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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Joe Biden Set to Deliver Address at Democratic National Convention; Vaccine Timeline?; Steve Bannon Arrested on Fraud Charges. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired August 20, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And in yet another note of delicious irony, those doing the arresting were law enforcement officials with the U.S. Postal Service.
Bannon charged by federal prosecutors with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering, Bannon and three other men accused of orchestrating a scheme to defraud donors, taking more than a million dollars donated to the group -- quote -- "We Build the Wall."
It's a group that was supposed to raise money to help build President Trump's border wall with private funds. After repeatedly assuring the public that they would not take a -- quote -- "penny" in compensation, that was, prosecutors said, today, a lie.
The four men lined their own pockets, Bannon alone receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars for his own personal gain, allegedly. Perhaps not surprisingly, this group of grifters were praised by President Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: This is private enterprise at its finest, doing it better, faster, cheaper than anything else. And what you guys are doing is pretty amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: It was pretty much just not necessarily in the way Donald Trump Jr. meant.
A spokesperson for the Trump Organization told "The New York Times" that Trump Jr. was also deceived by the group and had no involvement beyond that speech.
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf also visited the site where this group of alleged grifters was building some sort of wall, though it has been criticized.
Bannon joins, of course, a long list of Trump campaign officials and associates who have been charged or convicted of various crimes. President Trump earlier this afternoon calling the arrest a sad event, though even that weak expression of sympathy seemed to be for Bannon, not specifically for the supporters of the Trump agenda who got ripped off soon.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins is in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, where President Trump is set to deliver that attack on Joe Biden.
And, Kaitlan, the president, he's really going to go after Biden for ripping folks off? Kind of bad timing, given the Bannon arrest, no?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is hard to see how that does not loom in the background of this speech.
And before this happened, the intention of the president coming here was to counter Joe Biden, to kind of steal his thunder on the day he's going to finally accept the Democratic nomination.
But now Steve Bannon and this accusation that he cheated the president's own supporters and played a role in this out of money for one of the president's most promised election promises from the campaign trail in 2016 is going to be hanging over this event, as the president is trying to distance himself from someone who worked with him for several years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's a very sad thing for Mr. Bannon.
COLLINS (voice-over): President Trump attempting to distance himself after his former adviser Steve Bannon was indicted and charged with fraud alongside three others in what prosecutors say was a scheme to build one of his biggest campaign promises, the border wall.
TRUMP: I feel very badly. I haven't been dealing with him for a long period of time.
COLLINS: Bannon chaired Trump's 2016 campaign and served as his chief strategist, before being fired in 2018.
He's now accused of helping concoct a scheme to use funds allegedly raised for border wall construction, but instead used on personal expenses.
TRUMP: It sounded to me like showboating.
COLLINS: The We Build the Wall effort raised more than $25 million, though the group's founder, 38-year-old Air Force Veteran Brian Kolfage, once vowed to never take a cent in compensation.
BRIAN KOLFAGE, FOUNDER, WE BUILD THE WALL: We are good stewards to the money. And we have built the wall. We followed through on every promise.
COLLINS: Federal prosecutors say Kolfage, Bannon and two others defrauded hundreds of thousands of donors under the false pretense that all of the money would be spent on construction.
President Trump raised doubts about the group back in July.
TRUMP: When I read about it, I didn't like it. I said, this is for government. This isn't for private people.
COLLINS: But he falsely claimed he was unfamiliar with the group. Several Trump associates, like Erik Prince and Sheriff David Clarke serve as backers. And Kris Kobach claimed that Trump gave Build the Wall his blessing last January.
Postal inspectors arrested Bannon today while on a yacht off the coast of Connecticut. He joins a long list of Trump associates indicted or found guilty, including his former campaign chair, former attorney, longtime political adviser, deputy campaign chair, and former national security adviser.
Asked about that today, Trump deflected to President Barack Obama.
TRUMP: Well, no, there was great lawlessness in the Obama administration.
COLLINS: News of Bannon's indictment came as Trump is preparing to kick off the Republican National Convention.
Sources told CNN that Trump has been in overdrive, demanding live programming, not taped speeches like some at the Democratic Convention used, in hopes of outshining his opponent.
TRUMP: I understand they like me very much, which I appreciate.
COLLINS: The president is also facing scrutiny today after he embraced a fringe conspiracy theory known as QAnon.
TRUMP: I have heard these are people that love our country.
COLLINS: The conspiracy believes that a secret group of Satan- worshipping politicians run child sex rings and plot to take Trump down.
