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The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Official: CDC Guidance Changed Because of Testing Backlog. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired August 27, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:05]

VICE ADMIRAL STEVEN POULIN, ATLANTIC AREA COMMANDER, U.S. COAST GUARD (via telephone): As your speaker just said, there is a distinction between what I saw in Texas and what saw in Louisiana. Saw in Louisiana.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And residents were warned that the storm surge would be, quote, unsurvivable. Right now we know of four deaths. Are you worried that number is actually going to turn up to be much higher?

POULIN: Well, the Coast Guard is poised to conduct search and rescue, we were able to flow a number of additional resources in the area prior to the storm. So we stand ready to save lives. That's what we do.

TAPPER: You have served now in the coast guard for decades. How does this storm compare with others that you encountered?

POULIN: Well, this was a historic storm, no doubt about it. But the coast guard is always ready to respond, I'm proud of our coast guard women and men who were down here doing the search and rescue and also helping to survey the waterways and try to get those waterways open as soon as possible.

TAPPER: Will the coronavirus pandemic affect some of your relief efforts? I know some people have been concerned about a lot of people being in close proximity in a shelter, for example.

POULIN: It is certainly a complication, but we're going to save lives, that's what we do. We've got personal protective equipment for our crews. We've got different procedures that we put in place. So we're not going to let COVID slow us down. We're going full speed ahead and ensuring the safety of the folks in these affected communities.

TAPPER: I know you're fitting us in right before you embark on a flyover in just a few minutes over Louisiana. When you do such a thing, what are you looking for primarily?

POULIN: I'm looking primarily to see what the impact is to the waterways. Can I see any visible obstructions? Can I see oil pollution? And, of course, always standing by to see if there are any persons in distress.

The focus of this flight will be to look at the waterways to see what we have to do to reconstitute those.

TAPPER: All right, Vice Admiral Steven Poulin of the U.S. Coast Guard, thank you so much, sir, and thank you for your service, appreciate it.

POULIN: Thank you.

TAPPER: Today, the White House is addressing the confusing new guidance from the CDC, suggesting who should get tested for coronavirus and when. The decision to change apparently came from the, quote, top-down. And now we're learning possibly why. And that story is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:24]

TAPPER: In our health lead today, 180,000 Americans now dead from the coronavirus, it's a grim milestone that no one in this country wanted to see. This tragedy as there is more fallout and outrage surrounding the CDC's guidance, which was abruptly changed to say that some people who show no symptoms probably do not need to be tested, even if they have been in close contact with somebody who is infected.

This means asymptomatic carriers would not get tested, despite still spreading the virus to others.

But as CNN's Erica Hill reports for us now, the White House trying to justify the move today with one official saying the guidance change was necessary because there was a backlog of tests.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tens of thousands of people converging in Sturgis, South Dakota, earlier this month, now at least seven states reporting cases linked to the rally, including North Dakota, which now has the highest per capita rate of new cases in the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you attended the event, we highly encourage you to monitor your symptoms closely, and to get tested.

HILL: Indiana, Iowa, and Kansas also reporting seven day average highs for new cases. Colleges and universities boosting those numbers in more than 30 states, with some 7,600 confirmed cases.

DR. JULIO FRENK, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: We made it very clear, these are the rules. If you cannot comply, please don't come here.

HILL: In New York, campuses where 5 percent of the population tests positive, now required to move classes online for two weeks.

Nationwide, new cases are falling, down 22 percent over the past 14 days. Deaths also declining, though the daily toll is now back above 1,000. Since the pandemic began, just over 180,000 lives lost.

Pushback continues over the CDC's revised testing guidance.

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE CITY HEALTH COMMISSIONER: Without an explanation that is rooted in science, you have to wonder what the real reason is. Maybe the reason is to just why they're not doing enough tests.

HILL: The Association of American Medical Colleges calling the shift irresponsible, some governors labeling the move reckless, vowing not to change their approach.

The vice president's chief of staff offering this explanation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guidance that was updated is because there continue to be backlogs in the system with the testing, particularly for people getting tests for asymptomatic.

