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The Lead with Jake Tapper
White House Chief of Staff Attacks FBI Director for Stating U.S. Has Never Seen "Coordinated National Voter Fraud Effort"; Interview with Former FBI Director Jim Comey and Actor Jeff Daniels. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired September 25, 2020 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And we're back with our politics lead. Today, the White House chief of staff publicly criticized FBI Director Christopher Wray for saying that he has seen no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
The previous FBI Director James Comey is scheduled to testify next week before the Senate Judiciary Committee to discuss the origins of the Russia investigation. That will be just days after Showtime airs a new film about Comey's tenure at the FBI in 2016 and 2017, called "The Comey Rule."
Joining me now to discuss is a special team-up, former FBI director under President Trump, James Comey, and the man who plays him in this new series "The Comey Rule," award-winning actor Jeff Daniels.
It's a pleasure to have you both on the show.
Thanks so much.
JIM COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Thanks for having me.
TAPPER: So, Director Comey, let me start with you. I want to get to the series. But first, there's a lot of stuff in the news I want to get your opinion on.
The White House once again this morning publicly criticized its own FBI director, Director Wray, his testimony, denying that there is evidence of massive voter fraud undercuts what President Trump keeps saying.
Take a listen to the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your own FBI director says he has seen no evidence of widespread voter fraud by mail or otherwise. MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, with all due respect
to Director Wray, he has a hard time finding emails in his own FBI, let alone of figuring out whether there's any kind of voter fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What's your reaction?
COMEY: It's lonely and difficult to be a person of integrity in this administration. Chris Wray is a person of integrity. The American people can believe what he says. And I'll leave it there.
TAPPER: President Trump this week continuing his campaign of repeatedly refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power after the November election should he lose. The White House claims he'll accept the results if the election is, quote, free and fair, but they don't explain how they define that.
Do you consider this dangerous rhetoric?
COMEY: Of course. And everyone, no matter your politics, should see it the same way. And I would hope that Republicans who were planning to vote for Donald Trump should ask themselves, am I really going to vote for someone who says they won't abide the culture, the norm, the transition that has made us America? How -- how could you support such a person?
TAPPER: One other point before I get to the film. Ahead of your testimony on Capitol Hill next week, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Lindsey Graham, he's released new documents showing that the FBI investigated dossier author Christopher Steele's primary sub-source because of contacts with Russian intelligence officers, Republicans obviously saying that that undermines the dossier even further which they argue undermines the entire Russia investigation.
What do you think?
COMEY: I haven't read what they put out. I'll read it before I testify next week, and I'll answer whatever questions they have, and, again, remind them and everybody who still cares about this that the investigation was begun based on information having nothing to do with this Steele dossier, setting aside the merits of the Steele dossier, which are important to debate.
This was begun based on credible information unconnected to that material and we should've been fired if we didn't investigate.
TAPPER: And, in fact, that is all illustrated in the film "The Comey Rules" where George Papadopoulos is at a bar talking to an Australian diplomat about that.
Let's turn to the film project and bring Jeff Daniels back in.
Jeff, it's almost surreal to think that Director Comey was fired a few years ago with how much has happened since then. Here's a little clip from the series.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boss, I'm uncomfortable with this. It looks too much like you're being pulled into a conspiracy by the president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That is his intention. Now what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things will settle down once Rosen (ph) is placed as DAG. He'll normalize our relations across the street, and restrict our contact to the White House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sound like a PowerPoint. Rosen's (ph) going to save you. He's going to cover his own ass, as he always has. Do you really not know how screwed you are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then stop walking into the Oval thinking you can outwit this guy. He's going to fire you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can't fire me. I'm running the Russia investigation. It would look horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's ego.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's fact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim, Jesus, fact is dead now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Fact is dead now.
Jeff, now that you have walked a mile in his shoes, to quote a different character you've played, do you agree with the decisions James Comey made?
JEFF DANIELS, PORTRAYS JAMES COMEY IN SHOWTIME'S "THE COMEY RULE": Yes. And I agree because I have -- having done the movie, have seen what Jim is up against. I have seen and read and portrayed between a rock and a hard place. It was not as simple as we all think it is when we jump onto social media. There were many factors involved.
But his bottom line was to maintain the integrity of the FBI and truth and justice and the rule of law. Those are all things that are bigger than Jim is, bigger than we are. And that used to matter in this country. And he hung on tight to those and let those be the things that guided him, not what was good for the political left or the political right.
TAPPER: That's interesting. You were adamant that the series needed to come out before the election. There was talk originally that Showtime was going to hold it until after November 3rd. Why was it so important to you for this to be seen before the
election? What do you want people to take away after they see this film?
DANIELS: I want them to know more than they did in October 2016, to know more than I knew. I didn't know enough. I learned so much doing this.
And this is just the Comey story. There are other things. I think people need to be far more informed going into this election than they were four years ago.
