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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Postmaster General Testifies Before Congress; Interview With Rep. Steve Scalise (R-LA); President Trump Trying to Rush Coronavirus Vaccine?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, is testifying on Capitol Hill right now.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Cortez is asking him questions.

Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): -- postmaster general?

LOUIS DEJOY, U.S. POSTMASTER GENERAL: I have not.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Have you e-mailed, texted, called, videoconferenced or communicated with your former company XPO Logistics?

DEJOY: I have many friends at the company, and I have spoken them casually over several months. Yes, I probably would have spoken to them.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you.

Now, you started in your role as postmaster general on June 16 of this year.

That's a very big job. I don't need to tell you that. And it has a lot of responsibility. You mentioned meeting with President Trump, Secretary Mnuchin. I can't even imagine how busy that must be.

Now, do you keep a daily calendar?

DEJOY: I do, yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Have you or your staff made any deletions to your calendar since becoming postmaster general on June 16?

DEJOY: I don't -- I don't think so.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You don't think so?

DEJOY: No.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Have ethics -- do ethics officers at USPS have access to your calendar to screen conflicts of interest?

DEJOY: We have an ethics officer that looks at meetings that I have, yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And they have full access to your calendar?

DEJOY: They were -- yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Can we get a commitment from you to submit your calendar dating back to June 16 to this committee?

DEJOY: I don't know. I will check with counsel. And

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well--

DEJOY: Don't want to set a precedent for my calendar to be submitted every two months.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, according to regulations that we currently have, electronic calendars that are submitted and maintained on USPS computers are agency records.

And so can we get your commitment to hand that calendar over to this committee as a matter--

(CROSSTALK)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- investigation?

DEJOY: I'm new to this. If that is, in fact, a process that our counsel says I must comply with, then I will do that, yes

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you.

Madam -- Madam Chairwoman, I would say the details of this calendar are extraordinarily important to the committee's investigations. And if we cannot receive them voluntarily, I would recommend consideration of a subpoena for these details.

Now, lastly, and, selfishly, I represent New York's 14th Congressional District. We have written the agency several times regarding accessibility for a ramp in our historic Jackson Heights post office.

And I would greatly appreciate return correspondence to make sure that we can ensure that our disabled and elderly constituents can get access to the post office.

And thank you very much. I yield my time.

DEJOY: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gentlelady yields.

TAPPER: You have been watching the postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, facing lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

We're going to continue to monitor that House oversight hearing.

Let's turn now to the 2020 lead.

This afternoon, the Republican National Convention officially renominated Donald J. Trump as the GOP candidate for president and, in a matter of hours, the prime-time events kick off, all happening, amid, frankly a terrible streak of news for President Trump, a secret recording of his sister calling him a liar, a phony and cruel. That's become public.

A top Trump adviser and former campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, announced she's leaving the White House to devote more time to her family.

We just saw former Trump campaign CEO and White House chief strategist Steve Bannon arrested and charged with fraud, not to mention, far more importantly, the ever raging coronavirus pandemic.

And now there are questions about whether President Trump is playing politics with treatments for the virus -- or continuing to play politics, we should say -- announcing last night that he broke a logjam at the Food and Drug Administration to authorize the emergency use of plasma from recovered coronavirus patients, a potential treatment that a source tells me several top health officials in the government have been quite skeptical of because there is not yet enough data behind it, they believe.

But the pressure has been on. The president this weekend publicly accuse the FDA, publicly and ludicrously, we should add, of being part of the deep state, deliberately delaying a vaccine until after Election Day so as to hurt him. Again, ludicrous, a charge for which there is zero evidence.

And we should note that the FDA says they're not being influenced by politics.

CNN has also learned that, in July, top Trump advisers raised the possibility of emergency approval of a vaccine before phase three trials are completed, which would break scientific protocols, potentially, to help the president politically.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is in Washington.

