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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL); Trump Under Fire; This Week: Disney, Goldman Sachs, & Airlines Cut 60,000+ Total Jobs; Trump to Hold Rally in Wisconsin Amid Massive COVID Surge. Aired 4- 4:30p ET

Aired October 01, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:07]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin with the 2020 lead.

After a day of campaigning and that disastrous debate Tuesday night, President Trump's team is hoping it will finally sink in with their boss that he didn't really do as well as he thinks he did, especially as more Republican officials continue to urge him to explicitly condemn white supremacists and the Proud Boys, a violent far right group.

For two consecutive days now, the president has been unwilling to give a declarative, definitive statement rejecting white supremacist views and rejecting white supremacist voters.

Instead, he's pointed to previous comments and continued to ratchet up bigoted rhetoric. Last night, for instance, the president repeatedly made comments attacking refugees, as well as Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, telling his supporters that Biden would -- quote -- "turn Minnesota into a refugee camp," and Congresswoman Omar -- quote -- "tells us how to run our country," once again falsely implying that the United States is not her country, despite the fact that Congresswoman Omar is an American citizen.

She came here as a war refugee herself as a child.

Now, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports, based on the behavior of the White House press secretary today, a refusal to explicitly condemn white supremacists and other far right bigoted groups such as the Proud Boys appears to now be the Trump administration policy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House press secretary was given three opportunities today to clearly denounce white supremacy and violent far right groups, but declined every single one.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: On the debate stage, the president was asked this. He said sure three times. COLLINS: President Trump said, sure, he would condemn both white

supremacy and far right extremists Tuesday night, but he never actually did.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.

COLLINS: The Proud Boys are a far right group that endorses violence and has since adopted President Trump's words as their new slogan.

(on camera): If someone denounced you, you probably wouldn't put it on a T-shirt make badges of it, right?

MCENANY: The president did denounce them. He was asked, will you tell them to stand down? He said sure, and went on to stand...

COLLINS: He said, stand by, which seems like an instruction.

MCENANY: He said, stand back, and then just yesterday, when he was asked, he said specifically, stand down.

COLLINS (voice-over): The president's own party continues to distance itself from his remarks, arguing he should be more forceful when it comes to white supremacy, a domestic threat that the FBI director has warned about.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Must the president say, in no uncertain terms, these groups aren't right, I explicitly call them out and condemn them? Should we hear those words from the president?

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): I think we should hear them from the president and from every American.

COLLINS: Tim Scott, the only black Republican in the Senate, said yesterday that the president should clarify if he made a mistake.

But, today, the White House says he didn't misspeak.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I think he misspoke in response to Chris Wallace's comment. He was asking Chris what he wanted to say. I think he misspoke. I think he should correct it. If he doesn't correct it, I guess he didn't misspeak.

MCENANY: When the president denounced white supremacy and said, sure, no, he did not misspeak.

COLLINS: Today, the White House was also asked if President Trump will still attend the next debate, since the commission that runs them is now considering changing the rules to minimize interruptions.

MCENANY: He wants to debate. He plans on being at the debate, but he wants the rules to be fair and wants a fair exchange, and doesn't want rules that cover for a certain candidate's inability to perform well.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COLLINS: Now, Jake, the president's campaign just held a call with reporters, going after the Commission on Presidential Debates, saying that they do not believe they are nonpartisan, as, of course, they tout themselves as a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that organizes these debates.

And they said they do not want any changes to happen before the second and third debate that they have agreed to, after, of course, you know that the CPD put out a statement yesterday saying they are considering some kind of structural changes, so the debate doesn't look like what it did on Tuesday night.

And they said that the Biden campaign has suggested -- this is what the Trump campaign is saying -- putting in maybe opening and closing statements, less time for the open debate, more just a direct question from the moderators.

And they also said there was talk of a mute button, Jake. So, since they don't want any changes on the Trump campaign side, it's an open question of what this is going to look like and how they're going to resolve this, since, typically, both candidates agree to the rules that they're going to set.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Here now to discuss, Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois.

Senator, President Trump has now been given the opportunity multiple times to clean up his comments about white supremacist, who he never actually explicitly called out or said he didn't want their votes, as well as calling out the far right neo-fascist anti-Semitic group Proud Boys.

