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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Voter Suppression Occurring Already?; Biden Campaign in Florida; Supreme Court Confirmation Hearings Continue. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 13, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And right this minute, Judge Amy Coney Barrett continues to face questions on Capitol Hill as part of her confirmation process to be the next U.S. Supreme Court justice.

Judge Barrett has refused to say how she might rule on upcoming cases, including the Affordable Care Act and abortion rights, saying to weigh in would be inappropriate.

But did she give any hints as to how a Justice Barrett might vote?

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins me now live.

And, Jessica, the hearing is still going on. Walk us through what's happening -- happened so far.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, really, Jake, the takeaway has been the Democrats are really frustrated by Amy Coney Barrett's refusal to weigh in on how she might rule on some of these cases and these issues, like same-sex marriage, abortion, health care, gun rights.

Amy Coney Barrett's response to all of these questions has really been the same, saying that she will not weigh in on precedent, she will not pre-commit to any outcome, and that she has no agenda.

In fact, she was pressed by Senator Leahy about President Trump's comments that he needs a ninth justice on the court in case any election dispute comes before the court. Here's how Barrett answered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY CONEY BARRETT, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE NOMINEE: I have had no conversation with the president or any of his staff on how I might rule in that case. It would be a gross violation of judicial independence for me to make any such commitment or for me to be asked about that case and how I would rule.

Let me be clear. I have made no commitments to anyone, not in the Senate, not over at the White House, about how I would decide any case.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCHNEIDER: And Barrett also really pushed back on this idea that she would be an automatic vote to eliminate the Affordable Care Act if she's on the court when it comes before them on November 10.

Jake, she really said that any past comment was just in academic writing. And then she also talked about the fact that the Supreme Court will really be weighing in on two different ideas and subjects and issue matters than they actually addressed in previous cases, Jake.

TAPPER: Jessica, one of the most high-profile questioners, Senator and Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris, she's going to get her turn to speak in a few hours.

What do you expect tonight and tomorrow?

SCHNEIDER: Well, Kamala Harris really drilled in on COVID issues, health care coverage when we saw her yesterday.

Of course, she's appearing virtually, instead of being in that committee room, all because of COVID.

But Kamala Harris is a prosecutor. She's known for these sharp questions, and she even had a little bit of a zinger the last time we saw her in this setting back in 2018 with Brett Kavanaugh. She asked the now Justice Brett Kavanaugh, she said, are there any government regulations that regulate male bodies?

And that, there was a little bit of banter back and forth. And, finally, Justice Kavanaugh relented, saying, I can't seem to think of one, Senator.

So, expect those sharp questions from Kamala Harris, and perhaps even a zinger or two -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, former federal prosecutor Laura Coates.

Laura, what's your biggest takeaway from what you have heard from Judge Barrett so far?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, she seems to be following, ironically enough, what's known as that Ginsburg rule of no preview, no forecasts, no hints, although Ginsburg herself did not actually do that, remember, back in '93, when she infamously address head on the issue of Roe v. Wade, and made her opinions known.

But you see -- on this particular occasion, you see Judge Amy Coney Barrett deciding not to give a full context or her reasoning or her rationale, where her thought process might be going forward on a number of issues, including one I found very odd, Jake, which is the answer of what would happen if the president of the United States tried to delay the election?

That's not a -- as she called it, a conversation for legal pundits to sort of opine over. It's pretty clear-cut. It should be an act of Congress. Otherwise, the president has no action and no basis in order to delay it. And she wouldn't answer that.

So, she almost abided by this principle, almost to a fault, in not showing her hand at all, frustrating a lot of the Democrats.

TAPPER: Judge Barrett would not answer about how she might potentially rule in future cases, including on the Affordable Care Act. There's going to be a Supreme Court hearing on that on November 10, on Roe vs. Wade.

Did you hear any hints in her answers that might signal how she might rule?

COATES: Well, of course, you can go not only her answers, but to her actual academic writings.

And one of the things that the Affordable Care Act is that a -- there was a big discussion between herself and Senator Coons about this issue, and Senator Klobuchar. But, remember, the Affordable Care Act, she talks about, well, listen, I can't address those claims, because, frankly, when I wrote about these things, it wasn't about the nuance that's going to be before the court, disingenuously speaking, of course, however, Jake, because think about it.

It's not a nuance about the ACA that's on the line. The entire act is on the chopping block. So any writings she may have said criticizing a strain that she called it or a not-natural interpretation by Justice Roberts is relevant.

