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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro; Bill Clinton Set to Speak at Democratic National Convention; Schools Facing COVID Outbreaks; Postmaster General Vows to Suspend Changes to Postal Service. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This afternoon, the postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, has announced that he is suspending planned changes to the U.S. Postal Service to -- quote -- "avoid even the appearance of any impact on election mail" -- unquote -- after accusations that the Trump administration was purposefully trying to undermine mail-in voting ahead of November's election, not only through the president's rhetoric, in which he speaks repeatedly against vote-by-mail, but through tangible steps that the Postal Service had taken that postal carriers said have led to delays throughout the country.

[15:00:26]

DeJoy saying this afternoon that mail processing equipment and collection boxes will remain in place, and no facilities will be closed, though it is unclear what this may mean for changes that have already been implemented -- implemented, such as sorting equipment that has already been removed.

The announcement comes as DeJoy is scheduled to face lawmakers on Capitol Hill on Friday.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us now to talk about this.

Kristen, what sort of pressure was the postmaster general facing?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, he was facing that Washington pressure. And it was enormous.

I mean, just to go through what happened that led us to this, it was really a snowball effect. It started, as you said, with these postal workers sounding alarms over cuts that DeJoy was making which he said were in desperate need because of the dire financial situation at the post office.

That included overtime hours, meaning that once post workers were done, the mail just went back to the post office. This was creating massive delays. Then CNN obtained documents that showed, on top of that, the removal of about 700 high-volume sorters, mail sorters, ahead of November, when we are obviously expected to see the biggest mail-in voting contingency that we have seen in history, given the pandemic. And then all of that with images of those iconic blue mailboxes being carted away on the back of trucks. Now, this, with President Trump's rhetoric, really fueled those allegations that the Trump administration was using the Postal Service in order to meddle in the election somehow.

Keep in mind, DeJoy is a Trump donor, a Trump ally, a big supporter of his. So, getting it from every side. And it wasn't just Democrats. I want to be very clear here. There were a lot of Republicans who were deeply concerned, because taking the election out of it, there are Republicans who represent rural areas in which people rely heavily, if not exclusively, on the Postal Service to get their most critical needs.

So this was a huge issue. And, as you said, he was invited or demanded to testify in front of Congress. He will be in front of the Senate on Friday and the House on Monday. But this is an abrupt turn of events.

And I want to pull up here just quickly for you what is going to stop before the November election. Retail hours no longer will change. Mail processing equipment will stay. As you mentioned, obviously, we don't know what happens to the ones who have already been removed.

Blue collection boxes will stay. Same goes for that. No processing facilities will be closing, and overtime will be approved as necessary.

But, Jake, I do want to point out one thing, because you interviewed the chief of staff on Sunday, Mark Meadows, who essentially said that this was Democrats raising a stink, that they were really making a big deal out of something.

But, clearly, this was happening, because now it's being suspended. And someone at the Postal Service felt there was enough pressure that they had to do this before the November election.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Now to our other top story, the coronavirus pandemic. The number of deaths from COVID-19, after going down, has gone back up, and for 22 straight days, the United States has averaged 1,000 deaths due to COVID every day, the total death toll topping 171,000 people as of right now.

The nation has seen a decline when it comes to new cases, logging 35,000 new cases yesterday. While still high, that is the lowest number of new cases in one day in almost two months.

Dr. Deborah Birx of the White House Coronavirus Task Force is now admitting that the U.S. did not take sufficiently aggressive measures during the lockdown. And yet, despite that acknowledgement of failure and the virus still spreading out of control, neither President Trump nor his administration are offering any new plans.

They are just sticking with the one that is clearly failing and costing lives. And nowhere are these failures more evident than at schools trying to reopen.

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill now suddenly stopping in-person classes after more than 100 students tested positive for the virus after just the first week.

I want to bring in CNN's Rosa Flores.

And, Rosa, it's not just UNC. We're already seeing outbreaks at campuses across the country.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. There are outbreaks at a sorority house at OSU, a group of athletes infected at the University of Oklahoma, and 155 students at least in quarantine at Colorado College.

But back to UNC Chapel Hill, officials there halted in-person instruction abruptly after 130 students tested positive for COVID-19. The positivity rate there went from 2.8 to 13.6 percent in just a week.

