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The Lead with Jake Tapper

CDC Warns Indoor Sports Could Be Super-Spreader Events; Fauci Says Safe and Effective Vaccine May Be Widely Available in April; Long Lines Across North Carolina As Early Voting Begins; California GOP Defying State Orders to Remove Unofficial Ballot Drop Boxes; Trump Claims U.S. Is Doing Fine with Coronavirus. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 15, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Pun intended

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Let's talk about vaccines if we can. Dr. Fauci said a safe and effective vaccine could be available by April. The World Health Organization is saying that young healthy people however might not get a vaccine until 2022.

COHEN: Right, I think sometimes, Jake, that we think, oh, when there's a vaccine, I'll just go to my doctor's office, or I'll go to my local pharmacy and get it. No big deal. It is a big deal. Because we're trying to vaccinate an entire country and that can't happen all at once. So there have been efforts to prioritize. And there are different schemes for prioritizing. But all of them pretty much put young people at the very end because they don't tend to get very sick from COVID. They don't tend to die from COVID. They spread it.

But first we're going to protect first responders. Doctors and nurses and EMTs, elderly people, people in nursing homes. Young people come at the end of the list. And it could take a while to get them.

TAPPER: Although obviously if they have pre-existing conditions. That would put them --

COHEN: That's true.

TAPPER: -- ahead on the list.

COHEN: Correct

TAPPER: And you have some new reporting --

COHEN: Good point.

TAPPER: -- on the stalled AstraZeneca vaccine trail. What's up with that?

COHEN: That's right, so this has been going on for more than a month. And we started asking why is it taking so long and a source explained it to me. So let's take a look at the timeline.

So the AstraZeneca trials started, the Phase III trials started on the 31st. The pause was announced September 9th, so you can see that it didn't go on for very long. And then it wasn't until the week of October 5th, so about a month later, that AstraZeneca got their safety data to the FDA according to this source.

And I was speaking to a former commissioner of the FDA. And he said, look, this is going to take a while potentially. Because, you know, the FDA is going to have a lot of questions. Two volunteers have become sick. They've developed neurological symptoms, both of them and that's a red flag. When you see there are the same kinds of symptoms in more than one volunteer, that is a red flag. The FDA is going to have a lot of questions -- Jake.

TAPPER: And that's why you don't listen to politicians who want a vaccine released --

COHEN: Right.

TAPPER: -- before an election for political reasons when there's safety measures to be taken. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

COHEN: Thanks.

TAPPER: Close to 18 million people tested positive, just as many have been thrown into poverty since this crisis began. That shocking number next.

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[15:35:00]

TAPPER: Back now with our MONEY LEAD, there is still no financial relief for millions of Americans suffering economically because of the pandemic. And today Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican Majority Leader in the Senate made it clear there is virtually no chance of reaching any sort of stimulus deal before the election.

McConnell plans to put a $500 billion proposal on the floor next week and says he will not go any higher despite the fact his offer is about a quarter of what the Democrats have proposed. And even President Trump has signaled he'd be willing to go bigger than both Democrats and Republicans.

CNN's business anchor Julia Chatterley joins us now. And Julia, the administration, the Trump administration reportedly offering more money in some areas but it seems pretty unlikely they will get close to Democrats who are demanding $2.2 trillion in the package. And what does this mean for people?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the stimulus money Muppet show, quite frankly, Jake, where everyone disagrees with everyone.

You're right quite. President Trump earlier today suggested that he'd be willing to go above $1.8 trillion. Within hours Senator Mitch McConnell had ruled that sum out. And why would the Democrats ultimately agree to a paltry $500 billion next week when they've ruled out money that is so much higher than that. It leaves people simply without hope of any support coming at any time soon.

But I actually don't think though the bigger disagreement here is on the size of the package, it's simply how the money is spent. And while these guys continue to argue and don't act, people are simply left with nothing. And that's unacceptable.

TAPPER: The recovery is slowing, what recovery there was. And that's exactly what the data suggests, the data we got today.

CHATTERLEY: Right.

TAPPER: Another 898,000 Americans, almost 900,000 Americans claiming first time jobless benefits. And there still remains a lot of uncertainty about California's true numbers. The Labor Department is using estimates while they deal with fraud and a backlog of claims?

CHATTERLEY: There are all sorts of gray clouds coming out this data, Jake, you're quite right. The risk here is that California's numbers are higher. And let's be clear, the claims number that we saw today is the highest level it's been since August.

