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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Postmaster General Testifies Before Congress; President Trump Trying to Rush Coronavirus Vaccine?; Wisconsin Police Shooting. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired August 24, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:01]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, that could be up to a month before many of the people on these streets and, of course, Mr. Blake's family have some of those answers that they have been looking for, for almost 24 hours now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN senior legal analyst Laura Coates.

And, Laura, the Wisconsin Department of Justice is now leading the investigation. What should we expect to hear from them?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they're going to have a period of time when they're going to figure out all of the relevant players, any witnesses who may be there for an officer-involved shooting (AUDIO GAP) any conflicts of interest or potential for people to say, hold on, you don't want the fox guarding the henhouse.

So you're going to have a combination of investigatory techniques that are going to be used to try to understand what happened, which officer shot. Was it both of the officers who dispatched their guns? Was it just one? What was the reason, all the information you're going to have?

And then they're going to hand it over to the prosecutor's office, Jake, to figure out if any charges should be filed, whether there are any defenses that could be raised that could undermine any claims against the officers. And it may even go into the civil context as well involving a lawsuit, of course, against the city or the state of Wisconsin.

TAPPER: Laura, Jacob Blake's family has retained civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump. He was the same lawyer for George Floyd's family.

Crump said in a tweet that Blake was leaving the scene after -- quote -- "breaking up a fight between two women." If the Wisconsin Department of Justice can corroborate this, we see on the tape that Jacob is walking to his car. He doesn't have any weapons that we can see. He's not confronting the officers.

He's trying to leave. The officers run up to him and apparently shoot him in the back. I guess, why would it take a month to investigate this?

COATES: Well, the reason you're even stumbling or even trying to ascertain it here, Jake, is because the absurdity of a person who was trying to act, from all accounts that we presently know, as a good samaritan, with three young children, his own sons, I believe, in the car, walking back to the driver's side and having seven shots ring out, no one can comprehend what would possibly be the motivation behind that.

But even knowing that they -- these are the facts as we know them today, there still has to be a thorough investigation on behalf of the officers and the families. And the reason for that is because you want to preserve whatever evidence. You want to make sure it's not going to be a blue wall of silence.

You're going to have to contend with the unions, who are very powerful force in being able to undermine the expediency of investigations. And, ultimately, you're going to have this rest with the prosecutor to say, I had everything, all the information with no stone left unturned.

Now, should it take 30 days, Jake? It should not take 30 days. However, we are in a state in America and have been for decades upon decades where the idea of crossing every T and dotting every I is often a convenient and sometimes unnecessary excuse to slow down the process.

Now, I'm not sure where we are right now, whether it's about convenience or about hindrance. But if it's in line with trying to make sure they have every relevant witness statement that they have all the information they need, then the timing that it will take should be faster, but it could be as long as 30 days.

I believe the 30 days is more of a ceiling, and not a floor, however.

TAPPER: All right, Laura Coates, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

We just got a court ruling in on Florida's efforts to force schools in that state to reopen -- the judge's decision in that case next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:07]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you now on the return to classrooms in the state of Florida.

A judge just sided with the state's largest teachers union. Teachers were challenging Governor DeSantis' order for all school districts to reopen for in-person learning by the end of this month. This means that the government cannot force schools to reopen until the schools say they are ready.

And on top of that, funding cannot be pulled from any school that does not reopen, at least for now.

Joining me now is CNN's Nick Watt.

And, Nick, this seems to be a big win for Florida teachers, who were very worried.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Jake.

Now, the state was trying to force districts to at least offer five days a week in-person teaching, and now they are told that they cannot do that. Now, the teachers union has reacted, saying that districts' hands will not be tied now as they continue to try and protect students and educators.

Now, meanwhile, there is some optimism around the country, but certainly areas of some pretty deep concern.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (voice-over): There were plenty of motorcycles, but very few masks in Sturgis, South Dakota.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can all kiss my ass. I'm going.

WATT: Now cases are climbing alarmingly in the Dakotas.

Over in Illinois, there's a resurgence after a summer lull and a record death toll in Arkansas Saturday. But, nationwide, for the first time in about a month, the average daily death toll did just drop below 1,000. And in half our states, new infection rates are falling, the Sunbelt slammed in the summer, now easing up.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): You just got to take it step by step, day at a time, but I think that, clearly, if you go back six weeks, to where we were to where we are now, those are positive trends.

[16:40:05]

WATT: The University of Miami Hurricanes will allow 13,000 masked fans in for their season opener in a little over two weeks, but no tailgating.

