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The Lead with Jake Tapper

CDC Predicts Nearly 195,000 U.S. Deaths By September 12; Rave Reviews For Biden Speech; Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D- IL); Postmaster General Testifies Before Senate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 21, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Today, President Trump, with zero evidence, claimed that the election will be an embarrassment and a catastrophe because of vote-by-mail, while his postmaster general was elsewhere stating the exact opposite in congressional testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS DEJOY, U.S. POSTMASTER GENERAL: As we head into the election season, I want to assure this committee and the American public that the Postal Service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time.

This sacred duty is my number one priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a Trump donor, attempted to calm fears over ballots being delayed in the mail.

And he stood by the vote-by-mail process, which has been used safely by millions of Americans, by him, not to mention at least six members of the Trump Cabinet, the Trump press secretary, the vice president of the United States, and in this video released by the Trump campaign to encourage Republicans to vote by mail, by the president himself.

DeJoy testified today that he has committed processing all mail-in ballots as first-class mail, promising that 95 percent of ballots will be delivered in one to three days. DeJoy earlier this week had announced that he would pause changes to the Postal Service that he was making to avoid -- quote -- "even the appearance of any impact on election mail."

But these are photos of mail sorting machines that were already removed before DeJoy's reversal. Today, DeJoy said there are no plans to put those machines back in service.

CNN's Pamela Brown joins me now to talk about this.

And, Pamela, DeJoy tried to make it clear that the U.S. Postal Service is prepared to handle this massive volume, tens of millions of mail-in ballots, and that all Americans, he said, should be allowed to vote by mail.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

Very early on in this virtual hearing today, Jake, Louis DeJoy, the postmaster general, seemed to want to distance himself from President Trump, who you pointed out has railed against mail-in balloting -- mail-in voting, rather.

DeJoy, in contrast, assured lawmakers that American people should have faith in the system, that he is a supporter of mail-in voting, that is something he does himself, and that it's something the American public should be able to do. Here's what he said during that hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEJOY: I have voted by mail for a number of years. The Postal Service will deliver every ballot and process every ballot in time that it receives.

I think the American public should be able to vote by mail, and the Postal Service will support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And DeJoy also made the case that election that will be prioritized.

And this is important, because CNN had obtained documents, Jake, showing that the Postal Service wanted to make a change in election mail and wanted states to pay for first-class mail, which would be expensive and a change from years past, and so that election mail would be placed in with the rest of the mail, which will be processed more slowly.

But, today, DeJoy made clear that would not be happening, that, in fact, election mail will be treated as first-class mail.

TAPPER: And, Pamela, DeJoy was asked whether he had spoken with members of the administration, including President Trump, about any proposed changes. What did he have to say about that?

BROWN: Yes, that's right.

That's been one of the big questions from Democrats, whether President Trump appointed him to be in this role to sabotage the Postal Service in order to impact election mail, mail-in voting. But, in fact, DeJoy said today that he had not spoken with the president about the Postal Service, outside of just a congratulatory meeting that they had recently.

But he said he had never talked to him about the changes, those controversial changes that the Postal Service was implementing. He also said he didn't talk to Mark Meadows, the president's chief of staff, about these changes as well.

It was a little squishier when it comes to Treasury Secretary Mike -- Mnuchin. He said that he had talked Mnuchin about the overall plan, but didn't get into the details of the changes he was making.

TAPPER: All right. Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

Joining me now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He serves on the House Oversight Committee. He will be among those questioning Postmaster General DeJoy At the hearing on Monday.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

So, DeJoy said today that ballots are going to be prioritized as first-class mail, and that no further changes will take place before Election Day.

Take a listen to part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEJOY: There has been no changes in any policies with regard to the election now for the 2020 election.

I want to assure this committee and the American public that the Postal Service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Congressman, based on what you heard today, are you satisfied that the Postal Service is doing all it can to facilitate this election?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Absolutely not.

