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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Barrett Won't Say If Roe V. Wade Was Wrongly Decided; Barrett Says You Wouldn't Be Getting Scalia, You Would Be Getting Me; Trail for Antibody Cocktail Praised by Trump Paused Over Safety Concerns; 8 Hour Wait Times Reported at Georgia Early Voting Site; More Than 10 Million Votes Cast So Far in 41 States. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 13, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

JEFFERY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: People around the President who want conservatives on the Supreme Court, they read that article in the law review. They saw that you signed petitions against Roe V. Wade, that's why you are being nominated to the Supreme Court.

And, of course, you didn't really engage with that, but I think that gets to the heart of why these experiences are so frustrating, because of the nominees. And this is true of Democratic nominees as well as Republican, they suddenly decide once they are appointed to the Supreme Court , well, I'm actually just a blank slate. I'm just going to do law now.

When in fact, they have long histories which are the reason they were appointed in the first place.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And, Joan, obviously Judge Barrett makes no bones about the fact that she is a conservative Catholic in her private life. She has used language that progressives have objected to in this hearing instead of referring to sexual orientation when discussing same-sex marriage.

She said sexual preference, which a lot of LGBTQ activists say is objectionable language because you're suggesting that somebody being gay is just a preference, it's not who they are.

Similarly, when asked about that ad that she participated in, signed her name to 15 years ago, which was about opposing abortion, she said she signed it after church and it was in upholding the church's support for the culture of life. That's the term she used.

Again, that's a religious term, a political term if you are anti- abortion. Is she making a mistake by being as up front about her conservative religious views when it comes to this confirmation process, or is this who she is and everybody knows it?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Thanks, Jake. It is who she is and it's been the Republican Senators who've been drawing that out from her. We just heard a few minutes of the Josh Hawley exchange where he wanted her to talk about that. And she did not back away from it. So, it doesn't seem to cost her. And I think that the Democrats have stayed away from it for the specific reason that they do not want to appear that they're being anti-religious, anti-Catholic.

Which I don't think even in that 2017 hearing when they asked her about certain religious inclinations and just what goes into her decision making, they were just trying to look at the broader picture of what will she consider as a judge when she's looking at cases. And the Republican Senators have given her a chance to respond to that. And she has not backed away from it. And as I said, it doesn't appear to cost her.

I want to mention one thing that she also wrote, you know, a lot of her past writings have been invoked here on religion, on the Affordable Care Act. But one thing she also said in the Law Review piece was that Americans understand why the Supreme Court is such an election year issue. There is a difference between a Justice Scalia and his originalist approach and a Justice Steven Brier and his active liberty approach. And that, you know, allows the Constitution to cover many more contemporary social dilemmas.

So she understands that's there's a difference among the Justices who are put on the Supreme Court depending on who the President is and on their own philosophical views. But during this hearing she is minimizing those differences. She is essentially, you know, the phrase that you have used about the Kabuki theater or the blank slate, that's sort of the mission that she's projecting here, although to your most recent question, she is acknowledging her Catholic faith but saying that will not determine how she rules -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Joan and Jeffrey, thank you so much. We're going to keep watching the Senate confirmation hearings of Judge Amy Coney Barrett. We're going to bring you more news at it happens. But there's a lot going on, of course.

And coming up next, it's a coronavirus therapy touted by President Trump but now breaking news that trial has been put on hold. We'll tell you why.

Plus, one of the coronavirus vaccine trials here in the U.S. also paused. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news on our HEALTH LEAD for you now. Drug maker Eli Lilly is pausing the trial of its antibody cocktail for safety reasons. The antibody cocktail has been praised by the President since his coronavirus diagnosis after he took a similar cocktail made by a different company, Regeneron.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now to talk about it. Elizabeth, do we know exactly what caused Ely Lilly to pause their trial? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, you know,

what's interesting is that we don't. When we've seen other pauses recently, companies have said, oh, a participant became ill. We need to check and make sure whether it was related to the vaccine or whether it was just a fluke.

But Lilly actually did not get into that. They just said that we've paused it. What's interesting, Jake, is they didn't say that they just sort of did this on their own. They said something called the Data Safety and Monitoring Board, which is this independent board that reviews safety data to make sure that everything is going the way it should, that this board actually suggested that they pause.