[15:05:05]

Now, students were allowed to transition into remote learning. Athletes are still being allowed to play sports. And the student body president is left wondering how the university is going to explain that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure how they're going to be able to explain it. I know you saw Pac-12 and the Big Ten say, we're going to postpone the season until next semester, but, at the same time, how is ACC going to be able to make a decision to bring people into these communities that are seeing a rise in cases already?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, the university chancellor telling CNN affiliate WRAL that university officials established a solid plan.

But, Jake, he says that it was activities off-campus that created the surge.

TAPPER: Rosa, 26 school districts in Florida have reopened, but some schools there are already having to quarantine?

FLORES: We know of at least three school districts in this state that are already impacted by COVID-19.

In Baker County, we know of at least three cases. In Bradford County, we know that five students and two teachers at least are under quarantine. And in Martin County, there are 292 students that are quarantine and at least 15 teachers also impacted.

Right here where I am in Miami-Dade County, we learned through an information request that 578 employees from the Miami-Dade public school system are also infected with COVID-19. But, Jake, the good news there is that in Miami-Dade County schools are not reopening for in-person instruction. Virtual learning starts here on August 31 -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Rosa Flores in Florida, thank you so much.

Let's discuss with Dr. Seema Yasmin, a former CDC detective.

Dr. Yasmin, we have seen these outbreaks in schools at all levels. Is their clear guidance as to when a school needs to take steps to shut down and go to entirely virtual learning?

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think, if you ask the universities and schools across the U.S., Jake, they will say, no, and that it's felt quite confusing.

Of course, the CDC has issued some guidance. But what happens is, it really falls on individual universities, schools, school districts to make a decision based on some of that overarching guidance, but also based on what's happening locally, what are transmission rates like locally, what our testing rates like.

And, because of this confusion, because we're still seeing hot spots, still seeing increasing case counts in some places, that's how we end up with situations where the University of Tennessee-Knoxville, for example, has about 300 people in isolation right now, and about 80 already confirmed to have COVID-19.

When you look across the states, we see 6,600 COVID-19 cases linked to U.S. colleges, and that was just the count by the end of July. Obviously, that's increasing now as we move into more universities opening for the fourth semester, four-quarter, more schools reopening too.

What's clear is that schools do need more guidance. But also, just on a broader level, we're not doing enough to bring transmission rates down locally, where it is safe for many schools and universities to reopen safely.

TAPPER: New cases are down to the lowest levels since the end of June, with anywhere from 40,000 to 50,000, new infections reported each day, still a very high number, but lower, at least.

The U.S. still averages about 1,000 deaths due to COVID a day. That's been going on for more than three weeks. What does this all suggest?

YASMIN: This is heartbreaking. We just have to say that behind these numbers there are people. It's tragic that the government is still failing Americans this late into the year, as so many other countries have gotten this under control.

What it indicates is that this pandemic in the U.S. is not under control, that the administration was being very overly optimistic early in the year, now saying they shouldn't have been, but then still not responding with any clear guidance or any clear plan about what that means. What we're seeing, Jake, is these rotating hot spots. It's very

cyclical across the country. You see, in spring, it's the Northeast. Then you see the Southern states. Now we're actually worried about cities like Baltimore, Boston, Chicago becoming new hot spots, and also about Midwestern states.

What we have to add to this, because it sounds very hopeless and very full of despair, is that this could all change tomorrow if the government decided, we're going to really ramp up testing, we're going to make sure we implement contact tracing, we're going to have mask mandates, we're going to have really clear guidance.

If all of that was to happen tomorrow, Jake, we'd be looking at a very different future in six to eight weeks' time. But, unfortunately, that is not happening.

TAPPER: Not only is it not happening. The head of testing and the president claimed that they're doing everything they can when it comes to testing, even though that's obviously just not true.

Let me ask you, Dr. Yasmin. New studies reveal that immunity protection for those who have contracted the virus may actually be longer than originally thought. Based on what you have seen, is this a meaningful improvement? Does it change the way that doctors view the severity of the virus?

[15:10:10]

YASMIN: It gives us a bit more hope, Jake, because it's not just one study. It's actually a whole spate of studies that we're now seeing regarding immunity, telling us that, when it comes to antibodies, they may persist for longer than three months.

