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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Early Voting Surges; Road to Victory?; Interview With Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL). Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 20, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:53]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our money lead: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is projecting optimism, saying that, by the end of today -- quote -- "hopefully," Democrats and the Trump administration will have an agreement for another coronavirus relief package.

The clock started on Sunday, when she said they had just 48 hours to reach an agreement if they wanted a bill passed by Election Day. Now she is downplaying, however, her own deadline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Let me just say, it isn't that this day was the day that we would have a deal. It was a day where we would have our terms on the table to be able to go the next step.

And, again, but legislation takes a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Here to discuss, the Senate minority whip and Democratic Senator of Illinois Dick Durbin.

Senator Durbin, thanks for joining us.

So you're on the Senate Appropriations Committee. Do you know what Pelosi and Mnuchin have agreed to so far? Do you think a deal is going to happen?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): No, there's no update that's been given to us.

But it was encouraging for the speaker to say that, finally, the actual terms are on the table.

Jake, we face a serious epidemic. And it may get worse. We face a serious state of our economy, and many people are suffering. We need a serious bipartisan bill. And, at some point, Senator McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, has to get off the sidelines and actually sit down to the table with Democrats.

It's not just a radical idea. TAPPER: McConnell said that he would put any deal reached by Pelosi

and Mnuchin, he would put it on the Senate floor, though he would not say that -- whether or not he's comfortable with a price tag of around $2 trillion. We know he isn't.

Do you think, if Mnuchin and Pelosi arrived at a compromise, and the Democrats in the House passed it, and it was on the Senate floor, do you think it would pass? Would there be enough votes for it?

DURBIN: Well, we have 47. Democrats. It usually takes 60 votes to do something significant. So we need 13 Republicans for that to happen; 20 of the 53 Republicans have said they're not going to vote for a penny. They don't want to do anything to stimulate the economy or to deal with the coronavirus epidemic we're facing.

So it remains to be seen whether there are enough votes, even if all the Democrats support it.

TAPPER: President Trump continues to claim that he wants a bigger stimulus package than even Pelosi is proposing.

I mean, if Republicans won't even agree to $2 trillion, how would more get passed? I mean, I don't even understand this Kabuki of him saying he wants a bigger package, when McConnell is out there saying he doesn't want anything more than $500 billion.

DURBIN: Jake, this is a classic good cop/bad cop on the Republican side.

You have McConnell saying he's going to be a budget hawk and he doesn't have the votes. You have the president saying, well, the Democrats are lowballing it, we need a much bigger number.

I don't know who's in charge over there. It seems like there's real confusion.

TAPPER: You're also on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is poised to vote on Judge Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court in just two days.

Groups such as NARAL and Demand Justice have called for the replacement of Senator Dianne Feinstein, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, after they didn't think she was strong enough against Barrett's nomination and she praised Senator Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the committee, how he handled the hearings.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer just said that he had a long and serious talk with Feinstein. What was that talk about? And what do you think? Should Feinstein be replaced?

DURBIN: Well, let me get down to the bottom line here. We have a job to do.

The Republicans are rushing through this Supreme Court nominee -- nomination of Amy Coney Barrett and want to get it done before November 3, because, on November 10, the future the Affordable Care Act will be decided in an oral argument in the Supreme Court.

They want their judge on the court in time to eliminate the Affordable Care Act. The president has told us that. That, to me, is the overriding issue here.

I'm not privy to the conversation between Senator Schumer and Senator Feinstein. All I can tell you is, we have work to do this week to let the American people know what's at stake with this nominee.

[16:35:01]

TAPPER: Do you think she didn't do a good enough job?

DURBIN: Well, I think the ending was not clear. We had made it clear throughout the entire hearing that this was the wrong thing to do, the wrong time to do it, and the wrong person at this moment in history.

We're in the midst of a pandemic. The idea of putting someone on the court who's going to eliminate health insurance for 23 million Americans, and really lessen the coverage that the rest of us enjoy in our health insurance, it's exactly the wrong time. That point was made clearly, despite the last few minutes of videotape of that video hearing.

TAPPER: So it sounds like you took issue with her praising of Graham and giving him a hug.

