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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Experts Fearing Post-Labor Day COVID-19 Spike; Trump Blasts Doubters of Early Coronavirus Vaccine. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 07, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Doctors say it is still too soon to know what the long-term effects may be. The Kremlin, meantime, denies that he was ever poisoned.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

CNN's special coverage continues now with Pam Brown.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper on this Labor Day.

And we begin this hour with breaking news. President Trump moments ago wrapped a meandering news conference, defending his record on coronavirus and then went after his presidential rival Joe Biden and running mate Senator Kamala Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Biden and his very liberal running mate, the most liberal person in Congress, by the way, is not a competent person, in my opinion, would destroy this country. It would destroy this economy.

Should immediately apologize for the reckless anti-vaccine rhetoric that they are talking right now, talking about endangering lives, and it undermines science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us live from the White House. So, Jeremy, this was billed as a Labor Day press conference. But what was really the point of this?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no doubt the president turned this into a political attack speech, as he so often does during these news conferences, going after Joe Biden, in so many terms as to even call him stupid, and to suggest that China would own the United States if Joe Biden was elected president. But perhaps the most noteworthy comment that the president made was directed at the vice presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, the president suggesting that Harris made -- quote -- "reckless anti- vaccine comments," and he called on her to apologize.

But, Pam, that is just a total mischaracterization of what Senator Harris said just yesterday to our colleague Dana Bash on "STATE OF THE UNION."

Listen to what Senator Harris actually said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that's going to be an issue for all of us.

I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about.

I will not take his word for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, some have said that Senator Harris could have been clearer in touting that a safe and effective vaccine touted by public health experts, that people should go ahead and get that.

But there's no question that she made a direct distinction between what President Trump would say about a vaccine vs. what public health experts would say, and making clear that, if public health experts said this vaccine was safe and effective, then she would indeed trust that.

Now, despite the fact that the president is insisting that it is the Democrats who are making politics of this vaccine issue, the president himself once again today, Pam claimed, or suggested, at least, that a vaccine could be ready by Election Day, calling it a -- quote -- "special day."

Of course, public health experts have offered no evidence, haven't said by any indication that a vaccine would be ready by then, only that it could possibly be ready by the end of the year or early next year.

BROWN: Right. That's what they say for mass distribution to Americans. The earliest, they say, is by the end of the year, early next year.

And also, Jeremy, he spent a significant amount of time denying the "Atlantic" report that came out last week that claimed President Trump called U.S. service members who died suckers and losers.

What is he saying today?

DIAMOND: Yes, the president once again saying that only an animal would refer to fallen service members in that way. And he touted a -- the latest denial by a former aide.

This time, it was Zachary Fuentes, the former deputy White House chief of staff under Chief of Staff John Kelly. Fuentes did indeed say that he did not hear the president make those comments, but he also, interestingly, said that he believes the sources of "The Atlantic" story may have been -- quote -- "conflating stories."

That suggests that perhaps the president made these kinds of comments in another setting. I asked Fuentes a follow-up question to ask him about that. He has so far not replied.

But what was also notable, Pam, was even as the president was defending himself from these allegations, insisting that he wouldn't attack the military, he went after the military brass, claiming, without offering any evidence, that military leaders only want to be engaged in endless wars, so that they can support defense contractors with their production of bombs and warplanes, et cetera.

So, nonetheless, Pam, the president continuing to make these questionable comments about the military.

BROWN: And he also went after John McCain again.

All right, thanks so much, Jeremy Diamond. Appreciate it.

Joe Biden today, meanwhile, in Pennsylvania also weighed in on the possible vaccine for coronavirus, after his running mate, Kamala Harris, told CNN she wouldn't trust Trump as a credible source of information.

As we just heard there in Jeremy's report, Biden today said the president is -- quote -- "undermining public confidence."

CNN's Arlette Saenz is live from Harrisburg.

So, Arlette, the question really is whether Biden would take a vaccine if it were offered before Election Day. What did he say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Pamela, Joe Biden said he would take a vaccine if it was offered before Election Day, but added that he wants to listen to the scientists.

[15:05:07]

As he was leaving an event in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, he told reporters that he wants to see full transparency when it comes to the development and release of a vaccine. And he warns that President Trump's misstatements about the coronavirus could undermine public confidence.

Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's said so many things that aren't true. I'm worried, if we do have a really good vaccine, people are going to

be reluctant to take it. And so he's undermining public confidence.

