Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Hurricane Laura Forces Evacuations; NBA Team Boycotts Playoff Game After Police Shooting. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired August 26, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Obviously, Milwaukee Bucks, Kenosha, Wisconsin, proximity there, of course, cannot be denied. They're looking out for their community. They're looking out for people of color.

The continuation of the shooting of unarmed black men is something that NBA players far and wide have been speaking out about, LeBron James, you name it. People are sick and tired of seeing this. Doc Rivers, coach of the L.A. Clippers, an impassioned talk at his press conference yesterday, Jake.

And so all put together, this is the NBA doing what the NBA does best. And that is speak with one voice for a culture that needs a voice. And I think that is exactly what we're seeing here today.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Do you expect to see other NBA teams follow suit?

BRENNAN: I do.

What I'm seeing -- just some quick reporting that I have been trying to do, Jake, is that there are real conversations here about what every other time team is going to do. As I understand it, the Orlando Magic also -- that was the team that the Milwaukee Bucks were playing -- that the -- I'm seeing the wording saying -- and I'm not -- I have not confirmed this 100 percent -- but that both Orlando and Milwaukee decided not to play.

We need to check on that. But what that would indicate, if true, is that the Orlando Magic decided to join the Milwaukee Bucks. So it wouldn't be that one team was boycotting or forfeiting, that they both did it together.

And I think that is a sign -- and no surprise to me, that's a sign exactly how the NBA would want to do this. I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes right now, Jake, the commissioner, Adam Silver, and others are talking about this, looking at the big picture, looking at the concern from this week in particular about the shooting of unarmed black men in this country and saying, maybe we need to look at this, big picture, and maybe have to make some decisions about more than just this one game.

TAPPER: And this also happens during the Republican National Convention. We're told that Vice President Pence, who is expected to speak this evening accepting his nomination, renomination, as vice president at Fort McHenry, Baltimore, we're told that he was going to talk about the players who kneel during the national anthem and NFL games.

They do that to protest police violence, to protest the kinds of things that we're talking about here. But this is a bigger statement than kneeling before the national anthem, although that's obviously a very significant statement, and has cost Colin Kaepernick his career and more.

This is boycotting a game, a playoff game, no less.

BRENNAN: Exactly.

It is a huge statement, the NBA once again leading the conversation. They did it back on March 11, Jake, when the NBA was the first really big entity to shut down leading into the pandemic and, of course, our national shutdown.

The NBA leads in so many ways. And Doc Rivers I mentioned a few moments ago, the coach of the L.A. Clippers, a longtime great in the NBA, he said it best, I think, in terms of what the feeling is in the NBA. He said, we keep loving this country even though it doesn't love us.

And he talked about the Republican Convention. He brought that up. This is again an NBA coach, head coach, saying, we're hearing this talk about fear at our Republican Convention in our suburbs and all of these things that we have been hearing last few days.

And he brought up the fact that this just doesn't coincide with what they are thinking in the NBA and what we are seeing on the streets, in this case, in Kenosha, very close, of course, to Milwaukee.

So, absolutely, this is linked, politics, sports and the NBA right in the middle of it once again in a very powerful way.

TAPPER: All right, Christine Brennan, thank you so much.

CNN' Sara Sidner is live for us from Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Sara, this is a strong message from the Milwaukee Bucks. This is all happening, of course, because of what's going on where you are. NBA coach Doc Rivers, of course, had strong words about the aftermath, as you heard from Christine Brennan, Republicans, of course, repeating themes of fear at their convention.

Here's Doc Rivers, the coach of the L.A. Clippers. Take a listen.

Looks like we don't have that sound bite ready.

But, in any case, Sara Sidner, tell us about, first of all, where you're standing right now with that destruction behind you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So this was the part of the Department of Corrections here, like a parole office here in Kenosha, burned to the ground. There are other buildings around us that were also burned to the ground.