[15:05:00]
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He is talking about his supporters. He believes his supporters are good, hardworking people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, Jake, I was reading through this indictment related to Steve Bannon today, and I have got to read you this quote from Brian Kolfage, who is the founder of this group that GoFundMe had actually raised questions about early on after he had first created it.
At one point, he said -- quote -- "It's not possible to steal the money. We have an advisory committee. I can't touch that money. It's not for me." Of course, that advisory committee is made up of several people that the president denied being familiar with earlier today.
TAPPER: I'm sure he did.
Kaitlan Collins in Pennsylvania, thanks.
We're going to talk about the QAnon theory with a former FBI agent.
But, right now, I want to discuss with former federal prosecutors Elie Honig and Laura Coates the Bannon indictment and others.
Elie, let me start with you.
Bannon and the three others are charged with one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, one kind of conspiracy to commit money laundering. How significant are these charges? It sounds kind of like a penny-ante scam, not like any sort of sophisticated conspiracy.
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, you're right. It's not sophisticated. It's $25 million alleged here.
Yes, Steve Bannon is in an awful lot of trouble and others could be as well pretty soon. So, Bannon really has three options here. A, he can go to trial. Going to trial in federal courts, particularly in the SDNY, is a very -- a very high-risk proposition. The vast majority of federal trials result in conviction.
If he gets convicted, given the loss amount here, he could be looking at seven to nine years in prison, if you just look at the federal guidelines.
Option two, he can plead guilty, he can get a few less years than seven to nine. And option three is he can cooperate. And in the SDNY, if you cooperate, it's all or nothing. You have to be willing to admit everything you did. And, importantly, you have to be willing to give the SDNY information about any other crimes that anybody else committed that you know of.
So that's why there may be some other nervous people around today.
TAPPER: So, Laura, does that mean that this is kind of like a race to who's going to be the first wanting to flip? And, also, how much jail time could these four men be facing?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the often adage is, is this idea of the first person to speak gets the most lenience in a lot of these aspects, has more control over what's going to happen.
But, of course, the idea here -- and you alluded to this, Jake -- the idea of doing this in broad daylight, trying to use in a way and exploit and bilk the actual base of Trump, and the way that he was arguing for the wall, and then trying to funnel it through this shell company, this nonprofit -- using profits, et cetera, for their profiteering and profit is a very odd thing. And so the idea here that they have done it and have all the evidence,
it may be that the SDNY doesn't have a whole lot of incentive about trying to give a plea. They may have all the information and all the people who are already involved and therefore no longer need to say, well, let me try to get a plea to get more evidence of what's happened against the other people.
And if that happens, they could all be facing the amount of time, according to the sentencing guidelines. And I don't know that any of them have any criminal records that would expose them to something higher than that.
But the idea here is that it was done in such a blatant way, they already have all these defendants, they may not have any reason to say, I'd like someone to come forward and help build this case. Remember, it was exposed to the public at this point. These are very high-profile people, Steve Bannon being arrested off of a boat in Connecticut, they have a lot of evidence here.
TAPPER: And, Laura, what kind of jail time are we talking about?
COATES: You know, I think -- I have to look at the actual statute and figure out what we're talking about, the amount of exposure they have, but I think Elie alluded to it earlier, but I'm not quite sure how much time they're each facing.
But federal charges usually around this time would have a significant weight in talking about fraud. I mean, this is not a misdemeanor offense. It's not less than a year. This is something that could be greater than a year, could have up to 10 years, I believe, and you also have the notion here, these are felony offenses.
These are not lightweight crimes that are done with a local jurisdiction, perhaps. This is the SDNY saying that more than one person associated yet again with the orbit of Trump, even if they have a fractured history at this point, is facing criminal charges in the very SDNY where we had a few months ago the SDNY attorney stepping down.
Well, stepping down is a light way of saying what Barr says happened.
TAPPER: He was, yes, basically fired.
COATES: Yes.
TAPPER: Elie, do you think there is a possibility Bannon could plead guilty and push for the sentencing before January 20, which could theoretically lead to a pardon from President Trump? He has been known to pardon his friends and allies.
HONIG: Sure, Jake, that absolutely could happen.
So, first of all, yes, Laura's right. These are very serious charges. The maximum for each charge is 20 years here. If you run the guidelines, sort of roughly, given the fraud amount, it comes out to about seven to nine years. That's not binding on the court. That's optional, but it's important
to know that.
I also agree with Laura. It looks like they have a really strong case here. They don't seem to me to need any more information this case. But when you're a prosecutor, you always want more. And if there's other roads you can go down with these guys, that's a reason to cooperate, people.
[15:10:03]
And, Jake, yes, you're right. There absolutely is the possibility of a pardon in play here. The SDNY is part of the Justice Department. That is a federal charge. The president constitutionally has the ability to pardon Steve Bannon or anybody else in a federal case.
