Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Biden Tries to Toe the Line Between Moderate & Far-Left Dems. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired October 01, 2020 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:52]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our 2020 lead, Joe Biden says he alone is the Democratic Party as he tries to distance himself from some of the more progressive proposals from fellow Democrats such as Medicare-for- All or the Green New Deal. But by refusing to give the left what they want, does Biden risk alienating voters that he needs to turn out and vote for him?
CNN's MJ Lee takes a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your party wants to go socialist medicine --
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The party is me.
TRUMP: -- and socialist healthcare.
BIDEN: Right now, I am the Democratic Party.
TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe, you know that.
BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now.
MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the final stretch of the 2020 presidential election, Joe Biden standing firm on his vision for the Democratic Party. The former vice president repeatedly labeled a radical left candidate by President Trump, including at this week's presidential debate.
TRUMP: Radical left Democrats.
It was a radical revolution that was taking place.
Radical left.
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: The question -- will you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Listen, who --
LEE: Biden clashed with several progressive rivals during the Democratic primary, including Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.
BIDEN: Bernie labeled himself, not me, a Democratic socialist
[16:35:01]
I think that's the label that the president is going to lay on everyone running with Bernie if he's a nominee.
LEE: Biden explicitly rejecting some of the most popular policy proposals championed by big name progressives like Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, on issues ranging from health care.
BIDEN: I did not support Medicare-for-All, I do not support it now. I support the Biden plan that I've laid out.
LEE: To climate change.
BIDEN: The Green New Deal that the president keeps trying to talk about is not a bad deal but it's not the plan I have, it's the Biden green deal.
LEE: Biden also rejecting calls from some liberals to defund the police, as police killing of black people have fueled racial tensions across the country.
BIDEN: I'm totally opposed to defunding police officers.
LEE: And dismissing Trump's repeated warnings that Biden sympathizes with violent rioters.
BIDEN: Ask yourself, do I look like a radical socialist with a soft spot for rioters? Really?
LEE: The progressive leaders haven't fired back, largely holding back public criticism as they focus on defeating Trump next month and emphasizing areas of common ground instead.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeting this week that she is eager to work with Biden and set aside our differences.
BIDEN: I'm not worried about losing the left, right, or center of the party, this is a big party. But I have one of the most progressive records any Democrat has run on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: Another issue that Donald Trump has repeatedly questioned Joe Biden on is the issue of court packing. This idea is, of course, the idea of putting more justices on the Supreme Court if Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed under President Trump's watch. Some progressives have put the pressure on Joe Biden to commit to doing this. He has previously said that he's opposed to the idea of court packing. And recently, he said that he's not going to answer this question or even engage in it because he thinks no matter what he says, it is going to be a distraction -- Jake.
TAPPER: Yeah, he's refused to answer the question. MJ Lee, thanks so much.
Joining us now to discuss, CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, and the executive director of Justice Democrats, Alexandra Rojas.
Alexandra, let me start with you. As the head of a progressive organization, do you think progressive voters who did not turn out for Hillary Clinton in 2016, those who didn't, do you think that they will turn out for Joe Biden this year?
ALEXANDRA ROJAS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Trump wants to play these ridiculous games like gotcha, you and Bernie disagree as if the primary didn't happen, but, you know, I think that Joe Biden could maybe continue to articulate his ideas a little bit better. But the reality is what's at stake is fascism or as AOC says letting democracy live another day.
So, I think Joe Biden, just like every single Democrat, can't take any vote for granted, especially voters under 45. But we understand what's at stake.
I disagree with Joe Biden on many issues. A lot of people would describe myself as a leftist and Justice Democrats. But this is about what we can accomplish together as a party and as a country.
And right now, Donald Trump at the helm of it is showing through that debate that they are completely bankrupt of ideas, they are cowards and they are actually afraid to solve some of our biggest problems.
And Joe Biden has worked with folks like the Sunrise Movement with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to increase over 20 years his previous climate plan to move it up to 2035 in terms of net zero carbon emissions, which is huge. And the fact, you know - throughout history, right, it's never been folks just waking up, it's been social movements of our past.
