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The Lead with Jake Tapper

President Trump Trying to Rush Coronavirus Vaccine?; RNC Formally Nominates Trump for Second Term; Biden Campaign Says Harris Will Highlight Trump's "Failed Leadership" in Speech This Week; Video Shows Kenosha, WI Police Shooting Jacob Blake Multiple Times in Back. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Trump this afternoon, in a surprise appearance at the Republican National Convention, even bragged that there will be a vaccine sooner than what might have happened under a traditional administration, perhaps a reference to an administration where politics does not drive the science.

Critics in the medical community contend that that's exactly what's happening, and it could lead to dangerous consequences, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the eve of the Republican Convention, President Trump announced the FDA will grant emergency approval to use blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank the FDA.

COLLINS: Trump and his aides pressured the agency to move faster on granting the approval, claiming deep state officials were deliberately delaying progress for political reasons.

TRUMP: I think that there were people in the FDA and actually in your larger department that can see things being held up and wouldn't mind so much. It's my opinion, a very strong opinion.

COLLINS: The emergency approval was held up by concerns among top government scientists, who wanted more data before signing off, though two of Trump's aides claimed they were slow-walking the approval.

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: If they don't see the light, they need to feel the heat.

PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: And convalescent plasma, I mean, that's like going after Bambi. COLLINS: The FDA commissioner didn't address Trump's attacks, but

praised him, before later saying in a statement that the decision was made based on data and not politics.

DR. STEPHEN HAHN, COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: Thank you, Mr. President, for your leadership.

COLLINS: The announcement comes as CNN is also reporting that, last month, White House officials raised the possibility of granting a similar emergency authorization to use a vaccine before phase three trials are completed, raising concerns that politics is being put ahead of science.

TRUMP: What they're doing is using COVID to steal an election.

COLLINS: The president is looking for good news as he heads into his convention, week after it was revealed that his niece secretly recorded his older sister described him as a liar with no principles.

MARYANNE TRUMP BARRY, SISTER OF DONALD TRUMP: This goddamn tweet and the lying, oh, my God. I'm talking too freely, but you know. It is the change of stories, the lack of preparation, the lying, the holy shit.

COLLINS: President Trump is hoping to rewrite that narrative at this week's convention.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: Ours is going to be very uplifting, optimistic, forward-looking convention.

COLLINS: Kellyanne Conway's speech at the convention will be one of her last as a White House employee. She told the president Sunday night she will step down from her role at the end of the month to focus on her family, as her husband, the conservative attorney George Conway, will also pull back from his role in the anti-Trump group The Lincoln Project.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And, Jake, that's not the only drama that's around the president.

The New York attorney general also made some developments about their investigation into the Trump Organization and whether they inflated the number of their assets in order to get loan approval.

Today, the New York state attorney general said they want to be able to speak to Eric Trump under oath and also get more documents from the Trump Organization after they said that Eric Trump abruptly canceled a scheduled interview with their office last month and also said recently they heard from the Trump Organization that they did not want to provide further documents to them.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss, Dr. Paul Offit. He's director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He also serves on the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee.

Dr. Offit, thanks for joining us. So you said that you were seeing bullying at the highest levels of the FDA, which Commissioner Stephen Hahn denies. Hahn says that he took an oath more than 30 years ago to do no harm as a physician, he lives by that motto every day.

And yet we heard this from the White House chief of staff specifically talking about the FDA. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADOWS: If they don't see the light, they need to feel the heat, because the American people are suffering. This president knows it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So you don't believe -- Dr. Offit, you think he was feeling the heat and he made his judgment accordingly?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: I think we have two pieces of evidence for that.

First was hydroxychloroquine, a drug which -- an anti-malarial drug that had never been shown to work for COVID-19, that were -- I think that the administration, looking for some quick, fast cure for all this, pushed the FDA to approve a drug for the treatment of this disease for which we had no evidence.

And now we know, not only did it not work to treat the disease, not only did it not work to prevent the disease, but 10 percent of people who took it had heart arrhythmias, which can be fatal, and eventually the FDA backed off and removed that approval.

Now we have round two. We have had evidence that, at least according to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins, who's head of the NIH, was not adequate enough to show that the plasma therapy worked in a clear way for people who had COVID-19. Now, although I think it probably does have some efficacy, we don't have data showing that it has efficacy.

[16:05:03]

And so the FDA's job is to make sure that they would not approve a product until it's been shown to be safe and effective. And this had not clearly been shown to be effective. And everybody agreed to that a few days ago.