And, Kaitlan, we're learning new details about a meeting in which White House officials raised the possibility of an emergency use authorization for a vaccine before it's ready, before the phase three trials are complete.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, this is at a meeting at the end of July, when the Treasury secretary and the chief of staff, Mark Meadows, were up on Capitol Hill meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer about those coronavirus legislation talks. And it was during that meeting that Schumer and Pelosi asked for an

update on how the vaccine progress was coming. They started talking about that AstraZeneca effort, saying that they believe potentially it could be ready as soon as next month.

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But then they also talked about this idea of potentially having an emergency use authorization before those critical phase three trials that vaccines go through before they're ready to be administered to the public are completed.

That was said if there was enough data showing at that point for them to do an emergency use authorization. That's similar to what the president announced yesterday when it comes to the plasma treatment for coronavirus.

And now, in response to this story, the administration is pushing back, saying that they are not trying to cut corners when it comes to vaccine treatment. That's something that actually Pelosi raised concerns about during that meeting.

And a spokesperson for the Department of Health and Human Services said they are not going to be fast-tracking any vaccine development for political reasons. But it does raise questions, after you saw what the president accused the FDA of doing over the weekend, deliberately slowing progress, he says, because they want to wait until after the election has already happened, and something that the FDA, of course, has denied.

And we saw the president announce this emergency use for plasma just a day before his convention kicks off. So that's why it's raising concerns that he may want to try something similar when it comes to a vaccine.

TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, this all comes at the beginning of the Republican National Convention, but at a time where there are a lot of dark clouds of the president's head, his top adviser and aide, Kellyanne Conway, leaving, audio surfacing of his sister delivering blistering personal criticism of him, Steve Bannon arrested, these lurid allegations against this prominent evangelical backer, Jerry Falwell Jr.

There's a lot going on that's not great in the president's world.

COLLINS: Yes, it's not exactly how an incumbent wants to kick off a convention.

And so the president is going to try to rewrite that narrative. There's going to be a lot of Trump over the next few days, because rarely do these -- do presidents or do candidates appear every single day of their convention, usually just in small ways, but we are told the president will be making an appearance every single day of this convention in some way.

We already saw that with his speech in Charlotte earlier, but he does have these headlines hanging over him. It's not the weekend you would want to have where your sister is recorded on audio saying that you're a liar with no principles, and then, of course, a top strategist who has been with the president since his last campaign, Kellyanne Conway, now announcing she's going to be leaving next week.

And one of her last appearances as a White House official will be at the convention this week, when she's scheduled to speak on Wednesday.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

The Republican National Convention is officially under way. This afternoon, President Trump made a surprise appearance at a very scaled-down North Carolina convention site after being formally nominated for a second term by his party.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at Mellon Auditorium, the Washington, D.C., home of convention activities.

Jeff, we heard, frankly, something of a rambling speech from the president this afternoon, full of false charges about Obama and Biden and vote by mail. Is this what we should expect for the week, or is there any effort by the president's allies to try to hone that in and make him seem more presidential to wavering voters?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, take President Trump, just moments after going over the threshold of delegates that needed to accept the renomination for his a second term as the Republican Party candidate for president, he did, as you said, launched into just a series of familiar grievances, really starting out with the fact that vote-by-mail is not going to be fair.

So he was trying to delegitimize the election. This flies into the face of what Republican advisers and campaign advisers have been saying for several days, saying, it's going to be an optimistic Republican Convention. He's going to show and discuss the optimism and the aspirations that are coming in the wake of this pandemic.

But that certainly was not what the president was revealing. So we will find out if his speech when he delivers that from the South Lawn of the White House on Thursday night is going to be as hopeful and optimistic or if it's going to be simply a laundry list of grievances.

But, Jake, the Republican National Convention in a very different form is beginning here tonight. And let's look at the lineup of speakers. It's very much going to be a face of the new face of this Republican Party, Senator Tim Scott, Republican of South Carolina, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, Donald Trump Jr.

Those are some of the three sort of new generation leaders, if you will, who will be speaking this evening. But the open question is, what role is the president going to have every night of this convention?

White House aides are saying he is going to make an appearance at least. He may not speak every evening, but this is the Trump show. Make no mistake about it. So all of these other speakers certainly are just in addition to his appearance, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

Joining me now to discuss, Republican Minority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana, a close ally and confidant of President Trump.