The fact that he would not commit to reversing the changes, reversing the damage that's already been done is testament to the fact that we can't take him at his word fully.

[15:05:03]

For instance, there are hundreds of mail sorting machines that have been decommissioned. Some people even claim that some of them have been destroyed. We want to know where they are and whether he will commit to putting them back in place.

Same with the blue mailboxes. Hundreds and hundreds have been removed in his very short tenure of just a couple months of being postmaster general. Again, he will not commit to putting those back.

And with regard to election mail, there was some policy change that was made. That's why your reporter found that documentation. We'd like reassurance that the policy change was reversed, and not only the ballots will receive first-class mail status, but the (AUDIO GAP) applications for the ballots do as well, which, as you know, most local election authorities are required before (AUDIO GAP) receive a ballot in the first place. TAPPER: You broke up a little bit. Just to clarify, you're saying not

just the ballots would be first-class, but you want the applications for ballots to receive first class. Just -- you had a little glitch there.

So, let me ask you. DeJoy insisted that mailboxes have been removed in past election years. He also said that none of the proposed post office closures were political in nature. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEJOY: I confirmed post office closures was not a directive I gained. That was -- I gave. That was around before I got in. There's a process to that.

When I found out about it, and it had the reaction that we did, I have suspended that until after the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response to that, Congressman?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, then put the mailboxes back. Put the mail sorting machines back.

And also, very importantly, changes were made with regard to overtime rules, such that service levels have not been restored, Jake. First- class mail has been left on the dock floors, on loading room floors, things that never happened in the past.

I have received 1,612 calls, e-mails and letters from my constituents who are outraged not (AUDIO GAP) right to vote has been interfered with or will likely be interfered with if changes persist, but they're not receiving their medications. They haven't been receiving their payments and parcels or Social Security checks.

I mean, this is a devastating set of changes that have been made. And nobody's tolerating it.

TAPPER: Obviously, any of the slowdowns are horrible and need to be fixed.

DeJoy did say in his testimony today that the changes that are being made in terms of post office mailboxes being removed and such are meant to improve the service to the American people.

And you know that it has happened in the past that mailboxes have been removed.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Sure.

You can ask my constituents whether they feel that service has improved. And on top of the fact that they're not going to say that it has improved, it's actually deteriorated rapidly, the president just a couple of weeks ago -- give him points for candor -- told us what he's trying to do with the USPS, which is, he's trying to monkey with mail- in voting to try to reduce it and to try to interfere with upcoming the election.

So, all that together yields the conclusion that these reasons that the postmaster has been -- postmaster general has been giving, that he's trying to improve efficiency and trying to improve on-time performance, are merely pretexts for what appear to be changes designed to help President Trump at the polls in November.

And that is the underlying concern that I will be the backdrop for the grilling that he's going to get on Monday from my committee.

TAPPER: You have questioned DeJoy's appointment. You have questioned his qualifications.

He said today that he's done massive transformational projects for Boeing, for Verizon. He touted his commitment to public service. He said he has a plan for the success of the Postal Service.

Are you still concerned that he's not up to the job?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes.

And I circulated a letter, along with my colleague Katie Porter, talking about the selection process in which he was appointed. It was highly irregular, Jake. Normally, the Board of Governors contracts with an outside consulting firm to find the best-qualified applicant and best-qualified person to take over as postmaster general to remove the politics from the situation.

However, in this case, Mr. DeJoy was actually pushed upon the Board of Governors by the White House. He was not vetted by the outside consulting firm or search firm, and he did not even undergo a background check.

[15:10:05]

And that's why one of the Board of Governors members, Mr. Williams, actually, in part, resigned because of that.

And so we're going to be exploring that as well with Mr. DeJoy on Monday.

TAPPER: Now, I know that the Postal Service is a service. It's in the Constitution. It's not a business.

But DeJoy says that the post office needs to get its fiscal house in order, pointing out that the agency has lost $80 billion since 2007. Do you disagree with the idea that the Postal Service needs to make changes to help it more -- help it become more financially sustainable?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I don't disagree with that.