Nonetheless, last night, there was a change of heart by the FDA without any new data. So, one can only conclude that there had to be some pressure on the FDA to do that. And looking at Donald Trump's tweets, you can only conclude that.

And it is worrisome, especially as we move to the notion of a vaccine. We can't do that anymore. It's just -- there's too much at stake with a vaccine.

TAPPER: So I want to get to the vaccine in a second, but, on the subject of hydroxychloroquine, obviously, that can do harm to an individual.

So I understand what you're saying there. Is there -- what is the risk of approving the blood plasma treatment? I understand that it's not following scientific protocol, but I guess what's the worst thing that happens?

OFFIT: What, I think it's a generally safe product, although you should know and we all know that once -- that any medical product that has a positive effect can have a negative effect. You are giving a lot of foreign protein to somebody who gets this plasma.

And so you can always be surprised unpleasantly about what the side effects can be once you put it into a lot of people. I don't think that's really going to be the issue, a safety issue. It's more of an issue of, we have another example of, absent clear scientific evidence that something works, that the FDA is being pushed to approve it.

And that's what worries me, actually, more than anything else. I don't think it was going to increase or decrease the use of plasma therapy here. It just worries me that it sets yet another precedent to make you worried about the fact that the administration is willing to bully its science-based agencies.

TAPPER: So now let's talk about a vaccine, because I know that that is a big concern among many experts, many medical experts.

Sources tell CNN that White House officials raised the possibility of a vaccine emergency use authorization that would take place before phase three trials of the vaccine were completed, so, again, completely in violation of scientific protocol.

I have heard this discussed as a way to help the president's reelection chances, and that's why people are pushing for it. Are you worried that President Trump is going to push a vaccine on the public before it is thoroughly ready and vetted and according to scientific protocols, as a political gambit to win the election?

OFFIT: Yes.

I mean, I'm on this NIH group that was put together by Francis Collins, and we recommended that the trial be a 30,000-person trial, roughly, say, 20,000 people get vaccine, 10,000 get placebo.

The reason for that is, you want to have an excellent safety portfolio. The strategies that are being used to make these vaccines, whether it's messenger RNA, the replication of effective simian or human adenoviruses that you have read about, are new strategies. There's no experience with those vaccines.

Those strategies have never been used to make a commercial product that's ever been used in this country. So you want to have an excellent safety profile, and make sure that you have data on people who are elderly, people who have various medical comorbidities, African-Americans, Latinx communities, so that you can then go to those groups and say, look, we have excellent safety data here. And you want robust, statistically solid efficacy data. If we don't have that, and we bring a vaccine out too early, I think we could scare an already skittish American public. And there's only two ways out of this pandemic. One is hygienic measures, masks, social distancing, contact tracing, testing. We haven't been very good at that.

The second is the vaccine. We can't mess this up. We can't scare people by putting a vaccine which hasn't been adequately tested out there, because this, frankly, is our most important way out of this pandemic. And I worry about this administration, which hasn't been attentive to good science.

TAPPER: Do you think it potentially could cost human lives if the vaccine is released early, either because it hurts some people because it hasn't been thoroughly vetted scientifically, or because it's such a disaster, that it then creates an insecurity and an unsureness by the public and they're reluctant to take the vaccine when it is ready?

OFFIT: For both reasons.

I think, when you do a phase one trial, you're testing 20 to 100 people. When you do a phase two trial, you're testing hundreds of people, we do a phase three trial, you're testing tens of thousands of people.

Each time, you're reducing uncertainty. You're not eliminating uncertainty. You're reducing uncertainty so that, when you put it into 20 million people, 100 million people, you have at least done a very good job at reducing as much uncertainty as you can, because you don't want to have to get lucky.

And I think what happens, if you're asking to say, test it in only, say, 5,000 people, 8,000 people, have a sort of substandard safety portfolio, you're asking to be lucky. And I don't think we should put the American people in that position.

Remember, most people who get this vaccine are going to be healthy young people. They're not the ones who are most likely to die from this virus. So, you have to make sure that you have an adequate safety profile, especially with vaccines with which we have no commercial experience.

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TAPPER: And, very briefly, sir, you don't have any confidence that Dr. Stephen Hahn, head of the FDA, would stop that from happening?

OFFIT: He -- Dr. Hahn wrote an op-ed piece in "The Washington Post." He wrote a viewpoint piece in "The Journal the American Medical Association" where he promised that he would hold this vaccine to a high standard of safety and efficacy.

