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The Lead with Jake Tapper

President Trump Being Treated With COVID-19 Antibodies; Biden Tests Negative Following Debate With Trump. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:22]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today, of course, with the shocking news delivered in the wee small hours of the morning. President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for COVID-19, marking the greatest known health threat to a sitting U.S. president since Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981.

Both President Trump and first lady Trump are showing mild symptoms, we're told. And now there is a growing number of positive cases inside the White House.

Let me start by saying on our broadcast today that, of course, everyone here at THE LEAD is hoping for a full and speedy recovery for President Trump, first lady Melania Trump, Trump aide Hope Hicks, Republican Senator Mike Lee, the as-yet-unnamed White House staffer who sits in the West Wing, and, frankly, anyone out there who has contracted the deadly virus.

But we must acknowledge, President Trump has refused to abide by his own administration's health experts about how to avoid contracting this disease.

In recent months, and as recently as the debate Tuesday night, the president has mocked those who wear masks, even though the CDC director has said masks may be more effective than a vaccine when it comes to saving lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from them, and he shows up with the biggest mask I have ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Serious questions have been raised about the wanton disregard the Trump team has shown, not only to their own supporters, by continuing to hold packed rallies with no masks required, doing this for months, but the small crowd at the debate, where members of the Trump family and Trump campaign guests did not wear masks during the debate.

Some Trump guests, in fact, were offered masks by a Cleveland Clinic doctor, only to be turned down.

Now, there is evidence of disregard for the health and safety of others even after at least some in the White House learned that Trump aide Hope Hicks had tested positive and was, in fact, showing symptoms. She felt ill.

Even after that, President Trump flew to New Jersey, where he held a fund-raiser.

And the White House did not alert the Biden campaign that Hope Hicks or that President Trump had tested positive, even though the Trump team's actions at the debate put the Biden team at risk.

And now, again this morning, at the White House, which really, to be frank, is a potential hot zone of the virus, some of the president's advisers continued to not wear masks.

We all sincerely wish the best for everyone at the White House battling this cruel and potentially deadly disease. But they continue to put others at risk, not only by setting bad examples, not only by failing in the pandemic response, but now quite literally as carriers of the virus, exposing not just fellow officials and senators or journalists or donors, but exposing the flight crews of Air Force One and Marine One, members of the military, or the waiters and support staff at Bedminster in New Jersey.

Make no mistake, this was not just reckless behavior. This was a demonstration of a wanton disregard for human life.

President Trump, now in quarantine, has become a symbol of his own failures.

What's still not clear, how many other people in Trump's orbit have been infected. But White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows conceded that some staffers knew Hope Hicks was positive before the president's fund-raising trip to New Jersey yesterday, and they went anyway, potentially spreading a disease from Washington, D.C., to a different state.

Let's go straight to CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, who on earth signed off on the president, after close contact with somebody who has the virus and is symptomatic, Hope Hicks, who signed off and said it's OK for him and his aides to go meet other people, go meet donors in New Jersey?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, earlier, the White House press secretary blamed White House operations for that decision, saying they are the ones who deemed it OK for the president to still go to that fund-raiser in New Jersey anyway, Jake, though, typically, that's an office that typically deals with things like bad weather calls, if the president's going to take the motorcade back or helicopter back, things of that nature. They don't actually make decisions like this about whether or not the

president can go somewhere.

[16:05:03]

And when she was asked this question, it was notable, she did not cite any medical experts who gave the president the OK to get on a plane without wearing a mask with other officials, a trip where some officials were pulled off of it.

And so it is just one of many circumstances Jake, that is surrounding this incident that is only raising more questions than it's answering.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (voice-over): President Donald Trump is showing mild symptoms after testing positive for coronavirus early this morning.

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: As all you know, the president the first lady tested positive for COVID-19. They remain in good spirits.

COLLINS: Trump and the first lady or quarantining in the White House residents after it was publicly revealed that top aide Hope Hicks tested positive within hours of traveling with the president.