It would be enormously politically difficult, I think, to do that, but that could happen.
TAPPER: And, Laura, you mentioned when Bill Barr, the attorney general, who has been known to do pretty much almost anything President Trump wants him to do, when he fired, essentially, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman.
And Berman, he fought that until it became clear that it wasn't going to be a political appointee, that his deputy, Strauss, was going to be named to this position. Do you think that it's possible that one of the reasons he wanted to maintain -- that he fought is to make sure that Strauss replaced him was because of this case coming down the pike?
COATES: It could be this case in any number of cases.
Remember, one reason he didn't want the political replacement was because that person had no prosecutorial experience. You need a prosecutor to head up these prosecutorial units like the SDNY and any other U.S. attorney.
But also the idea that he had to make sure that the career attorneys, those who are not political appointees, would still be able to march forward with their cases without hindrance or interference or undue influence by the executive branch in a way that pandered to their sort of friends and comrades, I think, was absolutely top of mind for him.
Whether this is the case, as opposed to ones involving Rudy Giuliani and his associates, Lev Parnas and the like, I'm not sure which one was a priority, but I suspect all of them, Jake, fall under the umbrella of cases where they say, look, if you're going to put the thumb on the scale of justice, why don't you put it in favor of balancing it, not tipping in a way that actually benefits only those who are donors, only those who are in your orbit, only those who are your friends?
If you want to tip the scale, so to speak, do it in the interest of equity and justice and having a blind eye towards it. So this could be one of many. And, frankly, Jake, I'm eager to see what other cases might be down the pipeline.
I mean, Manhattan seems to be the hot spot of cases where they are invested, of course, as other jurisdictions, in ensuring accountability and that no one or no entity or no nonprofit is above the law.
TAPPER: All right, Elie Honig, Laura Coates, thanks to both of you.
HONIG: Thank you.
TAPPER: As more longtime Trump associates face charges, the president is embracing a conspiracy theory and group that the FBI has called a potential domestic terrorism threat. We're going to discuss what that might mean.
But, first, the pandemic and the new timeline just pushed back on a coronavirus vaccine, how long Americans may have to wait for a vaccine, assuming one is developed. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:01]
TAPPER: We're back with breaking news.
Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, also a physician, has tested positive for coronavirus, his office just announced. Cassidy was tested after being notified last night that he was exposed to an infected individual. The senator is quarantining, his office says, and notifying people with whom he has come in contact.
We are also learning today that Dr. Anthony Fauci is recovering after surgery this morning to remove a polyp from his vocal cord. The White House Coronavirus Task Force member has previously addressed his hoarse voice, explaining it began after he had the flu late last year.
We wish both Dr. Fauci and Senator Cassidy a speedy recovery.
Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Moncef Slaoui says he expects a coronavirus vaccine to be widely available sometime next year, possibly between April and June. Slaoui told "Business Insider" he feels confident the majority of the six vaccines backed by Operation Warp Speed will demonstrate efficacy.
Joining me now to discuss is Dr. Peter Hotez. He's co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital.
Dr. Hotez, good to see you, as always.
As someone who's also working on a vaccine, what do you make of this prediction, this timeline?
DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yes, it's about what we have been saying. I have been saying pretty consistently, Jake, including on your show, quarter three, Q3 of 2021. Dr. Fauci said Q1, Q2. And so -- and I say split the difference and
you get around the middle of 2021. The question is -- and by then, we will know which vaccines are working and how well they're working and whether they're completely protective or partially protective, and then vaccines will begin rolling out to the public around that time.
TAPPER: So, to say the obvious, this pandemic is awful. I mean, the devastation is awful, the death, the health, the inconveniences, the children not being able to go to school, obviously colossal failure by the by the Trump administration to contain the virus.
Even with a vaccine -- let's hope that there is one -- do you think life will return to what we knew it as back before this all happened once there is a vaccine?
HOTEZ: Yes, I think Moncef made a comment like that. And it's hard to be overly confident about that.
Here's why. We don't know how well these vaccines perform. I'm confident we will have multiple vaccines against COVID-19. But some of them will only be partially -- may only be partially protective, meaning they will reduce severity of illness, but not stop transmission of the virus.
So -- and if that were to happen, then we're still going to need masks, we're still going to need contact tracing, we're still going to need a lot of the elements of public health infrastructure that we're trying to put in place now, a little too slowly, but we're starting to put it in place.
So that's really important to understand that. These vaccines may not be miracle solutions. I know the White House likes to think about miracles like hydroxychloroquine or oleandrin, and now vaccines, but it doesn't really work that way.
