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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Republican Operatives Backing Kanye West Presidential Bid; FDA Set to Announce Stricter Vaccine Standards?; Interview With Former U.S. National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster; Russia Targets Joe Biden. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired September 22, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:32:15]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our world lead today: Russian President Vladimir Putin is -- quote -- "probably directing" Russia's efforts to interfere in the 2020 U.S. presidential election -- quote -- "aimed at denigrating Joe Biden's campaign."

That's our world lead, according to a new assessment from the CIA, as reported by "The Washington Post"'s Josh Rogin. This is the first time we have heard that Putin is directly involved with interfering in our upcoming election.

One former CIA officer telling CNN that the phrasing from the report means that analysts are confident enough in their findings that they're willing to put their reputations on the line.

Joining me now is the former national security adviser for President Trump, retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster.

His new book, "Battlegrounds: The Fight to Defend the Free World," is out today.

Congratulations on the book, General. We really appreciate your being here today.

H.R. MCMASTER, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Hey, thanks, Jake. Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: So, I want to start with this "Washington Post" reporting on the CIA assessment on Putin.

You write a lot about Putin and Russia in the book. What's your reaction?

MCMASTER: Well, this is what they do, right? It's like the Geico commercial. When you're Putin, you disrupt your the elections and democratic processes.

And really what they're trying to do overall, Jake, is reduce our confidence in our democratic processes. And this was what they did, obviously, in 2016. And it's really part of a sustained campaign of political subversion.

TAPPER: And what should the U.S. be doing to combat what Russia is doing to us right now?

MCMASTER: Well, first of all, we have to defend our systems.

And I think we have made a lot of progress on that. We have stood up new organizations that have established standards, are working with the states on protecting the electoral systems.

But what's most pernicious about Putin's playbook here is the sustained campaign of political subversion and disinformation that's aimed at polarizing us, pitting us against each other, and reducing our confidence in our election and the outcome.

It's really interesting about 2016. The IRA, the Internet Research Agency, which is the front organization for Russian intelligence that ran all of this disinformation, their activity, their spending and resources went way up after the election, because they wanted to reduce our confidence in the results, right?

And they -- I think they, like most people, thought Hillary Clinton was going to win. So they had teed up a disinformation campaign that, oh, hey, President Trump would have would have won, except it was rigged, right?

And so when President Trump won, they -- actually, some of that campaign leaked out, and then they shifted over to the campaign that said, oh, well, he would have won the popular vote if it wasn't for problems in America's voting system and in our democratic system.

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So, I think what they want to do is, they want to shake our confidence, raise doubts about who we are, raise doubts really about the result of whatever the election is.

TAPPER: General, I know you're hesitant to criticize President Trump, and your book is not a criticism of President Trump. It's really about foreign policy, writ large.

But what do you make of the fact of President Trump and many leaders in the Senate, in the House -- and you can phrase it vaguely if you don't want to be criticizing the president, but what do you make of the fact that so many of the criticisms that you're talking about the Russians are trying to do to make us and the public not trust in our election integrity, the election is rigged, Joe Biden has dementia, and all this stuff, is stuff that we're hearing repeated by leaders, by American political leaders?

MCMASTER: Yet, it's just wrong, Jake.

It's making it easy for Vladimir Putin. And I think it's really important for leaders to be responsible about this, because, really, Putin doesn't create these divisions in our society. He doesn't create these doubts. He magnifies them.

And we just have to be really careful not to be our own worst enemies. TAPPER: So here's what you wrote about Putin's strategy for Russia --

quote -- "Rather than build Russia up to a position of predominance, Putin wants to drag others down, weaken rival states and unravel alliance networks that give those states strategic advantages."

If Putin's strategy, General, is to pull down others, what do you think his reaction is when, for instance, President Trump refuses to condemn Russia or Putin for the poisoning of opposition leader Alexei Navalny?

MCMASTER: Well, he's happy about it. He's happy about it.