HILL: The FDA granting emergency use authorization for a $5 rapid antigen test, results in 15 minutes displayed on an app. Abbott says it could produce 50 million tests a month by October.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:40:03]

HILL: Meantime, there are some updates on the vaccine front. Including one from Moderna, which says its early trials are showing the vaccine is showing an immune response in all ages, that's good news, of course, as we know this can affect older people more severely.

One thing we heard from someone running one of the trials is that they still need more diversity in terms of those enrolled, Jake.

TAPPER: Erica Hill, thank you so much. Good to see you.

Joining us now, CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And, Sanjay, I want to get your response to this, because it's first answer from the White House on why the CDC changed its guidance, this shift that has alarmed so many health officials.

Listen to the vice president's chief of staff Marc Short from earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: The guidance that was updated is because there continue to be backlogs in the system, with the testing, particularly for people getting tests for asymptomatic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, does that not amount to a complete admission of testing failures in August? We are now eight months into this and they're saying, there is such a backlog of tests, we have to not test people who come in direct contact with sick people. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, no, it is a

complete admission that the system is still not working, by saying this backlog is a reasoning for, you know, these new recommendations.

But as it turns out, Jake, we were digging into this today, there really is no backlog. Here is the ironic part. I'm surprised he gave this answer, because it is -- it would suggest there is real problems here, it is the wrong problem. The commercial labs did have these backlogs in July, they're largely keeping up now, OK. What this really suggests is at a time when we're starting to open schools and need to be testing lots of asymptomatic people, that's when they're making this recommendation to basically, you know, it is not necessary they're saying. Public health officials can decide and your local community, but it is not necessary to test asymptomatic people.

Why would they do that if they can -- they have the capacity to test folks, certainly more capacity than are being tested now, why would they do that? Well, the concern is, Jake, they want to hide this problem. There is going to be increase in the spread of infection with opening schools. Kids and faculty need to be tested. I think they're suggesting that not happen.

TAPPER: And that's, of course, the suspicion, that President Trump doesn't like testing, he's already said that, because the number -- it shows failure, shows how many people are infected, so the suspicion is that they leaned on the CDC to reduce it. Explain why so many health officials think that this is irresponsible.

GUPTA: Yeah, and let me say the public health folks that we have talked to are in pretty lockstep on this saying this is irresponsible. It doesn't follow the science. It is not evidence-based.

Pretty simple reasons. You know, first of all, this virus is different, Jake. A lot of viruses, you really don't spread the virus until you're symptomatic, coughing and sneezing, that's when you spread it. We learned back in February, mid-February time frame, that this could spread asymptomatically. I think most people watching probably realize that by now.

But put in these two facts, 40 percent of people, 40 people get infected are symptomatic. A lot of people walking around with the virus, don't know it. 50 percent of the spread now in the country is coming from those asymptomatic people. I hope this makes sense. You can be carrying the virus, not know it and be unintentionally, unwittingly spreading it to family members, community members, whatever, that's why you need to test asymptomatic people.

TAPPER: And what's alarming about this is that if you reduce the testing, then people who are asymptomatic, but are carriers will continue to spread it and that will cost lives. And whether you believe the suspicion this is being done for political reasons, so as to get the numbers lower, or you buy the White House's excuse, which you have pointed out may not be rooted in fact, that this is because of failures to get testing up to speed, either way it's not an acceptable answer from the White House that could cost lives. GUPTA: Yeah, absolutely. Either one of those scenarios points to the

failure of testing. It is hard to believe. At this point, in this pandemic, as long as we have been talking about it, that we are still having these kinds of back-and-forths on testing and I got to say, just over the last 24 hours, talked to so many public health officials, I haven't heard anyone who could justify this decision.

The American Medical Association basically is saying to the White House, justify your decision, the American Association Medical Colleges is saying this is irresponsible. Ashish Jha says it's heartbreaking to see the CDC politicized.

It's happening, Jake. I mean, these are real -- this is a real schism happening between public health officials in the country and these decisions being made at the White House.

TAPPER: The FDA authorizing the emergency use of Abbott's rapid antigen testing that can give results in minutes, it would cost $5, about the size of a credit card, how would this new test work?

