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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Dow Plunges; Has Trump Given Up on Controlling COVID-19?; White House Faces Another Coronavirus Outbreak; Joe Biden Campaigns in Pennsylvania. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired October 26, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody is wearing a mask and trying, as best we can, to be socially distanced.

And that's what we're going to do. And you have attended a number of our press conferences as well. It's important to be responsible.

QUESTION: Mr. Vice President, you mentioned just a minute ago there that, as part of your commission, you would look at how long justices serve on the court.

Does that mean you're hoping to term limit...

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: No. No, no, no.

There is a question about whether or not -- it's a lifetime appointment. I'm not attempting to change that at all. There's some literature, among constitutional scholars about the possibility of going from one court to another court, not just always staying the whole time on the Supreme Court.

But I have made no judgment. my word. My word, I have made no judgment. There are just a group of serious constitutional scholars have a number of ideas how we should proceed from this point on. And that's what we're going to be doing.

I'm going to give them 180 days, God willing, if I'm elected, from the time I'm sworn in to be able to make such a recommendation.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you have any reactions to President Trump planning an event outside, an outdoor event at the White House tonight to celebrate the anticipated confirmation of Judge Barrett?

BIDEN: Look, you know, if you have children, and you were raised, all parents are taught that the example you set impacts on how your kids react.

When you're a boss of an operation, the example you set, what you do matters to the rest of the company. Well, the words of a president and the actions of the president, they

matter. They matter a great deal. And when the president of the United States puts on these super-spreader events -- you saw what happened when she was announced.

All of the people, including his family -- thank God they seem to be OK -- all the people came down with COVID.

I just hope he is willing to have learned a lesson, and there will be significant social distancing. I don't blame him for celebrating. There's a lot of things we could be doing having massive crowds. But the fact is that it's just not appropriate now.

And so I just hope he and the vice president and others act with some dispatch and do it so that everybody knows, people should be tested first before they even show up, number one. Number two, they should be wearing masks. Number three, they should be socially distanced. And, number four, it shouldn't be a huge crowd, whether it's outside or not.

Thank you all very, very much. Appreciate it.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Former Vice President Joe Biden taking questions at a campaign stop in Chester, Pennsylvania, right outside Philadelphia, part of the collar outside Philly, an important area for any politician trying to win the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The vice president, former vice president, really focusing on his closing argument, which is that President Trump has mishandled the pandemic and continues to do so.

Let's go right to CNN's Jessica Dean.

Jessica, this was clearly an unexpected stop from the former vice president?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes. We were not expecting this stuff. This was a last minute in the afternoon. He's going, talking with some voters over in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, which you, Jake, mentioned, one of the collar counties around Philadelphia.

It's going to be really, really important in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. They always look to what's happening in those suburban counties. That's where we have seen Biden doing very well with suburban voters, especially women, so not a surprise that he would go to Delaware county and talk to voters there.

What was interesting, we heard him, again, going back to the COVID pandemic. This has been central to their campaign. It is a giant part of their closing argument. And that is that President Trump and his administration have not acted in the best interest of the American people.

You heard him going after the Trump administration, President Trump, Vice President Pence, about how they're campaigning. We have noticed and drawn attention to just in the last hour that Biden is not officially on the campaign trail today with a rally or a planned stop, his campaign saying that they're doing this because they have to campaign safely and effectively during a pandemic.

And he talked a little bit about that, Jake, but, again, going back to COVID, going back to how he would handle it, as a very sharp contrast as to how the Trump administration has handled it thus far.

TAPPER: All right, and a real indication of how much both Biden and Trump are competing for Pennsylvania, Biden there today doing two events, one in Chester County, one in Delaware County.

DEAN: Absolutely.

TAPPER: And then President Trump two in three events in Pennsylvania as well.

Jessica Dean, thanks so much.

It's one week and one day until Election Day. And even though the pandemic is reaching new and worsening levels of spreading of new cases, the president of the United States today is again pushing the falsehood that the U.S. is rounding the corner on the pandemic.

[16:05:06]

The United States is not rounding the corner on the pandemic. Hospitalizations are up. Deaths are up. Cases are up.

This past week, the U.S. recorded almost half-a-million new cases of the virus. It was in fact, the most ever in a single week. And at least five of the 8.6 million total cases in the U.S. are from the vice president's inner circle.