I mean, he has a campaign what I describe, in trying to be alliterative, of disruption and denial, right? And if he can get away with it by sowing all these different conspiracy theories, by just flat-out denying it, I mean, these are people who shot down an airliner over Ukraine with incontrovertible evidence.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCMASTER: And said, oh, well, we never did that.

And so I think it's immensely important for us to be responsible, to pull the curtain back on their activity, and not -- not buy into the Russian narrative when it might be convenient to do so from a partisan political perspective.

I think -- and what the book is largely about, Jake -- I hope it works -- is to try to transcend that partisanship that is driving us apart, and also making us vulnerable to somebody like Vladimir Putin.

TAPPER: Something happened this summer that I wondered what you thought about at the time.

Both the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Mark Milley, in uniform, walked with President Trump through Lafayette Square for a photo-op after Park Police gassed and in some case beat protesters, most of them peaceful.

Now, Milley and Esper both expressed regret afterwards. You have been very proud of being apolitical partisan -- in terms of partisanship while serving in the military. What was your reaction when you saw that?

MCMASTER: Well, I mean, I think it was unfortunate, and I will let them speak for themselves on that. They both, I think, made statements immediately following that.

And then I know that General Milley spoke to the force, really, to reassure everybody, listen, we are not going to allow ourselves as a military profession to be drug into partisan politics.

And I think this is really incumbent on all political leaders. Don't try to use a general or generals or retired generals to make it seem as if the military is somehow endorsing one political party over another. And our founders were really worried about this, Jake. I'm an American

historian. And I think it's worth pointing out that George Washington's grandparents fled the English civil war, and they were afraid of the military becoming involved in politics or certainly in any kind of political transition.

And so I think all of us have a responsibility to do this, those of us in the military, certainly, but also our political leaders have to take on that responsibility as well.

TAPPER: Retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster, former national security adviser, thank you so much. Congratulations again on the book.

The new book is called "Battlegrounds," and it is available as of today.

Thanks again, General.

MCMASTER: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Breaking news: the FDA reportedly set to announce tougher standards for a coronavirus vaccine.

Will this convince skeptical Americans that a vaccine will be safe?

That's next.

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TAPPER: Breaking news: "The Washington Post" is now reporting that the FDA will out even stricter standards for the emergency authorization of a potential coronavirus vaccine, meaning it will be -- quote -- "exceedingly difficult" for any vaccine to be approved by Election Day.

I want to bring in Dr. Peter Hotez. He's the co-director for the Vaccine Development Center at Texas Children's Hospital and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor's College of Medicine.

Dr. Hotez, good to see you.

So, "The Post" reports that the FDA is issuing this guidance as an effort to boost transparency and improve public trust, which has eroded. What do you make of it?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yes, I think it's a good move, because you certainly want a vaccine to protect against severe disease. You don't want a vaccine that just protects against mild or asymptomatic infection.

So, I think this is a welcome addition. But I think it also goes to show that we need a better system of communication about Operation warp Speed and the vaccine program. The way it's rolling out is not working very well. We're leaving it to the CEOs of the companies.

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And, in many cases, they have fumbled the message. And we still don't have that steady stream of communication coming out of leadership in Washington.

And I really think we need that on a regular and periodic communication, almost like what Andrew Cuomo has done, maybe not on a daily basis, but a weekly or other weekly basis, so the American people can have a better understanding of it, because, right now, I'm really worried about eroding confidence in the vaccine program.

TAPPER: But if President Trump were to repeat what Governor Cuomo did -- I mean, one of the reasons I think that there is such an erosion of confidence is because President Trump has so politicized the CDC and the FDA.

You think that his speaking to people about the vaccine...

HOTEZ: No, no, no.

TAPPER: Go ahead.

HOTEZ: Yes.

Yes, I should have -- I should have been clearer. Yes, definitely not the president or even the White House Coronavirus Task Force. It needs to be some of the -- pick and choose some really key scientists that the American people would trust, maybe Tony Fauci, Francis Collins. Moncef Slaoui, I think, has credibility.

