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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Responds To Michelle Obama Convention Speech; Schools Facing COVID Outbreaks. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired August 18, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:01]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In nearly half of states, the number of tests coming back positive is still too high.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: When you look at New York City right now, it's less than 1 percent. That's what you want the whole country to be. There are parts of the country where it's 15, 18, 20 percent. That's really high.

WATT: New infection rates are now falling in the South, but rising in the Heartland. Some returning Missouri State University students are packing a quarantine go bag just in case.

KIMBERLI DUECKER, COLLEGE STUDENT: I also bought hand sanitizer and bleach and Clorox wipes where I could find them.

WATT: Across the contrary, that path back to in-person classes is pitted with potholes. It's a, well, that, according to the UNC at Chapel Hill student newspaper.

REEVES MOSELEY, STUDENT BODY PRESIDENT, UNC CHAPEL HILL: We saw four clusters across the entire campus in just three days.

WATT: The university is now running out of quarantine beds. In-person undergraduate classes are done after just a week. Tomorrow, they will move to room remote learning only.

FAUCI: You go in, people get infected, boom, they close them down. So it's better to ease in, perhaps with virtual, until you see what's going on when you're in a really hot zone.

WATT: In Miami-Dade, Florida, nearly 600 public school employees have tested positive for COVID-19. The Los Angeles School District now plans to test every single student and staffer, around 800,000 people. Herculean? Sisyphean?

AUSTIN BEUTNER, SUPERINTENDENT, LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: If we want to keep schools from becoming a petri dish, and we want to keep all the school community safe, we need to test and trace at schools.

WATT: A quicker, easier saliva test could be available within weeks.

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: It's basically spit in a tube. It does not need a swab. It does not need the special transport media.

WATT: But we're told testing is not a panacea. This fight will always be largely on us.

GIROIR: It's part of a comprehensive plan. You have to do the things that the surgeon general and we all tell you, the three W's. Got to wear the mask, got to watch your distance, got to wash your hands.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, with schools and colleges going back, the only issue isn't classrooms. It's also sports fields.

And at UNC Chapel Hill, all undergrads moving online to learn, but the college sports program continues. And the governor of Ohio just said today that he will allow sports, including contact sports, this fall. He says that it brings to students discipline, order structure, and joy -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And maybe possibly also virus.

Nick Watt, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me now is CNN Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, today, we saw the case count drop below 40,000 for the first time in months. That's good news; 21 states are showing downward trends and new cases. Is this some light at the end of the tunnel, or is this because testing is going down also?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's a good question, Jake. I think it's probably a little bit of a combination of both. And I don't know.

I mean, I want to be optimistic about this. But if we look at the overall trends here, and I think we can see the case counts, and how they have sort of changed over time, keep in mind that our low at this point is sort of where the peak was back in April, right?

I mean, so are we on a roller-coaster ride here? Or is this line going to continue to go downward? And if we look at what happened with people who, sadly, died during this time, you will see that lag time that comes after this. You see the cases go up. And then, shortly thereafter, the deaths went down as the cases went down.

Are they going to go up and then do that same roller coaster? That's what we don't know.

Jake, look, we're opening schools, right? I mean, you have been talking about it all hour. There's more people that are mobile as a result of what's happening in the fall. If people aren't paying attention, and if you see these significant super-spreading events at schools, I'm fearful that the numbers are going to go back up again, so you're going to see the sort of roller coaster.

TAPPER: A recent batch of early studies are giving some hope that even those with mild symptoms could theoretically have a robust response in terms of their immunity. What's the current thinking on immunity?

GUPTA: Well, it's interesting.

I was talking to a source of mine in Korea early this morning. And one of the questions I have been asking almost since the beginning is, do we think people can become reinfected? And you remember there were some anecdotal reports of that, Jake, in South Korea. They were confirmed not to be true reinfections.

And we really haven't seen reinfections here in this country. So keep that in the back of your mind as you think about overall immunity. You got some five million people who've been infected. If they did not have immunity, I think we would have started to see some reinfections. And we're really not.

What the current thinking is that, once you're infected, you do have some immunity. How long that immunity lasts, how strong it is, we still don't know. That is one of those things where you really have to see this with the passage of time. So it will take a year to know for certain that you have a year's worth of protection.