Even the silver lining here, the number of people actually getting their hands on cash, the so-called continuing claims dropped. But the positive trend on that to some degree is offset by the number of people who are maxing out on the amount of benefits they can collect so they drop out of the numbers.

You just showed the key figure here, 25 million Americans are claiming some form of benefit for job loss as a result of what we've seen in this pandemic, and we have now got COVID cases rising. We're approaching flu season and any benefit of financial aid is simply fading and here we are.

TAPPER: And now two studies are saying that poverty is higher now than before COVID hit. The stimulus worked for some time but I guess it dissipated fairly quickly.

CHATTERLEY: Exactly right. Short time it worked really well. In fact, 18 million Americans were held out of poverty at the peak of the crisis in May. Fast forward to September and the benefits of the aid rolled off, the bump up, the $600 a week in benefits had stopped. And that number dropped to around 4 million people.

[15:40:00]

But take a look at the poverty rates today, Jake. We have 16 percent of people right now living in poverty, and it is way, way worse for people in minorities compared to the white population in America. It's around a quarter of blacks and Hispanics living in poverty. That's people who can't pay their rent, they can't pay their bills, they can't feed their families. That answers your first question. It's desperate. TAPPER: It's awful. Julia Chatterley, thank you so much.

In our 2020 LEAD, huge lines in battle ground state North Carolina today, the first day of early voting. Senator Kamala Harris had to cancel her travel to the Tar Heel state after two of her campaign staffers tested positive for COVID as the campaign provided an extremely detailed account of staffers and infections.

In stark contrast with the Trump White House, which still hasn't disclosed to the public when the President last tested negative before he got the coronavirus. And whether he possibly infected citizens of Ohio, Minnesota, New Jersey before he announced his infection.

Not that exposing his supporters to potential infection seems to be a particular concern. President Trump's reckless rally in North Carolina ended just a short time ago. But it is a sign North Carolina is a state very much in play and where there remains confusion around mail- in ballots, as CNN's Pamela Brown reports for us now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL FLEMING, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: I want to come out here first thing in the morning and get my vote in as soon as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES: Good morning.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today voters are camped out outside polling places in the battleground state of North Carolina. Some telling CNN they are voting in person because they have second thoughts about vote by mail.

HATTIE REDFEARN, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: We didn't want our ballots to get lost, misplaced, thrown in the trash or whatever's going on. So, to be on the safe side, just come on in, stand in line, be prepared, and here we are.

BROWN: Some Joe Biden supporters are even admitting they changed their mind on vote by mail after the President lashed out against it.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mail ballots are a very dangerous thing for this country.

BROWN: And over concerns the Postal Service can't handle the crush of ballots.

But a new court ruling is causing election officials in the Tar Heel state to scramble. A federal judge handed Democrats a win upholding a policy allowing ballots that arrive through November 12th to be counted if they were mailed on or before election day.

The same judge also handing Republicans a win in a ruling that makes it harder for voters to fix absentee ballots with missing signatures. Both rulings may be appealed.

In Georgia, massive lines earlier this week, some even eight hours long have started to ease up.

SEAN TERRELL, GEORGIA VOTER: Oh, it sucks but, you know, I'd rather be out here doing my civic duty than not.

BROWN: Today the Secretary of State say they're seeing improvements on wait times caused by a statewide capacity problem after the state's election vendor increased bandwidth.

With just 19 days to go, more than 17 million Americans have already voted. This according to data from 45 states. So far, the states with the most ballot returns, Florida, Texas, and California. And the Golden State, Republicans have until the close of business today to remove unofficial ballot drop boxes set out in four counties. But the state Republican Party says it will ignore a cease and desist from the State Attorney General and Secretary of State to remove them.

ALEX PADILLA, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We certainly hope to comply with the cease and desist orders. But we're inviting people to submit information if they continue to see these very problematic fake drop boxes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Jake, a source familiar tells me that Republican officials do plan to appeal over that North Carolina case when the ballots should be received by. And just to put this all in perspective, we're less than three weeks away from election day and there is still ongoing litigation in key battleground states. You have North Carolina but you also have Pennsylvania and Wisconsin over which ballots will actually get counted -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown with the latest in our "MAKING IT COUNT" series. Politics keeping its boot on the neck of science. A new investigation you'll see first on THE LEAD what one CDC official calls a cluster "f" of a response as COVID began its killing spree in the U.S. Stay with us.

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[15:45:00]

TAPPER: The HEALTH LEAD, "Inside the Fall of the CDC." It's a new stunning investigation just out from "ProPublica" describing the crisis at the Centers for Disease Control and its handling of the pandemic. With internal e-mails and interviews that report details how White House pressure left CDC officials muzzled. How politics interfered with decision making at the highest levels.