Congressman, good to see you again.

You're speaking tonight at the convention. The theme is "Land of Promise."

What do you plan to say?

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Well, Jake, what I want to talk about -- and good to be with you, by the way.

I really want to just share what President Trump is like when you're working with him. I mean, I get to see how much he cares about people. I get to see how much he's fought for and delivered for the hardworking men and women, especially the forgotten men and women of this country, as we work to rebuild the middle class, obviously, getting through COVID, some of the things he's done even with Operation Warp Speed to help make sure that every federal agency is focused fully, removing red tape, to address this crisis, and then ultimately rebuild the economy again.

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And then, obviously, I have seen some personal examples of his kindness and his caring. When I was shot, I know it was the night of the shooting he came to the hospital with Melania, the first lady, and consoled my wife, and was just wonderful to my family in those tough times.

That's a side of the president a lot of people don't really get to see. And, frankly, I think it's something important for people to know about, because that's the kind of person he really is. It's not what you always see on TV. It's the person behind the scenes and how much he fights for and cares about people that I get to see.

TAPPER: How is your recovery going, Congressman?

SCALISE: It's going really well. I appreciate that.

You know, it's a little over three years after the shooting. I had nine surgeries. And the miracles of modern medicine, a lot of miracles that happened along the way, but I still do physical therapy about two days a week to build back strength in my left leg, where the bulk of the nerve damage still is.

So working to get better. I finally dropped the crutches at the end of this year -- last year.

TAPPER: Oh, wow, that's great.

SCALISE: So, walking without crutches, and getting better all the time. Appreciate it.

TAPPER: That's great. Congressman. Good to hear that.

Republicans are not adopting a new platform for the 2020 convention, instead relying on the 2016 platform, and as well as some rather vague language put out by the Trump campaign yesterday.

What do you say to critics who suggest that this is emblematic of the party in the Trump era, that it's really more about President Trump and his personality than it is about what the Republican Party stands for?

SCALISE: Well, any platform really does reflect the things, the points that the candidate wants to make in any given election.

And so, for President Trump, you saw what he ran on in 2016. And, frankly, he's worked to deliver on so many of those things. And, obviously, there's more we want to do. And he lists that in the platform. It really is focusing on creating jobs, fighting for life, and keeping our communities safe.

Those are all things mentioned in the platform. It's interesting. If you look at the Democrat platform, they mentioned Donald Trump more than they mentioned jobs or more than they mentioned racial equality.

So I think that negative focus on the Democrat platform really shows that they're not fighting for people. They just don't like the president, but the president is -- has been fighting and delivering for those forgotten men and women.

And I think they're going to be there for him in November, which is why I think he's going to get reelected this November.

TAPPER: The -- this is an opportunity for the president.

And we have been told by people associated with the campaign and with the convention that the president plans on delivering an optimistic vision. It really is an opportunity for him to try to win over people who might like some of the things that he's done, but don't like his style.

But, today, when he accepted your party's nomination, he delivered kind of rambling address. He told a number of lies about mail-in voting and about Obama and Biden.

Does that concern you at all? Would you not rather have a president who is disciplined and optimistic, as opposed to one who is kind of rambling and just doing his list of grievances?

SCALISE: Well, first of all, to call that lies is just not accurate.

I have seen voter fraud up close. Look, in Louisiana, we put an election commissioner in jail because he was stealing votes and running fraudulent elections. And we cleaned that office up, by the way.

So, I have seen how it happens.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Yes, but that wasn't by vote by mail.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: -- to this day.

TAPPER: He wasn't doing that--

SCALISE: Well, but if you mail ballots, Jake, to every single person the rolls, any secretary of state will tell you, you will over a 10 percent error rate, because that's millions of ballots, by the way, that will just be out there, because people move around.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: Some people actually are on the rolls illegally. That's why you want to ensure the sanctity of the vote.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Only nine states are doing that, though. Only nine states are mailing ballots to every registered voter.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: That battle is not -- Pelosi is still trying to make that a national law, which would be reckless. It would be a recipe for disaster.