And so that almost showed to me that she was unwilling to admit even though what she'd already written. On the issues of the Second Amendment, she went to great lengths to describe her views on Heller, but then recoiled at the fact of Senator Amy Klobuchar asking for further clarification.

[16:35:01]

So, she was selective in what she wanted to be forthcoming about, which I find to be a little bit disingenuous and hard to read.

TAPPER: Well, let's dive into the one about the ACA, about the Affordable Care Act.

She wrote a book review, basically, not as a legal matter, but as -- just as journalism almost, in which she criticized Justice Roberts' ruling and this and the majority ruling that basically said that the individual mandate was OK for the Congress to pass because it was a tax.

Her argument is that this -- the issue coming before the court coming up, that has to do with whether or not -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- you're the expert here -- if something in the Affordable Care Act is found to be unconstitutional, whether or not that kills the entire Affordable Care Act. Is that right?

So, that's her argument?

COATES: Yes. It's an issue of what's called severability.

Think about it in terms of, say, a lizard who can drop a particular limb and still scurry away. Can these actual -- can the actual Affordable Care Act exists with a very fundamental limb or tail missing?

The entire reason why Justice Roberts looked at the issue of the Affordable Care Act and said, listen, this is a valid exercise of constitutional authority by Congress because of the taxing power of Congress, and so as long as you have this tax-mandated penalty, essentially, you were exercising under your constitutional power.

Well, of course, the Republican coalition of attorney generals have come back to say, well, now that the penalty is now reduced to zero, it is symbolic and not really a tax. So, if that's the only linchpin that kept this alive and floating, well, then it can no longer be held to be constitutional.

That is the issue before the court a week after the election to figure out if removing this particular substantive penalty is enough to invalidate everything. Can it be a lizard they can scurry away without a consequential limb? She did not want to address that because she said, well, I was talking about a very different context.

But, again, we're talking about the overall viability of the Affordable Care Act. Can it exist, nuances aside, without that tax- imposed mandated penalty?

TAPPER: And it's something that obviously has a huge impact, theoretically, on tens of millions of Americans.

COATES: Yes.

TAPPER: Laura Coates, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

COATES: Yes.

TAPPER: Why -- what do Oprah and Willie Nelson have in common?

I'll tell you in our 2020 lead -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:47]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today: We are exactly three weeks out from Election Day, and former Vice President Joe Biden is in Florida one day after President Trump was there.

Biden will soon have some big-name support joining him on the campaign trail.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins me live in Miramar, Florida, where Biden is headed now. Jeff, former President Obama plans to campaign for Biden soon, but

with the pandemic, how? How is he going to do this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, that has been the central question and challenge for Democrats all along the way here.

They're trying to draw a contrast between President Trump, who, of course, we have seen hold those big rallies. Well, this is what a Joe Biden campaign event looks like. Look behind me here. It is essentially a drive-through movie event. Cars have been streaming in here throughout the afternoon, several hundred cars or so, supporters of Joe Biden.

They're going to see him from a distance in person. That is what the Biden campaign is doing.

Jake, this is also a bit of an organizing effort for people to come here, get some information, and make sure they early-vote when that starts here in Florida next week.

But Barack Obama, I'm told, the former president, of course, who twice won the state of Florida, is going to be campaigning, stepping up his campaigning during the final two weeks or so of this campaign.

He's likely to travel to several of those states that he won that Hillary Clinton lost four years ago, specifically reaching out to suburban women, African-American voters, and even seniors here in Florida, which right now are a big challenge for the Trump administration.

So, no question, Jake, a bit of an unusual drive-through rally, but they certainly are at least six feet apart.

TAPPER: And, Jeff, Biden and his campaign have avoided giving an answer about whether or not they support what progressives have been pushing, the idea that, if Republicans ram through this nomination of Judge Barrett, Democrats add seats to the U.S. Supreme Court, what Republicans call court packing.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a fan of court packing, but I'm not -- I don't want to get off on that whole issue.

I want to keep focused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Finally some clarity from Biden on this, but it still might not put the issue to rest.

ZELENY: Some clarity, but you're right, it will not push the issue to rest, because Joe Biden has not answered the question. He was much clearer about this during the primary, when he said he

opposes the idea of expanding the Supreme Court. Several of his Democratic rivals were deeply in favor of this. But now he really doesn't want to talk about it.

He did say yesterday in Ohio, as you heard there, he's not a fan of it. But he has not yet said he outright opposes it.

The reality here is this. They do not want to get locked into a position on this. They're really trying to keep the liberals in the party at bay unified here.