And missteps at CDC itself, leading to confusion and delays. One e- mail revealing the frustration over revising guidelines on reopening churches.

CDC's head of coronavirus respond told his colleagues, quote, I'm very troubled on this Sunday morning that there will be people who will get sick and perhaps die because of what we were forced to do, unquote. I want to bring in "ProPublica's" senior reporter Patricia Callahan.

She's among the journalists breaking this great story today. Patricia, thanks so much for joining us. So, you obtained hundreds of e-mails and government documents. You interviewed more than 30 CDC employees, contractors, Trump administration officials. You're reporting opens with that frustration from CDC's chief official on coronavirus response around Memorial Day over changed guidance on church reopenings. Describe what led to that e-mail.

[15:50:00]

PATRICIA CALLAHAN, SENIOR REPORTER, PROPUBLICA: So, the CDC head issued safety advice for houses of worship earlier in the spring. And the White House fought over that language and ultimately tabled it, didn't put it out.

The President, right before Memorial Day weekend, started blaming Democrats for keeping churches closed and suddenly the CDC found itself on his front burner and they had a very short period of time to reconcile the differences with the administration and put their guidance out.

And they did that in sort of going through the last-minute edits from the White House they rejected one that said that churches -- that the administration wanted to delete a line that said, you know, that churches and mosques and synagogues should consider suspending the use of choirs. Because their own research had shown that a single choir member singing can infect an enormous amount of people, can lead to a super-spreader event.

And they wanted to make sure people understood that something, you know, that brings people great comfort in their faith, can lead to injury, it can lead to illness and death. And so, they wanted to include that line.

The White House, after the guidance went up called and said, you know, that this was insubordination, that they should not have made these changes, that the White House changes were not optional, they were mandatory. And so, the CDC had to take that guidance down and replace it with a version that didn't mention that singing would lead to illness and death.

TAPPER: It's incredible.

CALLAHAN: And the head of the CDC response at the time, you could just hear the anguish and anger that he's pouring out into this e-mail to his colleagues.

TAPPER: And you write about White House meddling notably from Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law and daughter and son-in-law. What did you learn from your reporting about their involvement in White House decisions?

CALLAHAN: Well, we heard from people who said there were a lot of sort of young men in suits with -- it was, you know, red ties and beards who seemed -- who were sort of proteges of the President's son-in-law, who would show up to these meetings, you know, that had absolutely no experience in public health.

And we also saw that the President's daughter Ivanka weighed in on guidance for reopening schools. So, there was this constant cast of characters that had nothing to do -- no backgrounds in public health that were weighing in on these decisions that would influence, you know, the safety of the American people. And it was --

TAPPER: You described CDC officials as muzzled by the White House and the Coronavirus Task Force.

You quote a senior CDC official saying, quote, when it mattered the most, they shut us up, a senior CDC official said. The threat is clear. If we want to ever be able to talk tomorrow, or next week, or next month or whatever is being dangled in front of us, you stay inside the lines.

And that wasn't just about fear of losing their jobs, you write about the fear of the White House cutting off communication with the CDC.

CALLAHAN: Yes, there was always this threat that if you stepped outside the lines, you would lose your seat at the table. And I think this is something that we really heard over and over again from people, some of whom like wept when they talked to us about it, because it put them in this position where they had to decide, you know, do you go along?

Do you speak up, or do you put your head down and go along? And there was intense division among CDC staff about which was the right way to -- which was the right road to take. And whether that acquiescence of their leaders, you know, was part of their undoing.

It was sort of the ultimate sign that this agency that's a model for the world had just so thoroughly lost its way that one person said to us, you know, the cowardice and the caving are just disgusting to me.

TAPPER: Patricia Callahan, thank you so much. A chilling report from "ProPublica" about the CDC.

Coming up, you may not have to worry about your uncle talking about what he saw on Facebook this Thanksgiving. Dr. Fauci is warning about getting together this holiday season. That's ahead.

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[15:55:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: Welcome to our second hour of THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're just 19 days away from election day. And despite President Trump today saying on "Fox Business" that the U.S. is doing, quote, fine with coronavirus -- the U.S. is not. Unless, of course, you think an average of 724 Americans dying every day is fine. Unless you think the highest official death rate in the world is fine. Unless you think these alarming new warning signs are fine. In North Carolina, where the President held another reckless rally

this afternoon, and early voting starts today, the state is reporting its highest daily case count ever.