You know, four years ago, it was -- it was the email investigations being reopened. You've got Billy Bush's bus ride. You've got a whole bunch of the media's jumping all over the fact that Hillary might be guilty. And then the next thing, you know, the American electorate isn't paying attention.
[16:40:03]
And besides, if we elect Trump, I'll get my taxes cut and there will be ten guys around him that will stop him from doing something dangerous.
That's where we were in October of 2016. Those ten people are gone. And we're four years older and four years smarter, and I hope more informed. And I hope enough so that on November 3rd we go into that election with a little more information, and "The Comey Rule" is one of those things that can provide that.
TAPPER: Director Comey, you were on set for some of the filming. You told Jeff that you felt nauseated watching some of the scenes play out.
Why did you feel nauseated? And explain to us what it was like to relive all of this?
COMEY: Well, the source of the nausea was that the reliving was so real. I -- one day of the many, many days of shooting I had a chance to visit. And it just happened to be the day they were filming the scene in the Green Room where Donald Trump asked me to pledge personal loyalty to him.
And watching Jeff and Brendan Gleeson capture that moment, I -- it took me right back into the room and it made me feel ill. It was so real, and I made them a high compliment. I said, you guys have ruined my day.
They did an extraordinary job. It's really hard to watch. But I hope people will watch it.
TAPPER: Jeff Daniels, former FBI Director James Comey, thanks to both of you for being with us. This special booking, we appreciate it.
You can watch Showtime's "The Comey Rule" this Sunday and then part 2 Monday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Details on Joe Biden's debate strategy coming in, how he handles --
how he plans to handle President Trump's expected lies and smears. That's next.
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TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: You know those fake memes and conspiracy theories that President Trump and his team often like to retweet, the ones that they say, hey, they're just jokes?
Well, CNN went to a Minnesota rally to see if Trump supporters believed these lies flooding their news feeds and Twitter streams. But what we found was not a surprise. Lying and smearing works on some people, like, for instance, the disgusting smear that both Trump and his son have put out there about Biden being a pedophile.
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QUESTION: Anybody seriously think that Joe Biden's a pedophile?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. But that's just my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they say, well, this is fact-checked, it's wrong because it's taken out of context, like, when Joe Biden fell asleep during a live interview on television.
QUESTION: So, an article there is saying that it was faked, but it looks real, right? I mean, so it looked real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, I definitely wouldn't doubt that it would happen.
QUESTION: Even if it is fake, does it change your opinion of Biden?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We're just four days away from the first debate for Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
CNN's M.J. Lee joins us now.
And, M.J., did we see Biden down on the campaign trail today? What do we know about his debate preps?
M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, this morning, we saw a former Vice President Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, get on a plane to Washington, D.C., to pay their respects to Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Of course, the question of who fills the vacancy left by the late justice is now looming over large over the 2020 campaign. But other than that one visit to Washington, D.C., Joe Biden did not have any public events on his schedule.
We expect that the next couple of days are going to be very heavy with debate prep. Of course, Joe Biden had a lot of practice during the primaries, because he participated in so many debates. But this is going to be, Tuesday night, the first time that he faces off against Donald Trump on the debate stage.
And one issue that is going to be top of mind for the Biden campaign is going to be Donald Trump continuing to refuse to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he were to lose in November.
Biden was just asked about this in an interview. Here's a part of what he said.
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JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The American people aren't going to be shut down in this election. They're going to vote. They're going to vote in large numbers, and they're just not going to be denied.
I'm confident all the irresponsible, outrageous attacks on voting, we will have an election in this country, as we always have had. And he will leave.
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LEE: Now, talking to our Biden campaign sources, there is a real concern and even an expectation among Biden allies that, come Tuesday night, they're going to see Donald Trump continue to talk about misinformation or misstate facts or just blatantly lie, whether it's about Biden's biography, whether it is about the state of the country.
And what we are basically told is that Biden's goal heading into Tuesday night is not necessarily to try to refute or fact-check him in real time, just because that's not realistic. They really, really want to try to keep the focus on the economy, on the public health crisis and continue to talk about what they see as Donald Trump's failures in dealing with COVID-19 -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, M.J., thank you so much.
President Trump won the crucial swing state of Wisconsin by less than 1 percentage point in 2016. But there may be some new warning signs for the Trump campaign in the critical suburbs, as CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports.
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DEB THOMSON, UNDECIDED WISCONSIN VOTER: The office used to have a lot of dignity, and that's something that's missing.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deb Thomson is talking about the Oval Office and President Trump's conduct she often finds troubling. Yet, as a Catholic, she says she cannot that Joe Biden because he supports abortion rights.
(on camera): So, if you can't vote for Joe Biden, can I assume that you will vote for President Trump?
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THOMSON: I don't know, because part of me, I'm afraid to have him in office for four more years.
