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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Finding Migrant Parents; Joe Biden Lays Out COVID-19 Response Plan; Candidates Hit Campaign Trail Following Final Debate. Aired 4- 4:30p ET

Aired October 23, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Which that one, of course, devolved into chaos, with the president's frequent interruptions and attacks.

It's unclear whether last night's debate will impact the trajectory of the race, particularly with more than 50 million ballots already cast this election, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After clashing on the debate stage last night, President Trump and Joe Biden back on the campaign trail today with 11 days to go.

Before heading to Central Florida to shore up support with seniors, President Trump touted his more restrained debate performance.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think this was better. This is obviously a more popular way of doing it. And, no, I think I wanted to play by the rules, I felt very strongly about it.

COLLINS: Meanwhile, in Delaware, Joe Biden continued his criticism of the president's pandemic response.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We make up 20 percent of all the deaths worldwide. If this is a success, what's a failure look like?

COLLINS: Last night, the candidates clashed over Trump's handling of the pandemic right out of the gate, as Trump claimed that he took full responsibility, but then blamed China.

TRUMP: I take full responsibility. It's not my fault that it came here. It's China's fault.

We're learning to live with it.

BIDEN: Number one, he says that we're learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it.

COLLINS: On health care, Trump and Biden offered two different visions for replacing the Affordable Care Act if it's overturned by the Supreme Court. BIDEN: He's never come up with a plan. I guess we're going to get the

preexisting condition plan the same time we got the infrastructure plan.

TRUMP: So, I'd like to terminate Obamacare, come up with a brand-new, beautiful health care.

COLLINS: Biden slammed Trump for his administration's zero tolerance immigration policy that has resulted in lawyers being unable to find the parents of over 500 children who were separated at the border by the federal government.

BIDEN: It makes us a laughingstock and violates every notion of who we are as a nation.

COLLINS: Trump correctly noted that it was his predecessor who built the systems that immigrant children were housed in, but failed to acknowledge it was his administration's zero tolerance policy that resulted in families being broken apart.

TRUMP: Who built the cages, Joe?

BIDEN: Let's talk about what we're talking about.

TRUMP: Who built the cages?

COLLINS: The president hitting Biden after he said he would wind down federal subsidies for the oil industry.

BIDEN: I have a transition from the old industry, yes.

TRUMP: Oh, that's a big statement.

BIDEN: I will transition. It is a big statement.

TRUMP: That's a big statement.

BIDEN: Because I would stop...

KRISTEN WELKER, MODERATOR: Why would you do that?

BIDEN: Because the oil industry pollutes, significantly.

COLLINS: Vice President Mike Pence voted in his home state of Indiana today, after President Trump announced his vote in person in Florida tomorrow morning, despite defending his plan to vote absentee for months.

TRUMP: I signed an absentee ballot. Absentee ballots are great. They work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, you will remember, at the end of September, we found out the Biden campaign about had about three times cash on hand than the Trump campaign. But we are told the president's reelection effort and the Republican National Committee raised about $26 million last night during that debate. We will see what they choose to spend it on over the next 11 days. Not a lot of time left.

And that's the same thing that the president's political advisers are thinking, wishing that he had had that debate performance last night at the first debate -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, we should point out that the event you're at right now is that a retirement community, exactly the people who are the most susceptible to the coronavirus, and I don't see a lot of evidence that there any precautions being taken to protect any of these people, who are doing what you're not supposed to be doing during a pandemic, amassing into a large crowd.

COLLINS: Yes, Jake, we saw a lot of people wearing masks as we came into the door.

But now that they're in here, they're settled, and, of course, we are outside. But, as you can see behind me, they're packed pretty closely together, and a lot of people are not wearing masks. Of course, there is no social distancing happening behind me.

We are -- the press is up on a riser, so we're a little bit above and far back from the crowd. But a lot of people here who, of course, are part of a retirement community and are the president's supporters are not wearing masks and not social distancing, even though we're seeing cases surge across the United States.

TAPPER: It's just wildly irresponsible.

All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Nia-Malika Henderson joins us once again.

And let me ask you, Nia, once again, Biden hammered Trump's coronavirus response and explained how he would handle it differently. And then you see the president out there holding these potential super-spreader events.