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Instead, he says this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: ... done in New York. Like they have done in New York. I just told you.

QUESTION: But do you denounce them? Do you denounce...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I have always denounced any form, any form, any form of any of that. You have to denounce.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "Any form of any of that," but not specifically condemning what was being asked about.

What's your response? SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Utter disgust.

The president of the United States needs to condemn white supremacy.

Listen, I'm not surprised, though. I mean, you're talking about Donald Trump, the same guy who wouldn't condemn white supremacy in Charlottesville, and who, by the way, when he was a candidate in 2016 pretended that he did not know who David Duke was, former grand wizard of the KKK.

So it's not surprising. It's disgusting. It's especially disgusting when you think about the fact that this is the commander in chief of the United States military, right? And I think about all of our troops of color who are serving right now who have a commander in chief who refuses to condemn white supremacy. It's not acceptable.

TAPPER: And you represent Illinois, which has its own history of Nazis, neo-Nazis, in that state.

The FBI and Department of Homeland Security say that racially motivated violent extremism is one of the deadliest threats we face in the U.S., specifically among racially violent extremism, far right white supremacist exactly -- specifically.

What would you like to see done about this threat?

DUCKWORTH: Well, first and foremost, we need a new president, right? We need a president who's actually going to condemn white supremacy.

And, by the way, this president has stoked racial divisions in this country. We have seen an increase in all sorts of violence that is racially motivated ever since Donald Trump became president. We have seen it against blacks. We have seen it against Jews. We have seen it against Muslims. We have seen it against Asian Americans.

And they have been -- everything that he can do to divide us as a nation, Donald Trump has worked very hard to stoke those divisions.

And so I want to see the president of the United States condemn white supremacy. But then I also want a president of the United States who is going to lead us out of this global pandemic that we're in, one who is going to reunite us, and then -- and also get us out of the economic crisis that we're in, a real leader who can be a true commander in chief to our military.

We don't have that in Donald Trump, and we will in Joe Biden.

TAPPER: I have noticed that there are some in the Democratic Party who harbor anti-Semitic -- I mean, Democratic officials specifically and Democratic activists who harbor anti-Semitic views.

Louis Farrakhan has allies in Congress. Is it important for Democrats -- and, obviously, based on what the FBI says, it's not as big a threat. So I don't want there to be any questions about equivalence in terms of the threat, but should Democrats call those individuals out as well? DUCKWORTH: Well, I condemn all form of racial violence. I personally

condemn white supremacy. I condemn violence and anti-Semitism.

I think that we, as a nation, are stronger when we come together. Our diversity makes us stronger. And the divisions and this nation that this president continues to stoke does not help us emerge from this pandemic. We have lost 200,000 American lives so far. We have at least another seven million who are COVID-positive, and still a president who does not do anything to help us lead -- lead us out of multiple crises he's led us into.

TAPPER: At a rally last night in Minnesota, Trump renewed attacks on freshmen Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What is going on with Omar? I have been reading these reports for two years about how corrupt and crooked she is.

Let's get with it. Let's get with it.

How the hell -- then she tells us how to run our country. Can you believe it? How the hell did Minnesota elect her? What the hell is wrong with you people?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "Tells us how to run our country."

Now, people can take issue with Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's views or her politics or individual remarks she's made that have been offensive. But the idea that this isn't her country, what's your reaction?

DUCKWORTH: This is typical of Trump and his supporters.

I mean, we recently saw them attack me and question my lineage in this country, whereas my family has served in uniform going back to the Revolution. This is what they do. They create others.

This president, his bread and butter is to create divisions within us, to turn us against each other. And we cannot allow that to happen. We cannot let him appeal to the worst instincts, especially in a time of crisis.

This is what authoritarian regimes do. This is what dictators do. This is what failed despots do. They find scapegoats to distract you from the real issues at hand. And the real issues are, this president is responsible for leading us into a failed response to a global pandemic that has now resulted in 200,000 dead Americans.

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What does he -- Donald Trump want to distract us from? He wants to distract us from the fact that Americans right now can't pay their mortgage, can't pay their rent, don't have jobs. Our economy has tanked. And he still hasn't done anything.