But, beyond that, do you think that she did not lead an effective enough charge against Barrett's, as the presiding Democrat in the hearing?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, I thought her opening statement and questions were good throughout. I sat next to her throughout the hearing. I stayed in the hearing during the entire four days.

I think the Democrats really presented a powerful case. The shot at the end may have been misleading as to what the rest of the committee felt about this. But we are determined to handle this responsibly. It's a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land, health insurance for millions of Americans at stake.

The stakes just couldn't be higher.

TAPPER: If Barrett's confirmed, as it looks like will happen, and Democrats win back the Senate -- we don't know if that's going to happen or not -- but, hypothetically, if that were to happen, would you vote to add to the number of justices on the Supreme Court?

DURBIN: I haven't made up my mind on that issue. It's a serious one, very serious.

I think the American people want balance on our federal courts. And for the last three-and-a-half years, they have watched Senator McConnell load these courts up with right-wing ideologues. We need real balance if we want to get real justice.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, thank you so much for your time, sir. Good to see you again.

DURBIN: Thank you.

TAPPER: More than 32 million ballots already in two weeks before Election Day, but expect results in 14 days.

Just how long America may need to wait, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:45]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: The path to the White House almost certainly goes through Florida, or does it? Either way, that's where Senator Kamala Harris campaign yesterday. And President Trump has made four visits in the last two weeks.

So, who has the advantage? And is there any way for a campaign to pull out a win without that crucial battleground state?

CNN's resident forecaster, Harry Enten, joins me live.

Harry, I want to take a closer look at Florida in a minute. But give us a reality check right now. We're exactly two weeks from the election. What does the road to 270 electoral votes look like?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, I mean, look at this particular point, if you look at the CNN ratings, what you see is that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a clear advantage, right?

What you see is, at this point, we're giving him 290 to Trump's 163 with a bunch of battleground states that we haven't allocated yet, such as Florida. But at this particular point, what I would say is that Biden has the advantage. Of course, let's see where we are in about two weeks.

TAPPER: So let's dive into Florida now. Who has the advantage there? That's Trump's new home state. He changed his residence from New York to Florida.

And how are the crucial voting blocs in that state leaning?

ENTEN: Right.

So, if you look at the polls, it's a pretty tight race at this particular point, right? You see that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a nominal advantage, up by three points. And part of that, if you look at the crucial groups, right, if you think about Florida, I think you think about two groups.

You think about senior citizens, and you think about Hispanic voters. And what you see right now, among those groups, compared to 2016, is that Joe Biden's doing better among those voters, senior citizens. He's tied in the polls right now. Trump was leading among that group by nine points in the final 2016 polls. But Joe Biden's doing a little bit worse among Hispanic voters. His

lead is 14 points to Hillary Clinton's lead in the 2016 polls, when it was about 21 points.

So those are sort of, say, offsetting each other. But here's the key thing about Florida and why it's so important, right? Look at this. In the election results since 1928, the state of Florida has voted with the winner all but twice in 1960 in 1992. So, if you win Florida, you're probably going to win the White House.

TAPPER: Can either candidate win, practically speaking, without Florida?

ENTEN: Yes, I think it's much easier for former Vice President Joe Biden to win without Florida, right? If he just wins in those Upper Midwest states that Donald Trump won, say, four years ago, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, and you add those to the Clinton states, he gets to 278 electoral votes.

That's a pretty clear path. I can paint many other maps. For President Trump, it's much more difficult, but it's possible, right? Even if he were to lose Florida, but then say when all the other states he won in 2016, he would get to 277 electoral votes.

It's possible, but that really is the only path he could do it with, Jake.

TAPPER: And we know Joe Biden is focused on winning back those three Rust Belt states, Pennsylvania at the heart of it.

The Supreme Court there, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, and then also the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania can count ballots received up to three days after Election Day. How might that change the ground game there?

ENTEN: Yes, what we should point out is that former Vice President Joe Biden holds a clear lead in Pennsylvania at this point, if you look at the average of polls, right? It's seven points. He's over 50 percent.

But, more than that, if you dig deep and look at the difference between those who say they're going to vote via absentee ballot vs. voting on Election Day, you see those voting via absentee overwhelmingly favor Joe Biden by nearly 75 points, vs. those on Election Day, who favor Trump by a little over 20 points.