Do you think this works as a closing message for Biden?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It's the closing message that they have been going with for these many weeks.

And it's essentially where Americans are in terms of the coronavirus is top of mind. It's in our lives every single day. Our lives have had to have been completely reorganized because of COVID.

So, he is betting at this message at this point in the nation's dealing with the pandemic, given where we're going, that it's going to get worse, according to all that these experts, is the closing message he wants.

[16:05:04]

You saw it last night. That was a big topic. They think that COVID and character are essentially on the ballot. And so far, if you look in these polls, they're doing very well. Again, it's polls. We have got 11 days left, so we will see where this goes.

TAPPER: Right.

HENDERSON: But that's where they want to remain.

TAPPER: Ron Brownstein coronavirus cases, hospitalizations, deaths all at their highest points in weeks, if not months, and yet President Trump last night, he said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I take full responsibility. It's not my fault that it came here. It's China's fault.

It will go away. And as I say, we're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There is no credible medical expert who says that we're rounding the corner, we're rounding the turn, it's going away.

Does this have an impact, do you think, on the election, especially with undecided voters?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Enormously.

I mean, from the beginning, the original sin of the administration's response to this has been -- response to this has been Trump's desire to project normalcy at all costs, whatever the impact on public health.

And that has shaped not only his decisions, but it put enormous pressure on Republican governors to resist closing, to open up too fast, to override local Democratic ordinances on masks. And he is ending the campaign in a way where, as I have said, the medium is the message.

It doesn't matter what he says on the stage. Louder than anything he says is the message that he sends by packing people together without masks, without social distancing. And the message he is sending the public is that, no matter how long he's president, no matter how many people get sick, no matter how many people die, he is not going to take this more seriously.

And whatever else he did during the debate last night -- and he did some things well -- that first 10 minutes where he made it very clear that nothing is going to change in his response to this, I thought, was the defining moment of the whole night, because you have 60 percent of the country saying they disapprove of him, the way he's handled this. That's the fundamental gravity in this race. And he basically told all

of them, don't expect anything different.

TAPPER: And, Nia, President Trump didn't have an answer or a plan as to how he will address this new wave of coronavirus. He just kept saying that things could be worse, and we can't close our nation.

Biden, on the other hand, said -- he detailed a whole plan today. And last night, he said he wants to shut down the virus, not the country.

I'm sure that there are people out there who like hearing what Trump has to say. But it does seem, just as a matter of politics, that the majority would like to hear -- well, the majority would approve of Biden's message on this issue.

HENDERSON: And I think some of the polling reflects that.

He is trusted, at least in the data that I have seen, Biden is -- with his responding to COVID in a better way than Donald Trump has responded. I think Ron is exactly right. It has been this essential response to say, there's nothing to see here with COVID. He has these rallies as if there's nothing to be afraid of, particularly in that retirement community.

And we do know that older folks are much more vulnerable to this. And we also know that he's doing very poorly among folks who are over 65. This is the message that he thinks is going to win him reelection. This is the message that does resonate with a lot of Republican base voters.

But we also know that it's not enough. He's got to build a much broader coalition ought to win in November.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Can I add something here, Jake?

TAPPER: Go ahead, yes.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, in that way, to Nia-Malika's point, it really is reflective of his overall vision of how you win this election and the way he's governed for the four years.

I mean, there is no effort to persuade a majority of the existing electorate that he is on the right track in handling this. What he's clearly trying to do, I think, as he does on almost every other issue, is mobilize that minority of the country that says open up at all costs, to use masks is an infringement on personal liberty, and change the electorate by bringing out more of those voters.

That really is his one path at this point. There is I think no prospect, this late in his presidency, that the broad majority of college whites and young people and people of color who have rejected him are going to change their mind.

I think, once again, he is playing to the short side of the field by doing this and trying to send a signal to those voters who are the most ideological, the most alienated from the way America is evolving, and trying to bring more of them into the voting booth in two weeks.

TAPPER: Yes. It worked once. We will see if it works again.

Ron Brownstein, Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks so much.

Breaking news about one of the coronavirus vaccine trials here in the United States that was put on pause.