Despite the uptick of positive cases in the White House, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows updated reporters today without a mask.

MEADOWS: What you have is a virus that is contagious, that certainly continues to be, regardless of whatever protocol we have.

COLLINS: The president's schedule was scrubbed of all public activities, and the campaign canceled all in-person events for the foreseeable future.

At the White House today, aides struggled to explain why the president continued with his schedule yesterday, despite learning that Hicks had tested positive.

MEADOWS: In terms of hope Hope, Hope Hicks, we discovered that right as the Marine One was taking off yesterday. We actually pulled some of the people that have been traveling and in close contact.

COLLINS: Trump hosted a fund-raiser in New Jersey that was both indoors and outdoors, where attendees were not told that he had been around someone who had tested positive.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It was deemed safe for the president to go. He socially distanced. It was an outdoor event and it was deemed safe by White House operations.

COLLINS: Vice President Mike Pence received a negative result today. And in a memo, his doctor said he is not considered a close contact of President Trump's and does not need to quarantine, even though Pence said he was in the Oval Office with Trump just three days ago. MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can tell you, I

left the president earlier today in the Oval Office. And he's ready.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

PENCE: We're ready.

COLLINS: The vice president is still slated to travel to Salt Lake City next week, ahead of his scheduled debate with Senator Kamala Harris.

Word of a top aide to the president testing positive only broke because it was published in the media. The White House did not inform reporters until the president confirmed it during an interview with FOX News.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know Hope very well. She's fantastic. And she's done a great job. But it's very, very hard when you are with people from the military or for law enforcement. And they come over to you, and they want to hug you, and they want to kiss you.

But she's a very warm person with them. And she -- she knows there's a risk. But she's young.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, as we're learning about these new cases inside the White House, we are now told that a lower-level staffer in the press shop has tested positive.

Three White House reporters have tested positive. Two of them were at that event on Saturday for the Supreme Court nominee, where the president was announcing his pick.

And earlier today, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, said she got tested out of an abundance of caution after meeting with the Treasury secretary earlier this week on stimulus talks. And her spokesperson has just tweeted that she did in fact test negative, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much.

Here to discussing, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, we know most people, if they're going to get sick, do so around five to six days following exposure. Now that Trump has tested positive and is showing some symptoms, according to the White House, although we have yet to hear from a doctor from the White House, we should note -- and that is needed, a real doctor, not an oral surgeon.

People want to know what happens next. So what happens to Trump now, assuming that he was exposed a few days ago?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is really going to have to do with his clinical symptoms. That's going to drive the decision-making in terms of what's happening with the president, where he should be.

Should he stay at the White House? They have, obviously, facilities, medical facilities, there, or is there enough concern that he needs to be in a hospital? And that's got to be a clinical judgment. And I hope that they're taking that seriously, as you're sort of alluding to, Jake.

And let's put the timeline up here for you, because you're exactly right, in terms of time of exposure to time that people would develop significant symptoms requiring hospitalization, if they do. Again, most people don't.

But, typically, it basically is, as you point out, five to six days, at least. After that, it can be a few weeks, even, a couple of weeks of treatment that people may need if they get that sick.

So, you remember with Boris Johnson, Jake?

TAPPER: Yes, of course.

GUPTA: He tested positive. I don't know. We can show this timeline, if we have that. But he tested positive.

[16:10:01]

And then it was several days later, I think five or six days later, that he ended up going to the hospital, spent a week in the hospital and three nights in the ICU.

So, point is, you have got to be vigilant about this. You can be doing OK. You got to stay very much on top. The president's pulse oximetry, his blood oxygenation needs to be monitored even at the White House. Sometimes, people can drop their blood oxygenation and still feel fine.

But that would be an indication for the doctors that he needs some kind of care.

TAPPER: And let me be precise about what I was talking about when I refer to an oral surgeon.