We should mention this was part of the reaction from the shooting of Jacob Blake, the 29-year-old father who was headed to his car, got into a tussle with police, and then headed around to his car trying to get into his car, and an officer shoots him seven times in the back, leaving him paralyzed from the waist down.

His family has been adamant that the protests that happened in his name be peaceful protest, but that is just not what has happened overnight.

[16:35:03]

There have been several incidents where not only are sort of protesters and police going back and forth, but there have been two people killed and one person very badly injured in a shooting incident. We now know that a 17-year-old young man has been arrested.

That 17-year-old came in from out of town because the Antioch Police Department says that he is an Antioch resident. Where is Antioch? It's about 13 miles from here in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in Illinois.

And so, for whatever reason, he showed up here and ended up, according to police, shooting and killing someone. We have seen two horrific incidents that were captured on camera by people in the crowds by livestreamers, by folks who are just out there protesting, one of which a man is shot in the head, which is extremely disturbing, and another of which someone is shot and then another person is shot in the arm.

And we see someone walking down the street with a huge long gun across his chest, holding his hands up towards police. Police never arrested that man. But now one person is under arrest, a 17-year-old from about 13 miles from here in Antioch -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Sara, the Milwaukee Bucks -- as I'm sure you know, the Milwaukee Bucks are supposed to be playing a playoff game about now. But they have refused to come out of their locker room.

SIDNER: Yes.

TAPPER: They are protesting because of the shooting of Jacob Blake in their home state, Wisconsin, which is, Milwaukee, not far from Kenosha.

SIDNER: Yes, I mean, this is a huge statement in reaction to what happened to Jacob Blake, in reaction to what is happening here in Kenosha.

It is an incredibly big statement for an NBA team. And we're seeing this more and more. We're seeing people wearing the shirts of people who have shot and killed by police, of black people, to be specific, who have been shot and killed by police, whether it is Breonna Taylor or George Floyd.

And now, in this scenario, you have a 29-year-old dad, who, by the way, survived this, and who is fighting in the hospital with many different injuries, but is expected to survive.

But the video itself has stirred so many emotions in people because they are seeing this happen, in their minds, time after time after time, and that it doesn't seem to be letting up, and because there was really a vacuum of information from police.

We did not hear from any investigative authority. We didn't hear from the state police. We didn't hear from the sheriff. We didn't hear from the police here in Kenosha for several days.

And so it left a vacuum of information, a lot of people not understanding, you know, what the circumstances of all of this was, not what happened before Jacob Blake was shot seven times in the back. And so there is a lot of time consternation hear about that as well, although we do understand that the way that the laws work here is that the local police are not allowed to investigate themselves.

That goes to the state Department of Justice. But there really has been a vacuum of information, and filling that void, filling that vacuum with a lot of rumors, a lot of people getting upset about a lot of different things, and certainly people out in the streets demanding not only answers, but justice.

As they see it, this was an absolutely unnecessary and horrific shooting of Jacob Blake. We have not heard what police are saying or we have not heard their side, if you will, of the story. And so there are a lot of folks who are worried that this is going to escalate and escalate and escalate, especially since we are now seeing people coming to town, standing outside of businesses, saying they're only here to protect the businesses.

They are strapped with weapons, some of them wearing some army fatigues. It just is a recipe for an explosion of potential violence. And we saw that happen and unfold last night -- Jake.

TAPPER: Sara Sidner, stay with us.

I want to go back Christine Brennan, our sports analyst.

And, Christine, one of the things that I'm struck by is this year has been marked in so many ways by the NBA. One of the ways that the nation first sat up and realized how serious the coronavirus pandemic was, was after an NBA game was canceled on March 11, I believe.

That was a moment. It was the same day that Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson were diagnosed, it was announced that they were diagnosed of having coronavirus.

And now we have this moment of civil disobedience by the Milwaukee Bucks and possibly others, protesting the shooting of Jacob Blake. It really seems quite remarkable.

BRENNAN: It does, Jake.

And that March 11 date, I think there will be books, many books written on how the NBA basically was the North Star for so many of us, because when the NBA said, we're suspending operations, that -- everything followed. Within a day or two, the dominoes fell and the entire nation was shut down.