Plus: why the head of the National Institutes of Health says the virus could be with us for years.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:13:54]

In our national lead: The fall surge is here, as the coronavirus continues to rage across the country. Yesterday, the nation added more than 71,000 new cases, the biggest case count since mid-July, during the peak of the summer wave.

The number of people hospitalized has increased by more than 30 percent since this month started. And several states just reported record high hospitalizations.

Sadly, deaths are also climbing. Another 856 people died just yesterday. But a new study found that 100,000 lives could be saved by just wearing a mask, as CNN's Nick Watt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are now in the full surge, virus spread accelerating.

ALEX AZAR, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We're in a very serious moment right now. We're seeing increases in cases. And what we're seeing is, through the Midwest, Upper Midwest and the Plains, a lot of cases occurring.

WATT: A dozen states are suffering all-time record high average daily case counts.

TRUMP: We're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: The truth of the matter is that we're turning the corner into a tsunami.

[16:15:04]

WATT: Nationwide, the three worst days for new cases were all back in ugly, ugly July, coming in fourth, yesterday, 71,671 new infections.

And the number of COVID patients in our hospitals has soared by a third in just three weeks or so. AZAR: Then, we will see results from that.

WATT: Results means deaths, our average daily death toll already higher than it's been in a month. And another 160,000-plus Americans might die before the first day of February, according to influential modelers.

They say, if 95 percent of Americans wore masks, 100,000 lives could be saved through the last day of February.

AZAR: This is being driven by individual behaviors at this point.

WATT: Like going maskless, family gatherings, public gatherings, three cases now confirmed at this Los Angeles mega-church, which defies public health orders, meets inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will obey God, rather than men.

WATT: Big Ten football kicks off tonight, very few fans. Still, "We are expecting some potential new obstacles as a result of the upcoming football season," says the mayor of East Lansing, home to Michigan State.

We are in the full surge. We know what we need to do.

REINER: Mask up, and we can turn this around.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, some good vaccine news, Jake.

AstraZeneca has just been given the green light to resume their phase three trials here in the U.S. They were paused more than six weeks ago after a volunteer in Britain developed a neurological condition. They are now back. They are going ahead.

And AstraZeneca says they expect to have results from those massive trials by the end of the year -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Dr. William Schaffner. He's a professor at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Dr. Schaffner, thanks for joining us.

Just this afternoon, the head of the National Institutes of Health warned that if only half of Americans get vaccinated, coronavirus could be around for years. And, sadly, recent CNN polling shows about that level, 51 percent of Americans would try to get a vaccine, if one existed; 45 percent say they would not.

How do medical professionals convince people that a vaccine could get us out of this crisis?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, DEPARTMENT OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE CHAIRMAN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Well, hold on, Jake. It's not just a vaccine. A vaccine is something else we can do. But we can't give up the mask.

TAPPER: Right.

SCHAFFNER: We can't give up social distancing. We're going to have to do them all together.

Everything will depend upon, one, how effective the vaccine is. Nobody expects it to be 100 percent effective. If it's about 70 percent effective, that's really very good. That will engender a certain amount of confidence.

The other thing is, how reactogenic is it? Does it make people feel crummy after they get it with a lot of sore arms? And how about the rest of the safety data? If the medical community can be convinced that it is a sufficiently effective vaccine and a sufficiently safe one, then we can reach out to all of our patients and the public and say, your doctor recommends that you get it.

And we will have to do a lot of reaching, because the specially affected populations, people of color, people of lower socioeconomic standing, they hold back more than any others. So we have a job in front of us.

TAPPER: New IHME modeling out today shows that, if 95 percent of Americans wore a mask every time they went out in public, the United States could save more than 100,000 lives from now through February.

Are Americans getting this message?

SCHAFFNER: Not enough of them, Jake.

I really believe that message. I believe that the mask is absolutely key. And I further believe, if more and more of us did that, protecting others and ourselves, we could flatten that curve and save so many lives.

TAPPER: Dr. Schaffner, President Trump is about to hold a rally right now in a retirement community. It's outdoors, but no masks required, no distancing. It's a packed crowd.

We know how President Trump mocks people who wear masks. He did it again today to a journalist. I mean, this must drive you crazy and everybody in the medical community trying to convey how important masks are, and the most powerful person in the country day after day undermines the message.

