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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Campaign Ad Blitz; Pandemic Escalating. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 21, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: There is not a single state in the United States, not a single one, trending right now in the right direction when it comes to COVID cases.

[16:30:06]

Twenty-six states are reporting a rise in cases over the last week. And yet some officials in the White House are still pushing this herd immunity approach, which could mean, theoretically, as many as two million dead Americans.

And, as Nick Watt from CNN reports for us now, the president's own surgeon general is openly calling this a deadly strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Normal life, that's all we want. You know what we want? Normal life.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sure, we all want it. But we can't have it, not yet, nowhere close. Cue the actual experts.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: This looks like we're going to have a very difficult fall and winter.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: We're about a week away from starting to enter a period where we're going to see a rapid acceleration in cases.

WATT: More than 60,000 new cases yesterday, most in three months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soon, it'll be 70,000 cases. But, obviously, the major implication of this dramatic rise in cases will be in two weeks a dramatic rise in deaths.

WATT: Yesterday, we lost 933 lives to this virus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will start to see closer to 2,000 deaths per day.

WATT: Average new case counts? Not a single state is trending in the right direction, not one. But schools are open many places, in Michigan infections, now reported

in 84 of them. Infections among kids jumped 13 percent in just the first two weeks of this month, very few serious cases or deaths in those under 18, but:

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those kids live with adults, right? And those kids bring that germ back home to adults.

WATT: In El Paso, Texas, more tests coming back positive now than ever.

In California, under new guidance, Disneyland might not reopen for months. Some of us are tired, given up on masks and distance. For others?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably given up isn't the right term. Most of them never started.

WATT: Some due to a wink from the White House. Twitter just took down a Dr. Scott Atlas post undermining masks. He's now the president's closest COVID adviser, also promotes herd immunity. Let it rip among lower-risk demos.

DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS ADVISER: We should be fine with letting them get infected, generating immunity on their own.

WATT: Today, the surgeon general pushed back hard: "This could overwhelm health care systems and lead to many complications/deaths."

A vaccine might bring normal life, Moderna and Pfizer meeting with an FDA advisory committee tomorrow to discuss efficacy, safety, manufacturing, but not to present new data from trials, not yet.

Today in Washington, a march pleading for a vaccine that is safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: And we have just heard that a volunteer has died during the AstraZeneca-Oxford University vaccine trials down in Brazil.

Following careful assessment, Oxford University tells us there have been no concerns about safety. We have no further details, but those trials continue -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt, thank you so much.

I want to bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I want to start with what President Trump said today when asked if he would -- if he could do it all over again, what he would do differently when it comes to handling the coronavirus pandemic. He said, "Not much."

What's your response?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's totally absurd, Jake.

I mean, to think that the best that we could do was be the worst in the world, that's basically what he's saying with regard to this coronavirus response, because anyone can look at the right side of the screen, and, as they have heard so many times if they watch your show, we're not even 5 percent of the world's population and make up nearly 20, 25 percent of the world's cases.

So it's obviously a huge, huge shortcoming here. I think what is lost sometimes in all this, Jake, is, what does it mean to have done something? The president often talks about the travel restrictions, but that clearly wasn't enough.

Well, I want to show you some hyper-local data. We were collecting this from Arizona. You remember Arizona going through the spring and just how significant the impact was over there. When they lifted stay- at-home orders, Jake, no surprise, beginning of June, end of may, they had a significant increase in the overall number of cases, 151 percent increase.

But take a look at the second line, Jake, 75 percent decrease over about three weeks from mask requirements, limiting some of these large public gatherings, and certain business closures, which mostly meant bars.

[16:35:02]

OK, 75 percent, Jake, that's a hyper-local piece of data. Imagine if that had happened around the country. We'd be in a much different position by this point. And that was end of July/August sort of time frame. We would have bent the curve, and we wouldn't be dealing with the situation that we're dealing with right now.

TAPPER: Yes. And that's just leadership.

That's not even the Manhattan Project for testing and contact racing that you and I have been discussing literally since February and March.

Sanjay, the CDC just redefined what they mean when they say close contact with a COVID patient. Now it's considered high risk if you're exposed to a person for a total of 15 minutes. Before, it was at least 15 minutes of continuous exposure. How big of a deal is this? What does this mean?

GUPTA: I think this is a pretty significant deal, Jake.

So, as you point out, if you're with an infected individual, close contact, defined as at least 15 minutes within six feet, what they found from a person up in Vermont -- there's a corrections officer who over a period of time had these brief interactions, 22 brief interactions around a minute each for a total of 17 minutes total.

And none of them would have qualified as a close contact under the previous guidance. But, as a result of those brief interactions, that corrections officer contracted COVID, contracted the virus. So it is sort of redefining a little bit of how we look at these

contacts. I think it's going to be really important when we think about the types of interactions. We would say, look, if you pass by somebody in the hallway very quickly, that's probably still not considered a close contact.

But a quick hello, a brief conversation within six feet of someone who's infected, may not know that they're infected, those are also things that this now guidance is saying we have to watch out for.