So that's pretty telling. If this board says, you know, you need to pause, that means that there is reason to pause.

Now, Jake, it's unclear what affect this will have. Lilly has actually applied for Emergency Use Authorization from the FDA to put this medicine on the market, so does it really matter if they have to pause the trial?

They've already applied to the FDA so maybe they have sufficient data already from their trials for the FDA to be considering authorization -- Jake.

[15:40:00]

TAPPER: Now Elizabeth, the President took a similar cocktail, not the exact same thing, but a similar cocktail from a different pharmaceutical company, Regeneron. He's been calling it a cure. It's not a cure, it's a treatment.

But he has been promising including last night to voters and supporters in Florida that this exact one, this antibody cocktail's going to soon be authorized for emergency use in hospitals, he wants to give it to everyone. Do you see that happening any time soon?

COHEN: You know, it's interesting, Jake, when I hear you say that, in the past other presidents and politicians have been very clear. I'm not going to comment on the status of any drug application because they want the science to tell the story, not politics. President Trump doesn't seem to care. He doesn't seem to care that he's out there advocating for a drug approval when maybe this drug shouldn't be approved. The scientists at the FDA need to review it.

Now, whether or not they can get approval, let's say, by election day in the next three weeks, you know, that's actually a good question. For vaccines, you know, all the experts that I've talked to agree, there's no way a vaccine is going to get approved between now and election day.

But this is a little different. This is a medicine. Sort of the bar for that, it's just a little bit easier. And so is it possible? Sure, it is possible.

However, you know, it may not happen because there's a lot that goes into these reviews. I mean it's a lot of data to look at, it's a lot of things to weigh. The fact that they now have this hold certainly would, you know, have an influence for Lilly because Lilly has applied as well. You know, they would have to take that into consideration.

TAPPER: When Eli Lilly puts a hold on a treatment that is similar to one that a different company, in this case, Regeneron has, does that cause Regeneron to rethink whether or not they should go forward? Should President Trump, who didn't take the Eli Lilly cocktail but took the Regeneron antibody cocktail, should he be worried about his own health?

COHEN: You know, usually when you see reactions to medicines like this, it's much more immediate. I mean the President took this some time ago now. So usually when you see reactions that would cause a pause in a trial, it's pretty immediate. It's viewed typically not this long afterward. So I don't think the President would have reason, really, to worry about his health from what we know.

As far as what Regeneron would think? It's a really good question. These are not exactly the same. They're both antibody drugs, but they work differently, they use different antibodies.

But certainly as the FDA reviews both Regeneron and Lilly, they will certainly consider, wait a minute, something happened with the Lilly one. You know, we're guessing, somebody got sick enough because they paused the trial, somebody got sick enough that they're concerned.

I would think the FDA would keep that in mind. They're both antibody drugs even though they are somewhat different.

TAPPER: Yes, I sure hope it's just an aberration. Johnson & Johnson has also paused its trial of a vaccine, not a treatment, a vaccine, during Phase III, this final phase. Do we have any idea why that happened?

COHEN: You know, for that one we do. They said that a participant had an unexplained illness, and so they decided to put this trial on pause. They were very clear to say the FDA didn't make us pause, we decided to pause.

They said, look, we don't know if this participant got the vaccine or got the placebo. They even said they're not sure what kind of illness or what exactly happened to this participant, but they were concerned enough that they said, you know what, let's put a pause on this. And this trial hasn't been going on for very long. It's only gone on for sort of a week or two since late September. So, they decided to pause it and sort of look into it to see what happens.

Let's read a statement from Johnson & Johnson because I think that talks about, addresses what they're talking about here.

They say that serious adverse events are not uncommon in clinical trials and the number of serious adverse events can reasonably be expected to increase in trials involving large numbers of participants. So that's a fancy way of saying, look, when something goes wrong in a

trial, sometimes it's just because people get sick. You're going to start enrolling thousands of people, somebody is going to get sick. They're human beings. The thing here is though, is that apparently this illness was of enough concern that maybe it was related to the vaccine that they decided to stop down and review it.

It may be that this person didn't even get the vaccine. Maybe they got the placebo. It may be that they find, you know what, this illness had nothing to do with the vaccine. We just don't know at this point -- Jake.

TAPPER: I hope so, but that's two major pharmaceutical companies now, Johnson & Johnson you were talking about and also AstraZeneca, that have both had to pause their vaccine trials. What might that mean for the timeline for a vaccine?