[16:45:09]

So, the more absentees that are counted, the better it is for Biden.

TAPPER: But that's a good heads-up for people, because if President Trump comes out on election night, and says, look, we have won Pennsylvania based on Election Day voting alone, that's not the whole picture. And that's misleading.

And no network should announce that that's based in reality at all. Those absentee ballots, vote by mail, very significant.

Harry Enten, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

In our Making It Count series, long lines starting early this morning in Wisconsin, as that critical swing state kicks off its first day of in-person voting. The election is exactly two weeks from today. And early voter turnout is already smashing records. More than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide.

But, as CNN's Abby Phillip reports for us now, legal battles in some key battleground states are far from over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't procrastinate, and vote early.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just two weeks to go, and it appears that's the way many Americans are feeling about this 2020 election.

LATINA WILLIAMS, WISCONSIN VOTER: I would rather get it done -- done and over with, and do it early. That way, I know I have voted.

PHILLIP: So far, more than 32 million ballots have been cast nationwide, whether by mail or in-person.

On the first day of in-person voting in Wisconsin, voters braving hours-long lines and rising COVID numbers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't come and do it, you don't have a right to complain. Come and voice your opinion. That's what America is about.

PHILLIP: Huge lines snaking around entire buildings or down city blocks becoming a familiar sight all over the country, many voters even lining up before sunrise, rain or shine.

Pending legal challenges in several states, including some battleground states, are far from over.

DAN PETRY, WISCONSIN VOTER: It's one of the most important elections, obviously. There's so much riding on the line.

PHILLIP: In Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruling on Monday the state can count mail-in ballots if they're sent in by Election Day and received within three days, even if they do not have a legible postmark, something the president is already attacking.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. What kind of a thing? So what does that mean?

QUESTION: John Roberts.

TRUMP: We're going to wait -- we're going to wait until after November 3 and start announcing states? That's crazy. PHILLIP: Pennsylvania state law says that the counting of absentee

ballots cannot begin until Election Day, which, combined with the court ruling allowing ballots to be received three days after Election Day, means we may not know the results of the presidential race for several days after November 3.

JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You won't have the precise number, certainly, for a few days. But I think you're going to have a real good sense of where things are going.

PHILLIP: Meanwhile, in North Carolina, the state elections board now extending the deadline to accept mail-in ballots postmarked by Election Day through November 12, more than a week after the election.

But the legal battle is still ongoing. As of this morning, in North Carolina, 1.9 million ballots have been cast. That represents 25 percent of the state's registered voters. And in Florida, voters are turning out in droves on the first day of early in-person voting.

The state says more than 366,000 Floridians cast votes Monday. By this morning, Florida was just shy of three million ballots cast overall. The same time four years ago, Florida had just over 1.6 million total ballots cast.

TRACY ALSTON-BUNN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: If you're not going to vote, don't complain for the next four years. That's the way I look at it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP: So, a lot of voters are telling us that they're concerned about the mail system.

But check out what's going on in Michigan. Today, we learned that Michigan has already received three million requests for mail-in ballots. Half of those have already been received two weeks before Election Day. By comparison, in all of 2016's presidential election, 4.8 million voters in that state voted.

The governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, saying that they are on track to have more people vote this year than ever before in the state's history -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's fantastic news. Whoever you're going to vote for, make sure you vote.

Abby Phillip, thanks so much.

Muted microphone are not, the attack lines President Trump seems to be warming up for Thursday's debate, that's next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:45]

TAPPER: And we're back with some breaking news in our 2020 lead.

Multiple sources telling CNN now that President Trump abruptly ended a solo interview with CBS' "60 Minutes" today, and the president did not return to the room for a joint interview with Vice President Mike Pence.

President Trump sat down with CBS News' Lesley Stahl for 45 minutes before getting up and leaving and telling CBS that he thought they had enough material.

Let's discuss with our team.

So, Laura, let me start with you.

We don't know what prompted the president's exit. But he's now on Twitter, seemingly attacking Lesley Stahl for not wearing a mask or something. Obviously, this is the same president who himself has not only been reluctant to wear a mask, but has been out there undermining the cause of wearing a mask.