At three months, they do seem to decline, but they don't disappear. Also, studies are showing us that it's not just antibodies protecting us. There's a whole 'nother arm of the immune system, our T-cells, including killer T-cells and helper T-cells, which are also mounting a response to COVID-19.

It is early days. Oftentimes, we like to talk about how many years of immunity you might have for an infection. Of course, we just don't have time on our side in regards to COVID-19. These studies are promising.

They can't tell us about severity, which you're asking, because, in fact, when it comes to some people who suffer really severe symptoms from COVID-19, it might be that their immune system is going into overdrive, causing more harm than it is doing good.

But I will say that these studies are giving us bit more hope in the context of so much despair about possibly longer-lasting immunity to this infection than we previously thought.

TAPPER: Some researchers told "The New York Times" they believe that the threshold for herd immunity, which essentially means the point at which the virus cannot spread anymore because it doesn't have enough potential hosts, could be about 50 percent of the population.

You're a former CDC disease detective. Is herd immunity a serious proposition and an actionable goal?

YASMIN: It's really important to say that you can achieve herd immunity in different ways, Jake.

So, natural infection is one way. That's not feasible with COVID-19 because of how severely sick some people get, because, if you just let the virus run through, which essentially it feels like we are doing in the U.S., you end up with health care systems overwhelmed.

The other way, though, the great way to get herd immunity, is through a safe and effective vaccine. That's the whole point of a vaccine, is giving people a shot or giving them something to inhale in their nostrils that prevents them from getting sick, but gives them that hopefully long-lasting immunity.

So, vaccines hopefully will give us that herd immunity. That's the safer option. Of course, we will have to wait and see if a safe and effective vaccine comes along and when that might be.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Seema Yasmin, thank you so much, as always.

Former first lady Michelle Obama said that President Trump is in over his head -- how the president is now responding. That's ahead.

Plus, tonight, former President Bill Clinton, infamously known for his long convention speeches, may not be speaking very long this evening, but his message is expected to make major headlines -- that story next.

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[15:16:56]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today, it is day two of the Democratic National Convention.

Tonight's headliners include the wife of the presumptive presidential nominee, Jill Biden, and former President Bill Clinton, who is expected to deliver his sharpest rebuke ever of President Trump.

At an event celebrating women's suffrage earlier today, President Trump attacked last night's headliner, former first lady Michelle Obama, who had made very pointed criticism of the president last night.

CNN's Jessica Dean joins me from Wilmington, Delaware, to preview what's ahead.

Jessica, Bill Clinton expected to go after President Trump, according to a source. What are we expecting him to say?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So sources are telling CNN that they expect Bill Clinton to call Donald Trump out by name, and really list his failures, specifically focusing on his reaction and response to the coronavirus pandemic, and to really go through what President Trump has done and where he has failed.

And then, as my colleague Dan Merica has reported, organizers are hoping that, as one of just a few living presidents, that Bill Clinton will be able to help people understand and make the case that he knows what it takes to be president, he knows how hard it is, and that Joe Biden has the qualities to be president of the United States, that he's uniquely positioned to be able to lead at this moment of multiple crises across the country, especially as the nation is gripped by the coronavirus pandemic, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Jessica, we saw President Trump attack Michelle Obama earlier today after she gave that scathing speech against him last night.

How does the Biden camp in general think that last night went?

DEAN: Well, I think, if they could have Michelle Obama given an 18- minute speech on behalf of Joe Biden every day, they would be very happy with that.

It was interesting to see President Trump today, a lot of eyes on him to see how he might respond to that scathing critique that Michelle Obama gave last night. And it was interesting that he was giving remarks on marking the 100th anniversary of women's right to vote. He went after a former first lady, saying that she was extremely divisive, that she was in over her head.

Remember, that had been one of her critiques of President Trump. And then really went after her for pre-taping her remarks, Jake.

But the Biden campaign very pleased with how the camp -- with the convention is going so far, looking tonight to talk about leadership. Again, you're going to hear from former President Bill Clinton. There's also going to be a heavy focus on national security, Jake.

And expect to hear a lot that the nation is less safe with Donald Trump in the Oval Office and would be more safe with a President Biden in office.

TAPPER: All right, Jessica Dean in Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much.

Coming up next, the postmaster general now saying that he's going to stop the changes to the Postal Service, but will that solve the fears over mail-in voting and the election?