And no frat house ragers allowed many places, a second Penn State fraternity just suspended, after hosting a large social gathering over the weekend.

Notre Dame, now more than 400 cases since the beginning of August, and after an uptick at the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa just closed every bar in the city, outbreaks on college campuses in at least 19 states.

Meanwhile, the EPA just authorized American Airlines to use a brand- new disinfectant on some flights that could kill this coronavirus on a surface for seven days.

ANDREW WHEELER, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY ADMINISTRATOR: This is, I believe, a major game-changing announcement.

WATT: And the FDA just granted emergency use authorization for a promising, but still largely unproven blood plasma treatment.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: The fundamental questions about this therapy are still unanswered.

WATT: And after criticism over a political pressure, the FDA issued a statement defending its decision, saying it was based on the available scientific evidence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: And, Jake, we have just heard from Minnesota; 27 cases there tied to that motorcycle rally in Sturgis.

And some very interesting news out of Hong Kong, a confirmed case of somebody being infected with COVID-19 twice, a 33-year-old man. He got sick back in the spring, fever, cough, that kind of thing, then tested positive again 142 days later coming back into Hong Kong after a trip around Europe.

Now, the experts are still trying to figure out exactly what this means. It is still one case, but it might be good news. He was sick the first time. He was asymptomatic the second time. So this might suggest that, if you are infected, your body will then the next time you're infected not actually get so sick -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Dr. Peter Hotez. He's the co-director for the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital. He's also the dean of the School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

Dr. Hotez, thanks for joining us.

So, Hong Kong, as you just heard from Nick, it may have the first confirmed case of someone contracting COVID-19 twice. What might that mean for the rest of us?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, we're hoping, Jake, that it's not a common occurrence.

We know from non-human primate studies that when you infect them with the SARS-2 coronavirus that causes COVID-19, they're refractory to reinfection because they develop high levels of neutralizing antibody that prevents you from getting reinfected.

I still think that's probably the case for most individuals. It could be, in this particular person, the level of antibody responses was modest or low. And, therefore, it was low enough -- it was high enough to prevent him from getting sick, but not high enough to prevent him from actually getting the infection.

So we're still studying this virus. And it has a lot of important implications for vaccine development, because we want to have some security that, if we induce high levels of virus-neutralizing antibody, that it's going to be a good vaccine that has durable protection.

I think that will be the case. But there are going to be individuals like this that don't have a really robust response and therefore can still get the infection.

TAPPER: Researchers found that the first time this patient had COVID, he had a strain closer to what was seen in the U.S. or England. The second time, they say he had a strain similar to the one in Switzerland in England.

How many strains are going around the world?

HOTEZ: Well, you have to be careful on the use of strains.

I think the SARS-2 coronaviruses is an RNA virus, and RNA viruses are notorious for being able to undergo mutation. So far, those mutations have not really translated in significant differences in how the virus behaves in a patient or the level of transmissibility, we think.

And I don't think this is going to be a big issue so far for vaccine development. Things may continue to evolve in the coming years, where it will become a problem. So the scientific community is still, fingers crossed, hopeful that variation among -- in this virus in different geographic areas is not going to be a big factor.

TAPPER: I have spoken with a number of health experts, including just in the last hour or so Dr. Marrazzo out of Alabama, Dr. Offit out of Philadelphia, who are concerned about the FDA authorizing the emergency use of convalescent plasma to treat COVID-19, given the fact that so many other experts, such as Dr. Francis Collins at the National Institutes of Health and Dr. Fauci and others, don't think there's enough data.

[16:45:05]

They fear that Dr. Stephen Hahn, who heads the FDA, buckled under political pressure, because Trump wanted to bring good news to the American people. We should point out the Dr. Hahn denies that.

Do you share their concerns?

HOTEZ: Well, part of their concerns.

The part that concerns me is that this is the first time the FDA has issued an emergency use authorization for a biologic. This is a branch of the FDA known as CBER, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research.

And you might say, oh, why do I care about that? The reason I care is that's the same part of the FDA that will -- potentially could issue an emergency use authorization for a vaccine.

And that's where this community of scientists is drawing a line in the sand. We do not want to see in the EUA for a vaccine. We want the vaccines to go through the full approval process in large clinical trials of 30,000 people to confirm that the vaccines both work and are safe.

And so the part that makes us nervous is -- at least in my case -- is that an EUA might be released for a vaccine. I don't think they will. I think the -- our regulatory systems are robust enough. I think the scientific community will draw a line in the sand.