Bring a few of those, some people from the FDA. Bring a few of those together and really explain to the American people on a regular and frequent basis what -- how the vaccine program is going to work, how these vaccines work, when they will be rolled out, realistic timelines.

And I think the American people, that will resonate -- resonate very well with the American people. They're yearning for this, because we're seeing just so many missteps from the CEO of AstraZeneca, from the CEO -- from the leadership of Moderna, with the stock trading and all of that, and then even the CEO of Pfizer. There were some missteps there.

And so we have to stop hearing from the companies. Remember, when the CEOs are talking to the public, they're not talking to you. They're not talking to me. They're talking to the shareholders.

TAPPER: Right.

HOTEZ: And, so far, they have been oblivious and tone-deaf as to the reality that this is a homeland security issue.

TAPPER: And there has been this real struggle to convince Americans that they should get a vaccine when one has been approved. A new Axios/Ipsos poll shows most Americans, 60 percent, say they are not likely to get the first-generation coronavirus vaccine when it's available. That number is up nine points since last month. Only 39 percent say they are likely to get the first-generation vaccine when it's ready.

The Trump administration and pharmaceutical companies seem to have a lot of work to do to get people to trust what's being made.

And let me just also note, on a personal note, I will be happy to get a first-generation vaccine, coronavirus, when it is ready. If Dr. Fauci says it's OK, I will put it in my arm and I will put it in my family's arm. So I don't want anyone to think that I'm -- agree with that.

HOTEZ: Yes, that's the point. And I'm more or less -- I'm with you, Jake, on that as well.

I think the point is, there's a vacuum in communication that's being filled right now by the CEOs, number one. And it's being filled by a very aggressive anti-vaccine lobby that dominates the Internet. There's more than 480 anti-vaccine Web sites out there, all wrapped up on social media and the e-commerce sites.

If you go to the Amazon site, it's basically an anti-vaccine site. It's all fake anti-vaccine books that they're mostly pushing. And this is having a disastrous effect.

And we did a study with a group at City University in New York that finds that, if you don't have 75, 80 percent of the population vaccinated, you're not going to get herd immunity, you're not going to interrupt transmission.

And what that means is, we will still -- we're still going to need masks and contact tracing and everything we're doing. And so there's going to be a lot of disappointment unless Operation Warp Speed can figure out a way to fix this.

TAPPER: I would just say that the anti-vaxxers are a pernicious influence. But I think one of the other problems going on here is President Trump politicizing the FDA, the CDC, pushing hydroxychloroquine, pushing plasma before it's ready, talking about white oleandrin extract because the guy from MyPillow said that he should.

I mean, I think that's a big problem, too, in his desperation to get reelected.

HOTEZ: It's huge.

I mean, remember, this is a whole anti-science disinformation campaign that he's been leading for the last year.

TAPPER: Oh, yes. Plus, he's been an anti-vaxxer for years before that.

Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you so much.

Coming up next: a look at who is behind Kanye West's troubled presidential campaign. And what we found will concern you.

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TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: However frivolous it might seem on its face, it's really no laughing matter.

Kanye West is running for president. The rapper and Trump supporter cannot mathematically win, but he could clearly play spoiler.

CNN's Sara Murray brings us this disturbing report about one of the many Republican operatives helping West's campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kanye West's ill-fated presidential bid has shelled out nearly $1.5 million to an Arizona firm run by a man with a long history of controversial work for the GOP.

NATHAN SPROUL, LINCOLN STRATEGY GROUP: Our company had a systematic effort of quality control.

MURRAY: The address for the mysterious newly formed company, Fortified Consulting, instead leads to Lincoln Strategy Group, a GOP consulting firm founded by Nathan Sproul.

Sproul has worked for Republicans for years doing voter registration, consulting and polling. His firm even worked for Donald Trump's 2016 campaign.

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Sproul's involvement and history with the GOP add to suspicions that the billionaire rapper's run is little more than an effort to siphon votes from Democratic nominee Joe Biden and boost President Donald Trump's reelection odds.

That perception also fed by West's prior support for Trump.