Yet the vice president is not quarantining, even though he came in close contact with at least one of those individuals. He's defying CDC guidance, claiming he's an essential worker.

Pence is also the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. He just finished a rally, masks not required, no social distancing, people grouped in tight bunches, when we know that these rallies, Trump rallies, have been linked to the spread of coronavirus.

In minutes, President Trump is going to hold his own third rally, another potential super-spreader event, just today. By all appearances, the president has given up trying to control the spread of coronavirus in the United States. And now his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, acknowledged that to me on TV yesterday, saying that their goal is not to contain the virus from spreading throughout the nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas...

(CROSSTALK) TAPPER: Why aren't we going to get control of the pandemic?

MEADOWS: Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "We are not going to control the pandemic," said the White House chief of staff, a stunning admission from the Trump administration as we all enter this new worsening phase of the pandemic, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump is making his final pitch to voters as the country is setting new coronavirus records and highlighting how his administration has failed to contain the pandemic.

QUESTION: Have you given up on controlling the virus?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, not at all, in fact, the opposite, absolutely the opposite. We have done an incredible job.

COLLINS: Trump praising his efforts as he attempted to clean up this admission from his chief of staff:

MEADOWS: We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Why aren't we going to get control of the pandemic?

MEADOWS: Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu.

COLLINS: Democratic nominee Joe Biden called that moment "a candid acknowledgement of what President Trump's strategy has clearly been from the beginning, to wave the white flag of defeat."

Trump fired back at Biden today.

TRUMP: No, no, he has. He's waved a white flag on life. He doesn't leave his basement. This guy doesn't leave his basement.

COLLINS: With only eight days until the election, Biden making a surprise stop in Pennsylvania, as Trump holds three rallies there today, where he claimed media coverage of the global pandemic is intended to hurt him.

TRUMP: All they want to talk about is COVID. By the way, on November 4, you won't be hearing so much about it. COVID, COVID, COVID.

COLLINS: The president didn't mention the rise in cases or new wave of infections in the White House, after five people in Vice President Mike Pence's orbit tested positive, including his chief of staff and body man.

Despite being the head of the Coronavirus Task Force, Pence is refusing to quarantine and citing federal rules on essential workers.

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: The vice president obviously has great knowledge about the disease and the pandemic, and he knows the right protocols to follow. And I have every confidence that he's following those protocols.

COLLINS: Exactly one month after the Rose Garden ceremony for Amy Coney Barrett that was later tied to an outbreak in the West Wing, the White House is planning a another in person event tonight to celebrate her expected confirmation to the Supreme Court.

Senators will vote on Barrett's nomination tonight, and Pence indicated this weekend that he would preside over the vote.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to be in the chair, because I wouldn't miss that vote for the world.

COLLINS: But it turns out he will miss the vote, a Pence aide telling CNN today he will no longer attend unless a tie-breaking vote is needed, which isn't likely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, when the president was asked earlier today about this event, he said it's not going to be a large event, but we are hearing that it's expected to be held on the South Lawn, of course, a large venue, tonight.

And the chief of staff said earlier there would be social distancing, but he did not mention if it's going to be required to be tested to get into that event or wear a mask while you're there.

And we do know, we just learned that Justice Clarence Thomas is expected to administer the oath to Amy Coney Barrett once that vote does happen in the Senate tonight around 7:30, is what we're expecting so far.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

I want to bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, before we get to some of the policy ideas here, I just want to take a second to reflect on President Trump saying, falsely, that we're not going to cover a once-in-a-century pandemic that has killed more than 225,000 Americans, infected more than 8.7 million, including people we know.

The idea that he's mocking it, COVID, COVID, COVID. I mean, I know people, you know people who have lost loved ones to this virus.

[16:10:03]

I -- it's just shocking to hear the president of the United States talk about this deadly pandemic so glibly.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jake.

I mean, it's what I was thinking immediately when I heard those comments, I mean, the cognitive dissonance here, in terms of him sort of basically forget -- about waving the white flag. I think it's worse than that, Jake. I heard your interview over the weekend.

I mean, this has been a pursuit of herd immunity. This has been basically a, let -- let's not only just wave the white flag. Let's just let this infection run through the nation.

And we have talked many times about how destructive that would be in terms of the number of people who would die, the number of the hospitals becoming overwhelmed, which is already happening.

