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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Democrats Prepare For Trump To Disrupt The Election; New Ransomware Attacks Raise More Concerns About Safety Of Local State Election Systems; Some Senate Democrats Won't Meet With Trump's Nominee; Russia's Top State News Anchor Gives Window Into How Kremlin Views U.S. Election. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired September 28, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: We're back with our 2020 LEAD. So what happens if President Trump claims victory on election night with millions of mail and votes uncounted? Or, if President Trump loses in crucial swing states and then Republican lawmakers try to overrule the voters? Those are just a couple of the doomsday election scenarios that Democrats are preparing for right now.

And as CNN's Abby Phillip reports, it may sound alarmist to some but Democrats say there was plenty of reason to believe the President is considering it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As the President continues to cast doubt over the legitimacy of an election that is just over a month away --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: This is going to be a disaster.

PHILLIP: Democratic officials tell CNN, an army of lawyers are preparing for a wide range of obscure election scenarios that Trump himself has floated, from sending law enforcement to monitor polls, to having the election decided in Congress.

TRUMP: We have an advantage if we go back to Congress. Does everyone understand that?

PHILLIP: A disputed Electoral College result could put the fate of the election the hands at the new House of Representatives elected in November, with each state delegation getting one vote. Republicans currently have a 26 to 22 advantage. Speaker Nancy Pelosi is ready for this possibility.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: I had been working on this for a while. I've been working on almost every scheme he might have to steal the election.

PHILLIP: Sending a letter to her caucus urging them to focus on winning a majority of state delegations in November. And flipping the Senate, writing, "We must achieve that majority of delegations or keep the Republicans from doing so." Trump has also floated the idea of an election that's decided in the Supreme Court, like Bush v Gore in 2000.

TRUMP: I think this will end up in the Supreme Court. And I think it's very important that we have nine justices.

PHILLIP: One of the Florida judges at the center of that recount who sided with Bush to stop the count and has since retired, making his fears of Trump clear in a rare letter to colleagues. Saying, Trump is a threat to democracy and giving only one real solution.

CHARLES WELLS, FORMER SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE, FLORIDA: There will not be a problem if the Democrats, if when the senate -- and Biden wins the presidency. The problem will result if there is continued to be a divide between the House and the Senate,

PHILLIP: Trump falsely claiming that voter fraud is rampant, tweeting this morning, the ballots being returned to states cannot be accurately counted. Many things are already going very wrong.

But the President has been building a case against absentee ballots or mailing voting for months, none of which is based on facts. Widespread voter fraud is largely non-existent in the United States.

TRUMP: You could forget about November 3rd, because you're going to be counting these things forever. And it's very dangerous for our country.

PHILLIP: But there are real risks for the election. Today, courts in New York and Pennsylvania ordered the Post Office to stop policy changes that would slow down the mail, echoing last week settlement with the Post Office forcing it to prioritize election mail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And today, we're learning of a new cyber attack known as a ransomware attack against one of the leading software companies, Tyler Technologies. Tyler Technologies provide software to some US election officials. And this attack is raising some concerns at state and local government IT systems may not be as secure as they need to be ahead of the selection, Pam.

BROWN: Which could, of course, add to any chaos and doubt about the results. Thanks so much, Abby, appreciate it. And joining me now to discuss all of this is the Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs. Thanks for joining us, Katie.

Look, I want to talk about mail-in ballots first, because Arizona has done in the past several decades. But in the age of coronavirus, those numbers have skyrocketed. More than 3 million ballots have already been requested or mailed to voters in Arizona. That's a million more than the 2016 election for context. Are you confident you're ready to handle this influx of ballots?

KATIE HOBBS, ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, we are. We have had mail-in voting as you've said in place for decades. And to a large scale, it's how three quarters of Arizona's already vote. And so, the infrastructure and the systems we need to process a large number of ballots by mail is in place. And so, I'm confident that we're prepared for additional mail-in ballots this election.

