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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) Moving Ahead With Supreme Court Hearings; Interview With Gov. Phil Murphy (D-NJ); President Trump Set To Return To White House. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 05, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:31:29]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Joe Biden speaking right now in Miami, moments ago, speaking about President Trump, as President Trump prepares to leave Walter Reed Medical Center this evening.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My prayers continue to be with the president and the first lady for their health and safety, as they, like so many American families, are dealing with COVID-19.

I was glad to see the president speaking and recording videos over the weekend. Now that he's busy tweeting campaign messages, I would ask him to do this: Listen to the scientists.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Support masks. Support a mask mandate nationwide. Require masks in every federal building and facility and interstate travel, urge every governor, and mayor to do the same.

We know it saves lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This message from former Vice President Biden, as President Trump prepares to go back to the White House this evening, at his own insistence, even though doctors say he is not entirely out of the woods yet.

And since the president first tested positive on late Thursday evening, at least 13 others in his orbit have tested positive, in what is playing out in real time as a prime example of how fast and how far this virus can spread when proper distancing measures and masks are not taken.

Joining me now is head of the Infectious Diseases Division at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, Dr. Mark Rupp.

Dr. Rupp, good to see you again. Let's walk through this timeline. The president was diagnosed

Thursday. He had a fever and was given supplemental oxygen on Friday and took remdesivir and Regeneron. He was then taken to Walter Reed Medical Center, given an intense steroid and more oxygen on Saturday. And now he's going home?

Does that make any sense to you?

DR. MARK RUPP, CHIEF, UNMC INFECTIOUS DISEASES DIVISION: Well, it does seem to be just a little bit accelerated.

Clearly, the White House has extensive capability to care for the president on the confines of the White House. And I'm sure that that is partially driving the decision.

But, as you pointed out, the president has received three different medications for this disease, including some of those that are generally reserved for more severely ill individuals.

We also know that, when somebody contracts COVID-19, that the first five to seven days tends to be fairly critical, and that sometimes people can take abrupt turns for the worse even after five or seven days of illness. That's typically where we sometimes start to see deterioration.

So, I think the president's going to have to be and will be, obviously, very carefully monitored. And if he needs to get back to the hospital, I'm sure that his medical staff will do that.

TAPPER: Presumably, he's still infectious. Fauci said earlier today to CNN's John Berman, that he thinks that, from the moment somebody first gets symptoms, which, as far as we know, was last Thursday, you have to extend at least 10 days, at least 10 days, which would make it this coming Sunday.

Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh just told CNN the president intends to participate in the next debate, which is on October 15, 10 days from today.

Is that going to be safe for other people in the debate hall?

RUPP: Well, generally, there's two strategies in removing somebody from protective isolation. One is, as you have mentioned, a time limiter, in which people need to be at least 10 days from the onset of symptoms.

[16:35:00]

The other modality is to do testing. And if the president was tested with the sensitive PCR assays, and had at least two of those that were negative, it would be safe to bring him out of isolation.

However, it should be emphasized that, even under those conditions, it would be prudent for the president be wearing a mask, to be limiting contact as much as possible, make sure that he has very good physical distancing from others. People can intermittently be positive with these tests as well. And so

that's something that would need to be guarded against.

TAPPER: I want to get your opinion about how safe it is for President Trump to debate on October 15, not safe for President Trump, safe for Joe Biden, if he's in the same room with him.

And we have just learned that Vice President Pence, who also was in contact with a number of people who tested positive, although we're told Pence has tested negative, Pence and Senator Kamala Harris, we're told, will be separated by Plexiglas at Wednesday's debate. That's according to a source.

If you were advising Senator Harris, or if you were advising Joe Biden, would you say, Plexiglas is enough, that's fine, just be 10 feet away, 15 feet away, and do Plexiglas? Or would you suggest maybe you and your opponent, one of whom has COVID, the other one who has come in contact with somebody who has COVID, Pence, maybe they should -- maybe you should be in different rooms?

RUPP: Well, I think this does open up some interesting conversation.