But that's the part that keeps me up sometimes.

TAPPER: A lot of people worried that President Trump will push a vaccine into being available before the stage three clinical trials are completed. A lot of fear about that.

(CROSSTALK)

HOTEZ: Yes, I don't think he has the power to do it. So that's going to be really interesting, but I don't think it'll happen.

TAPPER: Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you so much, as always. Always good to have you on.

Breaking news in our 2020 lead today: The Biden campaign has just announced that Joe Biden and Senator Kamala Harris will now be regularly tested for coronavirus.

CNN's Jessica Dean joins me now live.

And, Jessica, we just spoke minutes ago about the mounting questions about why Joe Biden had not been tested, why they were being all squirrelly, the campaign, about whether or not he's being tested. What changed?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, according to one campaign aid, these are increased new COVID-19 protocols within the campaign.

So, as you mentioned, we now know Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will be regularly tested by the campaign. We're now some, what, 70-ish days away from Election Day. The campaign saying, as they get into this final stretch, they want to increase their protocols.

And that's what they're doing. The campaign also pledging that, if either Harris or Biden are confirmed positive, that they will be telling everyone, they will be reporting that.

But, again, this is the breaking news that, now after months of not being tested, Joe Biden in this final stretch of the campaign and Kamala Harris will be regularly tested for COVID.

TAPPER: All right, Jessica Dean, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, the postmaster general once again forced to try to tamp down President Trump's attacks on voting by mail.

What did he say? That's next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:53:01]

TAPPER: And now for our politics lead.

Postmaster General Louis DeJoy today stood by the vote-by-mail process in congressional testimony. Mail-in voting has been safe and without any major problems for years in the United States.

Yet President Trump today falsely called it the greatest scam in our history, claiming again without evidence that mail-in voting is inherently fraudulent. Again, that's not true.

The president went so far as to say that ballots may only be sent to Democrats and not to Republican households. Again, that's not true. It's deranged. They're false -- it's a false conspiracy theory with no evidence whatsoever.

CNN senior White House correspondent Pamela Brown joins us now.

Pamela, the postmaster general really undermined the president's latest conspiracy theory.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he did.

He was combative. He was defiant during this hearing today. But when it came to the questions about who he talked to in President Trump's world, he said for the first time publicly, Jake, that he wanted to get the word out that the president's constant railing on mail-in voting and the suggestion that the post office couldn't handle the mail-in voting was not helpful.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Did you not tell the Board of Governors this month, in August, that in fact you had had contact with the Trump campaign to ask them to stop their attacks on the Postal Service and voting by mail?

LOUIS DEJOY, U.S. POSTMASTER GENERAL: I have put words around to different people that, please, that this is not helpful to...

CONNOLLY: So, you did have contact with the Trump campaign for a good purpose?

But you did...

DEJOY: I'm trying to think of where -- the Trump -- when you say the Trump campaign, I have not spoken to Trump campaign leadership in that regard.

I have spoken to people that are friends of mine that are associated with the campaign, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: And as we know, Jake, DeJoy had split from the president when it comes to mail-in voting, saying he fully supports it. He thinks that every American should have the opportunity to vote by mail if they so choose.

[16:55:03]

He also said he has never spoken to the president directly about the Postal Service, rather than -- other than a congratulatory meeting.

TAPPER: Pamela, DeJoy says he did not make changes to overtime after he took over in June. Is that accurate?

BROWN: Yes, so DeJoy has this messaging about overtime, saying that the overtime amount hasn't changed since before he took over.

But here's the thing, Jake. In July was when they made the changes and tried to streamline the truck schedule so that the trucks ran on time. And in that memo, it said what could happen and what could not happen, which, in effect, the implication of what could no longer happen meant that overtime would be cut down.

So some of the changes he has made so far that he has put a stop to, that did impact overtime, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

In our national lead today, Louisiana's Cameron Parish just issued a mandatory evacuation order and is urging residents to leave as soon as possible with two tropical storms currently on a path toward the Gulf Coast.

Tropical Storm Marco is in the Gulf now, with Tropical Storm Laura over the Caribbean and gaining strength.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

TAPPER: Join us tonight for CNN's special coverage of the Republican National Convention. It will be the first night of President Trump's rebuttal to the Democrats.

Speaking tonight, Senator Tim Scott, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, and the president's son Donald Trump Jr. A Trump campaign source tells CNN that there will be surprises to come as well.

I will see you later tonight. You can also follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @JakeTapper or tweet the show @THELEADCNN.

Our coverage continues right now with Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

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