TAPPER: That's not happening this election, though.

SCALISE: Let make sure we fight for the sanctity of the vote.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: Pelosi has tried to make it. It's not happening because we've blocked it.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: But, Congressman, look, there are nine states that do universal mail-in, which is mailing a ballot to everybody who's registered.

Your fellow Congressman Garcia, Republican from a district in California, he was elected in one of these states, in one of these nine states, California, voting out -- sending out vote by mail. He won. Utah has vote by mail. They have had it for years.

I mean, there really just is not evidence that there is widespread fraud. Of course, there's voter fraud. There's there's been voter fraud as long as there's been voting all over the world.

SCALISE: Right.

TAPPER: But there's no evidence that there is widespread voter fraud because of vote by mail.

SCALISE: Well, and I'm glad you acknowledge there is fraud.

What we have fought against -- and President Trump has been vocal about this -- is a national mandate that you have to do that, because some states might be better equipped than others to have more wide- scale voter mail-in.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: There is no national mandate.

(CROSSTALK)

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SCALISE: No, there's not.

But do you not know -- I will send you the bill. Pelosi just tried to do this the last three months. She's literally brought bills to the floor to try to mandate that.

And we blocked it. But that's where they want to go. What we would like to see is, if somebody wants to request a ballot, we will probably in Louisiana have 25 percent of our ballots cast by mail. Want to make sure that system is intact.

You saw the postmaster general testify today that they will be able to handle that volume. They have got enough money to go through the middle of next year, if we don't give them another dime. So they're going to be able to handle that volume, and if some other states do it more widespread, as long as they can make sure that those votes are counted that are legal votes.

You don't want votes that are illegal coming in.

TAPPER: How do you vote, Congressman?

SCALISE: I have typically voted in-person.

We had an election in New Orleans about a week-and-a-half ago, and I voted in-person. Every now and then, I vote by mail if I'm going to be out of town. But, usually, I like going. I like bringing my family. It's something we all do as a family, because it's a great part of democracy to walk in there and vote -- cast your vote in person.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: My only point is, you have voted by mail, just like President Trump, just like Vice President Pence, just like Kayleigh McEnany.

SCALISE: Right. And that ought to be there for every voter who requests it. It

shouldn't -- you shouldn't mail a ballot to every single person that's not even legally on a roll. Right now, you have got -- again, with people moving around -- most secretary of states will tell you over 10 percent of their voting rolls are people that are not living at that address anymore.

And yet ballots will be sitting out there, millions of ballot.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: Why don't we make sure we protect the sanctity of the vote?

TAPPER: Right. Of course, we all believe in the sanctity of the ballot.

But my point is that they have been doing this in Utah for -- with no problems for years, I think since 2012 or 2013.

SCALISE: Right. And that's Utah's prerogative.

It shouldn't be a federal mandate, though, Jake. And believe me--

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: But that's a separate debate, though, sir. That's a separate debate. You're talking about--

SCALISE: Well, we've had the debate. And the president's been engaged in that debate, saying that we shouldn't mandate that federally.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: President Trump is saying that -- he has literally said today that if the Democrats win, it's because was rigged and the election was stolen, an incredibly irresponsible thing to say.

The secretaries of state in two of the states that have universal vote by mail, Washington state and Oregon, are Republicans. California had vote by mail. Your colleague Congressman Garcia was elected that way. Nevada, the secretary of state is a Republican. Utah, they have vote by mail.

My only point is, I understand you don't like the idea of universal vote by mail as Nancy Pelosi is proposing it. But I'm just talking about the existing policies, and that President Trump is saying that they are going to be corrupt inherently.

And there's no evidence of that.

SCALISE: Well, and I didn't see the president's speech today.

But what I have heard him talk about in the past is making sure that, if somebody is voting, whether it's in-person or by mail, that you're protecting the sanctity of that voting. Picture I.D. is something that we require in Louisiana. A lot of states have that too. Pelosi's bill, by the way, would have taken that away, the

verification of the I.D. So let's make sure, if somebody wants to request a ballot, they have that right and we're going to protect it. And, by the way, the post office assured that that will be prioritized.