But pray God we have it. If I could get a vaccine tomorrow, I would do it. If it cost me the election, I would do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, this comes after Kamala Harris had said that she would not trust the president's word alone on a coronavirus vaccine, that she would want to hear about the efficacy relating to it from scientists.

Biden making clear today that, if there was a vaccine, that there would be no political influence on him whether to take one, whether -- if there was an effective vaccine approved by scientists -- Pamela.

BROWN: And let's also note that you were in Pennsylvania covering vital Biden. Of course, this is a crucial battleground state, one that voted for Democrats in presidential elections for the past two decades. Until 2016.

Tell us what's at stake for Joe Biden in Pennsylvania.

SAENZ: Well, it's so important that he's spending his Labor Day here. Labor Day is kind of the unofficial kickoff sprint to the election.

And Biden was here in Pennsylvania last week. He's here today. He will be here again on Friday, showing just how important the state is to Democrats heading in to November's election.

President Trump won this state by 44,000 votes back in 2016. We are in a county that Hillary Clinton won during that election, so Biden hoping he can kind of run up the score here, as he's hoping that Pennsylvania can be one of those states that could help deliver him the election against President Trump come November.

BROWN: All right, Arlette, thank you so much live for us there in Pennsylvania.

Now I want to bring in CNN's Abby Phillip and Gloria Borger.

Great to see you both.

Gloria, President Trump, as we have just been talking about, accused Joe Biden and Kamala Harris of undermining science by questioning his rhetoric on the vaccine. Is there any factual proof to back that up?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, there isn't at all.

In fact, if you talk to scientists, and if you were to ask them who's undermining science, I think the answer here would be Donald Trump. What was stunning to me was, he said, we're going to have that vaccine, maybe before a very special date, and you know what that date is, meaning the November election. And then he goes on to accuse the Democrats of politicizing the vaccine. So, when you're talking about definitely getting a vaccine before the date of the election, and he clearly believes that's a silver bullet for him -- and I'm not so sure that's wise -- but he clearly believes it is and thanks he will get a lot of credit for it, deserved or undeserved.

Then he accuses the Democrats and saying, no, no, no, it's not me. It's them.

And I think the public ought to be saying, wait a minute, we just want the scientists to talk about the vaccine. We don't want any presidential candidate to talk about the vaccine. Let science do it.

BROWN: What do you think, Abby? Could that messaging backfire for the president?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely.

A recent CBS poll found that 65 percent of Americans thought that, if a vaccine was available before the election, before the end of the year, that it would be the result of a rushed process.

That is a really high number. It's a troubling number from a public health perspective, but also from a political perspective for the president. There would be really nothing worse for President Trump than being perceived as to be rushing a vaccine just for the purposes of his own electoral standing.

And I think the American public is already skeptical of the vaccine process. They are already skeptical of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic in general. To reinforce that by continuously seeming to suggest that the timing could be tied to the election, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

There is -- I think the president seems to have this idea that the vaccine is going to be a panacea for him. But the reality is going to be a lot more complicated than that, if so many Americans just simply don't trust it.

And when it's time for public health professionals to get Americans to actually take this vaccine, and they don't want to do it, that's a catastrophe waiting to happen.

And I think it's a real risk for the president to go down this road.

BROWN: Well, even, Gloria, if the vaccine is ready before the election, it's not like it just goes out to everyone right away.

BORGER: No.

BROWN: I mean, there's a whole process. It will take time, a fair amount of time, until other people can get beyond those first -- front-line workers.

[15:10:01] But it does make you wonder, when you hear the president talk like this. That CDC letter went out to the states last week telling them to get ready, prepare, something could come late October.

Is your sense that he's just dangling out there just, even if it doesn't come before the election, because he thinks this will help him?

BORGER: Right. Yes.

He wants to get credit for Operation Warp Speed, as he calls it. Remember, early on, Tony Fauci warned that he didn't like the name Operation Warp Speed, because he felt that it would give the American public a sense that this was being rushed through.

And that's why you saw the drug manufacturers get together this past week and say, you know what, we're not going to rush anything through until we all believe that what we have is actually safe and effective.

And I think that's where we are right now. And for the president to say, we're going to have it, I think he's setting himself up for a problem here, because it's very complex to distribute these vaccines.

And people are skeptical. Don't forget, this is a president who brought you hydroxychloroquine. This is a president who said that COVID would go away in two weeks.

And I think that the public is skeptical for good reasons. And they have to be able to see from the science that it's going to work before they put anyone they love or themselves in harm's way before taking the vaccine.

BROWN: And, of course, another topic that came out today during this press conference was the "Atlantic" report.