COHEN: Well, it means that these two aren't going anywhere fast. AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, they're not enrolling anyone at the moment. Now there are two others that are going ahead and are going as they would say, full speed ahead, so that's Pfizer and Moderna, so those are going at a much more rapid clip. And they also started earlier. They started at the end of July.

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much, really appreciate it. Coming up there's an eight-hour wait to vote early at one polling location, eight-hours. A look at the record breaking turnout so far. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

TAPPER: We have got breaking news for you now out of Gwinnett County, Georgia where early in-person voters are experiencing an insane wait time, frankly, eight hours to cast their votes right now. As CNN's Pamela Brown reports. It's just one of the many problems people across the country are already encountering as they try to cast ballots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Another state, another day of hours and long lines and some mishaps as voters go to the polls. This time, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has come out to vote here. Lines around the corner.

BROWN: Across the Lone Star State, Houston, South Austin, Ft. Hood, all with long lines as voters take advantage of the start of early voting. After waking up to news of a late night ruling upholding Republican Governor Greg Abbott's directive for one ballot drop box per county in the state. A major issue for densely populated counties where voters could spend more than an hour driving just to cast their vote. CHRIS HOLLINS, HARRIS COUNTRY CLERK: More than 50 miles in some cases

to drop off their mail ballot. It's unfair. It's prejudicial and it's dangerous.

BROWN: It comes a day after a similar start in Georgia where voters waited for hours to vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be out here to be able to share my voice.

BROWN: Georgia is setting an early voting record with nearly 127,000 ballots cast. Today, no different. More voters, more long lines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many people sacrificed before us so it's almost spit in their face if we don't take the time to show our kids, that they have this right and it's best used as early as possible.

BROWN: But voting rights advocates say it's not OK to make people wait like this.

HAROLD FRANKLIN, BOARD CHAIR, SOUTHEAST REGION, LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS UNDER LAW, ATLANTA: There have been problems with poll pads, with ballot access cards and with, obviously, social distancing and it just taking a lot longer to process through lines.

BROWN: Also today, in Virginia the last day of voter registration saw the state's online registration system go down due to a severed cable prompting calls from some state leaders to extend the registration deadline.

Meanwhile in California unofficial ballot drop boxes potentially illegal in the state as the state's Democratic Secretary of State and the Department of Justice is sending a cease and desist order to the California Republican Party to remove those ballot boxes in at least three counties.

ALEX PADILLA, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: This is wrong no matter who is doing it. It's not just the security of the ballot that's in question here. It is, you know, the transparency, voter confidence.

BROWN: The state Republican Party spokesman is telling CNN he believes the unofficial boxes are similar to giving the ballot to a family member to drop off which is legal in California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And in Georgia, where there's that eight-hour wait time at one of the polling locations, you noted there, Jake, we're also learning from the Secretary of State in Georgia that there's a 40 percent surge above the previous record of early voting just before the 2016 election.

And I should also note in Virginia with the issues today with the deadline and voting registration, the governor there is saying he is trying to do everything he can to extend the deadline but he says he does not have the authority to do so -- Jake.

TAPPER: OK, Pamela Brown, thanks so much. Let's talk about this with CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson and Gloria Borger.

Nia-Malika at least 10 million votes have already been cast in this race already, vote by mail or early voting, many states may not have a full count to share on election night.

We need to have viewers and voters understand this. It might actually take days before states are done counting before we know who won the presidential election.

Do you worry that the President has created so much doubt that his supporters will automatically believe that something nefarious is going on with the count even when nothing nefarious is?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean if you think about Trump supporters, they're incredibly loyal to him, they essentially take on his beliefs whether or not his beliefs are rooted in facts or data or science.

They essentially parrot his talking points. So, I do think that will likely happen on election day. There will be some sense that the votes that haven't been counted yet, those mail-in votes in particular are somehow less legitimate because they didn't come in. And we've the President over these last many, many weeks, essentially, say those votes -- and we know what votes he's talking about.

Votes who are coming, you know, from Democratic cities and, you know, in blue states, those are votes he sees as illegitimate. It isn't the votes that might be from his own voters. He is, of course, encouraging them to vote by mail even as he cast doubt on mail-in voting more generally.