[16:35:08]

But it looks good, Jake. It looks like there is immunity. It seems to be lasting a while. There's other evidence now that people who've even had exposure to other coronaviruses in the past, not just this coronavirus, but totally different coronavirus in the past, may also have some immunity.

So, they're still piecing this together. But there's some favorable news overall when it comes to immunity.

TAPPER: And, of course, we know that health officials have been tearing out their hair because they say testing is not where it needs to be. And testing, widespread testing all over the country, millions of testing -- tests a day needs to happen in order for health officials to be able to identify and then isolate the virus, and then it doesn't spread.

Take a listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci talking about how testing is going in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: The other thing that's a problem, still not completely fixed, but fixed in many areas of the, but not all, is the delay between the time you do the test and you get the result back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It's August, Sanjay. Why is this still such a problem?

GUPTA: Yes.

I think we have minimized this, Jake, to be perfectly honest. The original sin is, we did not take testing seriously. Yes, there was a problem with the CDC test at the beginning. That was a long time ago. Since then, we just have not taken this seriously.

And I think maybe there was a desire to not show as many cases, because that looked like it'd be a bigger problem. It obviously was a wrongheaded strategy. And I think we're still paying the price for that.

We're doing more testing than we have been in certain -- overall. But the test numbers go down from day to day. And we see now the impact of that. If you're not doing enough testing, cases continue to spread. People are going unchecked, continuing to spread the virus.

The way it should work -- and, again, this was from another source I was talking to in Korea -- you get tested. Even before you leave the testing center, you know whether or not you have a positive diagnosis. At that time, the contact tracing process begins.

They start asking right then and there, who have you been in contact with? That all happens sort of simultaneously. That's the way it should work. And that's how you get your arms around a pandemic.

So we still don't have the sort of assurance testing that people want. I want to have assurance that I can go out in public and know that I'm not carrying the virus. I want to have assurance that people around me are not carrying the virus. Sometimes, you hear that that's a fantasy. It's not.

That's what's happening in other parts of the world, just not here.

TAPPER: Just imagine how secure parents would feel about their kids going back to school if the kids got tested before they went in, and you knew there was no COVID in that school.

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: And just to clarify, Sanjay, when you said we didn't take this seriously enough, you mean -- you're being diplomatic. You mean the Trump administration didn't, because you have been telling us how important testing is since February.

GUPTA: That's right.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

We have some breaking news for you. We have just gotten a preview of the Democratic National Convention keynote speech tonight. We're going to show that to you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:27] TAPPER: Michelle Obama, the former first lady, blasted President Trump's entire presidency, selling stability in the face of chaos last night.

And the president, well, he was watching, and it's clear that her words got under his skin.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN Political Correspondent, Abby Phillip and CNN Chief Political Analyst, Gloria Borger.

Abby, I want to play some of what Michelle Obama said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald Trump is the wrong president for our country. He has had more than enough time to prove that he can do the job, but he is clearly in over his head.

He cannot meet this moment. He simply cannot be who we need him to be for us. It is what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And take a listen to what the president had to say when Kaitlan Collins asked the president about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Do you want to respond to Michelle Obama's speech last night where she said that you're in over your head and the wrong president for...

(CROSSTALK)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

No, she was over her head, and, frankly, she should have made the speech live, which he didn't do. She taped it. And it was not only taped. It was taped a long time ago, because she had the wrong deaths. She didn't even mention the vice presidential candidate in the speech.

And she gets these fawning reviews. I thought it was a very divisive speech, extremely divisive. I wouldn't even be here if it weren't for Barack Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So much to respond to there.

I think one of the oddest -- the oddest things is that he thinks he's somehow dunking on Michelle Obama by pointing out that she only talked about 150,000 Americans who had died of COVID-19, and the number is now 170,000.

But what did you make of all this, Abby? ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, that's truly

-- honestly, it's heart-wrenching, because those are 20,000 Americans who are dead.

But I also think that you can see the president's frustration with all of this. Interesting that he says Michelle Obama was in over her head, when we all recall four years ago when his wife, the current first lady, plagiarized part of Michelle Obama's speech and, at their inauguration, copied even the -- down to the inauguration cake.

So there's there's that.

But, obviously, this is what we're going to get when we get such an extraordinary speech from a former first lady. As you pointed out last night after we heard this, it is incredible to hear a former first lady saying these kinds of things about a sitting United States president, but it's reflective of Michelle Obama just being so incredibly frustrating.