And, again, I don't know that there's any strategy to this. It just seems kind of like unhinged behavior. But what's your take?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we know that President Trump, when he feels under attack, tends to lash out at the person nearest to him.

And as we're about less than two weeks out from the election, he -- the administration and Trump (AUDIO GAP) feeling pressure, given that, according to all polls, he is trailing Biden right now.

And so, as those around him and as his advisers try to get him to focus on issues that they think would actually help him with voters, we have seen the president repeatedly over the last few days attack infectious disease expert Fauci repeatedly, and also now attacking Lesley Stahl for reasons that we aren't quite sure about just yet.

[16:55:15]

TAPPER: Yes, I'm trying to figure out, Sabrina, what the message is, the president's closing argument.

It seems to be from him in his campaign something along the lines of, we should make fun of people who have stutters, we should slime Democrats with unfounded allegations, Lesley Stahl is bad, Dr. Fauci is bad.

I'm not sure that this is a winning argument?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm not even sure it's an argument. There doesn't appear to be a clear and coherent strategy.

And that is something that has really defined President Trump's reelection campaign, ever since the coronavirus pandemic took hold, and has really defined the contours of the race. He is lashing out, as Laura said. And I think you have seen the

president increasingly frustrated, as polls show what is an uphill climb for him to earn a second term in the White House.

And so, certainly, going into the second and final presidential debate, it's not clear what kind of message he will bring in what is the last high-profile opportunity to make the case to the American public. And so, instead, what he is doing once again, as we have seen him do time and again, is cast doubt on the integrity of the election, sow more confusion around public health guidelines, all of which is to try and shirk responsibility, of course, for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

But none of that really comports with the reality of most Americans at home. You have those numbers up every day, more than eight million cases across the United States, a death toll that has now surpassed 220,000.

TAPPER: Yes.

SIDDIQUI: And so, in the final stretch of the race, I think more Americans want to hear what perhaps he would do differently or why they should give him a second chance.

TAPPER: Tens of millions of Americans have already voted.

But, Laura, we're two days away from the final debate. After the last debate, Governor Chris Christie, who helped Trump prepare, admitted that Trump was too hot. He today said that President Trump might change his strategy this time around.

What would you advise President Trump to do at this debate? And do think it could have any -- could make a difference.

BARRON-LOPEZ: I think it's really difficult to imagine what President Trump would do at this debate.

But, based on my conversations with voters, whether it's undecided voters -- and we know there are very few of those undecided voters still left, but they are looking for some kind of clear message from him, whether it's about the economy, whether it's about health care.

Some undecided female voters that I have spoken to recently said that they have no clue what the president's health care plan is. And, again, that's been a theme across his four years, which is just talking about repealing the Affordable Care Act, but not providing a replacement for it.

In order to reach and even win back potentially some of the voters that are moving away from him, some of the college-educated white women and college-educated white men who were more for him in 2016 and now have moved away from him, I'm not sure that he can win them back.

But you would assume that he would need to focus more on issues that they care about. And, right now, that's coronavirus, and, right now, that's the economy and that jobs, based on all the polling. But, again, we're hearing that, at this debate. Trump may very well

focus on Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son, and the potential disinformation that is filtrating about Hunter Biden, as well as attacking Fauci. That could be something that he repeats at the debate.

TAPPER: Laura Barron-Lopez, Sabrina Siddiqui, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

The United States has lost more than 220,000 lives to the coronavirus, the highest number, according to official numbers, in the world.

And we would like to take this moment to remember just one of those lives last.

David Benfield (ph) was 60 years old. He died of respiratory and heart failure after a month-long battle with COVID. His family members -- his family remembers him as a caring man with the values that reflected his small town of Clarkesville, Georgia.

He was an active grandfather to his two grandsons. Whenever they visited, Benfield spent mornings cooking breakfast with them, and evenings teaching them how to make bonfires. Benfield was also a loyal worker, willing to help anyone in his small community.

His only daughter says she misses the simplicity and the kindness that he brought into everyone's lives.

May his memory and the memories of all those lost in this horrible pandemic be a blessing.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you tomorrow.

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