Clearly, there are a number of principles that need to be followed. First is, the more distance, the better. And so the six-foot magic distance is probably not enough, particularly in an indoor shared airspace.

And so more distance is going to be better. Physical barriers would be appropriate. Making sure that their air handling was at its peak efficiency. They may even need to bring in extra air handlers to scrub the air.

But I agree with you. I think that many of us in our businesses and in our interactions have turned to various virtual forms of communication. And there's really no reason why this couldn't be done in some sort of a format, in a virtual format.

It also might help to control the conversation a little bit and actually give the candidate a chance to express themselves more fully.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Well, that's a separate issue. But we could talk about that at another time offline.

But, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but Senator Harris and Vice President Biden have been behaving responsibly, wearing masks, distancing. And President Trump and Vice President Pence and the others have been reckless.

We all see it. They don't wear masks. And now we have a hot zone at our own White House. They have these events that are crowded. I mean, I guess, just to -- just to put it candidly, why should people who have been responsible about this have to go into a room with people who haven't, one of whom at least has the virus? RUPP: Well, I think this clearly is a strong cautionary message to all

of us that despite very frequent testing, with efforts to create a buffer of distance between the president and others, clearly, this was not enough.

And so wearing a mask any time when people are in public, when they can't maintain a safe distances, particularly if they're in any kind of an indoor air airspace, is the appropriate message.

The decision of whether folks can come into the debate format safely, as we have already talked about, it's going to depend upon a number of variables, and those will have to be carefully considered.

TAPPER: But it does sound as though you think that probably doing it in two different rooms would be the safer, more cautious approach, if anybody were asking you, although I don't know that the Commission on Presidential Debates will ever ask you.

Dr. Mark Rupp, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it, as always.

The concern of another coronavirus spike now in New Jersey, after President Trump traveled to Bedminster.

The governor of that state will join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:29]

TAPPER: And we're standing by for President Trump to be released from Walter Reed Medical Center and returned to the White House, which seems to be being done for political, not medical reasons.

The world is watching President Trump battle and downplay the coronavirus, and this country is fighting a worsening battle of its own. Cases are rising across the United States. Only five states right now are trending down.

And, in New York, after turning around what was a huge virus hot spot in New York City, CNN's Nick Watt explains that the governor there is shutting down several areas once again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In nine New York City zip codes, schools are closing down again.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: It's time for us to rewind.

WATT: In those same zip codes, the mayor also wants nonessential stores, gyms, indoor dining closed again, as test positivity rates rise, now too high for comfort. The governor won't go for that, not yet.

SALVATORE MUSSO, OWNER, LA STRADA PIZZERIA: Very sad. We expect to move forward, but this, it will go behind.

WATT: Also concern over in New Jersey after that fund-raiser Thursday hosted by a likely infectious president. Case counts are now rising again across the Northeast, which was so recently a success story.

These five states saw at least 50 percent more cases this past week compared to the week before.

DE BLASIO: This is a wake-up call to everyone in New York City to tighten up again, to do the things that work. Look, we overcame the worst problem in the entire country.

WATT: New York state's governor says a lack of local enforcement is a big part of the problem.

[16:45:03]

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): You will see people die if we don't do more enforcement. The state is going to take over the enforcement oversight in all the hot spot clusters.

WATT: Meanwhile, this morning, down in Miami-Dade County, another former hot spot, more than 22,000 kids returned to the classroom.

ALBERTO CARVALHO, SUPERINTENDENT, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA, PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Here to report happily that I have seen nothing but happy faces.

WATT: At one North Carolina school, all third grade now quarantined after a teacher, Julie Davis, tested positive. She later died. There will be plenty more pain ahead.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: I'm actually disturbed and concerned about the fact that our baseline of infections is still stuck at around 40,000 per day.

WATT: He's been saying that for weeks, and we have only gotten worse, back-to-back days of 50,000 plus new cases nationwide Friday and Saturday, first time we have seen that since mid-August.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: And a lot of talk about New York, but it is not just New York.