Even if he doesn't want to say it, our movements have really shaped this conversation and this debate and we are ready to beat Donald Trump.
TAPPER: And, Nia, regardless of how much truth there is to it, the way that Republicans are going at Joe Biden -- I saw Ted Cruz with some kind of hacking meme that he put out about a train driven by Ocasio-Cortez and other, quote-unquote, leftist, Republican Jewish coalition airing in Florida, which is like, you know, come for Joe Biden but stay for all the wacky liberals that he ties himself to. That's how they're doing this.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Right. TAPPER: Do you think it's effective?
HENDERSON: You know, we don't know yet. I mean, you know that this has been a familiar tactic of Republicans, almost no matter what the Democrat policies are, no matter who the Democrat is. You covered Obama, I covered Obama.
You can -- you know, countless number of times Republicans call him a socialist. With Joe Biden, there's something different here. They don't call him a socialist but tying him to people like AOC, people like -- who are in the squad, Bernie Sanders.
But I think it's nor difficult because in manner, bearing, Joe Biden is a moderate. He's a centrist. His legacy, what he ran on, obviously, in the primary.
He's also a white male who is in his 70s. So, it's I think it's much harder for them to do that with Joe Biden. On the one hand, they're trying to say his policies are socialist and radical and left, but they are also trying to say, you know, it's really the policies of AOC who is really going to be running the government, which I think is a much harder argument to make to voters.
You do see some penetration of this notion of Joe Biden having socialist ideas in some communities, particularly in Florida with Latinos who might be from socialist countries. So there you see it working. But, overall, I think it's harder for them to do that with Joe Biden.
TAPPER: And, Alexandra, Joe Biden is -- he's basically refusing to answer the question whether asked by reporters or by Chris Wallace during the debate about whether or not he would embrace two ideas pushed by progressives, getting rid of the Senate filibuster, if he would support that, or adding seats to the Supreme Court if Judge Barrett becomes Justice Barrett.
Now, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board writes, quote: Millions of voters dislike Mr. Trump's divisive behavior in office but their fear about Mr. Biden is that he'll refuse to stand up to the pressure prosecute the left, if he won't tell voters that he's willing to stand up to his party on something as radical as court packing, maybe that's because he's really a figurehead.
What do you make of this argument? And do you understand why he's not answering questions about these things and does it disappoint you?
ROJAS: Well, I mean, look at what the Republican -- look at the situation that we're in right now. We have ignored -- they have taken over the courts essentially, up until the highest level of power. We've left that open for them to do.
And so, we're in a situation now that the absolute priority of any Democratic or elected official has to be to be able to protect United States of America and not bring us to the past. This is about moving towards the future. And we have a system, we are in desperate need of democracy reform, we are in desperate need of court reform. If that is not on the table, it is absolutely insane compared to the reality of what we're living in right now.
They are saying that they are going to put the Affordable Care Act a week after the election up on -- you know, to talk about the Supreme Court. I'm sure, Roe versus Wade is -- and other -- everything that we care about, not just as Democrats, but as civil liberties in this country is at risk. And I hope that every elected official fights like hell to stop that from happening.
TAPPER: Alexandra Rojas, Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you both. I really appreciate it.
If you felt like you needed to put on Tiger King, just to give back to some semblance of sanity after Tuesday night's debate, you're not alone. How Trump bulldozing his way through those 90 minutes could affect the way we all treat each other. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:03]
TAPPER: Continuing in our 2020 lead: The TV ratings for this week's presidential debate were lower than for the first debate four years ago, but they did rival the last Super Bowl.
And when 73 million viewers tuned in, they saw a lot of behavior by President Trump that his supporters call aggressive, and some critics are going so far as to call emotionally abusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know -- I don't know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown -- Hunter got thrown out of the military.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar.
(CROSSTALK)
D. TRUMP: Joe, you're the liar.
BIDEN: I just want to make sure...
