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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Stopping COVID in Schools; Stimulus Negotiations Continue; Melania Trump Still Recovering From COVID-19. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 20, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And special live coverage starts Thursday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

And our special coverage today continues now with Jake Tapper.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin today with the 2020 lead.

Two days ahead of the final Trump-Biden debate, and two weeks out from Election Day, President Trump doing all he can in this final sprint to rally his base. He's calling into his favorite television channel, continuing his reckless rally spree today in Erie, Pennsylvania, coronavirus pandemic be damned, and already downplaying expectations for the debate by attacking the moderator, the highly regarded Kristen Welker, complaining about the topics.

Plus, the nonpartisan Debate Commission has just announced new enforcement rules of debate rules, saying they will mute candidate microphones during some portions of the debate.

And, of course, looming over all of this is the deadly coronavirus pandemic, which is getting worse in the United States. Yesterday, the U.S. recorded the highest number of cases on a Monday since July 20, which was, of course, during the summer peak. It is a stunning 40 percent increase from the total just one week ago last Monday.

And we have just learned that first lady Melania Trump will not travel to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with the president, as previously planned, to go to the rally tonight because of the lingering effects of her coronavirus infection.

Let's start with CNN's Ryan Nobles at the White House for us.

Ryan, what do we know about the first lady Melania Trump backing out of going to this rally?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, first of all, it was significant that Melania Trump was going to appear with the president tonight in Pennsylvania, because she's had a little to almost no contribution to his reelection campaign.

She did give a speech during the Republican National Convention, but she hasn't participated in any rallies. So, the fact that she was going to be there tonight was a very big development for the Trump campaign.

It's also significant the reason that she has decided not to travel with the president tonight, and that is because she is still experiencing some lingering symptoms related to her coronavirus infection, her staff telling us that she still has a lingering cough, and that she just does not feel well enough to travel.

Now, the first lady has tested negative for the coronavirus. Her staff tells us that there's not a risk of her spreading the virus. So, this has more to do with just how she feels.

But, Jake, the other thing that's important here is that, at this point, there are no plans for her to get out on the campaign trail in any foreseeable fashion in the future.

And first ladies are usually among the most important surrogates for candidates, both incumbents and challengers, of course, Dr. Jill Biden on the campaign trail quite a bit for Joe Biden. That appears that that's just not going to be the case with Melania Trump in campaign 2020 -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Ryan, it's pretty clear that the U.S. is now in a second wave of the pandemic, or maybe we never actually left the first wave. Either way, it's getting worse.

And yet President Trump's closing message to the American people again is attacking Dr. Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert?

NOBLES: Yes, at the very least, it seems strange, Jake.

We have seen this building over the past few months on the campaign trail. The president has been very critical of scientists in general that have been giving him advice about the coronavirus. He's never specifically attacked Dr. Fauci until the last few weeks or so.

But I can tell you, being at his rallies, that his supporters will often catcall Dr. Fauci's name, tell President Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. And he's now seems to lean into this by attacking him directly, accusing him of being a Democrat, which he is not, accusing him of being friends with Governor Andrew Cuomo and somehow suggesting that that means that he is a political partisan.

Dr. Fauci has tried not to take the bait. He stepped away from this. He said today that this is just about business and it's about the business of helping the American people get through this. But, at this point, he's become a political figure.

And, Jake, we should point out, it's something that the president's campaign advisers wish that he would not do.

TAPPER: And it's also undermining a very important public health voice at a time that the public needs to hear from him.

Ryan Nobles, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

As Joe Biden prepares for his final debate with President Trump on Thursday, he's picking up two interesting endorsements, one from a former chairman of the Republican National Committee, and another from a notable military leader who has never before endorsed anyone for president.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now live.

And, Arlette, these are two notable endorsements for the Biden campaign, with just two weeks left to go.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Jake.

And these endorsements speak to the appeal, the wide appeal that Joe Biden has with voters. First off, you have Michael Steele, a former chairman of the Republican National Committee, voicing his support for the former vice president.

He's joining that group The Lincoln Project, that group of Republicans who adamantly opposes and is quite vocal about their opposition to President Trump, Steele saying that he believes that Biden is someone who can heal some of the division in the country.