They have got all the money they need to carry that out properly. I think that was one of the things that was at issue over the weekend, where some people were trying to make an issue where it didn't exist.

Those ballots are ready to go. If somebody wants to mail in their vote, or if they want to go in-person, I would hope that would be available to them as well.

TAPPER: Minority Whip Steve Scalise, Republican of Louisiana, always good to see you, sir.

And it's great news about your recovery. Keep it up.

SCALISE: Thanks so much, Jake. Great to be back with you.

TAPPER: Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley is also speaking this evening, as the Republican National Convention kicks off, along with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, Donald Trump Jr. and more.

Our special live coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern here on CNN.

And coming up, it may be the world's first known case of a coronavirus reinfection -- what scientists are learning about the patient known to be infected twice with the virus.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: Postmaster general being asked questions right now of Congresswoman Katie Porter of California. Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): You don't know the cost to mail a postcard?

DEJOY: I don't.

PORTER: What if I want a mail a -- you said 55 cents for a first- class stamp. But what if it's like one of those greeting cards, it's a square envelope? Then what is the postage?

DEJOY: I will submit that I know very little about postage stamps.

PORTER: What is the weight limit -- you are more in the shipping logistics business. What's the weight limit for priority mail?

DEJOY: Seventy pounds. PORTER: And what is the starting rate for U.S. post office -- USPS

priority mail?

DEJOY: The starting rate for what?

PORTER: USPS priority mail.

DEJOY: Starting weight, 14 ounces.

PORTER: No, the rate, the price.

DEJOY: I don't know. I don't know.

PORTER: Do you know about -- within a million or so, can you tell me how many people voted by mail in the last presidential election?

DEJOY: No, I cannot.

PORTER: To the nearest 10 million?

DEJOY: I would be--

PORTER: Is that a no, Mr. DeJoy?

DEJOY: I would be guessing, and I don't want to guess.

PORTER: OK.

So, Mr. DeJoy, I'm concerned -- I'm glad the price of a stamp. But I'm concerned about your understanding of this agency. And I'm particularly concerned about it because you started taking very decisive action when you became postmaster general.

You started directing the unplugging and destroying of machines, changing of employee procedures, and locking of collection boxes.

As a professor, I have always told my students that one of the most important rules in life is to read the instructions. Did you actually read and independently analyze the major overhaul plans before you ordered them to take effect?

DEJOY: Again, I will repeat that I did not order major overhaul plans.

The items you identify were not directed by me. I did -- and we don't need much analysis to get -- to run your trucks to a schedule.

(CROSSTALK)

DEJOY: Reclaiming my time, Mr. DeJoy.

Could you please tell me who did order these changes, if you, as postmaster general, did not, because these changes have resulted in -- and you have said yourself in this hearing--

DEJOY: The Postal Service has been around for 250 years. There were plans. There were many, many executives, almost 30,000 executives within the organization.

PORTER: Reclaiming my time.

(CROSSTALK)

DEJOY: And there are plans that existed prior to my arrival that were continued -- that were implemented.

PORTER: Mr. DeJoy, if you did not order these actions to be taken, please tell the committee the name of who did.

DEJOY: I do not know.

PORTER: Mr. DeJoy, did you analyze these plans before they went into effect? You, as postmaster general, supervise whoever did apparently direct--

(CROSSTALK)

DEJOY: As I have stated numerous times, the plans were in effect and being implemented before I arrived.

PORTER: But, Mr. DeJoy, do you take responsibility for these changes?

DEJOY: I take responsibility from the day I sat in a seat for any service deterioration that has occurred.

PORTER: Mr. DeJoy, will--

DEJOY: You're asking about operational -- you're asking about operational changes that go on throughout the whole organization around -- around the country.

(CROSSTALK)

PORTER: Mr. DeJoy, I'm reclaiming my time, sir.

Mr. DeJoy, will you commit to reversing these changes?

DEJOY: No.

PORTER: Mr. DeJoy, will you commit to -- if the independent -- I want to switch to conflicts of interest quickly.