So I think -- look, I heard that, and I think it's going to change how I even think about these interactions, because I was taking some solace in the 10 to 15 minute, I was saying in the back of my mind, of close contact.

Now I think you -- obviously, you always got to maintain the distance, got to wear the mask and stuff like that. But think about that duration. Even a couple of minutes now counts.

TAPPER: So, bad news.

The virus is clearly surging. Hospitalization numbers are also going up. But if you look at this graphic, the hospitalization numbers not as high now as they were in April or July. How do you interpret this data?

GUPTA: Well, this is going to be very interesting to watch.

I mean, I think there's a few things that are happening here. One is that there are younger people who are becoming infected. The numbers continue to go up. But the hospitalizations don't go up at the same rate. That's potentially good.

We are also getting better at taking care of these patients. I want to show you. The likelihood of dying if you went to the hospital with COVID at the beginning of this pandemic, about a quarter, 25 percent. Can you imagine, 25? If you went to the hospital, you had a one in four chance of dying March/April.

By May/June, they were saying closer to 8 percent, so significant improvements. A lot of that may have been because of there were people who were less at risk of dying who were hospitalized, but were more likely to be discharged.

You might also be having shorter hospitalizations. People are often being hospitalized for 10, 11 days initially, Jake, hospitalization duration short shortened, and that probably brought the numbers down.

But, Jake, look, it may still go up. Younger people becoming infected, but, as they spread this to more vulnerable populations, we may still see, sadly, that surge in deaths.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Good to see you, as always.

Joe Biden just ran an ad during a World Series game, the unbelievable cost of the ad, and a look at the strategy.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:21]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today: Joe Biden's campaign spends an estimated $4 million to air one ad during last night's World Series, $4 million.

And an aide tells CNN that they plan to air another one during game two tonight.

Joining me now to discuss, former senior adviser to President Obama David Axelrod.

David, I want to start with the strategy behind this World Series ad that ran. Let's play just a part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM ELLIOTT, ACTOR: There is so much we can do if we choose to take on problems, and not each other, and choose a president who brings out our best.

Joe Biden doesn't need everyone in this country to always agree, just to agree we all love this country, and go from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, this was an ad guaranteed to be seen by millions during one of the biggest sporting events of the year.

Was this the right message? It's basically, Joe Biden's a nice guy, Donald Trump isn't. I mean, is that enough?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's stipulate that any ad that Sam Elliott narrates, even if he was reading the Greek alphabet, is going to get people's attention.

I do think, look, this is a closing argument, Jake. And remember where Biden began the campaign with his ad about Charlottesville and the need to come together and unite as a country.

Unity is a very big theme of his campaign. And if you look at the polls that CNN released today, you can see why. In Florida, he has a 17-point edge on who will unite and not divide the country. In Pennsylvania, I think it's 33 -- 23 points.

[16:45:01]

And that is a very big advantage in a country that is weary of being divided. It is a contrast that works for him with the president. So -- and especially at a time when the president is going out and being more and more divisive. I think it's a strategically very sound.

TAPPER: A new report from the Wesleyan Media Project finds that nearly 5 million ads have aired this election cycle between presidential, House, Senate races, that's more than double the number of ads in 2012 or 2016.

Is there a risk here for people buying these ads, of oversaturation, people don't even pay attention anymore?

AXELROD: First of all, what it underscores to me is that I got out of the business too early.

TAPPER: True.

AXELROD: But leaving that -- leaving that aside, you know, there is some risk of that. But, you know, the thing about -- that's interesting to me with this national ad strategy of Biden, one of the reasons he is buying national ads is that the local markets in these battleground states are so saturated that it is less costly to buy national ads than it is to buy local ads market-by-market.

The other thing that it does is he is getting, for the same price, he is hitting states that are expansion states like Ohio, for example, Iowa, and that is -- that's very effective. Right now, what they are trying reach -- this is another reason to buy during ballgames is they are trying to reach low information voters. They are not trying to reach people who watch "STATE OF THE UNION."

They are trying to reach people who aren't paying a lot of attention to this campaign. They are the only people left who really haven't made up their minds on this race. So, the slots they choose are really important.

TAPPER: The Trump campaign rolled out a series of ads targeted it seemed at senior citizens. According to "Axios", the Trump campaign spent eight figures on ads such as this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD ANNOUNCER: Together, we rose to meet the challenge, protecting our seniors, getting them life saving drugs in record time, sparing no expense. President Trump tackled the virus head on as leaders should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We should also note, this is also the ad where Dr. Fauci was included although he said he wants that ad to come down and he was edited and taken out of context. But beyond that, seniors were a reliable voting bloc for President Trump in 2026. They could be critical to whether or not he is elected.

Regardless of the politics, do you think this ad is smart?

AXELROD: You know, I think a coronavirus ad is smart. Whether this ad is smart is a different question because listen to the words. He says he is recovering and so is America. They are watching these ads at the very moment that they turn on the news and see a second surge bearing in on us.

And so, there is this disconnect and this has been the problem for Trump from the beginning. He has tried to spin the virus rather than confront the virus and people have recognized that and so he continues to have poor grades on dealing with the virus. Let me just say one thing about Dr. Fauci and his use of Fauci. It is so telling that he calls Fauci a disaster on his call of his campaign workers and then runs ads with Fauci as a validator because he knows he is more trusted than Trump on the issue of the coronavirus.

