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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Holding Rally at Florida Retirement Community; GOP Adviser Says Trump Debate Performance Could Be Too Late; Trump Campaign Raised Biggest Online Funding on Debate Night; Trump Claims to Be Least Racist Person in the Room; Biden Falsely Claims He Never Opposed Fracking; Universal Mask Usage Could Save 100,000+ Lives in U.S. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 23, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And we're back with the 2020 LEAD.

In the next hour, President Trump will kick off the first of two rallies in Florida, once again ignoring the health recommendations of his own administration and holding potential super-spreader events, putting the American people at greater risk during a deadly pandemic.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is traveling with the President in The Villages, Florida. And Kaitlan, the President is about to hold a rally there at The Villages. It's a retirement community. This obviously a must win demographic and must-win state for the President. We know that seniors are far more susceptible to coronavirus than any other demographic.

Are you seeing there, steps being taken to protect seniors gathering in a crowd during a pandemic? Are they requiring masks? Are they doing anything?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, Jake. This actually looks a lot like the President's normal rallies that he's been holding for the last several weeks. Now when we were coming in, we did see a lot of people wearing masks, they were all filing in, but now we're here, and we should note it's outdoors and we're on a really big piece of land because we're over by The Villages, their polo field.

But, of course, as you can see behind me, everybody is bunched in and packed in pretty close together and you are seeing a lot of people who are not wearing masks while they're out here. There are some people who are but certainly there are a lot who are not. So, it really does mirror the President's average rallies.

So of course, as you noted this is a massive retirement community here in Orlando, Florida. And so that's the concern here, because even the President acknowledged last night while he was talking about the pandemic that is very much still happening here in the country, talking about how older people are more susceptible. They are more vulnerable to this.

And so, of course, that's the concern here, as the President is gathering so many of these supporters here together as they are close together not wearing masks and not social distancing -- Jake.

TAPPER: And Kaitlan, the bar was low, but President Trump seemed to reach it. He took a less combative approach than he did at the first debate. He wasn't constantly interrupting. I guess the question is, do Trump allies, does the Trump campaign think that there is still the potential for the President to have moved the needle for undecided voters or any of these demographics that he struggled with, seniors or women?

COLLINS: Well, based on the conversations I had, the way they were looking at that final Presidential debate was that if the President had a repeat of that first performance, it was going to hurt him. And they already know what the poll numbers look like, they're looking at the same polls that you and I are looking at. So, they knew that he needed a much better performance which, of course, last night objectively was, because as you noted, the President was restraining himself and not interrupting every five minutes as he was in the first debate.

[15:35:00]

But the question is just because they believe the President performed so much better last night, does that change voters' minds, or is it too late for the President to have done that? Because based on what a lot of people that we spoke with, even some Republican lawmakers, they wished that had been the Donald Trump that the nation had seen during the first debate when people were still casting early votes, which of course, we know how many have already been cast, millions of them.

And so, they wish the President had seen that then because in 2016 they felt like a crunch in the last few days as the President is doing now with all these rallies really helped pull them over the line. But now they are concerned that that's not going to be the case given so many are going to early vote or they're absentee vote already, and so they won't have as many people going in on election day.

And so, the President did perform better in their eyes. They basically viewed it not as Donald Trump beating Joe Biden but good Donald Trump beating bad Donald Trump last night.

TAPPER: Right.

COLLINS: The question is whether or not it's actually going to change anybody's mind.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan, put your mask back on. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

The numbers are in. More than 55 million people watched the final presidential debate, and while both campaigns are claiming victory today, Trump's campaign manager Bill Stepien told reporters that the President had the best online fundraising performance at any point of his campaign, both in 2020 and 2016.

Still, Biden maintains a big cash advantage over President Trump with more than $107 million more than President Trump has.

Let's discuss with CNN's Van Jones and Scott Jennings. Van, let me start with you. Biden is the frontrunner, so last night he really just needed to stay the course. How do you think he did?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think he did well. Look, if you're a Trump supporter after that first horrific debate, and then he gets COVID and then throws a fit and won't be a part of the video thing, like you're just hoping anything good would happen, and something did good happen in terms, you know, Trump's performance was as solid as he's ever done. He did a good job, it's just it's probably too late.

At the same time if you're a Biden supporter, every time he looked to the camera, and he was talking directly to the American people about our pain and his plan, that was working for our side. So, this was more like a draw, but unfortunately, when you're as far behind as Trump is in the polls, a draw is not good enough.

TAPPER: Scott, I know I watched your comments last night, I know you're a lot more happy with his performance at the last debate than at the first debate. Do you think he might actually make inroads with any voters, though?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I do, actually. I think, you know, in some of the national polls, Jake, there's been a lag between Trump's job approval and his ballot share against Biden, and I've always struggled to understand, well, if you approve of all of his policies, why aren't you voting for him?

And there's a clear answer, of course, and that's because folks have been worn out. A lot of Republican, you know. People in the suburbs are like, I like the tax cuts, and I like the judges, I don't like the tweets and I don't like, you know, feeling worn out every day.