And, also, Jake this idea that we don't even know how long the immunity lasts, right? So, people get infected. We have all these terrible things that happen. And then it's sort of treadmilling. You are just running in place for so long, not actually achieving anything.

So it was really discouraging to hear this many months into the pandemic. I think, for you and me, Jake, we have talked about this so many times. It's incredibly frustrating.

TAPPER: Yes.

And, by the way, in terms of herd immunity, we know of individuals who got the virus, then got better, then got it again. And some of them have even died. Now, it might be very, very rare, but we don't know anything about immunity at this point. There is evidence to the contrary.

GUPTA: It's a terrible strategy all around, I mean, that herd immunity thing. It was never supposed to sort of play out this way. Ask any public health person.

The idea of trying to prevent these illnesses in the first place was always the strategy, the best strategy. This idea that you're going to sort of have this faux immunity -- we don't know how long it lasts, people do get reinfected -- it just boggles my mind here, at the end of October, that that's essentially -- again, I listened to your interview very carefully on Sunday.

That's essentially what he was saying.

TAPPER: Yes.

GUPTA: It's the same thing Scott Atlas has said. It's what people say that they're not saying, but then they're doing everything that basically enables that herd immunity sort of strategy to take hold.

So, it's a terrible idea.

TAPPER: Let's talk about that. GUPTA: We should just be really clear about that.

TAPPER: Yes, because White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows said, you can't control the virus, you can't control the pandemic.

Now, Joe Biden's response to this is that the White House is waving a white flag. What do you think? Is that a fair description by Biden of the position of the White House?

GUPTA: I think it's worse than that.

I mean, to say that we surrender is one thing, but the idea to say, hey, look, we're not only going to surrender, we're just going to lay down and basically let this virus take over, take ahold of the country -- I mean, Jake, five people infected in the most -- arguably the most secure house in the world, the White House.

The five people were infected in the entire country of New Zealand during that same time. I mean, we -- it is far more nefarious, I think, than simply saying, hey, look, this is a contagious virus, we're doing the best we can.

This is, we haven't done the best we can, and we purposely, in some ways, didn't do the best we can in terms of testing, in terms of advocating mask-wearing, in terms of keeping the things not shut down, necessarily, but not allowing large gatherings of people in largely indoor, clustered sort of settings. All of that that made a big difference in other places around the world, we didn't do.

So, we didn't just surrender. We enabled this virus to sort of really take over.

TAPPER: And Pence is also refusing to quarantine, the vice president, exposed to Marc Short, who has symptoms, has coronavirus, his chief of staff. Pence is refusing to quarantine. The White House says he can campaign because he's a -- quote -- "essential worker."

I don't know that campaigning for office is considered essential work. Who does the CDC say is an essential worker?

GUPTA: Yes, well, I can show you that the definition of what the CDC says. We looked this up.

And part of this is, I guess, depending on how you should interpret this. There's a different definition screen, I think, we can put up in terms of what actually constitutes an essential worker. But, basically, it's jobs that preserve and protect national security and public health, jobs that are essential for the country to keep running.

This is not that. In fact, I mean, not to be overly ironic here, Jake, but what he is doing potentially puts people at risk with regard to public health. So, if the goal is, look, I need to be in this job because my job is essential to preserving public health in this country, but in order to do that, I'm going to potentially be walking around with a virus, not always even wearing a mask, potentially infecting other people, it's almost the opposite.

Again, I don't want to be glib, like you are saying, Jake, but it is exactly the wrong thing to do. We know that testing is one strategy, but people can test negative today and test positive tomorrow.

[16:15:05]

I mean, I hope -- I know that the vice president and the first -- and the second lady have been tested. They are negative. But this is a concern for them, but it's also a concern for everyone around them.

TAPPER: Since President Trump returned to the campaign trail from his own bout with coronavirus, he's been actually making matters even worse.

He's been falsely saying every day that the U.S. is rounding the corner, even though that's not true. We are -- had the worst week ever of new infections. Several states are reporting record high hospitalizations. Governors, Democrats, Republicans, are saying their health systems are being overwhelmed.

I don't understand it. You would think that he would have some humility about this, given the fact that, according to himself, according to his own words, he almost died from this. And, of course, he had this incredible therapeutics.

What's your reaction?

GUPTA: Yes, I'm really surprised.

I mean, just as a doc taking care of patients who have had these brushes with their own mortality or had severe illness, it typically is a not only physical, but psychological sort of game-changer for them in terms of how they approach their lives.