The states I'm about to list have in just the past week broken their records, the most new cases in a single day. They are Alaska, Montana, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Kentucky.

And as the governor of Kentucky says, we have to do better -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt in Los Angeles, thank you so much. Stay safe, my friend,.

Joining us now, the Democratic Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy.

Governor Murphy, I want to get your reaction. The president is being released from the hospital, even though the doctors there say he's not entirely out of the woods. And he put forward this tweet saying that people should not be scared of COVID, they shouldn't let it dominate their lives.

Your reaction?

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Well, first of all, he's in my prayers, as the first lady and everybody else who's infected, including, by the way, my predecessor, Governor Christie.

I will tell you something, Jake. I speak almost every day with family members who have lost a loved one. I just got off the phone three calls like that in a row. Let me tell you something. We have lost over 14,000 people in our state, confirmed. These real lives that were lived, all ages, extraordinary human beings.

They put up incredible fights. They were tough as nails. And they lost out and passed because of the virus. So, I think any amount of -- from bully pulpits, any amount of sense that we can let our guard down, don't let this thing bother us, don't let it dominate your life, is counter to what the facts suggest and counter to the lives that we have lost.

TAPPER: So, Governor, on Thursday, after the president learned that his top aide Hope Hicks, with whom he had been in recent close contact, after learning that she had not only tested positive for coronavirus, but was showing symptoms, was sick -- and Hope is young and healthy -- President Trump nonetheless boarded Marine One, then Air Force One, and then attended a fund-raiser in your state, in New Jersey, with more than 200 attendees.

You have called on all these attendees to quarantine. How big of a potential outbreak are you bracing for? And what do you think of the president's behavior.

MURPHY: I mean, the decision to fly, Jake, was a reckless one. It's plain and simple.

We want a therapeutic. We want a vaccine. God willing, we will get both of them sooner than later. In the meantime, we're left with a very small set of very basic things. The good news is, if we follow them, we will be healthier, social distancing, face coverings, wash your hands with soap and water.

And if either you're positive, you have got symptoms, or you come into contact with someone who's positive, take yourself off the field. It's that simple, for 14 days. They flew, literally and figuratively in this case, in the face of that.

And they came in, and we're in the midst of a couple of hundred people, plus staff members. I don't have an answer for you in terms of how widespread this is, but it was a national group of attendees. So the staff was all Jersey. Some number of the folks there were from Jersey, but there were folks also from around the country.

So we got on it first thing Friday morning contact tracing. But we can't do this alone. We need more federal help. And it is a concern, and there should be concern. But it was a reckless decision to go ahead with that event.

TAPPER: Well, I talked to Governor DeWine of Ohio yesterday. And he said, even though President Trump had been in Ohio for the debate on Tuesday and was likely infected and may have been contagious when he was there, he said he didn't hear from anybody at the White House to let him know about the diagnosis or to reach out to start working on contact tracing.

Have you? Has anybody from the White House or the Trump campaign reached out to you and said, these are the people that are infected and let's work together on contact tracing? Because now it's not just New Jersey fat cats, of course, also. It's bartenders and waiters and other people, working people in Bedminster.

[16:50:02]

Has anybody reached out?

MURPHY: Well, I first heard the news, by the way, not from any official source on Friday, early Friday morning, when I woke up.

We have been in constant touch with the White House, with the CDC, with the Republican National Committee...

TAPPER: OK, good.

MURPHY: ... at least initially to get the list.

But we haven't -- the feds need to do more on this. We have been shouldering the lion's share of this, by the way, not even just for the New Jersey folks, who are our main focus, but we have been communicating with folks from around the country.

We need -- we need more information. And we need more partnership from the federal side.

TAPPER: And you said there are reports that organizers in the Trump campaign may have not followed the emergency order in your state, and that that would be reported to the attorney general of your state.

Are you theoretically going to press charges against the individuals who violated the orders, including President Trump?

MURPHY: I mean, I can't say for sure one way or the other.

The attorney general in our state is looking into it, as he should. I'm focused in particular not just that the trip shouldn't have happened, period, but that, as part of the trip, there was an indoor -- part of the event was an indoor event.