I think there need to be changes. For one, there's a pre-funding mandate on the Postal Service instituted in 2006 requiring them to pre-fund retiree health care benefits for 75 years, Jake. I was a small business person. I have never seen any similar mandate

on any company in the private or public sector. And so that has to be changed.

And also the Postal Service obviously needs some other reforms to make sure that it's sustainable. But in the lead-up to the election, Jake, massive changes should not be made that would risk the election results and disenfranchise voters.

That is one of the biggest fears driving so many of my constituents to contact me right now.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat of Illinois, thanks for your time, sir. We will be watching the testimony and your questions on Monday.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much, Jake.

TAPPER: It was once solid Trump country, but now some voters in a critical state are afraid the president is leaving them in the dust.

And a new warning, that the coronavirus death toll could explode yet again because some are not getting the point that large crowds and no masks are a really, really bad idea right now.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:23]

TAPPER: In our health lead today, a haunting prediction from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: There may be nearly 195,000 total deaths due to coronavirus by September 12 in the U.S. That's just about three weeks from now.

Contributing to the case count, especially in rural areas, what are called super-spreading events. An Emory University study of Georgia found that mass gatherings are playing a key role in spreading the virus in rural areas especially, mass gatherings such as the one in South Dakota, where a motorcycle rally earlier this month has led to at least seven new cases and spread into the next state over, Nebraska.

We just learned a tattoo artist working that day has tested positive for COVID-19.

Joining me now to discuss this and much more, Dr. Jeanne Marrazzo, the director of infectious disease at University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Dr. Marrazzo, thanks so much for joining us.

First, what's your reaction to this CDC prediction of 195,000 deaths in total by just three weeks from now?

DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: Yes, thanks, Jake. Good to be here, as always.

My reaction is, of course, sadness, because, remember, the deaths represent individuals, as I know you know. And it's -- every single death is really a tragedy that we would have liked to have prevented.

I think that it's a realistic prediction, based on the accrual of deaths that we have seen over the last month or so. The situation with the death prediction is interesting.

As you know, and as Dr. Redfield emphasized, it really peaks about three weeks, two to three weeks after you start seeing the correlated peak in the number of cases.

So, we have pretty predictably been seeing this increase in deaths about that time after. So, if you factor in the fact that we are seeing a decline in the number of cases, that number is probably a best-case scenario, which is a really terrifying thing, but probably at least likely to be true.

TAPPER: I don't want to get you involved in politics, but Joe Biden yesterday, talking about the coronavirus pandemic, said, it didn't have to be this way.

Every health expert I have talked to has said the same thing. It didn't have to be this way. Do you agree?

MARRAZZO: I do agree.

And I think the number of parameters that we could have done better are numerous. I mean, it's always -- in medicine, we say the best diagnostic tool is the retrospectoscope, where you go back, like a Monday-morning quarterback as a sports analogy, and you say what you could have done.

These are things that it's not in retrospect. It's things that we were really clamoring for and begging for all along. And they included adequate access to widespread diagnostic testing. We know the debacle that that entailed. That didn't happen early enough.

And then, most critically, we needed a coordinated national plan. And we still need a coordinated national plan. But, as you know, we have got states making their own plans. We have got university, college campuses making their own plans.

And so with that, we just have a whole diversity of approaches, and the situation where you got a state like Georgia that is really having a very hard time and other states doing very well. So, that did not need to be the case, especially when you look at other countries, as we have discussed--

TAPPER: Yes.

MARRAZZO: -- that have done very well.

TAPPER: So, regarding this Emory study, how big are these events that should be avoided? How many people, what kinds of events? MARRAZZO: So, it depends.

To be safest, you probably should be less than 10. Less than 25 is great and less than 50 is absolute. So, when you look at the super- spreading events, they have been things like funerals, barbecues, church services, revival services.

[15:20:09]

You mentioned the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, which was a very big event, and people were very clearly not wearing masks in some of those photographs.