People exercise more after they have had some sort of heart problem. They're more likely to psychologically be different. And this is the opposite. Whether he actually feels this way or he's just saying what he's saying, I have no way of knowing.

I mean, look at Chris Christie. He spent seven days in the ICU and came out essentially a changed man with regard to his sort of positioning on coronavirus, wearing masks. He's surprised that the vice president is not quarantining.

Chris Christie is saying that. So, this is a bit surprising.

But, Jake, it's that hospitalization number that I think is so critical, because people -- I think the number of people who become newly infected every day, I'm getting the sense that that's starting to wash over people when we give those numbers. They're not really absorbing it. It's almost like it's too many numbers to absorb.

Once you start running into a situation, as you correctly mentioned, Jake, where hospital systems are starting to feel like, hey, we're getting pretty full here, we're starting to look around, do we need to start canceling elective surgery? Do we have enough stuff in terms of PPE and all those other things? Do we need to start thinking about surge capacity in other buildings outside the hospitals?

Jake, those are real conversations that are happening right now in the United States in many cities around the country. We did not need to be in that position.

As I said, the same number of cases in New Zealand yesterday as in the White House. That does not need to be happening here.

TAPPER: Well, let me also underline, Sanjay, that's according to what we know.

GUPTA: Right.

TAPPER: I mean, this is a White House right keeps information from us.

Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, tried to hide the outbreak among the vice president's staff. There might be many more cases in the White House that we don't know about, because they're not being honest with us.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

GUPTA: You got it, Jake.

TAPPER: What the campaign stops tell us about Donald Trump's and Joe Biden's strategies for the final days before Election Day.

And we will take a closer look at the seven states that could decide who takes the oath of office in January.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:25]

TAPPER: We have breaking news in the money lead now, a dramatic drop on Wall Street today on the heels of a worsening pandemic. The Dow closed down 650 points, after plunging most of the day.

Let's get over to CNN's Alison Kosik. She is at the New York Stock Exchange.

Alison, investors are taking note of the sudden surge in coronavirus cases, it seems.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, that's right.

COVID is the catalyst for today's sell-off, new COVID cases hitting record levels. That spooked investors. Look, there's a lot for investors to grapple with as this cocktail of uncertainty just grows. Investors are looking at the restrictions, the tighten -- that have tightened across major countries overseas.

And they're thinking, is the U.S. next? The concern, more restrictions here could hit the economy. Stocks are also sinking today, as stimulus talks stall again, meaning no aid for struggling Americans and businesses anytime soon.

And then there's the election. We are eight days away, and investors are on edge about the outcome, whether it will be contested. So, with that triple whammy on Wall Street's plate, Jake, nerves are frayed and investors are buckling up for what's expected to be a rocky road ahead for the stock market, at least for the next few weeks -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Alison Kosik, thank you so much.

Turning to our 2020 lead: While President Trump holds three rallies in Pennsylvania today, Joe Biden just met with some voters outside Philadelphia, but it's not just Pennsylvania.

One glance at the map makes it clear where the Biden team is focused in this closing stretch. They have stops in Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, and Georgia, almost all of them states President Trump narrowly won in 2016.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson and Abby Phillip.

And, Abby, we just heard Joe Biden will also visit Iowa and Wisconsin on Friday. Iowa is a surprise. Do you think it's a smart strategy for the Biden campaign in the final stretch to focus on reach states, like Iowa like Georgia, as opposed to just honing in on the states that they need, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it's probably fine for the Biden campaign to dabble in some of these reach states, especially if it puts the Trump campaign on defense.

That's a pretty well-worn political strategy. But, ultimately, as you alluded to, it's really down to some really core states for Biden, and the most central of them is Pennsylvania, where he was just a few minutes ago.

There is, I think, no other state on the map that is more important for Joe Biden than Pennsylvania. It makes his path incredibly -- a lot more -- significantly easier. And it will make to Donald Trump's path a lot harder.

[16:25:01]

So, Iowa is a place that the Trump campaign says that they are doing very well, but the fact that Biden is going there, forcing them to continue to invest time and resources into it, is a sign that Biden is on the offense in this map.

But, at the same time, based on 2016, you cannot get overconfident at this stage.

TAPPER: Nia, today, we saw Donald Trump holding three rallies in Pennsylvania. Joe Biden met with voters outside of Philadelphia in Chester County. We hear he's also going to Delaware County. It's pretty clear that both campaigns still see Pennsylvania up for grabs.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Oh, absolutely.