So, don't play his game and don't let him distract you from the real issues at hand. We are not better off as a country today than we were four years ago. We have a chance for change, and people need to vote on November 3.

TAPPER: A quick question for you.

Judge Amy Coney Barrett is meeting with Republican senators today for the third straight day. You voted against her confirmation for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. You say you plan on voting the same way for her nomination to the Supreme Court.

Shouldn't you sit down with her first before deciding?

DUCKWORTH: Well, she's made it very clear in her support for groups that are against women's reproductive choices.

I will tell you, though, that the previous two Trump nominees refused to sit down with me. And so let me just tell you, I -- her support for groups in this latest report that say that the fertilized egg is a human life and that doctors who perform fertility treatments that may result in the destruction of a fertilized egg should be charged with a crime, I cannot support that.

My daughters -- my daughters were created with in vitro fertilization. And for her to supportive group that would say that my doctor, in creating my precious beautiful two girls, could be charged with manslaughter because one of those fertilized eggs was not viable is not acceptable.

And I'm going to -- you know what? It's not just about talking to her. It's about me talking to my colleagues on the Senate floor. I'm going to go and find all those Republicans who, when I brought my Maile Pearl onto the Senate floor at 9 days old, and they cooed over her and they hugged her and they thought how great it was to have the first baby on the United States Senate floor, I'm going to talk to them and say, if she -- this nominee has her way, there would be no more Mailes.

My daughter could not exist, because we would be putting my fertility doctors and the doctors who provide the hope of families, to create families and have children, they would put those doctors in jail. And I will not let that happen.

TAPPER: Senator Tammy Duckworth, Democrat of Illinois, thanks so much for your time, as always.

While Democrats pounce on President Trump, we will look at the danger Joe Biden might face from his own party.

Plus: why coronavirus may be making America sicker even among those who never get the disease.

Also ahead: what may be the worst day of job losses ever for one particular industry. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our money lead today, with Congress stalled on stimulus relief plan for coronavirus, businesses continue to close down and lay off workers and at an incredible clip.

Just this week, retail store H&M announced they are closing 250 stores, 250. Disney is cutting 28,000 jobs mainly at their theme parks.

And with airline travel down 70 percent from this time last year, United and American Airlines today announced job cuts for 32,000 employees. Delta CEO also telling CNN that nearly 2,000 of their pilots may be at risk of layoffs.

CNN's Pete Muntean joins me now.

Pete, 32,000 job cuts between two major airlines. What does this signal about the future of air travel?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It is not a good sign for the airline industry, Jake. And that reality is setting in for tens of thousands of airline employees now furloughed. You know, they lobbied Congress for months for an extra $25 billion to avoid this October 1st furlough deadline by an extra six months. What's so interesting now is that airlines are saying if Congress can get its act together in the next few days, it will recall employees back from the unemployment line.

Here are the latest number from airlines: American Airlines says it's furloughed 19,000 employees effective today, 13,000 at United Airlines. The total when you consider smaller and regional, more than 50,000 furloughs industry-wide.

They are pilots. They are mechanics. They are gate agents. They are flight attendants like Allie Malis, an American Airlines flight attendant, for about nine years. She's one of the 9,000 American Airlines flight attendants now without a job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLIE MALIS, AMERICAN AIRLINES APFA FLIGHT ATTENDANT: I'm trying not to cry today, trying to hold it together because we still have an opportunity to get this done, two press undo. We have an opportunity to fix this before the ripple effect takes ahold on the whole, entire economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Just to put this all in perspective, the furloughs at American Airlines alone, those people could nearly fill Capital One Arena here in Washington, D.C. this could be the single worst day of job losses in the entire history of aviation -- Jake.

TAPPER: Pete Muntean, thank you so much for that sobering report.

And our health lead with states easing restrictions and the cold weather moving in states that flattened their curve are once again seeing spikes as CNN's Nick Watt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wisconsin is in trouble. Average case counts climbed to stunning 300 percent just the past month. Look at that line?

DR. ASHISH JHA, BROWN UNIVERSITY: This is not the time to be holding a rally in Wisconsin.