The president claimed that report, which claimed he called U.S. service members who died suckers and losers, was totally made up.

But then, Abby, he went on to attack the late Senator John McCain again, in the same way the article describes.

PHILLIP: Exactly.

I think this is what has made this whole situation so difficult for the president to try to deny. He has said these things about John McCain on the record, on camera, on social media repeatedly. People have seen it. They have seen it reported for years.

And so the president is trying to deny that he would ever call someone who was a prisoner of war or a former service member a loser. He did it. He did it when it came to John McCain. He claimed to chalk that up to just a personal disagreement between the two men.

But he has said publicly that he doesn't like people who were captured. That's something that he said, not something that was made up about him. He also cited the sort of denial by a former top aide, Zach Fuentes, who you heard Jeremy talking about.

But it should be noted that Fuentes denied that he was a source of the "Atlantic" article. He said that he personally didn't hear that from the president. But he also seemed to suggest that those the source of "The Atlantic" article was people conflating multiple stories.

It just raises a lot of questions about where this is all headed. And it's not the clear denial that the president wanted to make it out to be today.

BROWN: And that statement certainly raised a lot of question.

Thanks so much, Abby, Gloria. I appreciate it.

And now let's discuss all of this with Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the chief of infections -- infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital.

Nice to see you, Dr. Walensky.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I want to talk about the vaccine. Let's start off there, because, obviously, that was a big topic for the president today.

He denied that he was politicizing a vaccine, and instead blamed Democrats of doing it. Do you worry there is so much partisan fighting, that Americans won't trust a vaccine once it's actually approved?

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: It's a great point.

Good afternoon, Pam.

There's an enormous amount of vaccine hesitancy in this country at baseline. We know the flu vaccine that has a long, long history. Generally every year -- a history of safety. Generally, every year, only about 45 percent of Americans who are eligible receive the flu vaccine.

So, you layer on top of that the fact that this is moving very, very quickly. Layer on top of that -- a lot of the politics that have been embedded in conversations, and then finally the concern that, over the last several months, we have seen what I would perceive and my colleagues I believe would perceive as missteps in the FDA, in the CDC with regard to convalescent plasma, guidelines on COVID testing, and that many of these agencies seems to be falling under the political thumb of the administration.

And so there's a lot of concern and trust. And I think we have seen that in the polls of people who would take the vaccine. In July, about one in three American voters said that they would be interested in taking vaccine. And, more recently, now it's down to one in five.

Given how critical this vaccine is going to be in our toolbox of tackling this disease, I have real concerns about it becoming a political discussion and not a scientific one.

BROWN: And that is -- that's a valid concern.

Let's game this out. Let's say that a vaccine was approved for release by -- before the election, late October, early November. When would the majority of Americans actually have access to it?

[15:15:00]

WALENSKY: Right. It's a really key question.

And part of the question is how many vaccines we will have. How many of these trials will demonstrate proven efficacy? And I think we can believe that this will be a limited resource for at least the medium term.

The first vaccine that started in clinical trials was the Moderna vaccine. That is a two-dose vaccine. And, in fact, the outcomes of that vaccine not only wait until two doses, but two weeks after the second dose.

So we're really talking about millions of Americans needing vaccination. We're talking about many of them needing -- for the Moderna vaccine anyway -- two doses of vaccination. So this is going to not be a quick fix regardless.

The National Academy of Medicine has been asked by the CDC and the NIH to think through who would be prioritized. I think everybody recognizes that this will be a scarce resource as soon as we have it.

And the first phase of prioritization is going to be towards first responders, health care workers, those at highest risk of morbidity and mortality, the elderly, as well as elderly living in congregate settings.

BROWN: And, right now, as we await for a vaccine to be approved, we're sort of at the mercy of these phase three trials and how that goes in terms of collecting enough data to approve release.

But this new data is showing the coronavirus vaccine trials, they're still not enrolling enough minority participants. Is there any way to know if a vaccine is safe unless these trials can meet the goals?

WALENSKY: Right. It's really important.

We know that there are about 2.5 times the number of cases of COVID among Latinx communities and black Hispanic communities, black communities, and we know that there are about 4.5 times the hospitalizations among these communities compared to whites.

So, we very much need to make sure that the vaccine is going to be effective and safe specifically among these communities. And they have been under-enrolled compared to white communities.

So, just this past week, Moderna has agreed to slow down enrollment, in the hopes of increasing enrollment for black and Latinx communities.

BROWN: All right, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, thank you so much. This discussion will continue. That's for sure.