(CROSSTALK)
D. TRUMP: Graduated last in your class, not first in your class.
(LAUGHTER)
D. TRUMP: You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I want to bring in Dr. Frank Fortunati. He's the vice chief of psychiatry at Yale New Haven Hospital and the medical director for its psychiatric division.
Doctor, I know that you can't diagnose someone from afar, but you are an expert on human behavior. And you, like the rest of us, witnessed what we all did Tuesday night.
I have heard some critics describe President Trump's behavior, the constant interrupting, the personal insults, the childishness, the projection, I have heard them describe it as emotionally abusive behavior.
Do you agree with that?
DR. FRANK FORTUNATI, YALE NEW HAVEN HOSPITAL: Jake, first, thanks for having me.
And, yes, I absolutely do agree with that. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to identify that behavior. And you see what's happening. It was so clear for us all to see.
He's constantly picking on what he perceives to be a weakness of others. And he searches for every opportunity to exploit that.
And with the clip you just played, there's many examples of him doing that. And I do believe it's abusive, and it's cruel.
TAPPER: The thing about people behaving that way, not even on a stage, but in a family or in a job, is that it has an impact on those around them.
I'm curious as to what you think about this. Take a listen to some of the comments made by the moderator, Chris Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: Sir, you will be happy. I'm about to pick up on one of your points to ask the vice president.
I'd like to continue with the issue of race. I promise we're going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment.
Mr. President, you're going to be very happy, because we're now going to talk about law and order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: This constant attempt by Chris Wallace to ingratiate himself with the abuser in this, how would you describe that?
FORTUNATI: Yes, I think it's quite -- it's enabling kind of behavior. It's clear that Chris is -- I don't know why Chris is setting it up that way, but it creates -- why was it necessary to set it up that way, unless someone was afraid of the reaction that they were going to receive from him?
I think, when folks are in an abusive relationship, you see other people tiptoeing around others, and to -- so as to not set the abuser off, to not cause an explosion.
[16:50:00]
And I would speculate, not knowing exactly why, but I would speculate that that's -- may have been a motivating factor there. Why was it necessary to frame a question for our president differently than he did for our vice president?
TAPPER: Yes, very differently.
And one of the ways that President Trump attacked Joe Biden was to say, whatever he was being criticized for, Biden would have been worse or Biden was guilty of it, not him.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: So don't tell me about this.
BIDEN: I'm happy to talk about this.
D. TRUMP: And if you were here, it wouldn't be 200. It would be two million people, because you were very late on the draw.
BIDEN: Late on the draw.
D. TRUMP: You didn't want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. You didn't want me to ban Europe, which was heavily infected.
WALLACE: All right, gentlemen ...
(CROSSTALK)
D. TRUMP: You would have been much later, Joe. Much later.
WALLACE: Mr. President -- Mr. President...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: This is -- I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but this seems like a classic case of projection.
FORTUNATI: Right. That's right.
And he's deflecting any responsibility from himself, that we have had over 200,000 Americans die from coronavirus. To not take any responsibility for that, and instead just make a totally unsupported claim that our vice president, were he president, would have done a worse job, that's absolutely projection. There's no doubt about that.
TAPPER: And it's National Substance Abuse Month -- Abuse Prevention Month, October.
And the first lady put out a video talking about the importance of addressing this issue. But the president's son Don Jr. is out there calling Hunter Biden, who has had struggles with dependence issues, he's calling him -- quote -- "Crackhead Hunter."
And then the president during the debate attacked Hunter Biden's drug problems, when Joe Biden was trying to discuss his late son Beau Biden. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: I don't know -- I don't know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown -- Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out, dishonorably discharged for cocaine use.
BIDEN: That's not true. He wasn't dishonorably ...
D. TRUMP: And he didn't have a job until you became vice president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He wasn't dishonorably discharged.
But, beyond that, as a mental health professional, what was your reaction to that stigmatizing of somebody who, as the vice president said, has struggled with drug abuse?
FORTUNATI: Jake, it was absolutely horrible, given what I do, what I see every day.