[16:40:01]

I also think we're seeing something absolutely extraordinary here -- Sara described it as well -- of athletes -- what do we think of? We think they make -- they're millionaires, that they make so much money. This is -- they play a game. They're lucky in many ways.

And the NBA players, unlike some of their counterparts in other leagues, Jake, they act like they know that, and they act like they get it. And we are seeing something that rarely happens, which is players actively saying, we're not going to play, taking themselves out of the thing they love the most. And, of course, it's the playoffs in the NBA bubble.

We see this with the WNBA with the shirts that they're all wearing. We have seen Black Lives Matter, especially in basketball, with the NBA and then also the WNBA.

And so this is a moment really of sacrifice for these players. They are making lots of money. They will continue to make lots of money, but they're giving up something that we will rarely see a player give up. I'm racking my brain to think of Sandy Koufax not pitching because of religious reasons in a World Series.

You do see these things every now and then. But it's incredibly rare. And more often, we see a selfishness among many people, including athletes. This is not the case here. We are seeing the NBA stand up in a remarkable way that will once again be a part of the narrative of this incredible narrative of 2020.

TAPPER: All right, Christine Brennan, stay with us.

I want to bring in Bob Costas, the legend, sportscaster.

Bob, I have not seen anything like this in my life of an NBA team boycotting as a way of civil disobedience, as a way of protest, the Milwaukee Bucks saying that they're not going to play. I believe that there are other playoff games that are going to take place this evening, but not them.

Put this in some sort of historical perspective for us, if you would.

BOB COSTAS, SPORTS COMMENTATOR: Yes, Jake. I have not seen anything exactly comparable to this.

There have been gestures. I'm old enough to remember -- I was a teenager when Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists at the Mexico City Olympics in 1968. Of course, Muhammad Ali, not in a team sport, gave up three-plus years

of his career. And that was remarkable and remains at the top of the pyramid in this respect.

There have been concerted efforts by athletes at various times, but never anything that is comparable to this. Colin Kaepernick and others kneeling, yes. Black Lives Matter on the court at all the NBA playoff games, yes. The Detroit Lions yesterday not practicing, which was a significant statement.

But, in this case, you're talking about a game, and a playoff game at that. And I don't know if others will follow, but, obviously, it's appropriate -- as Christine mentioned a moment ago, it's appropriate that the Milwaukee Bucks lead the way, because, if you live in Kenosha, Wisconsin, the Milwaukee Bucks are your NBA team.

TAPPER: And, Bob, obviously, sports leagues and the NBA in particular have been a place where players are speaking their minds, standing up for what they believe.

This is obviously a stark example of civil disobedience and protest. Is it hurting the NBA with any fans who don't want politics in their professional athletics?

COSTAS: I think there's no question that it's hurting the NBA in that respect, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong.

And I think that Adam Silver, who, like his predecessor, David Stern, has always been a forward-looking commissioner, he's got something to balance here. But I think his basic sympathies are with the players in this situation.

TAPPER: And, Bob, we're told now, CNN is learning -- and it's a possibility -- it has not been 100 percent confirmed -- that it's possible that all playoff games are going to be canceled this evening.

Does that surprise you? Or is that exactly what you thought might happen, with the Milwaukee Bucks taking the lead?

COSTAS: No, it doesn't surprise me. I guess there's a distinction here, if we're just thinking about it from a basketball standpoint and the ongoing playoffs, a distinction between canceled and postponed. They could make these games off. I don't think it makes any difference.

If they make the games up, the statement has still been made. And then Adam Silver has got to figure out a way to navigate this, so that, yes, we can continue to play after this, but we have made a very, very strong statement by postponing all the games today.

And one of the things I think works in Adam Silver's favor -- and this is not a criticism of the other commissioners. There are different dynamics at work in every sport. But I think it's safe to say that the relationship between the commissioner's office and the players in the NBA is the most healthy and the most cooperative, not that there aren't some disputes and disagreements, but the most healthy of any of the four men's team sports that we follow in North America.