And then there is also this op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" from retired Navy Admiral William McRaven. He is that former top special commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

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He revealed in that op-ed that he has voted for Joe Biden. He said that he considers himself a Second Amendment, strong defense type of conservative, but he's also someone who believes that black lives matter and believes in climate change.

And in his endorsement of Joe Biden, when he said he voted for him, he said that he believes that Biden can restore leadership on the national stage.

And this just speaks to that breadth of appeal that the Biden campaign believes that the former vice president has. You saw over the course of the Democratic National Committee many Republicans coming out in support of him. And Biden often talks about how he will be president for all Americans, as he's trying to appeal to voters of every stripe.

TAPPER: Arlette, today, the Biden campaign is honing in on the Rust Belt as an area of the country where they hope Biden can win over Trump voters in this final push.

SAENZ: Yes, this is going to be a critical area that the Biden campaign is really honing in on.

Today, you have Kamala Harris holding a virtual early vote rally, as in-person early voting is under way right now in the state of Wisconsin, Jill Biden is in Michigan on the grounds making four stops. And, tomorrow, we will see President Obama hitting the campaign trail in Pennsylvania, as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are really those key states that the Biden campaign feels that could be pivotal to their nomination and election.

Those were states that President Trump flipped back in 2016 that they are devoting significant time and resources to have Biden flip back to the blue column in November -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, we will see.

Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.

Admiral William McRaven, former commander of special operations, will be joining us live at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on THE LEAD to talk about this extraordinary endorsement of Joe Biden that he's made.

In our money lead today, right now, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Stephen Mnuchin are speaking in a last-ditch effort to come to some sort of agreement on a stimulus bill, a relief package for citizens, just hours before the deadline.

Millions of Americans have, needless to say, been waiting months for some additional coronavirus relief, including the eight million people who have entered poverty, and six million people who have applied for food stamps just since May, making this bipartisan agreement crucial for millions of Americans who cannot afford rent or tuition or other necessities.

CNN's Julia Chatterley joins us now.

Julia, does it look like a deal will be made today?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Got to define what we mean by deal here.

There's still plenty of skepticism, Jake, about whether we can get a deal through Congress, even if those key negotiators kind of agree terms today. Remember, this is not a two-way fight. This is effectively a three-way fight. You have got the Democrats, you have got the White House, and then you have got Senate Republicans.

Up until just under an hour ago, we had no real indication from the Senate leadership that they'd be willing to consider a bill at that kind of price tag, if we're talking somewhere between, what, $1.8 trillion and $2 trillion.

Then Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said, look, if the House can clear this bill, if it has a promise from the president that he will sign it, they will at least put it on the floor and consider it. That's a huge change.

He also, though, didn't say whether he was happy with the price tag. So, at that point, if it can clear the House, if we can get an agreement, if the president will agree to sign it, it comes down to a political calculation. What's the cost of signing up to a big splashy deal like this for Senate Republicans vs. the political cost of doing nothing?

And that's the sad fact.

TAPPER: Do we know what might be in this bill, if there were to be a bill?

CHATTERLEY: Wow, there's general agreement that a further stimulus check is needed, that there needs to be a further bump up in unemployment benefits, more support for small businesses, too.

But this is where it gets really complicated, because, when you're talking about a bill of this size, there's a whole load of issues within there.

Take a look at some of these. Remember, earlier this week, Nancy Pelosi talking about the specific language on testing and tracing, state and local governments. It's been a problem for months. Simply, how is the money going to be spent? Does it have to be specific to COVID-related issues or, as the Democrats would like to see, is it allowed to be spent on other issues, other critical things, child care assistance, Earned Income Tax Credits?

All of these threads need tying up if we can agree a deal here, and, of course, time is slipping away.

TAPPER: What happens if they don't come to an agreement?

CHATTERLEY: Great question.

There is a window of opportunity, perhaps, depending on the election, to do something to negotiate afterwards. If we don't do that, Congress has to come back to the drawing table to keep the government funded, to prevent a shutdown before December the 11th.