But, Jake, this will be, should he win, a huge issue for the base of the party. That's why Republicans, of course, are trying to raise it right now.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

Tonight, President Trump will be in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for a rally in Johnstown.

I want to play some sound from two women who voted for Trump in 2016. One told CNN that Trump's handling of the pandemic changed her mind on Trump into 2020. Another said it was Trump's response to George Floyd's killing that changed her mind. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLLIE GEITNER, FORMER TRUMP SUPPORTER: And to see what's happened since, I feel like he's added fuel to the flames of hatred. And that really bothers me.

[16:45:02]

JULIE BRADY, FORMER TRUMP SUPPORTER: The COVID pandemic, the way he handled it, that was the absolute last straw for me. He didn't create the virus, but he kind of left us all in the dark guessing what was going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in Gloria Borger and Laura Barron-Lopez to talk about this.

Laura, the Biden campaign is really hoping that women like those two will defect and give Pennsylvania back to Democrats. Do you think it's likely to happen? What's your take?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, all the polling is showing that, in some form, that is happening, given that there's this massive gender gap in states like Pennsylvania, when voters are asked who they're going to support.

Biden is supported in some of the recent Pennsylvania polls by 10 or more points, compared to Trump, among women. Among men, they're a little bit closer, in terms of one point or more support Trump over Biden.

And I was actually in Pennsylvania this past weekend, and I encountered a woman who said that she voted for Trump last time, and that she plans to vote for Biden in -- and that a lot of it had to do with Trump's personality. And, of course, COVID compounded that.

And even her own household was actually emblematic of that gender gap, because she said her husband still plans to vote for Trump.

TAPPER: And, Gloria, Trump is heading to Johnstown, Pennsylvania, tonight to have a rally, again, according to his own health experts, not what he should be doing. It's reckless. People are not wearing masks. People are not social distancing.

We have had many health experts just on today's show, as well as yesterday's, including Dr. Fauci, saying, it's a bad idea. It's exactly the last thing you want to do during a pandemic.

How might that affect these very voters that we're talking about, white women who voted for Trump last time?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's not good.

I mean, Donald Trump seems to be intent on solidifying his base from 2016 without realizing that he has lost all of these suburban women. He's even lost among white non-college educated man, although he still beats Biden, but the margin is narrower.

People don't like, more than 60 percent of the people in this country don't like the way he's handled COVID. He goes out there. He talks about, I could kiss all of you, in a rally the other night, or last night, whenever it was. And people look at that and say, are you modeling the good behavior that I'm trying to teach my children? How about the fact that I haven't seen my own children or my grandchildren?

It's -- it doesn't help him.

TAPPER: And, Laura, recent polls show Biden leading Trump narrowly in Florida. A poll from Quinnipiac university shows Trump leaves with white non-college-educated voters in that state and white men in general in Florida.

Can Trump win Florida by turning out those groups, white, no college education, and white men?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, he certainly did it in 2016. But the question for Trump's campaign, whether it's Florida or the tipping point of Pennsylvania, is whether or not he can get more white non-college- educated men, more white working-class to turn out, and that means ones that didn't maybe turn out in 2016.

And that's a big what-if for the campaign.

TAPPER: And, Gloria, Texas native former Congressman and presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke says he's going big to get out the vote in the Lone Star State.

The former Democratic presidential candidate teamed up with Oprah, Willie Nelson, Stacey Abrams, Julian Castro, Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang to call nearly three million Texans and encourage them to vote early.

Do you think Texas is really actually in play?

(LAUGHTER)

BORGER: Well, it's hard to believe, Jake, but it actually is.

I mean, look, we can't depend on the polls 100 percent. But the fact that they're doing this, the fact that Jill Biden is going to Texas to try and turn out suburban women, I think what you're trying to do is kind of poke the bear and let Donald Trump know that you are playing in Texas, and make them spend money there.

Even though you may not believe you're actually going to win, why not try at this point?

TAPPER: And, Laura, today, Republican Senator Mitt Romney said -- he issued a statement saying it's time to lower the heat of politics in America.

In a tweeted statement, he said -- quote -- "I'm troubled by our politics, as it has moved away from spirited debate to a vile, vituperative, hate-filled morass that is unbecoming of any free nation, let alone the birthplace of modern democracy."

He really singled out President Trump for specific criticism, criticism while exempting Joe Biden from it.

BARRON-LOPEZ: That's right.

