatively inexpensive.

TAPPER: Now, the CDC says the number of coronavirus cases in children in the U.S. has been steadily increasing since March. Evidence suggests that as much as -- as much as 45 percent of those children who have the virus are asymptomatic, no symptoms at all.

Does that change the thinking at all about how potentially kids can transmit the virus, if almost half of them have no symptoms?

SCHAFFNER: Oh, yes, Jake.

We're learning more all the time. We didn't know why the children, who are much less seriously affected than older persons, were so. Perhaps they didn't get infected. Perhaps they're not transmitters. That theory is being put to the side now, as more information comes in.

Looks as though children can be infected, and if they're infected, they can be disseminators. They can be contagious to others and bring it home to their relatives, neighbors and make them more seriously ill.

So, it's certainly changing the way we're thinking about children and this virus.

TAPPER: Right, and, of course, a contradiction completely, when President Trump said that kids are basically immune. They don't get sick necessarily at the same rates that older people do, but certainly they can get infected, which means they are not immune.

Dr. William Schaffner, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

We are just hours away from the start of the Democratic National Convention. And we are also learning a former Trump administration official is switching sides and planning to endorse Joe Biden. We have an exclusive video with what that official is saying. That's next.

Plus, a clear sign this 2020 race just entered a new phase, surprising details on our new CNN poll and what it shows us about President Trump and Joe Biden, particularly in the all-important battleground states.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:25]

TAPPER: And we're back with some breaking news.

CNN has learned that a former top Trump administration official is breaking ranks and endorsing Joe Biden in a new political ad.

Miles Taylor, who previously served as chief of staff under the former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, is describing his time in the Trump administration as terrifying.

He lays out his case against Trump in a new "Washington Post" op-ed and endorses Biden in a video that CNN has exclusively obtained from a group called Republican Voters Against Trump that features Miles Taylor.

Here's part of his message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY CHIEF OF STAFF: What we saw week in and week out, and, for me, after two- and-a-half years in that administration, was terrifying.

We would go into try to talk to him about a pressing national security issue, cyberattack, terrorism threat. He wasn't interested in those things. To him, they weren't priorities. The president wanted to exploit the Department of Homeland Security for his own political purposes.

The president was ill-equipped and wouldn't become equipped to do his job effectively and what's worse, was actively doing damage to our security.

Given what I have experienced in the administration, I have to support Joe Biden for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A source tells CNN that Taylor has not had any conversations with the Biden campaign, but he decided to approach the Republican Voters Against Trump group.

Taylor is one of the highest-ranking former Trump officials to support Biden as of now.

The endorsement comes on what is also night one of the Democratic National Convention. Former first lady Michelle Obama is the headliner this evening, alongside the runner-up for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bernie Sanders, plus New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and South Carolina Congressman and House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn.

[15:15:01]

CNN's Jessica Dean joins us now from presumptive nominee Joe Biden's hometown of Wilmington, Delaware.

And, Jessica, tonight's theme, the Democrats say, is all about unity. What are we expecting to see?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. They're calling it "We the People."

And they want to project unity both within the Democratic Party itself, but also unity within the country. And so, to that end, they're going to have a very wide-ranging spectrum of speakers.

We're expecting to hear these speakers in shorter amounts of time than is typical, because this programming has been shrunk down to just two hours, as opposed to the typical four hours we see in prime-time programming.

We also know that they're going to be being beamed in from all across the country, with producers and directors able to look at hundreds of different feeds from both people's living rooms, and then also these big speakers who will be speaking in front of historic monuments.

But back to that unity message, Jake, we're hearing, as you mentioned, from Bernie Sanders, obviously represents the left, the very most liberal part of the Democratic Party. We're also going to be hearing from Republicans tonight who are supporting Joe Biden. So it really runs the gamut.

TAPPER: That's right. Former Ohio Governor John Kasich will speak this evening.

Jessica Dean from Wilmington, Delaware, with the Biden campaign, thank you.

Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore of Wisconsin, where part of this week's convention will take place.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

You're one of the speakers this evening in Milwaukee, where the convention was supposed to be, before the pandemic changed everything.

Hillary Clinton was much derided for taking the state of Wisconsin for granted. I know Biden is not taking the state for granted. But you must regret that he's not there to show that he is competing for the state in the way that you had hoped he would be.

REP. GWEN MOORE (D-WI): Well, thanks for having me, Jake.

And, of course, we're disappointed that Vice President Biden, and presumably our next president of the United States, is not here.

But I think, as Democrats, we're going have a spectacular convention, because we faced the reality as far back as April that we may, in fact, have to do this virtually. So we started the really hard slog of putting this all together. And, as you just mentioned in the setup to our conversation, we're

going to have our parties' luminaries there tonight, Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama, and Andrew Cuomo (AUDIO GAP).

And, of course, I'm going to be speaking tonight as well. I hope I won't (AUDIO GAP) I hope that I'm not going to upstage all these folks who are coming on.

But, in all seriousness, I think Milwaukee, even though we're meeting and gathering virtually, I do think that we're going to be able to demonstrate for the first time in history that people will get a substantive view of what our party has to offer the American people.

Not only are we going to have a prime-time -- but we're going to have virtual trainings. We're going to have caucuses. People will be able to Zoom from room to room and to experience everything, except our beer and brats.

TAPPER: Right.

But, Congresswoman, obviously, Wisconsin is an important state. Hillary Clinton did not compete in it, and she lost it, and along with Michigan and Pennsylvania lost the presidency. President Trump is going to be in Wisconsin today. His son Eric is going to be in your home district tomorrow and Wednesday.