Obviously, the president should be seeing an infectious disease expert. Throughout this crisis, the president has found other M.D.s, an oral surgeon who spoke at the convention. He -- his favorite doctor on the Coronavirus Task Force. Dr. Scott Atlas, is a neuroradiologist.

These might be brilliant people in their field, but they are not experts on infectious disease. That's what I'm talking about.

And I assume you think he should be seeing somebody who is an expert on infectious disease?

GUPTA: Yes, no question about it.

And, frankly, as has happened historically, when the president gets sick or needs some kind of medical care, typically, some of the best respective doctors in their fields come to offer opinions and help even brief the public on what's going on. This has happened in the past with Eisenhower, with Reagan, people like Rochelle Walensky, or Jeanne Marrazzo from University of Alabama.

These -- we have incredible services here. And he needs to be getting -- hearing those opinions from these doctors at this point. I don't know what's happening. We don't -- as you point out, don't even know if he has symptoms.

The summary that we got was a very carefully worded, somewhat opaque summary of his diagnosis. So, yes, he needs to be getting that kind of care.

TAPPER: So, moving on from that, let's talk about coming in contact with somebody who's sick and has tested positive and then, instead of immediately quarantining, going out and spreading this, potentially, to other people.

When the White House found out about Hope Hicks' positive diagnosis before Marine One took off for a fund-raiser in New Jersey, what should the White House have done?

GUPTA: This is very clear. I mean, this isn't subtle.

I talked to several people, including people responsible for drafting these guidelines. If you have come in contact with someone with COVID -- we can show the guidelines. If you have come in contact with somebody, you need to be quarantined, OK? You have to basically treat yourself as someone who should be quarantined.

And that's regardless of whether you have a negative test, because, as you know, as we were just talking about Jake, you could develop a positive test several days later, but still potentially be a source of spread.

So, a close contact -- if the president, for example, had a close contact with Hope Hicks within six feet for longer than 15 minutes, the guidelines from the CDC, from the public health officials very clear, at that point, you need to be quarantined. So that shouldn't have -- absolutely should not have happened, and, as you point out, potentially put other people at risk.

TAPPER: So, we just got a letter from Kayleigh McEnany, the White House press secretary. It's a letter from a doctor. So, presumably, we can believe it, because it's not from her. It's from the doctor.

And it says that President Trump is being treated with Regeneron. Can you tell us about that?

GUPTA: So, Regeneron is the name of a company that actually creates a monoclonal antibody.

And I talked about this early this morning, in the middle of night, actually, about the possibility in someone who has minimal symptoms or even asymptomatic or presymptomatic, they could use -- basically giving the person antibodies, so you're giving them extra antibodies now to fight the infection.

It's very interesting. Now, there's just been really early data on this. If it is true, he's obviously getting this outside of a clinical trial, because everyone who's receiving this right now is in clinical trials.

So, it's -- this will be very interesting. I mean, there's three medications that have some sort of emergency use authorization. Remdesivir is one that we talked about many months ago, steroids, such as dexamethasone, and then this idea of providing immunity by giving antibodies.

So, this is very interesting, Jake, if this is true, to basically say that he is now -- at first, there's a level of concern enough that they're saying, we should go ahead and give antibodies to the president to help him fight the infection, and, two, that he's receiving this outside of a clinical trial, even outside maybe of an emergency use authorization.

I'm not sure under which guidelines he's getting it, but that would be -- that'd be pretty big news, Jake.

TAPPER: And let's talk about President Trump's health.

There are a bunch of Trump sycophants at a different network talking about how strong and vital and vigorous he is. Let's just call a spade a spade here.

President Trump is 74. That puts them in a high-risk group. He's a man. That puts him in a high-risk group. He's clinically obese, OK? And he's showing mild symptoms.

Now, we don't know his health records. We don't know about other medical conditions that potentially could put him into a high-risk group.

[16:15:01]

We know smoking is very dangerous. And I don't believe President Trump smokes cigarettes in any way. So that's at least one plus.