It's a state that Donald Trump obviously narrowly won in 2016. And it's sort of a home state for Joe Biden. He likes to talk about his roots in Scranton. And so, yes, and I think everything that Abby said is exactly correct.

Biden essentially needs to win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, essentially building that blue wall that we all saw collapse in 2016. So, there he is, in Chester, Pennsylvania. That's an area with a lot of African-Americans. It's near Philadelphia. That's what he needs to do.

And we obviously saw Barack Obama there as well in Philadelphia, so getting those voters to come out. And one of the things that's also, I think, important, we talk about sort of the reach states that he's going to, Iowa. Folks are going to Texas, Arizona, Nevada.

There are also down-ballot races that are really important, that, if you're Joe Biden, you can bring some attention and energy to some of those down-ballot races in a place like Iowa, a pretty competitive Senate race there, and, in Pennsylvania, also some down-ballot races on the House side, particularly, that are going to be really close as well.

So, there is a wholesale strategy that they have, not only been there in person, but they also have other kinds of ad budget that the Trump campaign doesn't have at this point.

TAPPER: Abby, this has been a remarkably consistent race for months poll-wise. We know that Joe Biden is closing with the argument that President Trump has mishandled the coronavirus pandemic, and he will fix it, and then bring the economy back. That's his closing message.

I'm not exactly sure what the closing message is that I'm hearing from the Trump campaign. What are you hearing? And what do you expect to hear?

PHILLIP: I think the Trump campaign has decided -- and this decision was made shortly after the president recovered from the coronavirus himself -- that they have no choice really but to run on reopening the country, run on this idea that the virus is not actually the dominant factor in this race or in American life.

It is a risky strategy, but it's one that I think does resonate with some portion of the country, somewhere between 30 and 40 percent. And, look, the way the Trump campaign sees it is that holding these massive rallies is obviously a political risk in one sense, because it kind of emphasizes the potential super-spreader nature of these events.

But it is such a critical get-out-the-vote machine for the Trump campaign. It is such an energizer for his base. You can see why they almost feel like they have no choice but to do that. The president has a narrow path. He can't afford to lose his own people. And so they have really been hyper-focused on that, even potentially at the expense of independent voters and swing voters.

TAPPER: Right. And also this is not withstanding the immorality of holding super-spreader events...

PHILLIP: Yes.

TAPPER: ... potential super-spreader events in the middle of a pandemic. So that's just looking at the raw politics of it, forgetting about infecting people.

PHILLIP: Exactly.

TAPPER: Nia, I want to get your reaction to an exchange I had with the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, when I questioned why they don't require or even really encourage mask-wearing at the rallies.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADOWS: We give out masks.

TAPPER: They don't wear them.

MEADOWS: Well, it's a free society.

You're not wearing one right now, Jake.

TAPPER: There's literally nobody in this room. There is literally not one person in the studio.

MEADOWS: Yes, and so -- so, you're saying that you always wear a mask wherever you go?

Come on, Jake. The American people know that's not true. I know it's not true.

TAPPER: I wear a mask when -- except when I'm in here, in my office, and home. That is true, 100 percent.

MEADOWS: Yes, but...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I wear a mask when I walk in the hallway at CNN, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I just thought that was stunning, because they -- I mean, this is why the White House is a hot zone of coronavirus.

HENDERSON: Yes.

TAPPER: You guys work at CNN. We literally wear masks everywhere. And almost everybody is working from home.

HENDERSON: This is my mask. Yes.

TAPPER: Yes, where's mine?

Here's mine right here.

PHILLIP: Yes.

Mine is in my bag.

TAPPER: I mean, like, literally, we're always doing this when we walk down the street. I don't even understand it.

HENDERSON: I mean, it's stunning that he thinks it's stunning that there is a process in place in office spaces that includes wearing masks all the time when you're out in the hallway.

And, of course, our hallways here at CNN -- and we all know this -- are fairly empty. Everyone is essentially working from home at this point.

So, yes, people's lives have changed. I wear a mask every time I go outside of my house. I'm sure you do too, to keep myself safe, to keep my family safe, to keep other people safe.

So, this idea that he's just stunned, oh, my God, that people wear masks all the time, in itself, is an indictment of what has gone on at that White House.

[16:30:00]