GUPTA: Well, this could be a big deal, and in a good way, Jake.

Show you some of the data on this. And we have been following the story along for some time. As you point out, it's a $5 test, very quick, 15 minutes, 97 percent sensitivity. That's really good, Jake.

You know these numbers. That means three out of 100 people will be told that they have a negative test when they don't. That's in people who are who are being tested within seven days of their symptoms starting.

This is the key, no equipment required, right? You don't need to send this to a lab. There's no machine that you have to have. It's just the testing kit. And at the same place you get the test done, you can get a result. And this company, Abbott, big company, they can make 50 million of these tests a month by October.

And I can confirm, Jake, I just spoke to Admiral Giroir about this. They're going to announce that they're going to buy 150 million of these tests for $750 million. And it's within -- by the end of November, they will have that amount of tests that have actually been purchased.

So, pretty big deal. Let me just show you quickly. We have some video. I want to show you this out works, because this is really interesting, Jake. Basically, people are familiar with the swab part of this. People will actually get the testing now, if we can show this video.

And it's a little credit card kit. You got to -- you scan your Q.R. code. That basically -- basically links this kit to the individual. You do the swab, just like people have seen countless times. But here's where it's a little different. Again, everything is self- contained, a little bit of fluid on that paper.

It's called lateral flow technology, allows the fluid to sort of creep across the paper. You buckle it down like that. And within 15 minutes, like a pregnancy test, you're basically told if you are positive or negative, somebody gets an app on their phone, and they are told you got a green. That means you're negative.

And it acts like a little bit of a passport. That's how these tests are going to work. And it looks very promising, Jake, if they can get these numbers up to the point they say they can.

TAPPER: Let's hope so.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you. Always good to see you.

Back to our national lead and the extensive damage from Hurricane Laura. President Trump now says he will visit the Gulf Coast to see the damage himself this Saturday or Sunday. Some are comparing the force of Laura to a tornado sitting over their towns for an entire hour seen.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is in Lake Charles, Louisiana.

Gary, tell us what you're seeing.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, here in Lake Charles, Louisiana, as Hurricane Laura came through, it was so frighteningly intense, I was wondering how any business or home could escape without damage.

And, indeed, as we have toured the city, there are plenty of homes and businesses that have no damage. It's amazing. But others have been devastated, including this one.

This Golden Corral restaurant two days ago, we saw it full of diners. Now it's been devastated. And that's what we have seen with a lot of businesses on this particular street. And we have also seen -- we see this during a lot of hurricanes -- power lines down, power lines up and down the street.

We had to be very careful driving here, obviously, other electrical goods on the ground here. They haven't started the cleanup yet, because the winds are still pretty brisk, but they're hoping to come out soon and start cleaning up the roads. But they have a lot of work to do.

We have seen this in a lot of hurricanes, but these winds got up to 135 miles per hour in this city. And it will take a long time to fix these businesses and fix these homes that are damaged -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Gary Tuchman, thank you so much.

The new evidence today that further proves the pandemic is still taking a very heavy toll on our economy, that's next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:12] TAPPER: We're back with the money lead.

And, sadly, it continues to be bad news. Another million Americans filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week. Since the start of the pandemic, the U.S. has only seen one week with fewer than a million claims. The unemployment rate, which in January, pre-pandemic, stood at 3.6 percent, is now topping 10.2 percent.

Despite those numbers, the U.S. economy has continued to add back jobs that vanished during the peak of the pandemic lockdown in the spring; 1.8 million jobs were added in July; economists predicted a further 1.6 million to be added in August.

Those jobs will not be added by America's first department store, Lord & Taylor, however. The store announced today they are officially going out of business, ending a nearly 200-year legacy.

And it is amid this economic situation and a global pandemic, against the backdrop of a country very ill at ease, tonight, President Trump will deliver a big speech to accept his party nomination for president.

With me now to discuss, CNN political correspondent Abby Phillip and national political reporter for Politico and CNN political analyst Laura Barron-Lopez.