And then, if we don't get a deal before then, we're looking at post the inauguration next year. And, Jake, at that point, we will be talking about almost a year since the CARES Act was signed. It's unimaginable for the millions of people that are struggling here.

And it's a lifeline they need desperately.

TAPPER: All right, Julia Chatterley, thank you so much.

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Coronavirus cases just reached a high that has not been seen in the United States in months. What could this mean for the weeks ahead? And what could it mean for your possible holiday plans?

Plus, a cluster of states that Donald Trump won in 2016 now look to be on Joe Biden's path to victory. But we have been here before poll-wise -- what the path to 270 could look like for both Biden and Trump.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: In our national lead now: Health officials in Utah are

frantically trying to find more room for intensive care patients, as one of its biggest hospitals there is overflowing due to the spike in COVID cases.

This is one of the 14 states nationwide seeing record high hospitalizations in the last week; 31 states are seeing a steady rise in cases.

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And, as CNN's Erica Hill reports for us now, experts say this is only going to get worse.

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ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The dreaded second wave now washing over the U.S.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Nearly every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID-related hospitalizations over the last week.

HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rise in hospitalizations, 14 hitting new peaks.

It's not just hospital setting records. Nationwide, the virus is surging.

STEVE ADLER (D), MAYOR OF AUSTIN, TEXAS: I think we're all real nervous about what could be coming.

HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week, the U.S. added more than 58,000, topping a Monday record set three months ago.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country.

HILL: Final preparations under way for Thursday's presidential debate in Nashville, as Tennessee logs its highest number of new cases in a single day since July.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: For the first time in many areas, we're seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities.

HILL: That silent spread fueling new concern and advice about the holidays.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's unnatural for us to think, oh, those people that we love and trust could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.

HILL: The head of the National Institutes of Health the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: For the first time in 27 years, there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.

HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: There's going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad, you're going to get scared, you're going to get depressed. This is a normal response to a very stressful situation.

HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help.

And there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation, including open windows, spacing, desk shields and handwashing greatly reduce the spread in classrooms, hopefully allowing more scenes like this, a bright spot amid an uncertain future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: One bright spot for baseball fans, of course, the World Series starts tonight, and there will be some fans in attendance, about 11,000, though that is the lowest number since I believe it was 1909, masks and social distancing required.

I also wanted to just alert you to this new poll that came out from Axios/Ipsos, which asked respondents whether the president's COVID-19 diagnosis had done anything to impact their view of him and how they trust him on the virus. Bottom line, Jake, it didn't help the president. In fact, 37 percent said they're now less likely to trust him when it comes to coronavirus. Just 16 percent said they trust him more; 46 percent, Jake, remain unchanged.

TAPPER: All right, Erica Hill, thank you so much for that report.

Dr. Peter Hotez, co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital, joins me now live.

Dr. Hotez, this map of new cases is alarming. And do you think it's going to get worse before it gets any better?

HOTEZ: It almost certainly will, Jake. It's going to get worse.

We're seeing now the fall-winter surge that we have all been predicting. And, unfortunately, now it's starting to happen. It looks like it's revving up first in the Upper Midwest, as you pointed out, or we heard earlier, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, and then going into Montana, the Dakotas, and now Utah.

So this is where we will see it first. But I would imagine it's going to soon strike all of the Northern states. And by next week or the week after, we will probably be up to 70,000 new cases a day and continue to go up from there. So, I think there's two parts to this message. One is, this won't go

on forever. There is some good news next year. And I think that's really important, because people can start to despair pretty easily. I do think we will have vaccines available next year.

And by the middle of next year, certainly by this time next year, we will be in a much better place than we are now. And so our lives will get better. But we have the stark reality that the next four or five months are going to be a tough time for our nation.

And be ready, and think about who you're going to social distance with. Try to identify a small working social distancing unit, try not to be totally alone during this period. And look out for your mental health, because the normal response to this is, is people are going to get sad and upset and maybe even depressed.

So, have access to mental health counseling. In other words, put the put those belts and suspenders in and get ready.

TAPPER: So, whoever the president is in three weeks or president- elect is, you -- tell me if I'm right here.