BROWN: So, you see the President harp on mail-in ballots a lot. And as Abby pointed out, he was just tweeting recently that, you know, there is no way that these ballots could be all be counted accurately. It is not uncommon for there to be administrative errors when tallying votes. Are you prepared for any issues, even the smallest ones, to be thrust into the national spotlight by people who are fighting against mail-in voting?

HOBBS: Well, the President is flat out wrong. Again, we have professional election administrators that are doing this work, and we've done it for years. We are focused on getting it right. That's our plan right now.

[16:35:00]

And we are prepared for this election, regardless of how people show up and vote if they're voting in-person or voting by mail. We are going to be prepared and we are going to make sure that every single ballot that is validly cast is able to be counted.

BROWN: So you're not concerned about administrative errors with this influx of mail-in ballots happening in your state.

HOBBS: No. The systems are in place to ensure that that the ballots are handled properly.

BROWN: And you're actually in a battle right now with your state's governor. You want to make it easier for people in nursing homes to actually be able to vote by video or telephone. Republican Governor Doug Ducey argues that's illegal and that you're going too far. What do you have to say about that?

HOBBS: Well, just a correction, we're not allowing anyone to vote by telephone. But the bottom line is that, these are baseless attacks, and they're part of the national playbook that we've been seeing around the country, undermine the credibility of the election officials, then you can undermine the integrity of the election, and question the legitimacy of the vote, and it has no place.

We are focused on getting our jobs done so that this election plays out, and that voters have access to the ballot in this election.

BROWN: And thank you for correcting me. So they're only -- you're proposing for them to just vote by video. So thanks for that. If your rules are not allowed to be implemented, how many people may not be able to vote?

HOBBS: Well, Maricopa County, which is our most populous county, and probably has the most long-term care facilities, they said that they assisted 10 people in the primary election in August with voting via video conference. And this is really a last resort that a special election board would employ if they're not able to have access to a facility because visitors are limited right now.

BROWN: I want to ask you, as we as we wrap this up, what Abby had touched on, that one of America's leading software providers was recently hit with a ransomware attack. Tyler Technologies provides these programs for some election officials. This is a company that tracks these ransomware attacks.

He says 75 governments and agencies have been hit already this year. Are you concerned that this could interfere with voting in Arizona or with the public perception if one of these ransomware attacks happens?

HOBBS: We are certainly concerned with public perception and doing everything that we can to ensure that our systems are secure. We are following best practices and having regular communication with election security officials throughout the state and with our federal partners. So I'm confident that our systems are secure. And we have obviously prevention in place and response plans should anything happen. But again, I do feel confident in the security.

BROWN: OK. So let's just talk about this because you have the security and then you have, you know, the messaging around anything that could go awry. There are concerns that the constant attacks on the election, including some from the President, are undermining faith in the process. What are you doing to counteract that?

As I noted earlier, any small thing that happens could be blown up and be under the national spotlight. What's your plan to counteract any of that?

HOBBS: Yes. Well, it is really frustrating when we're already dealing with misinformation from a lot of different angles, and it's coming from directly from the White House. And those kind of things can spread so rapidly on social media.

And so, our biggest tool is counteracting that with ensuring that voters are getting their information from trusted sources, from those election officials themselves or their official websites. That's really, really critical to stay in front of it. And we had record turnout in both our presidential preference election in March and the primary that we just held in August. So I think that voters trust in the system is there. We're continuing to see that momentum going into the November election.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, appreciate it.

HOBBS: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: And tomorrow night, President Trump will face off with Joe Biden and the first presidential debate. You can see it all live right here on CNN starting at 7:00 pm Eastern.

Well, some Senate Democrats argued Trump's Supreme Court pick could threaten the outcome of the election. I'll get the Republican response to that claim, up next.

[16:40:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Turning to our politics lead and just two weeks, the President's third Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett will begin confirmation hearings. Some Senate Democrats are taking a page from Republicans back in 2016, refusing to meet with Trump's nominee, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

Joining me now is Republican Senator Mike Braun from Indiana. Senator, thanks for joining us, we appreciate it.

I want to go to what Joe Biden said. This appeal to Republican senators over the confirmation of Barrett, saying it would be a "betrayal" of the single quality America is born and built on the people decide." By holding hearing so close to the election, are you taking that right away, senator?

SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): Well, I tell you what. My take on this is that, it's happened historically several times where in an election year you've had a vacancy. And I think if the shoe were on the other foot, they would be doing it at the same speed and probably wouldn't have anybody wavering in their rank and file.

So I think the important thing for us is that, we get a great candidate across the finish line. And I know there are reservations about what might happen if she gets on the bench. And I'm willing to talk about any of those eventualities because I think when you bring her record --

[16:45:00]

BROWN: Well, before we get to her records, Senator Braun, before we get to that, I just before hone in a little bit more on this because you said the shoe on the other foot. So if it was reverse, if like it was in 2016, what would you be saying? I mean, would you be making the opposite argue the argument that you're making right now?

BRAUN: You have to have both shoes on the feet in the sense that that wasn't the situation where the President and the Senate were under the same party. When I refer to it historically, when it was that was the case, it always moved through. Timing was a little different back years ago, but I think at the same set of circumstances were in place, you'd see the same thing happening.

I think what you need to do is if you've got a valid argument, why she wouldn't be a great Supreme Court justice --

BROWN: But the big argument back then in 2016 --

BRAUN: That's what we got hearings for.

BROWN: And I covered it at length. The big argument was, hey, you've got to let the people weigh in the election. This is an election year. This is an opportunity for the people to weigh in, and now where the Republicans are rushing this confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett, the Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin was asked if Barrett should recuse herself from any election related cases. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: I certainly wish she would. It would really help matter. This President has been outspoken and outrageous to think that he would not accept the verdict of the election, and that he would make it clear that he's filling this vacancy on the Supreme Court to make sure it tips his way if there's any election contest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So if she gets confirmed, would you support Barrett recusing herself on those issues?

BRAUN: I don't think she needs to recuse herself, because I think when we've got the opportunity to put someone on the bench of her quality, where she is so sharp and her opinions is set up front that she will be a constitutionalist. Even if for some reason she would lean policy wise, and that's the reason we need more people like her to where they can separate the two, not legislate from the bench.

Regardless, it's going to move through. I think that you're going to have the same attempt to maybe derail like you saw back in the Cavanaugh hearings. That was only two years ago. I remember vividly, when it got to the decibel level, as caustic as it was. And it was a real, I think, boost for my winning and Josh Hawley's in Missouri.

And I think the fact that we control the presidency, have the Senate can be dereliction of duty. If we didn't do it, I can guarantee the other side would be doing it. And we'd probably be making the same argument, otherwise. In this case --

BROWN: But is that what people outside of the Washington, out of the Beltway, they just can't stand the politics and the hypocrisy of it. Isn't this the exact thing that people in your state just are fed up with?

BRAUN: I think in my state, clearly from all the feedback I'm getting, they want to see this process move forward, because they think we have an excellent opportunity. But someone on the bench along the lines of a Scalia, someone that's going to go there, that's got an intellect judicially as good as anyone, and we'll be there not legislating from the bench. But giving opinions that makes sense, constitutional.

BROWN: OK. I want to ask you about this New York Times reporting, President Trump paying zero federal income tax for 11 of the 18 years. In 2016 and 2017, he paid just $750 each year. What do you say to those Americans who are outraged over this? And as a businessman yourself before getting into politics, have you used the tax code the same way the President has laid out in this article?

BRAUN: Well, when it comes to anybody's tax return, I think the President now that it's out, we'll have to explain it accordingly. I know as being a business owner over the years, there were many years building a business where you didn't have much income. In fact, in my journey of 37 years being the CEO of the company I started, hardly ever did we have income that would be measurable until later on.

And I think everyone's return is different. If you've got a business that's got a lot of depreciation, non-cash expenses, it sometimes can end up that way. That'll be for the President to explain.

You know, I think when I look, as a business owner, and I can say this unequivocally. Now, what happened with tax policy back in 2017 has driven the economy be the best one that we've had in my 37 years. I'll be more focused on that, the President will talk about his own return.