So, we have got pretty strict measures on things like capacities, no buffet food lines. You got to have the food served to you. We're sensing that maybe both of those were violated.

But, again, I will leave that to the attorney general. But the whole thing should never have happened.

TAPPER: Governor Phil Murphy, a Democrat, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

We will be right back.

MURPHY: Thank you, Jake.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:56:14]

TAPPER: In 2020, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, has officially scheduled the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett to begin on October 12.

And now Senator Graham is using this as a reason for his reelection, as CNN's Manu Raju reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's gone from outspoken Trump critic to a staunch Trump defender.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Thank you for being the best commander in chief.

RAJU: And now Lindsey Graham is battling to keep his Senate seat in South Carolina and trying to convince voters he should be rewarded for his loyalty to the president.

GRAHAM: Here's what I want to tell all the liberals talking about South Carolina. We're going to kick your ass.

RAJU: Despite attacking Trump five years ago...

GRAHAM: He's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot.

RAJU: ... he now says this:

GRAHAM: I think it's that we're a team.

RAJU: And Graham is betting that it his vigorous defense of Trump's Supreme Court nominees and push to confirm his choice of Amy Coney Barrett by month's end will win over voters in this conservative state, despite what he said in the past.

GRAHAM: I have been helping Trump, and I apparently pissed every level of country off, but we will be fine.

RAJU: But Graham is being swamped by a deluge of attack ads painting him as a craven politician, suddenly making him among the most endangered Republicans.

Democrat Jaime Harrison, a former congressional aide, state party chair and lobbyist, is raising a staggering amount of money and bombarding the airwaves with ads like this one:

JAIME HARRISON (D), SOUTH CAROLINA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: One of the reasons our political system is broken is politicians who've been in Washington so long.

RAJU: And Harrison has already spent $40 million in advertising, compared to roughly $14 million by Graham.

Harrison has let his ads do the talking, doing little public campaigning, and speaking sparingly to the media.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have been blitzing us with ads back to back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been seeing a lot of Jaime Harrison ads.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven't them much more than just that and on the Internet.

RAJU: As a father of two young sons and pre-diabetic, Harrison has been cautious in the age of coronavirus, even insisting a large Plexiglas be placed beside him during Saturday's debate.

Harrison's campaign says his schedule has been packed. But his aides would not provide a list of his virtual events, despite many requests by CNN.

(on camera): Mr. Harrison, hi. Manu Raju at CNN. Do you have a quick minute to talk before the debate? Yes, we have been trying to talk to you for this -- your campaign hasn't been responding to our questions.

Mr. Harrison, do you have a quick second to talk about the debate. Sir, any questions from CNN. Will you take them?

(voice-over): At the debate, Harrison attacked Graham over his repeated promises in 2016 and 2018 not to advance a Supreme Court pick in a presidential election year.

GRAHAM: You could use my words against me.

HARRISON: You took an oath to serve. And that's what you have done. Now just be a man of it and stand up and say, you know what, I changed my mind.

RAJU: Graham was unapologetic about his reversal.

GRAHAM: Amy Barrett will be a buffer to liberalism. If you want conservative judges, I'm your only bet in this race.

RAJU: Yet it's that kind of shift that may cost Graham this voter in Myrtle Beach.

DOUG ORTH, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER: Kind of liked him until he flip- flopped on the Supreme Court thing. And that kind of turned me off.

RAJU: But Graham thinks most voters will ultimately reward him in his quest to keep the court and the Senate conservative. (on camera): Do you worry that voters may have lost trust in you?

GRAHAM: No, not at all. I think people can trust me to be fair.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: And, Jake, in my interview with Lindsey Graham, I asked whether President Trump should have leveled with the American public and not downplayed the coronavirus, as he admitted to doing.

Graham did not take issue at all with the president's handling of the virus and saying, I didn't think the president should go out and say "the whole country is going to blow up" -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. You can follow the show @THELEADCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Thanks for watching.

I will see you tomorrow at the same time.