KANYE WEST, MUSICIAN: I love this guy right here. Let me give this guy a hug.

(LAUGHTER)

MURRAY: West, who did not comment for this story, has no mathematical shot at winning the presidency, but is soldiering on.

WEST: I'm running because I was hit with the idea to run in 2020. Now, the outcome is up to God.

MURRAY: His campaign, meantime, faces complaints across the country over allegedly submitting fake signatures, duping voters into signing petitions supporting West or, according to reporters in Wyoming, asking voters to sign a petition to -- quote -- "take votes from Biden."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this campaign's attempts to get on the ballot has been unusually rocky. There's always people willing to take your money if you're saying you're willing to get on the ballot. And given the time frame and the difficulty of getting on the presidential ballot in such a short time period, people cut corners.

MURRAY: Complaints have not been tied directly to Fortified or Sproul. They are similar, though, to complaints Sproul's firms have faced before, though Sproul and his companies have never faced charges.

Sproul told CNN every presidential cycle his firms are "subjected to a predictable series of scurrilous and defamatory political attacks, designed to score cheap political points" and called the allegations completely without merit.

In 2004, a Sproul company faced allegations it destroyed Democrats' voter registrations and forged registration cards, setting off investigations in Arizona, Nevada and Oregon. Investigators in Oregon cleared Sproul of wrongdoing, but noted paying workers per signature gathered, rather than hourly, lends itself to fraudulent activity.

In 2012, suspicious voter registration forms in Florida were linked to a Sproul company. Two former workers wound up with probation, another sentence to a short jail stint. The Republican National Committee and Mitt Romney's campaign dropped Sproul's firm.

SPROUL: Rumor and innuendo run rampant, and I think it is a sexy news story 30 days out from a presidential election to scream the word fraud. And it's unfortunate.

MURRAY: By 2016, Sproul was back, working for the RNC and the Trump campaign. Sproul says this time he's working for West because "Kanye 2020 transcends traditional partisan labels."

West's campaign has drawn support from GOP operatives across the country and scorn from critics who say Republicans are taking advantage of the music mogul. West has said he has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and doesn't take regular medication for it. His wife has asked the public for compassion and empathy for West, who appears undeterred in his pursuit of the White House.

WEST: I shall be president at some point in our lifetime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, Nathan Sproul says his company always follows the law. He says any employees who violate their standard will be dismissed.

As for the president and His campaign, they say they have nothing to do with Kanye West's presidential bid.

TAPPER: Yes.

All right, Sara Murray, thank you so much.

Today is National Voter Registration Day. Earlier today, I spoke with "Veep" star Julia Louis-Dreyfus about the importance of voting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You have joined a campaign to try to get people to sign up to be poll workers, to work at polls.

JULIA LOUIS-DREYFUS, ACTRESS: That's right.

TAPPER: They get paid.

LOUIS-DREYFUS: Yes.

TAPPER: They get free PPE.

Tell us why that's important to you.

LOUIS-DREYFUS: Well, it's very fundamental. But it's important because particularly during this pandemic, if you do not have enough people working the polls, polls close down.

The idea was to keep polls open for everybody. And to do that, we need workers. I will say, I think it's a very patriotic act to sign up to work in a poll. My husband did it a couple times. And every time he did it, he came up home and he was all sort of teary about what an incredible experience it is to do something like that.

It feels like you're -- I don't know. I can't -- it feels sort of sacred in a way, because it is.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Yes. You're part of the American experiment, yes.

LOUIS-DREYFUS: Totally.

And I think it's -- I think it's an understatement to say that democracy is a fragile thing. And I think that's something that's very evident these days, more than ever.

I never thought I would see anything like what I'm seeing these days in my lifetime. I thought this kind of shenanigans that are going on were of the past. But it's a reminder that we really have to sort of stay the course and protect the democracy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Anybody 16 or over can volunteer at your local polling place.

Go to PowerthePolls.org. It is a nonpartisan organization.

And be sure to go to CNN.com/vote to find your state's voting deadline and local voter resources.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. See you tomorrow.

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