Abby, CNN is reporting that the president plans to talk about what's happening in Kenosha tonight. Obviously, there any number of tacks you could take. What are you expecting?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think we got a sense of it from what Vice President Mike Pence did in his speech last night, where he mentioned Kenosha, but in the context of all of these other American cities that they'd say are on fire and under siege from lawlessness.

So, I don't really expect to hear President Trump say anything profound about the complexities of what's going on in that city right now and about the complexities of the situation that has been unfolding all summer.

But I do think that it will be folded into this broader conversation that he wants to say that there is a stark divide in America. And he's absolutely right about that. And he's going to be drawing a line in the sand about where in this debate he is.

[16:55:04]

And I don't expect to hear him say anything that addresses really the element of racial unrest in this country. But we will see probably more of this -- quote, unquote -- "law and order message."

TAPPER: And, Laura, Anderson Cooper asked Joe Biden earlier today what he made of this attack of what Joe Biden's America will look like. And the vice president, Joe Biden, pointed out, these are all images of Trump's America. I understand why Richard Nixon would do a law and order campaign in

1968. He was running, and the Democratic president was the incumbent. But he's the incumbent. Is there not a certain degree of risk here with this approach?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Potentially.

I mean, Trump is very much fashioning himself, as Abby said, under this lawn order banner, which is similar to Nixon's Southern Strategy in the '60s. But, again, there are key differences, as you laid out, Jake, which are that Trump is the incumbent.

But this is all a part of a larger pattern that Trump has been using throughout his presidency, which is that, when he tweets to -- tweets about the suburbs to his predominantly white base, it's also part of the same pattern where he said that white nationalists in Virginia were very fine people or where he tweeted that predominantly black cities were rat-infested in the past.

So, again, it would be surprising if the president changed any of that rhetoric that has existed over the last four years. And I expect that we will see more of that, especially, as Kellyanne Conway kind of forecasted today in an interview, that they believe, that the campaign believes that the more -- quote -- "anarchy" or violence in cities could potentially be to their political benefit.

TAPPER: And, Abby, President Trump still has not commented on what happened to Jacob Blake, the unarmed black man who was shot seven times in the back in front of his three little boys by a white police officer in Kenosha.

Do you think that's by design?

PHILLIP: I think this is one of the more interesting things this week, because the White House said yesterday, according to our Jim Acosta, that the president had been trying to connect with the Blake family.

And when Jacob Blake's mother spoke to CNN, she indicated that she was willing to speak to President Trump. The question is, why hasn't that conversation happen? And it does make you wonder, considering that they are not totally sure that they want to be seen as sympathetic to this particular -- this particular circumstance in this week, when they are doing their Republican Convention, you have to wonder if there's a hesitancy to actually go forward with that, because it would complicate their message, which they really do want to focus on being anti-protester, anti -- quote, unquote -- "anarchy in the streets."

And I think it would be harder for them to do that if they were seen as being sympathetic to Blake, because, frankly, in the conservative media and in the conservative sphere, if you see what they're saying online, they do not want sympathy for Jacob Blake.

Many of the president's supporters do not think that it is deserved.

TAPPER: In fact, Laura, I have seen a lot of people in the conservative media expressing sympathy for Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17- year-old who's been arrested for murder for taking a long gun from his home in Illinois to the streets of Kenosha and shooting protesters.

BARRON-LOPEZ: And that fits, Jake, with what we have seen in the past few months from conservative media, from Republican circles, which is this increasing attempt to stoke backlash against the Black Lives Matter movement, whether it's by painting it as -- quote -- "Marxist," trying to cast that over the entire movement, even though -- despite the fact that a number of leaders within that movement do not subscribe to that ideology.

But these are attempts to paint the larger movement as radical and as a threat to what Trump considers his base, which is white voters and suburbs.

TAPPER: Laura, Abby, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Be sure to join me tonight for our coverage of the final night of the Republican National Convention.

Until then, you can follow me on Facebook, on Instagram, at Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @THELEADCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you in a few hours.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We're following multiple breaking stories, including the boycotts rippling through the world of pro sports, in protest of the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, the NBA playoffs postponed for a second night, though they are now expected to resume possibly as early as tomorrow or over the weekend.