SCHAFFNER: It pains my heart.

I would hope that the public health people could get out in front and give that message in a sustained way. We're turning a corner, all right, but we're turning a corner upwards, because, as the intro said, cases are rising over many parts of this country now, along with hospitalizations.

[16:20:19] We're headed into a winter, a winter where we spend more time indoors, close with us for long periods of time. That's just the environment in which this virus enjoys spreading.

So, we in medicine are tightening our seat belts. And in addition to that, here comes influenza. So, if I can get in a plug, let's all get our flu vaccine. That's something we can do right now.

TAPPER: I got it a few weeks ago.

Today, South Dakota reported its highest single day of coronavirus cases yet of this pandemic, yet the governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, she tweeted this: "If folks want to wear a mask, they're free to do so. Those who don't want to wear a mask shouldn't be shamed into it. And government should not mandate it."

I mean, OK, if she doesn't want to have the government mandate it, that's one thing. But people aren't even supposed to shame other people, when lives are literally at stake?

SCHAFFNER: I will go back to what I have said for weeks now.

Everyone who leaves their front door in the morning should wear their mask. We should all be doing that, Jake. It protects ourselves and it protects other people around us. It will help reduce the spread of this virus. We need to do this all together.

And every once in a while, you have to have a mandate to make sure everybody behaves in a similar fashion. We're living in one here in Nashville. It's working where we have gotten our cases down. They have started to sneak up again, and yesterday, we reminded everybody we have got a mandate. We have got to wear these masks when we're near other people outside of our own homes.

TAPPER: Last night, at the debate, President Trump said we're turning the corner, the virus is going to go away. Joe Biden said that we're headed for a dark winter.

I know you don't want to talk about politics, but who's telling the truth there? Who's right?

SCHAFFNER: Well, just from a public health point of view, this is not political. This virus is right not going away.

TAPPER: Right.

SCHAFFNER: This is a very persistent, highly transmissible virus. We're in a long war against this virus.

It will take months. We're going to have to keep constraining our individual behaviors. The mask, well, yes, it's a bit of an annoyance, but it's trivial. It's cheap. It's easy, and it works. It's a marvelous intervention.

Staying apart from people, not so difficult. Not being together in groups, that's harder. But this is the year of COVID. We had a wonderful Thanksgiving last year. We hope to have a really wonderful Thanksgiving next year. This year has to be the restrained Thanksgiving. We have to change.

Otherwise, we will be spreading that virus around the Thanksgiving table. And that's not something for which I give any thanks.

TAPPER: Dr. William Schaffner, thanks so much for your time today. We appreciate it.

President Trump defended his family separation policy at last night's debate, or he tried to anyway. But is the government really doing everything it can to reunite 545 children with their parents?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:22]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead today: President Trump claims that his administration is working -- quote -- "very hard" to reunite the 545 children who were separated from their parents at the border by his administration who have not yet been replaced with their parents.

According to court filings, the government cannot locate their families.

But the president and his campaign are also trying to deflect blame with statements such as this one from Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM MURTAUGH, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's a regrettable situation, certainly.

The fact is, it's not as simple as you make it sound or as Joe Biden made it sound on the stage last night to locate the parents who are in other countries. And when they do locate them, it has been DHS' experience that, in many cases, the parents do not want the children returned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, lawyers who work on this issue tell CNN that it is true that some parents do want their children to stay in the United States, because they have better opportunities and lives and it's not as safe where they are.

But they also say that other parents are desperate to be reunited with their children.

Let's bring back Nia and Ron.

And, Nia, I think the bigger issue here is that even if there is some truth to what Tim Murtaugh said -- and I think there is -- some of the parents think that the kids have a better chance here -- the parents of these 545 children have not even been able to make the choice for themselves, because, according to the court documents, the government forcibly separated the kids and their parents as a policy, a deterrent for illegal immigration.

And now these parents can't be found. And, I mean, as Joe Biden said last night, I mean, it's criminal.

HENDERSON: Yes, I mean, this was a cruel and inhumane policy.

And they clearly had poor record-keeping in terms

[16:30:00]