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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Wants to Restart Rallies, Claims He Is No Longer Contagious; Pelosi Says Trump Is in An Altered State Right Now; Coronavirus Cases Rising in 25 States; Trump Claims Regeneron's Experimental Antibody Cocktail Cured Him, Promises Emergency Authorization. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 08, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, AND PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS IN THE DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES AT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: I've never seen a level of science denialism like this. I've never seen anybody willing to perturb science based federal agencies whether it's the EPA, the CDC, the NIH, you know, the National Weather Service, the FDA.

We need these agencies. We need to be able to count on these agencies. And the fact that he's marginalized them has really been to our detriment. It's just unconscionable.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Dr. Paul Offit, thank you very much. Good to see you again, sir, appreciate it.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi goes there. Will she make a play to get President Trump out of office now? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

TAPPER: We're back with our POLITICS LEAD today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggesting today that President Trump may be in an altered state and may have impaired judgment right now due to his coronavirus infection and the medication he's taking.

CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill. Manu, walk us through exactly what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is claiming.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She's been raising concerning or questions at least about the medication the President has been taking and questioning his erratic behavior, particularly, the way he's walked away from stimulus negotiations, suddenly pulled the plug on that, then suggested he wanted to move ahead. Again, raising questions about whether or not the President is being impacted any way about all his. Even today, Jake, suggesting perhaps he may call to invoke the 25th

Amendment, which of course, is that procedure under the Constitution that would require a majority of the cabinet as well as the Vice President to say the President is incapable of doing his job. And that would lead to the Vice President immediately becoming President. She said she'll talk more about this tomorrow.

But what Pelosi was asked today was how to explain the President's recent behavior and she said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The President is, shall we say, in an altered state right now. So, I don't know how to answer for his behavior.

There are those who say that when you're on steroids and/or if you have COVID-19, or both, that there may be some impairment of judgment. But again, that's for the doctors and the scientists to determine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, the President just tweeted about Nancy Pelosi suggesting the 25th Amendment is something she wants to talk about saying, crazy Nancy is the one who should be under observation. They don't call her crazy for nothing.

Of course, that's the President's nickname of the House Speaker. When I asked the House Speaker are you actually going to call to invoke the 25th Amendment, she would not say -- she said that is something we're just going to discuss tomorrow. So, we'll have to see what she ultimately decides to do here -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thanks so much.

Rick Bright, a former Trump administration official is going to be speaking to us later in the show. And we'll ask him what he makes of all this. He's a scientist.

And joining me to discuss is CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson and Abby Phillip. Nia, what do you think? Is it appropriate for the House Speaker to publicly question the President's judgment and mental state right now? I mean he is battling a potentially fatal illness and he is on serious medication as far as we know?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. And he is behaving rather erratically. Of course, it's kind of hard to tell with this President because this President often behaves erratically, changes his mind on important issues as we've seen him do here with stimulus talks off and on, as well as the debates.

But I think if you're Nancy Pelosi you are watching a President at a critical time in this country, at a critical time in his reelection just days out of the hospital and on this medication. And you're also seeing his doctors not be transparent about his status, his health status. It's also clear that this President, at least so far, I'm not sure, have we seen him live and in person talking?

I know he called into the "Fox News" network and talked to an anchor there for some time. But that in some ways, I think, could be alarming as well. As much as he is declaring that he is cured and he is feeling younger than he has, you know, in years, his behavior does suggest that there is something maybe more serious going on.

And so, I think she's there raising questions and I think a lot of Americans also have questions and want answers from his doctors.

TAPPER: Abby, without question everything Nia said is correct. The President is behaving erratically, he's on serious medication that could theoretically cause that.

And yet, there's no chance in hell that the President's cabinet is going to invoke the 25th Amendment even though Speaker Pelosi said she's going to discuss that tomorrow. That's the amendment used to remove unwell presidents from office.

And if you look at the President's Twitter feed right now, he's retweeting all these members of Congress from the "looney tunes caucus" talking about Nancy Pelosi staging a coup. I mean was this wise of her to talk about?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, she's poking the bear. Nancy Pelosi knows how to get under Donald Trump's skin. She knows that this is something he's very sensitive about, both his health and also the implication that he could be removed from office by members of his cabinet or members of his own party.

[15:40:00]

And so, I do think that she's throwing something out there that she knows is going to cause the President to act even more erratically. Whether or not this is a serious thing, I think, is almost beside the point. We are less than a month away from a presidential election.

But in terms of the ability to distract President Trump from a lot of things that are going on, to be honest, it seems that's what this is really about. I have no doubt that Nancy Pelosi believes that President Trump is impaired. But I also think that she knows that there is no chance that this is going to happen.