[16:45:00]

TAPPER: We have also seen some protests being permitted at NFL games.

Not so much with Major League Baseball. What is the reason behind that, do you think?

COSTAS: I think there might be multiple reasons.

The NFL is some 70 percent African-American, the predominant number of players in the NBA the same. Baseball has many, many players of color, especially if you consider Hispanic players, who are a very significant part of baseball's playing population, but it is not primarily a sport of players of color.

Does that have something to do with it? You would have to think it does. That doesn't mean that there aren't some very sympathetic players there, sympathetic to this cause. And there were people who knelt during the national anthem at the beginning of the resumption of the baseball season.

But I would think that's the primary reason that you haven't seen it as much in baseball as in football and in basketball.

TAPPER: And I'm old enough to remember, Bob -- I'm not old enough to remember the 1968 Olympics, but I am old enough to remember when Michael Jordan was pressured, guilted for not being more politically active when he was a star player, for not being more outspoken in support of Harvey Gantt, who was running for Senate against a racist incumbent Republican Senator Jesse Helms.

And he said -- and I believe this was recently confirmed -- "Republicans buy sneakers too," although perhaps it's apocryphal.

Either way, it has really been a sea change when it comes to athletes saying their politics.

COSTAS: Yes, a couple of things, just in fairness to Michael Jordan.

He says that he said that in jest on the Bulls team boss after a practice one day, and he has recently committed $100 million of his own money over 10 years to social justice causes. And I don't think that any individual needs to be pressured into doing something that is outside his or her beliefs, or what they're most comfortable with, or that they feel most equipped to do.

TAPPER: Sure.

COSTAS: So, I'm not critical of Michael Jordan for what he didn't do when he was a player, except in that one instance.

And I said this before. I said it 20 years ago. Jesse Helms was a blatant racist. Harvey Gantt wasn't just, although it's significant, an African-American man running against a blatant racist, but that's the key. This wasn't your normal political differences. This was a stark moral question.

And Michael Jordan sat that one out.

TAPPER: Yes, I don't mean to shame Michael Jordan, of whom I'm a tremendous fan.

I just mean that the times have changed.

COSTAS: Yes, very much so.

TAPPER: That's more of what I mean.

COSTAS: Certainly.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, that was the 1980s. And it wasn't as though Dr. J. and Magic Johnson were running around endorsing progressive causes at the time.

Really, very few people were. I mean, Muhammad Ali was the exception. And I'm just saying it's so widespread today. The culture has changed.

COSTAS: Yes, the situation has reached critical mass.

And I know people will get on me or us for saying this, but you cannot have a more stark contrast with this happening during the week of the Republican Convention, and most of those voices there standing not just in sympathy with -- you don't have to agree with everything. You don't have to agree with the rioting. You don't have to agree with every assertion made by every NBA player or every person who's in sympathy with the cause of Black Lives Matter.

There are legitimate disagreements there. But so many of the voices among -- at the Republican National Convention stand in stark opposition and cannot even bring themselves to express basic sympathy with the overall issue, not just to say, oh, yes, there are one-offs and there are exceptions.

No, there's a systemic problem here. And it resonates all the more because it has such historical antecedents. If you can't acknowledge that, no matter what -- where you fall generally speaking on the political spectrum, I think history has long since left you behind.

TAPPER: If you're just joining us, we're following breaking news. The Milwaukee Bucks have announced that they are boycotting their playoff game in the NBA that was supposed to be happening right now.

They're doing this because of the shooting by a white police officer or police officers of Jacob Blake.

We have also just learned that all NBA games tonight are being postponed in the wake of the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

Joining me now to discuss, CNN senior political reporter named Nia- Malika Henderson and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein.

Nia, this is a huge moment. And it's coming just hours before Vice President Pence, who has made an issue, a political issue, of opposing those NFL players, those football players who take a knee during the national anthem so as to protest police brutality and racial inequity.