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You would want them to set an example for masks, social distancing, handwashing, avoiding crowds, avoiding indoor crowds especially. And then you would also want that person to provide some national leadership when it comes to a big and ambitious contact -- testing and then contact tracing campaign, so that the virus can be isolated.

It doesn't have to be as awful as it looks like it's going to be, is my point.

HOTEZ: Well, you hit on it, Jake. That's exactly right.

Obviously, with a vaccine or multiple vaccines, that would put us in a better position. But even without vaccines, there's an enormous amount we can do. Look at what some of the European countries were able to do over this year, some of the Asian countries. We did not do that. We never implemented a national plan for COVID-19 control.

And in its place, we put out an anti-science disinformation campaign, and the results have been devastating. Over 200,000 Americans have perished. I'm not saying we could have saved all of those lives, but I think the majority, we could have. And that's what gets me upset. That's what gets the scientific community upset.

We didn't -- we don't -- didn't have to live this way. This did not have to happen. And I'm also worried now about that immediate post- election period. I mean, even during this year, we never really had a national response. We had the states in the lead and some supply chain management and backup manufacturing support from the federal government.

What happens after the inauguration, if the election goes against the president, when this lame-duck -- lame-duck session? Will there be a checkout from the from the executive branch of the federal government? And what psychological impact will that have on Americans?

So that's yet another worry. So this is going to be an awful time. And by the time the inauguration comes around, it's going to -- it's going to be a difficult period in American life. And it's going to take quite a lot to turn this around.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you so much.

Keeping parents and teachers healthy and keeping parents sane, some simple steps just proven to be effective to prevent COVID in the classroom.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: We are back with our health lead and a brand-new study which could help schools deal with the spread of coronavirus.

The study finds something as easy as opening windows in a classroom can make a big difference. The researchers also looked at installing shields on students' desks.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is standing by with details.

Elizabeth, I think I speak for a lot of parents when I say, I want my kids to go back to school and learn in-person. I want them to do it safely, of course. What exactly can schools do to make it safe?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it's so interesting.

These physicists from the University of New Mexico said, let's simulate a classroom and do all sorts of different things to that classroom and see what ends up happening.

So let me show you a picture basically of what they did. They looked at a classroom of nine children. Obviously, classes are really much bigger than that. And they placed them -- or they -- the fake children were placed seven feet, 10 inches apart. And also the teacher was that same distance apart from the nearest student.

I want you to focus on that child in the middle, because that's going to be important in a minute. So, what they found is that even when kids are spaced that far apart, that, unfortunately, particles containing the virus can still go from person to person, even though it's more than six feet.

So, what helped? Opening windows. Using the A.C. or the heat to get some circulation going, and also shields, they could be glass, they could be plastic, attached to the front of the desk. They were really surprised, actually -- I talked to one of the authors -- went much further than they thought to helping. Their recommendations, keep people away from the A.C. or the heat outlets, because, apparently, particles tend to congregate there. And reduce the middle seats.

So, obviously, that's tough in a real classroom with 15, 20, 25, 30 students. But the more that you can do sort of a perimeter without having a middle student, the better, because that middle students can transmit to a whole bunch of people. If you're on the perimeter, you're next to fewer people. So they said that would help as well -- Jake.

TAPPER: Elizabeth, let's talk about treatments for COVID.

Researchers have found mixed results, mixed results for one anti- inflammatory drug and whether it can reduce the risk of death in critically ill COVID patients. Tell us more. Which drug is this?

COHEN: So, the drug is called tocilizumab. And it might be familiar to a lot of people because it's a fairly common rheumatoid arthritis drug. It's an anti-inflammatory.

So there was a lot of hope, Jake, that if it controls inflammation in arthritis, it might control the inflammation that's been responsible for so much damage in COVID-19.

But two clinical trials showed, unfortunately, that it did not work. In a clinical trial, you assemble a group of patients or you sort of plan for a group of patients, and you give, say, half of them the drug and you don't give it to the other half, and you compare the two groups.

There was one study that did show that it worked actually quite a bit, by 30 percent. But that was an observational study. That's where they looked backwards to see, the folks that we gave this to, how did they do? That's not as reliable as a clinical trial.