TAPPER: Right, I think that's smart, your suggestion that she's trying to poke the bear. Nia, President Trump called in to "Fox Business" for nearly an hour earlier today.

Among his remarks he called Senator Kamala Harris, the vice presidential nominee on the Democratic side, calling her a monster, calling her unlikable. The President has serious problems with women voters right now. I don't know that that's the wisest approach to call a woman politician a monster and unlikable. What do you think?

HENDERSON: It's not the wisest approach. It's terrible. Listen, he is doing terribly among women of all races. We tend to focus on white women, but you think about older women, older African-American women. And so, this won't help him.

He doesn't seem to have any real strategy. He's doubling down on all of the things we know about this President, and that is to traffic in sexist rhetoric, racist rhetoric as well.

And you have I think those two things converging in what he is talking about and claiming about Kamala Harris. I thought Kamala Harris was fairly good last night, and I'm sure he watched that and I'm sure he's a bit threatened by Kamala Harris.

He clearly does go after -- particularly goes after women that he feels sort of threatened by. And I think that's what's going on here.

And listen, it won't help him with women. He's bleeding support among women. Many of the women who voted for him, particularly white women in 2016 are fleeing that party.

And so, I think you'll see more of that with those comments. But again, this is the President we've come to know, particularly when it comes to women of color.

TAPPER: And Abby, President Trump now suggesting that he may have contracted coronavirus from Gold Star families at an event that he held on September 27th, Sunday. Gold Star families, people who lost a loved one in combat. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They come within an inch of my face sometimes. They want to hug me, and they want to kiss me. And they do. And frankly, I'm not telling them to back up. I'm not doing it. But I did say it's like, you know, it's obviously dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Abby, the timeline makes no sense based on what we know about the President's infection that he got it from the Gold Star families. But the idea, the obscenity of blaming this on people who have lost a loved one in war is just beyond the pale.

PHILLIP: It's ridiculous. But I think we should also remind people that when Hope Hicks was diagnosed with the coronavirus, one of the first things the President Trump said about that situation was that perhaps she got it from greeting members of the military in the course of her official duties as an adviser to the President.

So, this is not the first time the President has floated these kinds of ridiculous theories. And in fact, it is probably more likely that the President put these Gold Star families in danger by having a massive event at the White House the day before in which we know at least nine people -- who later contracted the virus attended that event both outside and inside.

TAPPER: All right, Abby Phillip and Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks to both of you. New coronavirus numbers are in. I wish I had good news for you, but I don't. It's not just in a handful of hotspots. Stay with us.

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[15:45:00]

TAPPER: In our HEALTH LEAD the coronavirus outbreak is sadly intensifying across the United States with much of the country moving in the wrong direction. And as CNN's Nick Watt reports for us now this troubling situation forcing states to impose new restrictions and new shutdowns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protests in New York City's COVID-19 hot spots. Some schools, stores and indoor dining were closed again today, religious services limited.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D) NEW YORK CITY: We can stop this challenge from turning into a full blown second wave and we must.

WATT: A field hospital is about to open in Wisconsin, the Tennessee Titans now under NFL investigation after 23 positive tests and an unsanctioned practice. Kentucky's mask mandate just extended another 30 days.

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): We're on pace, unfortunately, to have another record week.

WATT: In fact, these 11 states setting records right now. Highest average daily case counts ever. In just two states, home to less than 2 percent of Americans, average new case counts are actually falling, Alabama and Hawaii.

Latest national numbers more than 50,000 new cases Wednesday and more than 900 dead. Meanwhile on the much hoped for vaccine, --

ALEX AZAR, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Pending FDA authorizations we believe we may have up to 100 million doses by the end of the year. Enough for every American who wants a vaccine by March to April 2021.

WATT: And makers of that experimental antibody therapy used on the President just applied to the FDA for Emergency Use Authorization.

TRUMP: The Regeneron, which I view it as a cure, not just a therapeutic.

[15:50:00]

WATT: No, there is no cure for COVID-19. Controlling this virus is not rocket science, it's just science. Where masks, stay home is you're sick. But the President likely still contagious wants to break his own government's isolation guidelines, be back hosting MAGA rallies literally yesterday.

TRUMP: I'd love to do a rally today. I wanted to do one last night. WATT: In an unprecedented move the esteemed "New England Journal of

Medicine" just published this editorial, concluding our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now this morning the President also said that Regeneron and Eli Lily will get FDA authorization for their antibody therapies.

He doesn't know that. He shouldn't know that. That should be an apolitical decision. The President again and again and again playing politics with this pandemic -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick Watt in Los Angeles. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

President Trump continuing to praise Regeneron's experimental antibody cocktail he was given, claiming it basically cured him. It did not.