BROWN: And there is the question of the President, and then if this is just something in the tax law that should be addressed when you have the average American paying more than $12,000 in taxes in 2017, and you find out the President paid only 750.

[16:50:06]

I want to ask you, just given all of the rhetoric around the election and the integrity over the election, will you commit that you will accept the certified results of this election over the President's words, if the outcome is not in his favor?

BRAUN: I will accept the results of the election. I don't think that's going to be an issue even though I think it's going to be a really close election. And we could have several situations that will be reminiscent of what happened in Florida years ago. I have full confidence in the American system that we will sort through it, and that there will be a validated winner. And whoever that is, will lead us for the next four years and whoever loses will accept it.

BROWN: So you will accept that, OK. Well, except the certified results. All right, Senator Mike Braun, thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on the show.

BRAUN: Good to be on.

BROWN: Well, he is the face of Russia propaganda and now he is sitting down exclusively with CNN to talk about President Trump and the upcoming election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:48]

BROWN: Turning to our "World Lead" now, the man dub Russia's propagandist-in-chief is giving us an exclusive window into what the Kremlin is likely thinking about the upcoming election. Russia's top state news anchor sat down with CNN's Matthew Chance to talk all things Trump and share if he thinks Biden would help or hurt the already complicated relationship between the US and Russia in his very first US television interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's been a distinct change in tone on Russian television about President Trump. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a very nice offer from President Putin. And I could have said, no, thank you, or I could have said thank you.

CHANCE: This spoof video on its English language channel, promoting US election coverage shows Trump was the loser taking up a job as a top Russian news anchor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I said I'll take it.

CHANCE: It's a humorous jab, but Trump's apparent affection for Russia. But the country's actual top state news anchor isn't laughing. His first ever us TV interview, the man dub the Kremlin's chief propagandist, tells me how hopes of blossoming US-Russian relations and the President Trump have vanished.

DMITRY KISELYOV, RUSSIA 1 ANCHOR: Russia has never had as many sanctions as it has under Trump, not a single state visit to Russia or to the United States. Is it your hope that if President Trump wins a second term, that things will change, that you might be able to have a more positive relationship with Moscow. Nothing will change. That's America.

CHANCE: But actually, things might change.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Be approached today, and Putin knows the reason he doesn't want me as president. He knows me, and he knows I mean it.

CHANCE: And Kiselyov sanctioned by the EU for spreading Kremlin propaganda, tells me a hard line Biden presidency could plunge US- Russian relations into a dangerous spiral.

KISELYOV: What will he do? Go to war against us? No way to win for him. But he said, let me repeat. Russia is the only country in the world with the capability to turn America into the radioactive ash.

CHANCE: With its vast nuclear arsenal that may be terrifyingly true. On Russia's flagship current affairs show, it's how America is already destroying itself. That's dominating coverage, the chaos and death shows the US has lost its moral leadership, Kiselyov says. For the Kremlin, accused by US intelligence of sowing discord, that may be a victory of sorts, no matter who the next President may be.

If you were forced to choose between a Trump presidency or a Biden presidency, which one would you go for? Talk in English, tell me which one would you go for?

KISELYOV: I would like to throw a coin, so nothing changes. Nothing will change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Pam, despite that acceptance that things are not likely to get better between Russia and the United States, no matter who's elected as president, it doesn't mean that Russia has stopped meddling in the US election, US intelligence officials say that Russia is still involved in trying to manipulate the outcome in favor of Trump, and against Joe Biden, Pam.

BROWN: And as you talk to people on the streets in Moscow, what are their thoughts on the US election?

CHANCE: Well, it's interesting because what I learned from that top state news anchors from a Kremlin point of view, they don't see any upside which ever person, whichever individual wins the presidency. And so, they're quite agnostic about it.

But if you speak to ordinary Russians, while they're still in that sort of 2016 mindset, that Trump is the man that backs Russia, and that Biden is not a friend of this country.

BROWN: All right. Matthew Chance live for us in Moscow. Thanks so much, Matthew. And I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. You can find me on Twitter @PAMELABROWNCNN or just tweet the show @TheLeadCNN. Our coverage continues right now.