We're all under a tremendous amount of chronic stress and trauma in managing our response to the coronavirus. We imagine the economic impact of this.
Instead of doing what would really be very, very easy for him to do, which would be to try and rally us all around a common cause -- and that's fighting coronavirus and embracing that as all Americans -- instead, he's creating divisiveness among everyone.
One in 12 American adults has a substance use disorder. One in five American adults have had some struggle with mental illness. And it's like pouring salt in a wound. I have heard comments from colleagues that many folks just didn't watch it, because they didn't want to be retraumatized from hearing things like this.
It's very alienating. And these -- we're seeing more division, rather than bringing people together.
TAPPER: Dr. Frank Fortunati, thank you so much for your expertise and your time today. We really appreciate it.
Michelle Obama's nickname on the campaign trail was "The Closer." Could Jill Biden do the same for Joe?
A look at how candidates' spouses can help their husbands with their races.
Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:56:35]
TAPPER: In our Earth Matters series today, a warning to turn down the dial on how much we humans are polluting the air with greenhouse gases, worsening climate change before it's too late.
A new study in the "Nature" science journal says Greenland's ice sheet will melt faster this century than any time in the past 12,000 years, the difference now vs. then, of course, us, a lot more of us to pollute, a lot more of us planted firmly on the coasts as the ocean rises.
Greenland is home to the only permanent ice sheet outside of Antarctica and covers four-fifths of the territory.
In the 2020 lead: After that train wreck of a debate, first lady Melania Trump and Jill Biden joined President Trump and Joe Biden on stage, creating quite another clear contrast. And we saw very different body language in the two couples.
The moment is a reminder that voters not only elect a president, but a first family, on Election Day.
And, as CNN's Kate Bennett reports, spouses can wield a lot of influence both before and after an election.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Little more than a month from the election, and Melania Trump is still not making campaign appearances, not unusual for her. In 2016, she gave only a handful of speeches.
MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY: Donna's promised to campaign on behalf of those who feel the system is broken and does not work for them.
BENNETT: But, historically, Melania Trump is the exception, not the rule.
First ladies are typically a candidate's secret weapon, able to humanize a president and turn the tide of undecideds. Michelle Obama was so good at speaking about Barack Obama's achievements, she earned the nickname "The Closer" from campaign staff.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: I have seen firsthand that being president doesn't change who you are. No, it reveals who you are.
BENNETT: Spouses as speakers at the convention began in 1996. Influence of first ladies politically dates back to Eleanor Roosevelt, the first first lady to hold her own press conferences.
Even first ladies who sidestepped politics have been popular for presidential candidates, Jackie Kennedy, for example.
JACKIE KENNEDY, FORMER FIRST LADY: Perhaps you would tell me some of the issues that you think are the most important in this campaign.
BENNETT: In 1964, Lady Bird Johnson took a whistle-stop tour through the South, helping with voters after Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act. Though protested by angry constituents, Lady bird's determination and her own Southern roots were crucial to pulling her husband through.
LADY BIRD JOHNSON, FORMER FIRST LADY: Although you might not like at least you understand the way I say it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BENNETT: Political influence doesn't always stop after the election. Nancy Reagan was an active adviser to her husband, the Reagan's marriage one of the most compatible in the White House.
RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do get along and we...
(LAUGHTER)
NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: I'm glad to hear that.
BENNETT: Though things between first couples used to play out behind closed doors, when Melania Trump wanted her husband to part ways with a senior staffer, the president did as instructed.
QUESTION: Has he had people that you didn't trust working for him?
M. TRUMP: Yes.
QUESTION: Did you let him know?
M. TRUMP: I let him know.
QUESTION: And what did he do?
M. TRUMP: Well, some people, they don't work there anymore.
BENNETT: First ladies are often more complex than most people realize, and their roles more powerful.
Kate Bennett, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Our thanks to Kate Bennett.
CNN will debut a new original series called "FIRST LADIES" this weekend. You can watch it Sunday night at 10:00 Eastern here on CNN.
Our coverage on CNN continues right now.
I will see you tomorrow.
[17:00:00]