I'm going to talk to one of the state attorneys general who is pursuing legal action against the postmaster general.

That's next.

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[15:24:55]

TAPPER: Breaking news on the November election and the U.S. Postal Service.

The postmaster general this afternoon said he is going to pause the proposed changes to Postal Service operations, over fears they would impact the election. He says he wants to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

[15:25:08]

President Trump again railed against mail-in voting this morning, suggesting that the election would be a -- quote -- "disaster."

Let's bring in Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, will this stop Trump's attacks or will it have no effect?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It doesn't seem likely, Jake, based on what the president said to us this morning, after -- as he was granting that pardon to Susan B. Anthony, who, of course, was convicted of voting illegally.

The president continued his attacks on mail-in voting. And even without offering any real detail or basis for what he was saying, he said that there's a chance they'd have to redo the November election if it is overwhelmingly done by mail, because he is that against it, and he has continued to ramp up his attacks so much on it, even though there is no widespread evidence of fraud, like the president has suggested.

Now, when it comes to the U.S. postmaster, you have got to keep in mind Louis DeJoy is the president's guy. He put him there in May, despite the fact that lawmakers were concerned that DeJoy has no experience in the post office, unlike the former postmaster generals who came before him.

And in recent days, the president has defended what he's doing, saying that he wants to -- quote -- "make the post office great again."

So it's not likely the president had issues with what he was doing, because he was talking about it and he was defending it. And now that he has bowed to the pressure, not just from lawmakers, but from state attorneys general and others, civil rights officials, the postmaster general still has to undergo two days of questioning on Capitol Hill.

And the president has voiced complaints that one of those hearings is going to happen the week of the Republican National Convention next Monday.

TAPPER: And we should point out, of course, that about a quarter of the country voted by mail in 2016. And President Trump votes by mail in Florida.

COLLINS: Yes.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, the president also continued to focus on suburban voters with these attacks that many interpret to be racially charged about low-income housing.

COLLINS: Yes, he was pressed on this morning, because, of course, it's seen as this appeal just to these suburban women, since his support with them has totally eroded since he's been in office in substantial ways.

And it's something that the campaign is greatly concerned about. But, today, he tried to say that he sees this suburban voter as many people, even though specifically he has said suburban housewives on Twitter when he's targeting these certain voters, trying to appeal to them, touting that rule change that he did -- that he undid from the Obama administration that was meant to diversify community housing, but the president said was driving up crime in areas, even though there was no evidence of that either.

And so he is making these a direct appeals to women voters because he realizes he is facing a massive gender gap with Joe Biden. And it's something they have become increasingly concerned about with the election less than 80 days away.

And so whether or not that works, of course, is still an open question. But he's making very clear explicitly who it is he's appealing to when he is saying these things about low-income housing in the suburbs and what he has done, in his opinion, to change that.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Just now, at least 20 Democratic attorneys general throughout the country have launched a multipronged legal effort against the U.S. Postal Service and Postmaster General DeJoy, accusing the Trump administration of purposely trying to undermine mail-in voting.

Joining us now, Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro, who's leading one of the lawsuits against the U.S. Postal Service.

Josh, good to see you.

First. What's your reaction DeJoy's announcement that he is suspending any changes before the election?

JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, Jake, it's hard to believe much of what the president or his enablers say from day to day or tweet to tweet.

And as the chief legal officer of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania leading this lawsuit, actions speak louder than words. I want to see something binding from the postmaster general. Obviously, the statement is positive, but we deal with facts and evidence.

And the facts and evidence on the ground here in Pennsylvania is that they have made specific changes to the way mail is delivered back in July that has impacted the flow of mail. They did that without following the regulatory process that's

required. And that's illegal. And we're holding them accountable.

TAPPER: Are you alleging that these changes are being made specifically with the purpose of undermining the election? Or are you just saying that they have made these changes and they -- and that could affect the election?

SHAPIRO: Think of our argument really as two arguments.

Number one, if they make the kinds of changes we know they have already made, Jake, they have to go through a regulatory process to ensure that public input is granted, and that the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and all across United States have a voice in that process.

The second part of this is, running the elections is constitutionally given to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and other states. And, in fact, we have passed a law in Pennsylvania, by the way, Jake, with more Republican votes than Democratic votes -- this should be a nonpartisan issue -- that allows for mail-in balloting.