[16:50:00]

He said in the statement that Biden doesn't stoop as low as other Democrats in terms of turning this heat up or attacking one another. It's emblematic of also other Republicans that we have seen so far.

Now, I know that that wasn't an outright endorsement of Biden, but we have seen a lot of historic crossover from Republican officials supporting Biden this election cycle, ones like Cindy McCain, ones like Jeff Flake, and those could be key in pushing some undecideds over the edge in states like Arizona.

TAPPER: All right, Laura Barron-Lopez, Gloria Borger, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

BORGER: Sure.

TAPPER: Some voters in a presidential battleground waiting hours to vote. Is it a sign of voter enthusiasm or something more nefarious?

Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:20]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: We are exactly three weeks away from Election Day, what could be the end of the most critical election of our lifetimes.

And, already, voters across this country are lining up to make sure their votes are counted.

Check out the lines in Dallas, Texas, where early voting started today, or in Georgia. A record nearly 127,000 people showed up for the first day at the polls, and even in more rural areas, such as here in Fair Oaks Ranch, Texas, a town a fewer than 10,000 people, lines wrapping around the corner, a sign that Americans everywhere are making sure, even in a pandemic, their voices are heard.

But whether you choose to vote early, in-person or by mail, I want to prepare viewers for the possibility that we may not know who won election night because of all the millions of Americans voting by mail and voting early, votes that could take days to count, the ones by mail.

There will clearly be an attempt by some in politics, perhaps even President Trump, to argue that only those votes cast in-person should count.

But that's not the law. And the president's tweets do not matter.

What matters is your state election officials doing everything they can to ensure all valid votes are counted, whomever you vote for, regardless of how you choose to exercise that most important right and privilege.

But do prepare yourself for that fact we may not know that night.

It is now day two of early voting in Georgia, and voters in one county waiting up to eight hours, eight hours, to cast their votes. It's extraordinary.

CNN's Amara Walker is at that polling site.

And, Amara, you say that things are getting better there, with the wait time down to three hours. I guess the big question I have is, are these long inspirational? Are they because of voter enthusiasm, or is it depressing, because there's some nefarious kinds of voter suppression?

Help me figure out how to feel about these lines.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, first off, let me tell you there is a lot of enthusiasm, just talking to the people who've been standing in line here for hours.

And let's take a walk to show you how long the line is here. They are determined to cast their vote. They're saying that the stakes are just way too high not to exercise their civic duty.

The line here, as you can see, kind of wraps around the building here in this strip mall. As you said, the wait time is now down to three hours. At its peak today, it was a six-hour wait.

Now, on the question of voter suppression, Jake, I can tell you that there is no evidence of outright voter suppression here in Georgia that we have seen. But I spoke with a voting rights activist who told me that she was quite outraged to hear about these long wait times, particularly because she thought that the election officials, the local election officials, would have prepared better for these unprecedented numbers of voters turning up.

And she says, yes, this is indeed a form of voter suppression. The people here are in a pretty darn good mood, considering the fact that they have been waiting in line for so long. We were actually at another polling place in Fulton County, which includes most of Atlanta.

We spoke with the people there as well, the voters, and they all seemed to be in pretty great spirits. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: How long have you waiting in line?

SEAN TERRELL, GEORGIA VOTER: About two hours now, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

WALKER: What do you think about that?

TERRELL: Oh, it sucks. But I'd rather be out here doing my civic duty than not.

(LAUGHTER)

TERRELL: I don't trust the whole mail-in voting thing. So I will be here, and I will sign it, and make sure it goes where it needs to go.

I think every election is pivotal, but this one definitely has a huge impact on not just my life, but our children, our future children, women's lives. This election -- black lives -- this election is extremely important.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: And, Jake, I just want to quickly point out that we spoke with a good number of people in line who told me that they had mail-in ballots, but they decided against it, and rather vote in-person because they felt more confident doing so.

And you can attribute that to the long lines -- Jake, back to you.

TAPPER: All right, Amara, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Finally today, we want to take a moment to remember just one of the many lives lost to coronavirus in the U.S.

The longtime mayor of Manchester, Tennessee, Mayor Lonnie Norman, he was 79 years old when he died after what his office called a valiant fight with the virus. Norman's family says he entered public office in 1984, becoming Manchester's first black mayor ever in 1991.

Among his proudest accomplishments, supporting the Bonnaroo Music & Arts Festival, which is held in his small town every year.

During this difficult time, his family says they're holding tight to Norman's favorite quote: "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."

May his memory be a blessing.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

[17:00:00]