I have been listening to her on her podcast talking about her feelings over the summer, about her feelings about how President Trump has responded to this coronavirus crisis. She is angry, and she is frustrated. You saw it and heard it in that speech.

[16:45:10]

I don't think she's surprised to see the president hitting back. But she knew that this was coming. And she was willing to go into that fray for a former first lady who, as she said, hates politics. That is a critical decision that she made last night to really get into the arena with President Trump on this issue.

TAPPER: And, Gloria, as we just heard, President Trump said that it was clear that she prerecorded her speech and that she -- quote -- "had the wrong deaths."

If you could just talk about this, how does President Trump point -- pointing out that actually it's 170,000 Americans who have died on his watch of COVID-19, not 150,000, as she said when she recorded it, obviously, a week or two ago, how does he not even remotely understand, A, it's inappropriate to be settling scores that way, and, B, this makes him look bad?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. It's just a number him, Jake. I think that's very clear. He was trying.

He can't get out of his own way. He was trying to make the point, oh, Michelle Obama really isn't any good at giving a speech because she couldn't even do it live. She didn't mention Kamala Harris, for example. And she got the number wrong.

And, by the way, she said, I'm in over my head. Well, she's in over her head, which is, of course, a childish response.

You have kids. I'm sure you have heard one say it to the other when they complain about the other one. And I think that -- I think that he just doesn't understand that he's

talking about 20,000 people who have died. And, of course, as we all sat and watched the Democratic Convention last night, what was the convention about in large part?

TAPPER: Empathy.

BORGER: It was about Joe Biden's empathy, exactly.

And what the president was showing again at the podium today was, I can only talk about her speech because she criticized me. So I'm going to say the same thing about her. And the number and the people and what has occurred was not even a thought.

TAPPER: Yes.

Abby, tonight, President Bill Clinton is expected to deliver his sharpest rebuke of President Trump yet. We just got a preview of what he's about to say from his prepared remarks.

Here's an excerpt -- quote -- "Donald Trump says we're leading the world. Well, we are the only major industrial economy to have its unemployment rate triple. At a time like this, the Oval Office should be a command center. Instead, it's a storm center. There's only chaos. Just one thing never changes. His determination to deny responsibility and shift the blame. The buck never stops there."

This is also fairly unprecedented to have a former president directly criticizing a sitting president.

PHILLIP: Yes, you can see the Democrats making some important choices here, I think, deciding that a lot of the conventions -- not political conventions, but the conventions of talking about these types of things that they used to adhere to need to kind of be thrown out the window with an unconventional presidency in Donald Trump's.

And Bill Clinton is someone who has been in the Oval Office. He's done the job for eight years. He's done the job amid actually quite a few crises himself, some of his own making, some not. But he is someone who can speak from authority on that front, but also is known to be the explainer in chief, someone who can take wonky ideas and wonky numbers and boil them down into something that Americans can identify with.

I think we will see a lot of that tonight. But we will also see this unprecedented way in which all these people who used to work and live in the White House will be suddenly coming out and saying, I know how to do this job. I have seen people do this job. This guy who's in the White House right now doesn't have what it takes.

TAPPER: That's a good point. I mean, President Trump has shattered so many norms. Now Democrats shattering so many norms.

BORGER: Right.

TAPPER: Gloria, in looking at the overall messaging of the Democratic National Convention from last night and what we're anticipating tonight, Bernie Sanders, John Kasich, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Meg Whitman, who is this convention for? Who are Democrats trying to convince?

BORGER: Well, first of all, if you if you look at the Kasich and the Republicans, they're trying to say to independent voters, this guy is not a crazy liberal, and you can vote for him, and listen to these people tell you why character is so important in this in this election.

And I think you're also trying to solidify the base of the Democratic Party and say to those Democratic voters, who don't need any persuasion, but you have got to get out there and vote. They were trying to motivate their base and also convince Democrats that they are unified.

And I think, at this particular moment, Jake -- I don't know how long it's going to last. If Joe Biden is elected, the unity may go away on January 21. But, but, right now, at this moment, what Bernie Sanders was saying is that Donald Trump represents an existential threat to the country.

[16:50:13]

And Bernie Sanders said, I will work with moderates, I will work with conservatives to make sure that Donald Trump is not elected.