Joining me now is the Director of Global Health and Emergency Medicine at Columbia University Medical Center, Dr. Craig Spencer.

Dr. Spencer, thanks for joining us. Take a listen to President Trump calling his coronavirus diagnosis -- coronavirus now has killed now more than 212,000 Americans -- calling it a blessing from god.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I walked in. I didn't feel good. A short 24 hours later I was feeling great. I wanted to get out of the hospital. And that's what I want for everybody. I want everybody to be given the same treatment as your President because I feel great. I feel like perfect. So, I think this was a blessing from god that I caught it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: OK. 212,000 Americans dead. 7.5 million infected. Nothing's a blessing here at all. But more to the point, when he talks about this Regeneron experimental antibody therapy, that's not a cure, right?

DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL HEALTH AND EMERGENCY MEDICINE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Right. I think the only blessing here is that President Trump was one of the only ten people who have received this on a compassionate use basis.

That's great. Maybe it helped the President. There is no way that it's going to be scaled up to help the many hundreds of thousands of people who are going to get infected with this virus in the next few weeks.

Look, the reality is, the data on Regeneron is coming from a press release not from a publication in an esteemed journal.

We know data from 275 people only. The average age was 44, and the makeup of that population was majority from the black and Latino communities, which is great that that representation is there, but in terms of generalizing that to the rest of the American public, that just -- we can't use that as a way to assume that this is going to be this miracle treatment, which again, as we've already said, it likely will not.

TAPPER: Yes, and it's a therapeutic, not a cure in any case. But as you know, the antibody cocktail from Regeneron has been given to only to ten people inside the U.S., outside of the clinic trials, it's not been approved by the FDA for coronavirus treatment, not yet anyway.

Would you feel comfortable prescribing it on a large scale based on what you know now?

SPENCER: Again, all we know is from a press release and an investor pamphlet basically that was sent out with some of the data. We don't have any good scientific backing or a randomized control trial for example that we'd like to see to know if we should be using it more.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets an Emergency Use Authorization from the FDA. Remember that the bar for that is actually pretty low. We have to show that it may be beneficial, and the bar may be even a little bit lower in a pandemic, because we need everything we can to fight this disease.

That being said, we know it's only primarily helpful early on in the disease course. The data we have is from non-hospitalized patients.

TAPPER: All right, Doctor Spencer, I'm sorry to interrupt. We're going to listen to Joe Biden.

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: -- 4 million or so people who have already voted. They're denying the American people the one shot they have under Constitutional law to be able to have their input, and that is picking the person who could name who they --

TAPPER: All right. We're experiencing some technical difficulties. Do we have Dr. Spencer back with us, so we can finish his answer? Dr. Spencer, I apologize. Joe Biden was speaking, and we had to take that live.

Go back to the point you were making. We'll bring Joe Biden back. Joe Biden's done talking. So, we'll bring that back if he said anything.

[15:25:00]

I apologize. We're all doing this remotely, as you understand, because we're in the middle of a pandemic, so not everything is as smooth.

SPENCER: I understand that very well.

TAPPER: So please continue with the thought you were making about --

SPENCER: We are just a few weeks from election, so it's good to have the Presidential candidates speak, I agree.

TAPPER: Yes, so you were talking, just to bring our audience back, I asked if you would be comfortable prescribing right now, based on the information we have right now, prescribing the Regeneron antibody cocktail that the President says he wants everybody to have. Please, go ahead.

SPENCER: Sure. I think that it would be good in certain populations early on in the illness, not hospitalized patients, people that have an exposure, people really early in the illness. This is not meant to be for people who are already severely ill, on a ventilator, for example.

This is very different than other medications that we already have right now, despite the fact that the President has received all three of them together and maybe one of the only people in the world to have received all of them.

I think the point of this is that we need to make sure that if this does get approved, we don't do it in the same way as we did for convalescent plasma. Remember that fiasco from just over a month ago, where we've had over 100,000 people in the country get convalescent plasma and we still don't know whether it works, because we don't have the right data.

The way that it was rolled out. If we do the same with Regeneron, if we don't do the clinical trials necessary to know whether or not it's helpful, it may be that we end up having a medication that a bunch of people get that ultimately doesn't really help.

TAPPER: Dr. Craig Spencer, thank you so much. And again, apologies on that rude interruption. Coming up, he was one of the Trump administration's key scientists focused on developing coronavirus vaccine and more.

But his week, he quit his government post and he's joining me for his first interview. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: And welcome to our second hour of THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin this hour with the POLITICS LEAD.