Will you commit that, if the inspector general finds that you committed misconduct with regard to your financial interests in any other way company, such XPO Logistics or Amazon, will you commit -- if the inspector general finds that you committed misconduct, will you commit to them resigning?

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DEJOY: I don't believe they will find misconduct. But I don't see why I would commit here right now to resigning for any reason.

PORTER: You don't think there's any reason that you should ever resign?

DEJOY: No reason that I have heard here today.

PORTER: OK.

Mr. DeJoy, do you today -- because this has been -- you have gone back and forth a bit. I want to ask one final question.

Do you own any financial interests, whether options or stocks, covered calls, bought or sold, do you own today any financial interest in Amazon?

DEJOY: I do not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gentlelady's time has expired. The gentleman may answer the question in more detail if he wishes.

The chair now recognizes--

TAPPER: All right, we're going to continue to monitor the hearing with the postmaster general, but let's go to the health lead right now.

It may be the first case of someone getting infected with coronavirus twice. A man in Hong Kong reportedly had two separate cases of the virus 142 days apart, according to preliminary research from China.

And while the first time the 33-year-old patient showed some typical symptoms of the virus, a cough, sore, throat, a fever, he was asymptomatic the second time.

Joining me now to discuss, Dr. Jeanne Marrazzo. She's director of the Division of Infectious Disease at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Dr. Marrazzo, great to see you, as always.

How concerned should people be about the possibility that there's this threat you can contract COVID-19 twice?

DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: Yes, good to see, Jake.

I do think this is concerning. We hope that this is going to be the exception that proves the rule. In other words, hopefully, this is not something we're going to see very often. But there are a couple of really interesting points about this case.

First of all, as you mentioned, the second time that the patient presented, the finding was picked up incidentally when he came back to the Hong Kong airport, and he had absolutely no symptoms, which suggests that maybe if people are going to get reinfected, that second -- quote, unquote -- "case" might be milder, and indeed might be asymptomatic.

The second thing that we don't know about this patient, which I really wish we knew, is, we don't know whether he made antibody to the virus the first time he had the infection, because they didn't routinely check antibody then. He did make antibody after the second episode.

So, the question is, did he not make any of it, or did he not make the right kind? So lots of questions to ask, but I think it's a cautionary tale and we really need to pay attention.

TAPPER: I want to get your view on the FDA issuing this emergency use authorization for convalescent plasma to treat COVID-19 patients in the hospital.

First of all, in theory, how would plasma help treat coronavirus patients?

MARRAZZO: So, when you collect convalescent plasma, you're taking plasma or serum -- basically the same idea -- from a person who was previously infected and had the opportunity, say, three or four weeks later to have generated enough antibodies specific to that virus.

You're taking their plasma out. It contains a mix of antibodies, including, hopefully, the antibodies to the coronavirus. And then you're giving that plasma to someone who is acutely ill with coronavirus in an effort to help their immune system fight off the active infection.

That is theoretically how it works. But the challenge is, as was just evidenced in that case that we just talked about, the young man in Hong Kong, we don't know that everybody who gets infected makes enough of or the right kind of the antibody that is going to be best targeted to treat this infection.

So it's a bit of a black box.

TAPPER: So, my understanding, according to a knowledgeable source, is that Dr. Collins, Dr. Francis Collins of NIH, as well as other experts in the government, like Dr. Fauci, expressed concerns over the emergency use authorization.

They didn't think there was enough data there. There's this one study from Mayo, but they don't think the data there is sufficient there. There are two other studies going on right now that they wanted to get more information from.

And yet, under clear and obvious and open political pressure from President Trump, the FDA did approve emergency use authorization. I know there are a lot of people in the medical community who are really upset about this, who think that the FDA is buckling to political pressure. They obviously deny it.

What do you think?

MARRAZZO: So, I agree with most other experts and also with the Infectious Disease Society of America that has made a statement saying that we need more properly conducted randomized control trials.

So, let me just say a couple of things about the paper that the decision that the FDA made was based on. It's a very large study, over 35,000 people at many, many different sites.