But last night he reminded them why they voted for him before and why they have largely supported him, and that's because they see that a Republican President who's correctly arguing on policy and executing on the things that they like, they see what that looked like.

If that happened in the first debate, I think we would be having a lot different conversation right now. It's unfortunate for him it came in the last debate. So wobbly, conservative, center right suburbanites, I think that checked a box for them last night.

And I do think some senior citizens, if they were watching it last night, that's the kind of Republican performance they recognize as well.

TAPPER: Van, President Trump falsely claimed to have done more for the black community than any other President with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. I mean it's just a crazy thing to say when you look at the records of, you know, even just like Lyndon Johnson. He also said something else that was a little controversial. This --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am the least racist person, I can't even see the audience because it's so dark, but I don't care who's in the audience, I'm the least racist person in this room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Eight in ten black Americans believe that Trump is a racist, according to a Washington Post/Ipsos poll earlier this year. Why does the President make comments like that instead of acknowledging that maybe sometimes that he has said things that seem insensitive, but he wants to work on it?

JONES: Well, that's not his style. I think it's really unfortunate, because Donald Trump, and I get beat up liberals every time I say this, but I'm going to keep saying it. He has done good stuff for black community. And you know, upping his own stuff, black college stuff, I worked with him on criminal justice stuff. I saw Donald Trump have African American people formerly incarcerated in the White House, embraced them, treated them well.

There's aide to Donald Trump that I think he does not get enough credit for. But the reason he doesn't is because he also says the most incendiary stuff and he retweets white nationalists.

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And he violates the number one rule of blackness, which is, I don't mess with people who mess with people I don't mess with. In other words, I'm not friends with people who are friends of my enemies. And so, the black community can appreciate some of the stuff he's done, but when they see him playing footsie on Twitter with these white nationalist organizations, it just wipes it all out.

And so if they had a disciplined strategy of being a consistent ally with the black community and being an enemy of the white nationalists, we'd be in a very different spot, and that's the tragedy of these mixed messages from the Trump White House.

TAPPER: Scott, I know the Trump campaign is jumping all over comments that Biden made and the controversy about whether or not he wants to move away from fracking or not. It would be political malpractice for them not to seize that. Take a listen to what Biden said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I never said I oppose fracking.

TRUMP: You said it on tape.

BIDEN: Show the tape. Put it on your website.

TRUMP: I'll put it on.

BIDEN: Put it on the website. The fact of the matter is, he's flat lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Here's what Biden said in 2019 during a CNN Democratic debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Just to clarify, would there be any place for fossil fuels, including coal and fracking in a Biden administration?

BIDEN: No, we would work it out. We would make sure it's eliminated and no more subsidies for either one of those, any fossil fuel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now we should know that without an act of Congress, any President cannot issue an outright ban on fracking across the U.S., and the Biden campaign is saying he means no more subsidies for fracking, not no more fracking. But if it is banned, obviously that would kill tens of thousands of jobs in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas, many of the states at the heart of the race.

JENNINGS: Yes, look, I mean, the message to energy-centric voters is, if you remember what the Obama-Biden administration did to coal, that's what they're planning to do to fracking and that's what they're planning to do to oil. And so, while they can't universally pass laws, they can certainly implement a regulatory regime that makes it extremely difficult to use fossil fuel and that's what Biden has indicated.

Look, he's been all over the map. He had to say one thing in the primary, he's saying another thing now. His running mate has been even more strident anti-fracking, anti-fossil fuel.

The one guy left in this race who's been very consistent about this is Donald Trump. And so, if you're an energy centric voter in Pennsylvania, Texas, Ohio, Donald Trump's been right with you all along. Joe Biden's been all over the place and now he's struggling to explain it. So those voters haven't yet voted and they're making up their minds, I think it's good play for the Trump campaign.

TAPPER: Van Jones, very quickly, I imagine you think this is actually a good thing for young voters who care a lot about climate change.

JONES: Well, also, ironic, you can't be for coal and fracking. What took coal down was fracking. It wasn't the Obama administration. It was the cheap natural gas that fracking poured in. So do people want to have it both ways on the other side, too, they're for coal and they're for the fuel that replaces coal. But more importantly I think that, you know, sometimes everybody knows

he gets his words tangled up. I think he was trying to say in his world, we're going to start removing subsidies for dirty energy and giving more help to clean energy, and most Americans agree with that.

TAPPER: Scott Jennings, Van Jones, thanks to both of you, appreciate it.

More than hundred thousand lives could be saved if the majority of Americans did just this one thing. Stick around.

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TAPPER: A brand new study finds that widespread mask use could save more than 100,000 lives in the United States between now and February -- 100,000.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is standing by with the details. Elizabeth, break down the numbers for us. Exactly how do they arrive at this number? How do the authors describe widespread mask use?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, this is a group out of the University of Washington that has been doing much of the modelling that we've been talking about. So, they're modelling using statistics, what would happen "if." And here's what they came up with.