WALENSKY: Thanks so much for having me.

BROWN: Take a look. What scenes like this from around the country over Labor Day weekend could mean for coronavirus in the fall.

And then President Trump claims Rochester, New York, had a -- quote -- "bad night of protests." Now that city's mayor is responding.

We will be back.

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[15:21:52]

BROWN: And welcome back to a special edition of THE LEAD.

And I want to turn now to our health lead today. There are renewed fears that coronavirus cases spike after these massive holiday gatherings we have seen, health experts have been warning against for weeks, are popping up across the country.

There were not many signs of social distancing as crowds packed the beaches from New Jersey and Maryland down to Florida and Georgia. The mayor is calling this party right here with more than 1,000 people in San Francisco -- quote -- "reckless and selfish."

This is where the United States is today. Sixteen states are seeing a rise in cases, with 16 others holding steady and 18 seeing decreases. But, remember, we saw enormous spikes in new cases after Memorial Day and then after July 4, and top doctors worry it could happen again now.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live in Miami Beach, Florida.

So, what have you seen, Rosa?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, walk with me, Pamela, because I can show you around.

As you mentioned, I'm on iconic Miami Beach. And you can see that mostly we are seeing a lot of families. The furniture out here on the beach is spaced more than six feet apart to allow for social distancing. We do see people with masks, and others have their masks with them just in case they end up in a situation where they can't social distance.

But like -- as you mentioned, experts are very worried that there could be a spike in cases, just like we saw right after the Memorial Day weekend and right after the July 4 weekend. If you look at those numbers nationally, you will see that, during that summer surge, nationally, the U.S. was reporting more than 60,000 cases in one day. Now it's down to more than 40,000 cases a day. Here in the state of

Florida, which was the epicenter of the crisis in the U.S. for a while, at the peak of the surge, we reported here in the state of Florida more than 15,000 cases. And that, of course, now has dropped down to about 2,000 to 3,000 cases in the past week.

But officials here are very concerned that what you're seeing out here could lead to another surge. And, Pamela, here's the other concern, what you don't see.

Now, officials here in Miami-Dade County saw a surge in transmission in the home. So that's the message here from officials, saying, don't just be careful and social distance and wear a mask while you're outside, but also when you're inside the home, especially when you have parties at home or at rental properties, which is where we saw the big spike here in Southeast Florida -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, and that's where the transmission often happens. Thanks so much, Rosa. Appreciate it.

Well, this afternoon, President Trump once again suggested a vaccine could be available before the election in November. But three of the companies working on vaccines are planning to make an unusual pledge, not to rush the process under political pressure, this according to "The Wall Street Journal."

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me live.

So, Elizabeth, what more do we know about this pledge and why these companies are making it now?

[15:25:00]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The companies are making it now because they want the public to have confidence in this vaccine, Pamela.

And part of the reason why they don't have confidence is because President Trump makes it sound like we're going to have a vaccine ready to go by Election Day.

But I will tell you, I have spoken with a federal official who is familiar with what is going on at Operation Warp Speed. That's the sort of perhaps unfortunately named federal vaccine effort to get a vaccine out on the market.

And let me tell you what this federal official told me. They said: "I don't know any scientist involved in this effort who thinks we will be getting shots into arms any time before Election Day."

So that is someone who works within the Trump administration who says: I don't think we're going to be getting shots into arms on Election Day.

And, Pamela, I will tell you this is what every infectious disease expert, everyone who's ever run a vaccine trial who I have ever talked to has said. They said it is just not going to happen. We just won't have the data in time -- Pamela.

BROWN: So, help us understand this process with these private companies developing the vaccine. So they're going to make this pledge that they won't put anything out under political pressure. But how much control do these private companies actually have about over what the U.S. releases?

COHEN: Well, I mean, they do have control, because they're the ones who apply for the permission to put it on the market. So they decide when they're going to apply.

By definition, they should not be applying for permission to put a vaccine on the market until that vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective.

So the fact that they're putting out a pledge saying, don't worry, we won't put out a vaccine until it's safe as effective, it's kind of like a milk company saying, don't worry, we won't put sour milk on the market.

I mean, it's kind of, it's of course. Of course, you wouldn't ask the FDA to put out a vaccine that's that is -- until it's safe and effective. The fact that they have to do it is really sad, or the fact they feel they have to do it is really sad.

BROWN: All right, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Elizabeth.

Well, Jacob Blake just spoke to Democratic vice presidential nominee Senator Kamala Harris.

What he told her -- up next.

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