He promised he would put it in front of the FDA's Vaccine Advisory Committee. I'm choosing to believe that, when he said that, he meant it. TAPPER: All right, Dr. Paul Offit, thank you so much. Really

appreciate it.

Coming up: what scientists are learning about the first documented case of a person who seems to have gotten coronavirus twice.

Plus: President Trump's brief 52-minute remarks as the Republican National Convention kicked off, his wide range of rambling lies and mistruths that show that we are definitely in for a wild ride before Election Day.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today, the Republican National Convention has officially renominated President Donald Trump. And in a surprise appearance at the convention site in North Carolina this afternoon, the president delivered a rambling speech filled with misleading and false claims about voter fraud and Democrats and a suggestion possibly joking that he could serve for the next 12 years.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is live outside the Republican National Convention location in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Ryan, is this what the convention's going to be like, or will there be more of an effort to temper some of the president's more, shall we say, troubling impulses?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, you know, this convention now only just a few hours old, and if we've learned anything from what we've seen already today, that this is Donald Trump's convention, and everything that we see from here on out is going to be something that comes directly from him. He is going to drive the messaging. He is going to drive the story of this convention, and that was on full display this afternoon and this morning.

Now, you know, it's important to point out that the president's aides said leading up to this convention that it was going to be very different from the Democratic Convention. They accused the Democrats of putting on a convention that was filled with doom and bloom and talking about all the bad things going on in the country and that this convention was going to be filled with hope and optimism.

Well, the president showed none of that today during this 52-minute speech where he complained about a wide variety of things of accusations that President Obama and his administration were spying on his campaign, talking about the potential of voter fraud, complaining about a wide range of things and talked very little about the hope and optimism that he would bring over the next four years.

And the other thing we should point out is that while his campaign will attempt to spend each day with a frame for each event, they're going to talk about certain issues that they want to highlight, ultimately, all of these speakers have one of two things in common. They're either related to President Trump, meaning that his wife or his children or they are a group that have pledged their undying loyalty to Donald Trump as president of the United States.

Just take a look at the speaker list today. Rick Scott from South Carolina, the senator from there is going to be one of the speakers. Nikki Haley, his former U.N. ambassador, Ronna McDaniel, who is the current Republican chairperson. You also have Congressman Steve Scalise. His son Donald Trump Jr., who we talked about, and two of the president's most ardent supporters in the House of Representatives, Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan.

These are all individuals who, above all, support Donald Trump. So, as the president tries to make the case about building back the economy, building on the accomplishments that he's had over the past four years, one thing is clear about this convention, Jake, and that it is all about Donald Trump, and you're either with him or you're against him -- Jake.

TAPPER: I mean, I would -- I would say that South Carolina Senator Tim Scott has been willing on occasion to break with President Trump. But I take your point, Ryan Nobles.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

The Biden campaign planning to counter Republicans at every step this week not only by lining up live events with top Democrats such as Speaker Pelosi, but also planning for Senator Kamala Harris, the party's vice presidential nominee, to deliver another attack on President Trump and his administration.

CNN's Jessica Dean joins me now live.

And, Jessica, this attempt at counterprogramming the RNC, it started I guess with the first joint interview with Biden and Harris.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We saw Biden and Harris in their first joint interview last night. Jake, they covered a host of issues.

One thing that former Vice President Biden was asked very directly about were these attacks by President Trump and his campaign on his mental fitness. And Biden giving a response we've heard multiple times from him when it's heard to that question, which is just "watch me". He asked the person meme to watch him, judge for themselves how physically fit, how mentally fit he is. He said that is a question that is suitable for anyone over the age of 70 in his eyes, but he says he's up for the challenge and told people again watch him.

So, as you mentioned, we're going to see more from the DNC and the Biden campaign really working hand in hand this week. We're going to see ads in battleground states and nationally on cable from the DNC attacking President Trump and laying out their version of what has happened over the last four years and what they consider to be his lack of leadership. We're also going to see these events with big keynote speakers from the Democratic Party.

And then again we are expecting to hear, we've been told, Kamala Harris to make a strong case against Donald Trump. But, Jake, it's unclear right now if that's a bigger event. She had a virtual event that was smaller today with a very particular group of people. Would this be a bigger event? That remains to be seen.

TAPPER: Jessica, the Biden campaign says the former vice president has not been tested for coronavirus, though people who come in contact with him are tested.

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I have two questions for you. First, have they explained why he hasn't gotten a test? And, second, they seem to be handling the question in an odd way, kind of bristling when asked about it. What's going on with that?