WATT: The president had planned two of his notoriously unmasked MAGA rallies this weekend in Wisconsin. The one in Lacrosse was just canceled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in a very severe situation with COVID.

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WATT: Unclear what's happening with the one in Green Bay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Currently, one hospital out of the four in Green Bay has more patients than the entire city had at our peak in April.

WATT: More than half of states are right now heading in the wrong direction. Average new case counts climbing. New York now seeing spikes in at least 20 zip codes, most in New York City.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: There are increases primarily in Brooklyn. A cluster today can become community spread tomorrow.

WATT: Reopening the city schools goes on for now, but kids do spread this virus among themselves, so says a large new study out of India, which found young and middle aged adults are the primary source of community spread.

Up in Boston, after a rise in new cases, many among college students, they just pump the brakes on reopening some businesses and won't allow bigger gatherings.

MAYOR MARTY WALSH, BOSTON: You want to be treated as adults, well, then act it.

WATT: Meanwhile, AstraZeneca's vaccine trials still on hold in the U.S., paused after an illness of a volunteer in the U.K. The FDA can't or won't explain why.

STEPHEN HAHN, FDA DIRECTOR: I can't speak to confidential, commercial information. WATT: Moderna says it probably won't have enough data to file for

emergency use authorization until late November. So after the election. The CEO their vaccine likely won't be widely available until the spring despite what the president claims.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be very, very soon and before the end of the year. Maybe sooner than that.

WATT: New research posted online concludes this man, our president --

TRUMP: It's like a miracle. It will disappear.

Hydroxychloroquine, try it.

We're rounding the corner on the pandemic.

WATT: This man was likely the largest driver of the COVID-19 misinformation infodemic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, the White House gave us a statement about that study and it reads in part, this study could not be further from the proof. The president's message has been consistent from the beginning: resilience, hope, optimism.

Ironically that statement is not entirely accurate. And, Jake, we just heard that MAGA rally planned in Wisconsin for Lacrosse has been moved to Janesville. The campaign said nothing to do with COVID, it was a lease issue on the venue -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick, resilience, hope, and optimism, the study wasn't about whether the president was promoting resilience, hope, optimism, it was about whether he shared misinformation, which he did over and over and over.

WATT: Yeah, correct.

TAPPER: All right.

WATT: He did, Jake. He did on so many things, and it can cost lives. Misinformation can cost lives.

TAPPER: Indeed. Nick Watt, thank you so much.

CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining us.

Sanjay, President Trump planning to hold a rally in Wisconsin, which is seeing massive spikes and deaths and hospitalizations. And the ignorance is not just the president's. Take a listen for vice chairman for the Republican Party in Brown County which is a red zone and where a Trump rally is set to be held.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY WILLIAMS, VICE CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF BROWN COUNTY: If you're coming to take whatever precautions you need to be safe. I don't have a reason to wear a mask. I'm not sick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I don't have a reason to wear a mask. I'm not sick.

I mean, that's a local leader of the Republican Party. Your thoughts?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if he doesn't know at this point. That would be hard to believe, how this virus spreads. I mean, he's an elected leader. Presumably, he's knowledgeable. Or he maybe he really doesn't know. You know, I'm just not sure at this point, Jake. So many months in, we're still talking about same things you and I had deep conversations about back in February and March.

He said two things. One, no need to wear a mask. I mean, look, we said over and over again, the effectiveness of masks, we can show data, sometimes people like numbers.

If you wear a mask and have virus number, what's the likelihood you'll transmit it versus not wearing it. It's not a six-fold difference there. It's not perfect but it can make a big difference. He also said he's not sick. Therefore, he doesn't need to wear a mask.

And again, Jake, I hope people know this by now, but 45 -- 40 to 45 percent of the spread of this virus is from people who don't have any symptoms. So, you know, again, I don't know if he doesn't know, or what, but those are just two false statements.

TAPPER: Yeah, I mean, at a certain point, whether it's willful ignorance or just sheer stupidity, it doesn't matter, still a health menace.

GUPTA: Yeah, that's right.

TAPPER: We're entering final month before the election. So, it's unlikely the president is going to slow down on the campaign trail. In fact, I'm sure, he's going to get more active.

Do you think these rallies are potentially super spreaders?