Are you worried about Wisconsin, where the Trumps are going to be this week, and I don't think the Bidens are going to be?

MOORE: Well, they're trolling us, obviously.

But it is also a sign of their desperation. They're getting the same polling information that you're getting, Jake, and all of us, is that we are just sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Even though we are doing socially distancing here, we're still meeting up in the grocery stores and places. And people on the street have had enough.

I live in a very urban area, but, over the past 40 years, we have seen the suicide rate among farmers grow exponentially. We have had farms closing every single day. Harley-Davidson, a manufacturer in my district, just laid off about 700 people.

These awful trade agreements, trade policies that the president has executed has almost single-handedly devastated our economy here in Wisconsin. And so he can come here if he wants to, but we are not going for the okeydoke.

TAPPER: OK, Congresswoman Gwen Moore, Democrat of Wisconsin, thank you so much. Break a leg this evening. And best of luck to you.

Tonight, you can hear from former first lady Michelle Obama, Senator Bernie Sanders, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, and many more at the Democratic National Convention, including the congresswoman we just spoke with. [15:20:04]

CNN's special live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern this evening.

One Democratic mayor warned today, brace for an attack on voting by mail -- how a potential bill in congress could try to shore up holes in the system.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:15]

TAPPER: Welcome back.

In our 2020 lead today: As the Democratic Convention begins this evening, enthusiasm about the race is hitting a new high, according to a new CNN poll. And according to that same poll, the race may be tightening.

The poll finds 50 percent of registered voters backing the Biden/Harris ticket, with 46 percent saying they support Trump/Pence. That is a 4 percent lead by the Biden campaign, just outside the margin of error. In June, that same poll showed a 14-percentage point lead by Biden.

CNN's political director, David Chalian, joins us now to discuss it.

David, this poll is closer than other national polls by other media organizations. How do you explain that?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I mean, we -- the movement we have seen in this poll in -- towards Trump has sort of been with male voters, independent voters, Republicans, conservatives sort of putting on their jersey, their typical team jersey, if you will, as we get closer to the game here, Jake.

But I wouldn't overinterpret just one poll. I think the aggregate of all the polls is telling the same story. Joe Biden, look at each candidate's support level, is hovering right around the 50 percent mark, where we have him in our poll, sort of where he is in all of these polls out there right now. That's a really good sign, as you know, for a challenger, a non-incumbent, and a warning sign that Donald Trump across all these polls is ranging between the low to mid 40s.

Our poll has him in an upper end at 46. Other polls have him down at 41, 42 percent. But it's nowhere in that range that an incumbent president would want to be at this stage of the game.

TAPPER: And, of course, this is not a national poll race. It's done state by state through electoral votes.

Across 15 battleground states, which we should point out 10 of which Trump won in 2016, the race is even tighter. In those 15 battlegrounds, 49 percent of voters are for Biden, 48 percent are for Trump.

Now, we should point out, as you did with me the other day when I was questioning this, CNN categorizes as battlegrounds any state where serious money's being spent, which includes Georgia and Texas. So our battleground, CNN battlegrounds, might skew more Republican than, say, swing states, states that we think could go in either direction.

CHALIAN: Right. Exactly. These are not to suggest these are tossups, right?

On our electoral map, you will see that Texas still leans Republican. But this wider universe of battleground states, sort of where all the campaign activity is taking place, where each side is sort of focusing its effort, and so to try and not just look at that national picture, as you noted, but to see, in those most competitive places, in those states that have seen the action, what does the race look like?

Obviously, we will do state-by-state polling as well, Jake, that will help determine that. But in the aggregate of that 15-state battleground, you're right to note it's even a closer race, which I think you would expect to see.

TAPPER: And, as you noted earlier, one of the reasons why, in our poll, Trump is rising a bit is that some of the groups that have moved towards him whether, they're coming from Biden or from undecided, include men, independent voters, and Republicans. What's going on here?

CHALIAN: Yes, well, male voters should be a Trump component of the electorate. He won them last time around.

And in that June poll, they were not with him. That was sort of eye- popping. But they've sort of a return to their normal state of being. Independents, the Republican-leaning independents, right, moving back to the Republican candidate, same with conservatives.

So, like I said, I think, as we're getting closer to the election season, what you see in the electorate is that some folks are sort of going to their normal position of where they sit in the electorate in these final few months.

TAPPER: And that might be what -- for instance, why President Trump is focusing so much on this law in order message, even if it alienates suburban women, because it does help bring some of these base voters home.

The president says there's -- quote -- "much more spirit" than even 2016 for his campaign. Is that shown in the polls?

CHALIAN: Well, I will tell you what does show in the polls, Jake, which is that those people who are supporting President Trump -- and this is in our poll as well, but across the board in polls -- they're with Trump to be for Trump.

It's not an anti-Biden vote. It's a for-Donald Trump vote. So I think there's some validity to him saying that, unlike the Biden vote, which a huge swathe of his voters are parked with him because they're opposing Donald Trump. That's a main motivation there.

But, as you noted at the very top, what we're seeing overall in the electorate is unprecedented levels of interest and enthusiasm. For the first time in nearly 20 years going back in CNN polling, Jake, a majority, 53 percent, say they are extremely enthusiastic, the highest level of interest and enthusiasm, about this election.

That could potentially mean sort of record turnout, just as we're talking about how the vote is going to actually be conducted this fall.