[16:50:20]

I remember him going to a Colts game and storming out angrily because he didn't like that the Colts, some of them had taken a knee. I believe it was the Colts.

And he was going to, I think, address this, the taking a knee issue, in his speech tonight. And here we have the NBA taking it one huge step forward.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: A huge, huge step forward.

And if you remember, even as there were discussions about the NBA restarting during the -- after canceling mini games because of COVID, there were some discussion among some players about not even wanting to have a season because of what was going on in the country because of this social justice protest movement that sprang up this past summer.

So, in some ways, you find this as an outgrowth of the frustrations that many of these players have had. And you do have this sea change. You talked about this. This isn't the era of Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson anymore. It's more like the era of Muhammad Ali of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, people like LeBron James, very, very active, not caring about the bottom line, not caring about maybe alienating some of those white fans who don't like this kind of thing, necessarily.

But what a huge, huge move for the NBA to send this signal and really put the focus on what needs to be focused on, which is this police brutality problem in this country that has existed for decades and decades and decades, with black people prevailing on white people to pay attention to it, right?

If you go back to Martin Luther King's speech, he talks about police brutality on his March on Washington speech. Nobody really likes to talk about that. They talk about sort of the platitudes, the other more sort of acceptable platitudes from that speech.

So, this is them saying this cannot be ignored, and that white people need to sort of be shaken up to focus on this problem that is making black people all throughout this country fear the police and really upset about the racial inequity in this country.

TAPPER: And, Ron, I think it was 2015. Hillary Clinton was in Missouri, and she was asked, I think it was the first time she'd ever heard the term black lives matter.

And I'm not -- I don't mean to denigrate Secretary Clinton's response, because it really wasn't part of the conversation. But she said, all lives matter as a response. She thought that that was a helpful thing to say. Obviously, it is not perceived as being a helpful thing to say. Flash

forward to 2020, the murder of George Floyd, and you actually have the 2012 Republican nominee, Mitt Romney, marching with Black Lives Matter protesters and saying black lives matter, again, a huge cultural change in the United States of America.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And a cultural change that has moved the center of gravity in the country further away from the Republican coalition.

And I think we see that political backdrop very clearly this last two weeks. I thought, last week, Democrats talking about systemic racism more openly, explicitly and repeatedly than I at least have ever heard before -- and I have been at every convention since 1984.

And this week, you have a Republican Convention that really is focused on portraying the protesters as -- quote -- "a mob" who is coming to get suburban white families in their home.

I did think, however, that we really saw the first crack in the armor from President Trump, because all the effort that went into last night trying to, however implausibly, rewrite his history and say that he is a friend now of immigrants and African-Americans and women, I think was an implicit acknowledgement for the first time that I can remember that his strategy of stirring cultural and racial grievance by itself might not be enough to win, and that he has to convince a certain segment of voters that he is not a racist, not a sexist, not a xenophobe, before they will listen to him on other issues.

I think that was an important concession, in effect, to the change in public attitudes that you're describing.

But I would just say real quickly, 80 percent of Republicans still say police shootings of unarmed African men are isolated incidents, not part of a pattern, even as majority opinion in the country has moved very sharply in the other direction.

So those very different visions are heading toward a collision in November.

TAPPER: I believe there are studies suggesting that, if you're a black man, you are two to three times more likely to be shot than a white man. I would have to check on that. But I believe that's the case.

And, Nia-Malika, let's talk for a second about what the Bucks are doing here, because one of the things that's interesting is, in addition to these horrific police shootings of unarmed black men, there has also been peaceful protest, and there has also been violent protest.

[16:55:05]

And, today, Vice President Biden issued a statement that he tweeted out, his campaign tweeted out, in which he talked about talking with the family of Jacob Blake. He talked about the importance of stopping this problem.

But he also condemned the violence taking place in Kenosha, the destruction of property, the destruction of stores, et cetera, by protesters. We have also heard Jacob Blake's family say similar things.