GUPTA: Yeah, I do. We know this is a very contagious virus. I mean, that hasn't changed. Nothing magical has changed about the virus.

It spreads from person-to-person. It likes to do that, likes to find lots of hosts. You know, it is true that being outdoors is going to be better than being indoors.

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We know that, but there's lots of factors that go into this.

How close are the people around you? Virus can jump person-to-person. How long are you next to these people? Is it longer than 15 minutes.

And then, of course, are you wearing a mask. So, all these factors make a difference. Outside better but not if you're not doing these other things as well, which you're not.

TAPPER: And then a study released by the Cornell Alliance for Science found that President Trump was likely the largest driver of the COVID- 19 misinformation, what they call an infodemic.

You and I have been debunking the president's claims about this since February, literally since February. But now you have a quantitative analysis of it.

GUPTA: Yeah.

TAPPER: The president of the United States holding rallies in which he's probably putting or definitely putting his supporters at risk, at the very least, and also the leading purveyor of misinformation according to this study.

GUPTA: The president of the United States, the biggest source of misinformation in the middle of a pandemic. I mean, I -- it blows the mind. The study I looked at it, Jake, 36 to 38 percent of misinformation is coming from one person, the president of the United States.

Some of the most common themes of the misinformation had to do with these miracle cures, really promoting things like hydroxychloroquine but also bleach and U.V. light. It has real world sort of impact, Jake. You know, a mask is the biggest thing.

We can see the data around this. They say that 48 percent of people, roughly half the country, has at least one misconception regarding coronavirus still. Twenty percent wearing a mask actually poses a health risk to them and 16 percent believes they don't help reduce spread.

I think it's even higher than that, Jake. But, clearly, it has an impact, this infodemic.

TAPPER: A Trump administration officials told CNN that in the early days of the pandemic, there was a fight in the White House over whether or not to wear a mask, because, quote, if you have the whole West Wing running around wearing masks, it wasn't a good look. This is a Trump administration official.

What's your response?

GUPTA: Well, you know, my response goes back to the same thing. We know that this is a contagious virus. It spreads indoors, especially in closed quarters, poorly ventilated areas.

I think what really struck me about this, Jake, going back to recordings with Bob Woodward February 7th. He's saying, we know this thing is airborne. We know this thing is a killer. You know, we know this thing can spread.

And then after that saying people --

TAPPER: Deadlier than the flu. GUPTA: Right. Deadly, yeah, not (ph) as deadly as the flu. You know,

all that sort of stuff. And then after that he's saying people don't need to wear masks.

He knew the evidence at that time, probably ahead of many of the medical journals. So -- and then you're telling people, even people within your workspace that you don't need to wear masks or it was frowned upon, it just doesn't make sense. I mean, you know, politics almost aside, like that's your own health at that point you're talking about, the health of your staff, people that, you know, work with you. It just -- you know, it doesn't make sense.

TAPPER: Yeah, people in the White House have gotten the virus. Thankfully we don't know if anybody --

GUPTA: Yeah.

TAPPER: -- is seriously injured. I mean, it's just -- I wish that you and I, what we've been talking about since February, I wish we had been proven wrong this whole time. You know, I wish we were looking back at the days that we were alarmists.

GUPTA: Right.

TAPPER: But everything we've been talking about, the president not taking seriously enough, the job losses coming if we didn't really seriously stop to slow the spread, the testing. Everything happened the way we said.

GUPTA: Yeah.

TAPPER: And I wish we were wrong. I wish it were so.

GUPTA: I do -- I do, too, Jake. One of the things that really stuck with me I think going back to February, I think it may have been Dr. Fauci or somebody who said, if you feel in the middle of a pandemic that you are overreacting, it feels like the way I'm overreacting, it probably means you're reacting the right amount.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GUPTA: It's the nature of the pandemic. You can get so quickly behind the curve that you don't even know what happened. You've got to react quickly. And we didn't, you know, for a month, maybe even five weeks.

TAPPER: Still not. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joe Biden said he is the Democratic Party. Bernie and AOC supporters have entered the chat. Does the nominee risk angering many on the left to ease fears that Trump is yelling to the right?

Stay with us.

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