So, the smaller, the better. But the key is, again, social distancing, combined with the barriers of mask. So, if you have 10 people having a driveway happy hour, and you're sitting six feet apart all around, it's probably OK, especially if you're outside.

If you have that number of people mingling at a buffet table, where you're sharing utensils to get food and all that sort of thing, that's going to be a lot more problematic. So those are some general numbers. But the context is really important.

TAPPER: Would standing in line to vote on Election Day be an example of a potential super-spreader event?

MARRAZZO: It could be, unless you followed the precautions that I have seen many places using.

And those might include standing six feet apart. And it certainly could include masks. So, if you combine some measure of that six-feet distance, ideally -- and that may be tough in some places where you don't have the physical space to create that kind of line.

But if you augment that with consistent mask-wearing, that actually can be very safe. We have not heard of any infections that have been acquired because of these types of events. So, that's really a good thing.

TAPPER: Another place we're seeing mass gatherings, colleges and universities.

Syracuse just suspended 23 students for ignoring the college's guidelines. An excerpt of a letter from the vice chancellor to the student body reads -- quote -- "The students who gathered on the quad last night may have done damage enough to shut down campus, including residence halls and in-person learning, before the academic semester even begins."

These were students outside, as I understand it. Should students that are back on college campuses not socialize in any way? Or, if they do, how do they do it?

MARRAZZO: Right.

So, a couple of things. I do not think we should outlaw socialization. The whole point of getting back on campus is recognizing that people really need their lifetime milestones. I mean, we have had now six, seven months of kids missing really important milestones, whether it's graduations or proms or their first day at school, whatever that is.

So, to the extent that we can do this safely, I do really respect the efforts to do that. What does safely mean? It means, again, going back to those numbers we just talked about for gatherings. So, safe is not being in a Barr with 50 people and drinking, on top of not wearing masks.

Safe might be getting together with people at a place where there are 10 of you, you're wearing masks, and you're being very cautious.

The other thing is, the kids who were outside not wearing masks, we have no idea when they acquired those infections. So I worry a little bit about pointing blame at people, when we really don't understand the context of how these things happen. So we have some work to do to figure this out.

But I do think we will get there.

TAPPER: Dr. Jeanne Marrazzo, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

MARRAZZO: My pleasure. Thank you.

TAPPER: Did Joe Biden slam the door on one of President Trump's favorite lines of attack?

How his speech could theoretically change this race and how Trump plans to counterattack -- that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:15]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today: The now official Democratic nominee, Joe Biden, is receiving widespread praise for his speech last night from even some members of the conservative media.

Of course, the Trump campaign had made what seems a strategic blunder in setting the bar for Mr. Biden quite low.

CNN's M.J. Lee looks now at how Biden's speech could change his campaign approach and what it might mean for the president when it's his turn to take the stage next week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, it's with great honor and humility I accept this nomination for president of the United States of America.

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With these words, Joe Biden kicking off the final 74-day sprint to Election Day, but don't expect campaign rallies anytime soon. A senior campaign aide telling CNN it's unclear whether Biden will

campaign in-person this fall because of the pandemic, but saying they have -- quote -- "new confidence" they can reach out to voters differently, including next week, during the Republican Convention.

TOM PEREZ, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The Republican Convention next week will be marked by chaos, chaos, chaos.

LEE: Last night, Biden giving the biggest speech of his political career with a somber warning to the nation about the current occupant of the White House.

BIDEN: The current president has cloaked America in darkness for much too long, too much anger, too much fear, too much division.

LEE: And promising to guide the nation out of that darkness.

BIDEN: I will be an ally of the light, not the darkness. It's time for us, for we, the people, to come together.

And make no mistake. United, we can and will overcome this season of darkness in America.

LEE: The former vice president making a broad appeal to nontraditional Democratic voters, saying it is time to rise above partisan politics.

BIDEN: I will work hard for those who didn't support me.