But looking at what we know about him, clinically obese, male, in his 70s. Doesn't lead a healthy lifestyle, let's be honest. He doesn't exercise, he doesn't eat healthy.

How -- how is his risk?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: His risk is significantly higher than a young, healthy person. That's how you sort of frame these relative risks. If you look at the obesity alone, looking at large chunks of data, you find that the risk of hospitalization is threefold higher because of obesity, because of his age, 65 to 74, the risk of hospitalization five times higher.

So, he -- there's definitely concern. As you point out, we still don't know his entire medical history. He had this strange visit to Walter Reed back in November. You know, I'm not just bringing this up because of political intrigue. That now has medical relevance. What happened there could influence now what happens now, and people should not ignore that.

Having said that, when you look at overall likelihood of him coming through this, you know, the chances are greater than 90 to 95 percent, you know? Mortality rate --

TAPPER: Right.

GUPTA: -- is still well below 10 percent even with those risk factors. But they can't ignore that. There's this opacity. Let's get him on a chopper, you know, let's keep him at the White House. Are they taking this seriously or not?

Because when you're having a respiratory virus and someone suddenly starts to have some difficulty breathing, you don't have a lot of time at that point. So they really got to be aggressive in terms of monitoring the president.

TAPPER: I mean, to state the obvious, they haven't taken this very seriously in all too many ways from the very beginning of this crisis. Although one would hope that when it hits home, they take it more seriously.

I want to read this. This is from the president's doctor, Sean Conley. He's the physician to the president. He's a commander in the U.S. Navy.

I release the following information with the permission of President Trump following PCR confirmation of the president's diagnosis as precautionary measure, he received a single 8-gram dose of Regeneron's polyclonal antibody cocktail. This is what we just discussed. He completed the infusion without incident.

In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the president has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin, and a daily aspirin. I guess he's been taking those ahead of time.

As of this afternoon, the president remains fatigued but in good spirits. He's being evaluated by a team of experts and we'll be making recommendations to the president and first lady in regards to the next best steps.

First Lady Melania Trump remains well with only a mild cough and headache, and the remainder of the first family are well, and tested negative for COVID.

What are your thoughts?

GUPTA: Well, you know, there's -- they're giving us more information here. I'm still curious as to what prompted the idea of giving the president this very new, experimental therapy, polyclonal, monoclonal antibodies.

It is -- it is a way of basically trying to bolster one's immune system. Everybody makes antibodies at some point in response to infection. If someone's not making enough antibodies, you can give them antibodies, which essentially is what this is.

The Regeneron study which came out just last week had 275 people in the study average age was 45. And what they found was that it was likely to shorten duration of symptoms and reduce the likelihood of needing hospitalization.

But, again, really small study. Average age 45. Does that extrapolate well to the president?

There is, what I'm reading into this Jake, there's a level of concern here.

TAPPER: Yeah, and --

GUPTA: They've going to head and decided to do this experimental therapy.

TAPPER: And they're also talking about further steps which suggest they don't necessarily think that what they're doing right now is sufficient. I think that's pretty clear.

GUPTA: Right.

TAPPER: And -- but I want to ask you another question before -- we're going to keep talking. We're going to bring in some political people to talk about things that you don't like to talk about, Sanjay. But one of them is -- one of the questions I have is, there are a bunch of people now who are more vulnerable members of societies, people who are housekeepers at Bedminster in New Jersey, people who are wait staff or bartenders or caterers for the event that the president attended in New Jersey, people who are maids and butlers at the White House, people who are members of the military and were on the flight crews for either Marine One or Air Force One.

And they can't necessarily rely upon the White House to give them the straight answer about what they should be doing right now. OK? I'm just -- I want those -- I want you to talk to those people. What do those people need to know? And is there a difference if they didn't come anywhere near President Trump or any of his aides, and if they did?