There's a good possibility these vaccines will be companion technologies, important companion technologies, make a big difference. But they may not be totally replacement technologies.
[15:20:06]
We don't know if they're going to be like measles vaccines that prevent infection and reduce transmission, or if they're going to be partially protective, say, like a flu vaccine in a year--
TAPPER: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
HOTEZ: -- between the flu virus and the vaccine.
TAPPER: Let me ask you.
Russia announced that 40,000 people are going to participate in their trials for their COVID-19 vaccine candidate starting next week. In addition to Russia, the vaccine is also going to be tested in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines, possibly Brazil, possibly India.
What do you make of all that?
HOTEZ: Yes, the thing I get concerned about with what Russia has done is, they have already approved their vaccine, they have registered the vaccine, and only now are they saying they're doing clinical trials, after the fact, in part, I guess, because of the all of the international pressure on them.
So it's very disappointing how the Russians have conducted themselves. I like -- they're trying to pitch this as some incredible scientific breakthrough. And I'd like to point out that making COVID-19 vaccines is not that technically a high hurdle.
It's about -- it's an old-school problem in virology inducing an immune response against the spike protein, but the challenge is doing this under a quality umbrella, with quality control, quality assurance, doing good clinical trials to show the vaccine actually works and is safe.
That's the hard part of vaccines. And that's the part that the Russians seem to be not really -- not really following in a good-faith way. And it gives me -- and I'm very concerned about what could happen with that vaccine.
TAPPER: Right. It has to be a good vaccine.
So let's talk about schools, because obviously that's a big concern for a lot of people. Right now in Detroit, the first day is scheduled for September 8, but the teachers union there has voted to authorize a safety strike.
Meanwhile, there are at least 17 states reporting COVID cases at colleges and universities, in-person learning certainly not gotten off to the start that some people we're hoping, although I can't say I'm surprised by any of it.
What is your advice to educators?
HOTEZ: Look, the teachers, the principals, the school districts, -- and I have been speaking to a lot of teachers and principals and school board members -- they are doing everything they can to ensure safety, I mean, things with Plexiglas we never would have dreamed of, social distancing, monitoring who's coming out of the building, testing.
The problem is this, Jake. You can't do it in an area where there's lots of virus transmission. Even all those good-faith efforts will fail.
I worry -- there are parts of country right now where you can do this safely, maybe up in New England and a few other states, but for many areas where there's lots of transmission, especially down in the South, even with all those good-faith efforts, it will collapse.
By collapse, I mean, we will see the same thing that happened in Georgia, where students and ultimately teachers will start getting sick after a few weeks. So, this has been an ongoing problem with the White House. They have not stepped up to lead that national program to halt community transmission across the country.
They could have done this. And instead they're basically dumping it on the teachers. It's unfair and it's unsafe.
TAPPER: Just imagine if President Trump had done the right thing back in March and how he'd be 15 points up in the polls right now over Joe Biden, if he had just done what the scientific community was asking him to do.
Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
With the pandemic impacting his campaign tonight, Joe Biden will give one of the biggest speeches of his political career. New details just in about what he is expected to say this evening.
That's next.
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[15:28:32]
TAPPER: And we're back with our 2020 lead.
In just a few hours, Joe Biden will formally accept the Democratic nomination for president of the United States. A senior aide for Biden tells CNN there will be significant criticism of President Trump in Biden's speech, but Biden sees the moment as -- quote -- "bigger than Trump" and plans to be forward-looking and optimistic, we're told.
CNN's Jessica Dean is live for us in Wilmington, Delaware, where Biden will speak this evening.
Jessica, what else do we know about Biden's speech?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, this is certainly the biggest speech of Joe Biden's political career. He's run for president now three times, decades in public service, so a lot riding on tonight.
And we're told that, yes, while there may be criticisms of President Trump, he will not be a central figure in Biden's speech tonight, his aides saying that this will be a forward-looking speech, that it will be aspirational. He will be talking about the promise of America and what they can do if Biden and Harris are elected to, in their campaign terms, build back better, but their economic plan, how to pull people out of COVID, and really make America work for a cross-section of people who feel like they have been left behind.
And, interestingly, Jake, as someone who's followed Joe Biden since he first announced his candidacy back in April of 2019, we heard this time and time again as he went across the country talking to voters. He would critique Trump, but, ultimately, Jake, always came back to a very positive vision of America, something that he always made sure he talked about whenever he was interacting with voters.
TAPPER: Jessica, there were criticisms after the 2004 convention, the last time there was an incumbent Republican, that Democrats made a strong case against George W. Bush, but they didn't make a strong enough