What's interesting to me is what the Bucks just did refocuses the attention back on Jacob Blake, in a way, and away from the violence by protesters in Kenosha.

HENDERSON: I think that's right, because, today, you heard, I think it was John Kasich, come out and say, listen, the Democrats really need to condemn the violence.

And, by and large, Democrats have condemned the violence. You see Biden doing it. Keisha Lance Bottoms had a very strong statement in Atlanta when there was some violence going on there. So they have been on that side of things.

And I think you're right. The Bucks doing this now says -- takes the focus off that violence and it puts it back on where the protesters, 99 percent of them, 90 percent, whatever figure you want to say, where they want this, which is on this systemic racism that exists in this country, and specifically when it comes to these police departments who oftentimes, when they see a black body, whether it be a man or a woman, they react in a way that they wouldn't react to a white person engaged in similar behavior.

So, I think the Bucks have done something extraordinary. It looks like other teams are doing this. And we will see if this kind of goes into other different segments of the country and other different leagues going forward, but an extraordinary move from the NBA.

And I think this is due to Adam Silver, and also some of these big, big superstars in the league who have just had enough and want to use their platform to move the country forward.

TAPPER: And it's personal to them. They feel like it could happen to them or their loved ones or their sons and their or their friends.

HENDERSON: Yes.

TAPPER: Nia-Malika Henderson, Ron Brownstein, thank you so much.

We are also, of course, following breaking in our national lead.

Some areas of coastal Louisiana already under floodwaters, as Hurricane Laura approaches the Gulf Coast, this as the governor of Louisiana, John Bel Edwards, warns residents of the impending and possible deadly storm surge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN BEL EDWARDS (D-LA): You're going to hear ranges of storm surge that we haven't heard in Louisiana since Hurricane Audrey in 1957. You're going to hear the word unsurvivable to describe the storm surge

that we are expecting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And that's not just bluster. That was the National, I think, Hurricane Center used the word unsurvivable.

And that's not just bluster. That was the National, I think, Hurricane Center used the word unsurvivable.

CNN's Jennifer Gray joins me now from the Weather Center.

I have never -- and maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention -- unsurvivable used so openly as a warning. What more are you learning about this dangerous storm surge?

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I don't remember the last time I have heard that word either.

We hear life-threatening, words like that. But unsurvivable is definitely one that you should take seriously. It's true. This is going to be an event where the storm surge is, by all means, going to be life-threatening.

When you're talking about 20 feet of storm surge. And this part of the Gulf Coast, Louisiana, in particular is extremely vulnerable. It's very low-lying. We could have water all the way up to I-10, easily, 30 miles from the coast.

And so you are talking about total inundation when you hear 20 feet of storm surge. In fact, we already have three and four feet of storm surge on the coast. And this is still 150 miles from the coast.

So, 145 mile-per-hour winds, gusts of 175. This is a dangerous Category 4 storm. And what I fear is, this could strengthen even more. It has time to become a strong Category 4 or even a Category 5 before making landfall.

I would actually not be surprised if that were the case. It is moving to the northwest at 15 miles per hour now. Here's the radar. We have already had some rain bands come onshore. We have had tornado warnings.

Of course, that's always a concern when you have these storms come on shore. So, we are going to be talking about the flooding. But I think the bigger issue with this storm most definitely is going to be the wind, but also that storm surge that we cannot ignore.

Already seeing more than three feet of storm surge in Calcasieu, Sabine Pass, more than two feet Freshwater, more than four feet. And like I mentioned, the storm is still 150 miles from the coast, 15 to 20 feet of storm surge right here in Cameron Parish.

Cameron is already reporting rain. We have already had a rapid water rise along the coast there, Jake. So it is going to be something to watch overnight.

Jennifer Gray, thank you so much.

And if you are currently in the path of the storm and you're watching this, please turn off the TV and get the hell out of there. Get to safety.

Join us tonight for CNN's special coverage of the Republican National Convention.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @THELEADCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you in a few hours.

[17:00:00]