TAPPER: All right, Gloria Borger, Abby Phillip, thank you both so much. Appreciate it.

In our money lead: Millions of Americans have lost jobs during this pandemic, but there is good news for two retailers. Walmart saw an almost double-digit jump in sales over last year, boosted, experts say, by shoppers spending their stimulus checks.

Walmart took in just over $93 billion in sales between April and June. That includes a 97 percent increase in online sales. And online giant Amazon announced today that it plans to hire 3,500 additional workers across the United States. They will work on Amazon's cloud computing, on advertising and on its grocery business.

It was the original epicenter of coronavirus. Now Wuhan, China, looks like this, holding a massive water park party.

That's next.

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[16:56:02]

TAPPER: In our world lead today: Those are thousands of revelers gathered in an open-air water park for an electronic musical festival. And where are they?

They're in Wuhan, China. No masks, no social distancing measures anywhere to be seen. Earlier this year, Wuhan was, of course, ground zero of the coronavirus pandemic, and it underwent the world's first and arguably strictest lockdown.

But, in Wuhan, life has gradually returned to normal, since a 76-day lockdown was lifted in early April. The city has not reported any new cases since mid-May.

Following up on a story we told you about yesterday, after New Zealand's prime minister delayed the country's election, President Trump called the coronavirus situation in New Zealand -- quote -- "terrible."

Will Ripley joins me now from Hong Kong with the prime minister's response.

Well, first of all, can you put New Zealand's new COVID outbreak in perspective?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Any case is terrible, if you have that perspective, but New Zealand reported 13 new cases on Tuesday and nine new cases on Monday. They have an outbreak, a cluster of cases in their largest city of Auckland.

There are fewer than 100 active cases in the country total. And yet, as a result of those small numbers, New Zealand has locked down Auckland. They have postponed their general election by a month. Schools are closed, along with nonessential businesses. And they're testing tens of thousands of people to make sure that they identify every case that they can find in the community, get those people into controlled isolation, treatment and get those numbers back down to zero.

But to compare New Zealand's small cluster with the United States, which sees tens of thousands of cases every day, I mean, you look at the numbers by comparison, and, yes, New Zealand is a smaller country by population. It has fewer than five million people.

But even if you were to compare per capita, New Zealand has a far lower death rate and a significantly lower infection rate than the United States, in fact, lower than most other countries around the world, which is why their prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, essentially shrugged off President Trump's comments that they're in the middle of some big surge right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: New Zealand's nine cases in a day does not compare to the United States' tens of thousands, in fact, does not compete in most countries in the real world.

Obviously, it's patently wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: For more than 100 days, Jake, New Zealand had declared itself COVID-19-free. They don't know where the second cluster came from. They ruled out cargo coming from other countries. That is still a mystery.

And that is what's so concerning, that a country like New Zealand that had their number down to zero for more than three months now just does a resurgence of the virus, and they don't know where it came from.

TAPPER: Yes, just incredible for President Trump to say that 100 cases total is terrible, when we have 10 times that in deaths every day in the United States.

Will Ripley, thanks.

In France, the country is grappling with its own COVID spikes.

CNN's Melissa Bell joins us now from Paris.

And, Melissa, where in France are cases spiking? And do officials know that the source of the current outbreak?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, take Paris, for instance, Jake.

What we have seen over the course of the last 15 days is a sixfold increase in the number of coronavirus cases. But most worryingly perhaps is work happening in the south of the country, around Marseille, many new clusters there, new coronavirus cases, large spikes there in the number of cases.

And what we're seeing all around the Mediterranean, from France to Spain to Greece to Croatia, and even Italy, is that lifting of restrictions on the internal travel of Europeans has essentially led Europeans in the month of August, as they traditionally do, to seek out the sun and to go and catch coronavirus.

And this is interesting, Jake, because this is a continent that has essentially pretty well dealt with the coronavirus outbreak. So far, lockdowns were put down pretty efficiently. Now, these are governments trying to deal with this resurgence that comes from economies having gotten back onto their feet and exchanges happening once again.

Your biggest demographic being his as well, Jake, the younger people. The ones that are going out to celebrate that end of that lockdown, they're the ones being hurt the hardest -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Melissa, thank you so much.

That's it for THE LEAD today. Be sure to join us tonight for night two of the Democratic National Convention.

We will see you then.