TAPPER: Yeah. David Axelrod, thank you so much. Appreciate your insights as always.

Coming up next, a disturbing discovery in the court documents from the border parents of 545 children separated from them at the border. The parents cannot be found. Sadly, why it may be nearly impossible at this point to track them down, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our national lead, the parents of 545 children who are separated at the border by the Trump administration cannot be found. According to a court order joint status report from both Justice Department and the ACLU, the children, some are just babies, were separated from their families between 2017 and 2018 as a way for the Trump administration to deter illegal board crossings. The court documents say that hundreds of their parents may have deported.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins me now.

Priscilla, where have these kids been living since they were separated from their parents?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Now, these are children that were released from government custody before June 2018 and now are living in the United States with a sponsor. Now that could be a relative on or someone like a family friend.

But I want to underscore here, Jake, that these are families that have been separated for years as a result of a Trump administration policy on the U.S./Mexico border to separate families.

And what we learned in court filing last night is that, yes, parents of 545 children cannot be located by lawyers who have been appointed by the court to identify them. And hundreds of these parents are believed to have been deported, making tracking them all that more difficult. Now, we know of these children because of a watchdog report last year that resulted in the findings of thousands more being believed to be separated than previously acknowledged.

And so, now, in these court filings, we are seeing those ramification of these policies to today. And lawyers are trying to find these parents and they're so in the myriad of ways, including phone calls, on the ground efforts. One of those groups Justice in Motion told CNN in statement it is, quote, an arduous and time-consuming process on a good day. [16:55:04]

And now, the pandemic is gotten in the way and that lead them to halt their searches until resuming them again now. And we know the toll this takes on children.

Again, a government watchdog report last year found that children that were separated had, quote, heightened feelings of anxiety and loss. And so, the hope here is to find these parents and quickly.

TAPPER: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much. An absolute tragedy.

In our 2020 lead, the final presidential debate is tomorrow. President Trump is slamming it as unfair without any evidence. He is claiming that the Commission on Presidential Debates is shifting the focus away from foreign policy to help Joe Biden.

Joining us now, former Republican senator of Missouri, John Danforth, who has been a member on the Commission on Presidential Debates since 1994.

Good to see you again, sir. Thank you so much for joining us.

What's your reaction to the Trump campaign once again assailing the integrity of your bipartisan commission?

JOHN DANFORTH (R), FORMER U.S. SENATOR FROM MISSOURI: Well, I don't think it's a matter of the commission so much. I mean, we can certainly take criticism.

But the big problem is the effort to undermine the legitimacy of the election. That really is a serious matter because our country depends on people having confidence that elections are fair and if the strategy of a campaign is to say, look, this hasn't been fair, we have been cheated, we would have won but for cheating by the other side or but for fraud, then we are really heading for problems after the election.

So, it's a serious matter. It's not just the feelings of people on the commission.

TAPPER: You're a Republican senator, a -- you know, you were the conscience in your party for many years in the Senate. You've been working on presidential debates for nearly three decades.

What did you think of the first debate?

DANFORTH: Well, I think it -- it was not a good opportunity for the American people to be educated about the positions of the two candidates on various issues. And we received -- we were really inundated by complaints by watchers of that debate who said this has been a terrible debate. We haven't been able to hear. The candidates were talking at the same time. And that we couldn't make out what they were saying.

So people felt that they were deprived of what they should have been able to get out of that debate.

TAPPER: Do you think muting the candidates for portions of tomorrow night's debate will help?

DANFORTH: No. It's not really muting. It's -- both -- back in the summer when the conditions of the debate, the rules of the debate were negotiated with the two parties, it was agreed by everybody that at the beginning of each of the 15-minute segments, each candidate would be able to speak interrupted -- uninterrupted for a period of two minutes and that's all we're saying, that for that two-minute period of time, the microphone would be open for the candidate who's speaking, not for the other candidate, so that he would have the uninterrupted opportunity.

And that concept of the uninterrupted two minutes was reiterated by both candidates as recently as within the last week. So, it's the same rule. It's just an enforcement of that rule.

TAPPER: The president -- we still don't know when he tested negative before he was diagnosed positive with coronavirus. We don't know if he tested negative or was tested at all within 72 hours of the debate which were the terms and the rules.

Are you making sure that President Trump has tested negative and that all of the members of his team wear masks during the debate?

DANFORTH: Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question. I know that where it came up was with regard to the second debate which was to be the second debate, the town hall debate. And we took the position then that we were -- we could not be certain that one of the candidates wouldn't be infectious and in order to protect the 60-some-odd production member, member of the production staff, plus the citizens who would be there, it should be conducted remotely.

And, of course, that was -- but it was a decision made solely on the basis of safety.

TAPPER: All right. Senator John Danforth, Republican of Missouri, it's good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for coming on our show today. We appreciate it.

And you can join me for the final presidential debate tomorrow night. CNN's special coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern and then we will cover after the debate as well. Follow me on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter @JakeTapper, tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

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