They said if everyone always wore a mask in public, or most people, this is what would happen. Right now, about 49 percent, about half of Americans report always wearing masks in public. If we could get that 49 percent number up to 85 percent, we could save 95,000 lives from late September looking forward until the end of February.

If we could get that number up to 95 percent, we could save more than 129,000 lives. It is so unclear why anyone, including the President, keeps dissing masks. It doesn't make sense, they save lives. This study, this modelling shows it. Other kinds of studies have shown it and there is no downside to masks -- Jake.

TAPPER: What does the study say about the need for further lockdowns.

COHEN: You know, it's interesting, they said, look, if we could get mass usage up, that could go a long way to getting these case numbers down.

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And so, you know, if they said if that's the case maybe you wouldn't have to do other things. You wouldn't have to do these lockdowns. You wouldn't have to take those steps. So, in fact when people talk about let's open up more, well, we could open up more if more people wore masks.

TAPPER: And some of the states without mask mandates are now seeing their highest levels of infection. Tell us about that.

COHEN: That's rights so let's take for example South Dakota, they do not have a mask mandate and on Wednesday she said South Dakota is doing good.

Well, when you take a look just today, they posted a record number of cases more cases per day than they've had ever in this pandemic. It is hard to see how that is doing good. It is hard to understand why they won't have a mask mandate.

TAPPER: South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem you're quoting. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

COHEN: Right.

TAPPER: In our 2020 LEAD with just 11 days until the Presidential election an astonishing 50 million voters have already cast their ballots including Vice President Mike Pence who cast his ballot alongside his wife Karen in Indianapolis this morning. I wonder who he voted for?

With just days to go there is troubling new concern about Russian interference in what may be the first major hack of the election. As CNN's Pamela Brown reports in our latest installment of "MAKING IT COUNT."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the election just 11 days away, more than 50 million Americans have already turned in their ballots.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE VOTER: Well, I would rather get it done and over with and do it early, that way I know I've voted.

BROWN: And more than half of those votes come from CNN's 16 most competitive states. And one of the fiercest battle grounds North Carolina over two and a half million ballots have been cast. That's more than half of total turnout in 2016.

Millions of people choosing to vote in person amid the coronavirus surge across the country. Most states with mask mandates say they won't stop people without masks from voting. They will be asked to fill out a ballot outside or in an isolated area. Some voters agree with the approach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE VOTER: I think it's really important for people to vote and so it's important to accommodate them. And if they don't choose to wear a mask, they still have the right to vote and I think as long as the accommodations are reasonable.

BROWN: On election interference, intelligence officials confirm Russian hackers have stolen election data. But it's unclear how the information will be used beyond threatening emails that came to light this week. JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Iran and Russia have taken specific actions to influence public opinion relating to our elections.

BROWN: The federal government issued two new cyber security alerts warning that state and local governments were targeted but officials say election infrastructure has not been compromised. The intelligence community generally agrees that Russians interfered four years ago to help Trump win, despite that, President Trump slammed the assessment again at last night's debate.

TRUMP: The one thing that's common to both of them, they both want you to lose because there has been no nobody tougher to Russia between the sanctions, nobody tougher than me on Russia.

BROWN: Intelligence experts agree stopping Russia should be the priority.

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Russia has been interfering in the run-up to our election already and from my part, at least, is the far more serious threat than Iran.

BROWN: This as 2020's first election ransomware attacks hit Georgia. Officials in Hall County say the hacks effect a voter's signature database and precinct maps. But security experts believe election infrastructure wasn't affected and the attack was like driven by profit, not politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Jake, there is renewed focus tonight on what is considered voter intimidation. The Trump campaign actually filmed voters going to a polling station In Philadelphia and found three people who had more than one ballot.

And now under Pennsylvania law, you can drop off someone else's ballot if they have a disability, it has to be in writing. Now the Trump campaign claims this is just the tip of the iceberg. But the Secretary of The Commonwealth says filming people as they are going to polling stations could be voter intimidation which is illegal in Pennsylvania -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, thanks so much.

Breaking news on one of the coronavirus vaccine trials here in the United States. That's next.

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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin the second hour of THE LEAD with the 2020 LEAD.

Eleven days out from election day, President Donald Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden are both making their final pitches to American voters. A

short time ago, Biden wrapped up remarks trying to draw a contrast between his plan to contain the coronavirus pandemic and the President's handling or mishandling of the virus so far.

And it is a contrast as Biden pushes for more mask mandates and ramping up testing and contact tracing. This hour, President Trump is holding the first of two rallies in Florida, once again ignoring the health recommendations of his own administration holding potential super-spreader events putting the American people at

greater risk during this deadlier pandemic.

The candidates are coming off the final debate last night, a more normal match than the first face-off, it would be hard to be less normal, which that one of course devolved into chaos with the President's frequent interruptions and attacks.