DEAN: Right. So, OK, let's go to your first question first on why he hasn't been tested. They said he hasn't shown any symptoms. They have said that at one point he said he didn't want to take a test from somebody who might need it since there were limited tests at that time.

We heard from his deputy campaign manager, Kate Bedingfield, yesterday. Listen to what she had to say to that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BEDINGFIELD, DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER, BIDEN CAMPAIGN: We have put in place incredibly strict protocols to ensure that everybody involved who is around Vice President Biden, who is around Senator Harris is undergoing the appropriate testing. The vice president has not had the virus.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Has he been tested?

BEDINGFIELD: He has not. He has not been tested.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, again, Jake, to answer the back part of your question there about them kind of bristling at this line of question, they really have. They said, you know, he has not been tested, there are no plans at this moment for him to be tested. But then go back to these strict protocols that they have put in place for anyone that comes in contact with him. So, that has -- that has been the line that we have heard from them time and time again and what they continue to say.

TAPPER: All right. Jessica Dean, thanks so much.

The Republican National Convention kicks off this evening. You can hear from former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, Donald Trump Jr. and much more. Our special live coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern here on CNN. Coming up next, a truly disturbing case out of Wisconsin. A black man,

father of three, shot in the back at close range in front of his three children. He was unarmed. What police are saying about the officers involved. Plus, those calling this case a result of systemic racism.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:33]

TAPPER: In our national lead today, a 29-year-old black man is currently fighting for his life. And two white police officers are on administrative leave after disturbing video last night showed Jacob Blake unarmed being shot by police at least seven times in the back while his three children watched nearby.

Now, as CNN's Polo Sandoval reports, state authorities are investigating what exactly happened in the city of Kenosha, Wisconsin, is cleaning up after overnight protests that led to broken windows and torched vehicles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNSHOTS FIRING)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With those gunshots, this Wisconsin father became another black man in America shot by police. Witnesses report that Jacob Blake was attempting to break up a fight Sunday evening between two women before Kenosha police arrived.

RAYSEAN WHITE, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: I looked out the window. I'd seen this black man get out the truck.

SANDOVAL: Raysean White (ph) requested we not show his face on camera as the man who took the cell phone video depicting what happens next. Guns drawn, two officers to coral Blake to the driver side of an SUV when he opens the door and attempts to get inside. Almost immediately, the shots are fired.

(GUNSHOTS FIRING)

SANDOVAL: The family's attorney says Blake's 3, 5, and 8-year-old children were inside the car at the time.

WHITE: I was very angry at that moment. I had so many mixed emotions I didn't even know how to feel and it didn't even happen to me. I'm just witnessing it and recording it. I was so angry.

SANDOVAL: Who called police and why they were there remains unclear, as does what prompted officers to shoot. The Kenosha police say they were responding to a domestic dispute.

In a statement to CNN, the Kenosha Professional Police Association says, as always, the video currently circulating does not capture all the intricacies of a highly dynamic incident. We ask that you withhold from passing judgment until all the facts are known and released.

The local authorities took swift action in the wake of the shooting, handing the investigation over to the state's Department of Justice. The two police officers are now on leave. Tonight, a curfew goes into effect in Kenosha as the community prepares for the possibility of more protests on the heels of the demonstrations Sunday night that targeted businesses and local government buildings.

This is not the first time Kenosha has dealt with questions surrounding its officers' use of force. Five years ago, officers respondent to a call with an outstanding warrant. The incident ended with the suspect being fatally shot by police. The district attorney concluded that the use of force was necessary to stop the threat.

For white and the other black members of the community, this is personal.

WHITE: It could have been me too. I stood right here. It could have been me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: As for Jacob Blake's condition, a family spokesperson telling CNN that he remains in the ICU at this hour still in serious condition. Many of those who have been rallying behind his family, they've actually still protesting on the streets at this hour, Jake, peacefully protesting. They have until 8:00 tonight. That's when the city of Kenosha says that they will be putting an emergency curfew back in place, like they did last night. The goal here is to try to keep that widespread damage from happening again.

TAPPER: Polo, how long will it take for this investigation to wrap up?

SANDOVAL: Recall that the Kenosha Police Department almost immediately after the shooting, they took a step back, they handed that investigation over to state authorities, in this case Wisconsin's Department of Justice. They suggested that it could be another 30 days before they can conclude this investigation. So that could be up to a month before many of the people on these streets and, of course, Mr. Blake's family have some of those answers that we've been looking for, for almost 24 hours now.

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