[16:20:03]

GUPTA: Yeah. Well, I'm glad you raised the point. First of all, the idea that this is a contagious virus spreads more easily indoors and if people are around you without masks on, and now clearly have been diagnosed, there is a risk there. Many of these people, if you -- if you wear masks, you're often doing it primarily to protect those around you. If other people aren't also wearing masks, it a little bit defeats the purpose here.

So, I can imagine there is a level of concern and anxiety, and then unlike, you know, people within the White House West Wing, if they can't get tested, now they're worried about taking it home to their families. So, I mean, this is real concern -- obviously a concern that many people in the country have been dealing with for a long time, you know, essential workers who have been doing jobs.

But now, they're in a position where clearly they're not being told the information of their potential exposures to the virus. And that's obviously of huge concern. You know, I don't know if there's going to be some testing plans in place for other staff or how that's going to work.

But people need to know have they been exposed, and if they have been exposed, they need to be quarantined. I mean, the whole point is to reduce the trajectory of this pandemic so quarantine yourself if you think you've been exposed, so at least you don't continue to spread it to others.

TAPPER: Go into a room if you're one of the bartenders or members of the military or White House staff, go into a room in your house, secluded from other people. Don't go to the emergency room necessarily because they don't necessarily want you coming and potentially spreading it there. But call a primary care physician. Call an emergency room and figure out what to do.

Let's bring in Abby Phillip and Ron Brownstein.

Sanjay, stick around with us.

Abby, hours before President Trump announced his test results at 1:00 in the morning, or whatever, he claimed that the end of the pandemic was in sight. He said this in virtual remarks to the Al Smith dinner.

Do you think this is going to change his approach to the coronavirus?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, I really hope so. I really don't know, but I really hope so. One of the things with President Trump is that he might, you know, if, Lord willing and we all hope he recovers quickly, recovers from this, he's been saying that for most people, this is mild.

And, yes, that is true, and I think Sanjay can speak more to this. But it is true that for most people it is mild. But he fails to emphasize to the public the real risk that is out there that we now face as a nation.

And, you know, President Trump's mind and his focus so much these days is on his political survival. I suspect he will try to spin this in as positive a light as possible so that his re-election prospects remain as intact as possible. But the broader imperative here, and this can not be understated, is that people need to understand the risks that they face and the things that they should be doing.

And what is going on at the White House is just a case study in how not to react when there is a case of coronavirus within a workplace, within an organization. It is a case study in how not to react when you've been exposed to someone who has this virus. I think that until the White House turns that around, I don't think that you can expect President Trump to be the one to do that. The entire institution needs to turn around their approach to this virus.

TAPPER: And the White House is not letting us interview health experts from the Trump administration to talk more about this. They're shutting that off.

Ron, I have to say Joe and Jill Biden, and we're expecting Joe Biden to speak at any moment. We'll bring that to you live. Joe and Jill Biden issued statements, or Joe Biden did and Kamala Harris did, rather, expressing concern for the president and first lady and wishing them well.

But I have to say I was stunned to find out that neither the Trump campaign nor the White House contacted Joe Biden or his campaign to say, hey, by the way, President Trump just tested positive, Hope Hicks tested positive, you need to know that because obviously there is a risk.

I mean, have you ever seen anything like that?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's one of the many things in these last three years that you would say would be astonishing, except it has become expected under what we have been living through. It would be astonishing for anyone else except for what the president said to Bob Woodward on tape.

I think this is just an incredibly revealing encapsulation of the fundamental calculation the president has had from the beginning. His priority from the outset has been to project as much normalcy as possible, what are the public health consequences. And that has not only been in his own behavior like we saw going to the fundraiser yesterday and putting his own donors at risk and holding these rallies. But it's also through the pressure he has exerted on Republican governors in states like Texas and Florida and Arizona to project normalcy at all costs which is a consequence in governors overriding -- invalidating local mask requirements --

[16:25:07]

TAPPER: Yeah.

BROWNSTEIN: -- forcing people to open schools and bars.