ZELENY (voice-over): Signs of the fall election season are everywhere here in battleground Wisconsin. So too are sounds of Trump exhaustion.
CAROLINE QUINLIN, UNDECIDED WISCONSIN VOTER: I have to say, I get it, I get it why people don't like Trump. But, at the same time, he has done a few things that I thought were important.
ZELENY: It's one of the biggest challenges facing Biden, capitalizing on voters' nagging uncertainty about Trump by persuading those with doubts to go Democratic.
VAL DINGMAN, UNDECIDED WISCONSIN VOTER: I will vote, yes. For who, I don't know yet.
ZELENY: Val Dingman does not like the president's handling of coronavirus, or how he conducted himself during a summer of racial unrest. But she's far from sold on Biden. Four years ago, she supported a third-party candidate, which she hopes not to do again.
DINGMAN: My vote for third party went to Trump, unfortunately. So I, I guess, learned my lesson.
ZELENY: Her indecision raises questions about an enthusiasm gap, which worries Biden supporters like Mary and Jerry Karthauser.
MARY KARTHAUSER, WISCONSIN BIDEN SUPPORTER: I hope there's not too many that are in that camp that can't realize that there's a lot of issues here at play.
JERRY KARTHAUSER, WISCONSIN BIDEN SUPPORTER: I sure as heck don't want to see Trump for the next four years.
ZELENY: The president narrowly won Wisconsin in 2016. His path to reelection will be determined to a large degree by his strength in these suburban Republican strongholds around Milwaukee.
PAUL DEMCZAK, WISCONSIN TRUMP SUPPORTER: Sometimes, he's a little bit direct, blunt, we could say. But, at the same time, you don't have to wonder if he's trying to hide anything. You know you're getting the straight answer from him.
ZELENY: Paul and Denisa Demczak wave their Trump flag proudly, but notice plenty of Biden signs nearby.
SALLY NORDSTROM, WISCONSIN BIDEN SUPPORTER: And I'm talking to everybody I can. And I'm annoying my neighbors by putting out these signs, because there's Trump/Pence signs all over my neighborhood. ZELENY: With absentee voting already under way, the president's
threat about not accepting the results of the election...
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to make sure the election is honest. And I'm not sure that it can be.
ZELENY: ... reverberated with controversy here.
Peter Akiti, an independent who plans to vote for Biden, said Trump supporters should take note.
PETER AKITI, WISCONSIN BIDEN SUPPORTER: This is kind of like a monarchy, a dictatorship. Like, America is a republic. We vote. We don't have dictatorships. You don't have queen or kings. People vote.
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ZELENY: So, it's not about Joe Biden winning these suburban counties. It is about him closing the margin, the very substantial margin that Hillary Clinton had four years ago.
Don't forget, Donald Trump won this state by just 23,000 votes. That's about 1 percentage point. So, Joe Biden trying to work these suburbs.
And, Jake, talking to people here on both sides, they say there's more Democratic signs of strength and interest at least than there certainly was four years ago -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny in the battleground state of Wisconsin, thank you so much.
Coming up next: one state going further than any other with a key climate crisis issue.
Stay with us.
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TAPPER: In our Earth Matters series: California is now the first state in the nation to require plastic beverage containers to be made of recycled materials.
The law is an effort to reduce the massive amount of plastic littering California's coast and roadways and will require beverage companies to use 15 percent recycled plastic in their bottles by 2022, 25 percent recycled plastic by 2025, and 50 percent recycled plastic by 2030.
The landmark move is part of a larger initiative in the state to help save the planet. This week. California's Governor Gavin Newsom also signed a bill banning the sale of gas-powered cars starting in 2035.
In our national lead, in a new CNN film, we remember a pioneer, Congressman and civil rights activist John Lewis, whose words during this time of unrest and pain in America resonate perhaps more than ever that.
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REP. JOHN LEWIS (D-GA): Let us not forget that we are involved in a serious social revolution. Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?
Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march in the streets of Birmingham?
To those who have said, be patient and wait, we have long said that we cannot be patient. If we do not get meaningful legislation out of this Congress, we will march through the South, through the streets of Jackson, through the streets of Danville, through the streets of Cambridge, through the streets of Birmingham.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
LEWIS: But we will march with the spirit of love and with the spirit of dignity that we have shown here today.
We must say:, wake up, America, wake up, for we cannot stop, and we will not and cannot be patient.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
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TAPPER: "John Lewis: Good Trouble" premieres Sunday night at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.
Be sure to tune in to this Sunday morning's CNN "STATE OF THE UNION."
Our guests include House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, an exclusive with Jill Biden, then Republican Senator from Arkansas Tom Cotton and Democratic Senator of West Virginia Joe Manchin, plus Jon Stewart and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand.
It's all at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on Sunday.
Our coverage on CNN continues right now. See you Sunday morning.
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