We should be prepared for election week. It could be election weeks before we know the actual outcome. But just because it's delayed certainly doesn't mean that it's illegitimate as the President would have many, particularly his supporters believe.

[15:55:04]

TAPPER: And Gloria, let's be clear about this, I want to make sure voters understand this. Let's take what is shaping up to be the swing state, the battleground state, my home Commonwealth Pennsylvania, most of the people who are voting early are Democrats. They have requested vote by mail and a lot of Republicans, for whatever reason, probably because some of it is because President Trump has suggested that they shouldn't, are not doing it as much.

It might be that more Trump supporters vote on election day itself than actually vote in totality. I have no idea what's going to happen. Maybe Trump will win Pennsylvania. Who knows.

But there will clearly be an effort by Trump supporters if not by the President himself to say, the only votes that should count are the ones cast on election day and all these vote by mail shouldn't count. And that's not the law and that is disenfranchisement.

BORGER: Of course, it is, and here's the irony, of course, you see the lines today? Three weeks before election day. Imagine what the lines will be on election day.

And the President has said, you know, only count the people who show up. Well, who knows if those counts are going to be able to be done by that night. I mean it seems to me that we're looking at a huge turnout.

And by the way, the President has had a mixed message even on mail-in ballots which he says, well, mail-in ballots are terrible, don't do that, you can't trust them. They could be fraudulent. But on the other hand, if you vote absentee, that's OK. And we all know that there is absolutely no difference.

TAPPER: Yes.

BORGER: So it's confusing and what the President is doing is stirring the pot. So that anybody can raise a question even if it's crazy and it can be deemed illegitimate. Now why isn't the President out there screaming today about what's going on in California where there were these fake boxes distributed by Republicans?

TAPPER: Right.

BORGER: And they were caught. I haven't heard anything about President Trump about that, have you?

TAPPER: No. And I haven't heard him say anything about the fraud that went on in the North Carolina House race --

BORGER: Exactly.

TAPPER: -- in 2018 because that was committed by a Republican as well.

BORGER: Yes.

TAPPER: Nia-Malika, former President Obama we found out today will be stumping, hitting the campaign trail for Joe Biden, his former Vice President. Do you think he could actually help? What's the best way to deploy him theoretically?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, listen, Biden has a different coalition than Obama does. Biden's coalition is much older, is much whiter. He's going to do much better among those groups than Obama did. I think for Obama, he did very well among Latino voters, younger voters, African-American voters as well.

If you think about what happened in 2016, 4 million Obama voters who voted in 2012 stayed home in 2016. So those I think are the voters and many of those folks, about half were African-Americans.

So I think that's where Obama can be most useful even though Biden's doing fairly well among African-Americans in terms of the percentage of voters, African-American voters who seem to back him in polls, you need to expand those numbers and really get turn-out to levels that Obama got in 2012.

TAPPER: And Gloria, Trump won Florida in 2016. Biden is campaigning there today. We're three weeks out from the election.

BORGER: Offense. He's on offense. You know, if you look at the states he is in -- Iowa, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania. You know, these are states that now Biden has been there, and Trump has got to go there. And Florida, of course, you're talking about election night. If you were to know that say, Biden won Florida on election night, then Trump's path really narrows to winning in the electoral college.

If Trump were to win on election night, Florida, you would know that you were in for a very long period to sort of try and find out who won.

Biden has a shot at Florida. He knows that it was close. He's going to go back. But here's what's also interesting, he is sending his wife to Georgia and to Texas. OK. Because look at suburban women. Those states, believe it or not, I mean they are not betting that Democrats can win them but they think they're in play.

TAPPER: Well, and apparently President Trump might also, Nia-Malika, President Trump is going to be holding a rally in Georgia. That's not a state that three weeks out he should be worried about.

HENDERSON: That's right. Georgia. He's also going to Iowa. This is troubling for his campaign at this point.

And if you're Biden you want to be in these states also because of the down ballot, right? There's some very competitive House races both in Texas and Georgia, some Senate races as well. So, they are trying to cover all of their bases. But I think you would rather be at this point in Biden's position rather than Trump's.

TAPPER: All right, Gloria Borger, Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks to both of you, appreciate it.

And welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin the second hour with the 2020 LEAD.

The U.S. is approaching 8 million coronavirus cases.