I mean, there is an attitude that we are seeing exemplified in the fundraiser, and the refusal to put on masks, it wasn't like a press advance asking them, it was officials from one of the world's elite medical institutions. It all goes back to the same route, Jake.

TAPPER: And we have some breaking news for you now. We're now told that President Trump has a fever as part of his coronavirus symptoms. A source confirms to CNN. The source says the president has had a fever since this morning. The White House doctor previously said the president was fatigued.

Let's bring in Sanjay.

Sanjay, so now we know a little bit more, the White House is still being fairly opaque. This is the kind of thing that you want to have. The president's physician go out and answer questions from the White House. But that's not what they're doing.

But we now know from sources that he has a fever and from the White House physician that he's fatigued. These are classic symptoms.

GUPTA: These are classic symptoms, Jake. But I think we're seeing an increasing level of concern here. As you point out, because of the opacity of what they tell us, we have to kind of decipher things a bit and try and read between the lines.

But there is -- there is an increasing level of concern. He has a fever. He has these symptoms. He's receiving an experimental therapy, these monoclonal antibodies from Regeneron. It's at the highest dose within these trials that have been given.

So, to me, they're telegraphing that there is a level of concern happening here. I don't know how significant, you know, early this morning the sense was he's totally fine, everything's going to be fine. But now we're hearing a different story starting to emerge here, the fever, the symptoms, the antibodies, sometimes those antibodies would be administered in a hospital so people could monitor to see if the person might have any kind of reaction to the therapy given that's an experimental therapy.

So, we're going to have to keep asking questions, Jake, because I think there's something sort of happening at the White House now among the medical team as they try to figure out how to best care for the president, where to best care for the president, what's going to happen over the next several hours and days.

TAPPER: And what are the symptoms that they should be on the lookout for? Obviously, a loss of taste and smell, that's more of a symptom, not necessarily something to be worried about. But that can come in -- that can accompany a basic desire to not -- a lack of desire to eat or drink. Obviously, lack of -- lung problems are a problem. Oxygenation of the blood is a problem.

What should these physicians be looking out here?

GUPTA: Yeah, those are the big ones. We have a list that we can put forth.

As far as when to sort of say this is a trigger where someone should not be at home anymore, we're talking about, you know, difficulty breathing, someone developing any kind of chest pain, something like that. If they start to lose -- if they become confused, something like that. If they have bluishness of the lips, I hope that the president is receiving what's called a pulse oximetry, which is a constant measurement of his blood oxygenation.

What we know from some of the early patients that were studied, that people can have a drop in their blood oxygenation, not recognize it themselves, but that can be a huge problem. So, these are all things again that, hopefully, they are looking out for this at the White House and at the slightest hint of something happening there, they -- he should be in a hospital at that point, because that's where they could best care for him and he has obviously a sweet setup at Walter Reed.

I think this is going to be a decision matrix, Jake, over the next -- I mean, now, it may be happening right now.

TAPPER: But a fatigue and a fever not enough. But some of these -- the chest pain, difficulty breathing, oxygenation issues, that's the trigger in your view?

GUPTA: Yeah. And, look, again, we have to read through the lines here. So now they're telling us fever and things. I always feel like they tell us things a little bit late and with a little bit less seriousness.

So, they're now admitting that he's having a fever. Are there other symptoms? Just what are his symptoms? Has he had any difficulty breathing? Is his blood oxygenation normal?

These are all very reasonable questions, and hopefully, again, I hope the White House medical unit is very, very diligent about monitoring these things.

He's also again getting this experimental therapy in the White House presumably. So, if that's the case, are they monitoring him for any sort of reaction to that therapy? Do they feel like they have everything within the White House medical unit to take care of a reaction to that therapy?

I mean, these are serious things. And obviously again you layer on top, he's 74 years old, he has this history of these pre-existing conditions that put him at higher risk. They've got to be very judicious here and not in any way sort of blow this off, Jake.

[16:30:00]