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The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Claims Victory Over COVID-19 Pandemic; Big Biden Lead in New National Polls. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired October 28, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: But this final pre-election national poll does show us the mood of the country and shows us some

specific trends that we're seeing.

So, take a look at that overall horse race number. We show a 12-point margin here for Joe Biden, 54 percent for Joe Biden, 42 percent for Donald Trump among likely voters nationally.

And I want to show you, since so many people are voting early, and we asked that in this poll, how that breaks by the method of vote. You see here, those who have already voted split 64 percent to 34 percent Biden vs. Trump. Those who say they're going to vote prior to Tuesday -- still, again, big Biden category, 63 percent to 33 percent.

What you see in this last line here, will vote on Election Day, that's a Trump advantage group, 59 percent Trump to 36 percent Biden. That shows you Donald Trump's path to reelection is turning out a massive electorate on Tuesday, because Tuesday's Election Day in person voters are much more inclined to be his supporters.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: It's also a clear indication why President Trump pretends that any ballot that is not cast on Election Day shouldn't count, because he doesn't want Biden votes to counts.

Which groups of voters are leaning towards Biden? And where might President Trump have an advantage?

CHALIAN: Well, first, the gender gap we have been talking about all year in this race, Jake, it continues to astound.

Look, among likely female voters, Biden 61 percent, Trump 37 percent, OK? And among voters of color, you see Biden at 71 percent, Donald Trump at 24 percent. Among seniors, a group that Donald Trump won by seven points nationally in 2016, he's down 11, 55 percent Biden, 44 percent Trump.

But I do want to go back and just show you where we are as it relates to men, OK? They split almost evenly, 47 percent Biden, 48 percent Trump. So, while Joe Biden has a huge lead with women, Donald Trump doesn't compensate for that deficit by making it up with men. They're basically splitting it evenly.

We see the same with white voters. They basically split that evenly, while Joe Biden runs up the score with voters of color, Jake.

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: And then, finally...

TAPPER: Go ahead.

CHALIAN: ... Donald Trump's base of support, as you know, his strongest demographic, white men without college degrees. He wins them 68 percent to Joe Biden's 30 percent.

And it's that group that he has to turn out big on Tuesday.

TAPPER: David, stay right there.

I want to bring in CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson and Gloria Borger to join this conversation.

And, Nia, you see there Joe Biden leads among women, he leads among people of color, he leads among white voters with college degrees. We didn't put that in there. And he leads with seniors.

I guess the question is, that's a lot of different groups. Is it enough?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It's a lot of different groups. And he's tied among men, tied among white voters. I think that's what David said. I haven't seen the numbers as closely as David has.

But that -- those numbers, in and of themselves, are stunning, a stunning reversal for Donald Trump, a stunning kind of stat line for a Democratic candidate, because Democratic candidates for president typically losing seniors. They typically lose white voters. They typically lose men as well.

And now you see Biden being competitive, being tied and leading in some of those categories. This is what Democratic voters in the primaries thought that Joe Biden's strength would be, that he would be doing well among those voters.

And this is why Donald Trump was so nervous about Joe Biden, because he suspected that he would do better in all those groups in a way that even somebody like Barack Obama wasn't able to do well in those groups. And we saw, obviously, in 2016, Hillary Clinton didn't do well in some of those groups as well.

So, listen, it's a national poll, but some of these trends, obviously, we see in these battleground state polls as well. We don't know what's going to happen on Election Day, But these numbers in this poll a real sort of stunning look at Trump's misreading, I think, of white voters.

His idea was that he could sort of gin up white voters using the idea of law and order, sort of scaring -- scare tactics, stoking white fears, stoking racial anxiety, wrapping himself in the Confederate Flag. And none of that, at least in these polls, have seemed to work. And we saw some of the polls out of Wisconsin and some of these battleground states, and the trend lines are there as well.

TAPPER: And, Gloria, male voters pretty evenly split in their support.

When you break it down to white males without college degrees, I mean, they love Trump. Trump has a massive advantage with white men without college degrees, 68 percent to 30 percent for Biden. And we know that that is, of course, a key group that helped get Donald Trump elected in 2016.

[16:05:00]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

TAPPER: But I guess the issue here is, are there enough of them in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan?

BORGER: Well, that is the big question. And we don't know the answer to it.

But let's take a little walk down memory lane, when you talk about that 38-point gap that you're showing now, which, of course, is in Donald Trump's favor. In 2016, against Hillary Clinton, it was 10 points larger. So, just think of it as that actually Biden has narrowed that gap.

It's also progress, by the way, that Biden is about tied with all male voters. That -- in 2016, Clinton was nine points behind with male voters. So he has made up ground there. So, while he has not completely eliminated the gaps, and they still remain large, he has narrowed them somewhat and made some progress.

So, what Biden's job is, is to try and convince some of those people who may be holding out, who maybe aren't sure, who maybe voted for Trump last time because they didn't like Hillary Clinton, to make himself acceptable to them.

That's why you see him coming out and saying, I am going to be the president not of red state America or blue state America, but all of America, and I am going to be the president of people who don't even vote for me.

He's trying to make himself more acceptable to those people.

TAPPER: This is also interesting, David, because one of the things it shows is, both the Trump campaign and the Biden campaign acknowledge that Trump has done a little bit better picking off black men and Hispanic men to support Trump.

But the reason that the Biden campaign hasn't been worried is because all these other white men are going towards him.

CHALIAN: Exactly. Yes. TAPPER: But, David, tell us about what voters are saying about

whether they approve of the job that President Trump is doing? That's so important, the most important perhaps, right track/wrong track, and job approval.

So what do they think of the job President Trump is doing?

CHALIAN: Jake, it's such an important number, and it has been rock steady for him. He's at 42 percent job approval. He's at 56 percent disapproval.

I want you to see, his job approval matches his ballot number in this poll. And that means to me that this is an election and a referendum on Donald Trump. This is about Donald Trump. And the country has scored his job performance at 42 percent of it approve, and that's how much he's getting on the ballot as well.

I also want to show you the motivating factor that Donald Trump is for Biden supporters. When we ask, are you voting more for Joe Biden, if you're a Biden supporter, or more against Donald Trump, it's an even split; 48 percent say they're voting their vote for Joe Biden, 48 percent of Biden supporters say it's a vote against Donald Trump, which, by the way, can be quite a motivation in elections.

I just want to note that Joe Biden -- that pro-Joe Biden number has been steadily increasing in each one of our polls. He's getting more and more of his voters to say they're voting for him, not just against Donald Trump.

But you see what a big factor Donald Trump is. And then, when you look at Trump supporters, Trump is the factor for them; 79 percent of Trump supporters are casting their ballot for Donald Trump. Only 17 percent are doing so against Joe Biden.

So all that effort that Trump has made to try and make Joe Biden this real boogeyman and this real negative for people, that's not what is getting his supporters out to the polls.

TAPPER: And, Nia, I mean, what's interesting about that is, it's not a surprise that Trump's support -- his supporters are more enthusiastic about him than they are against Biden.

But, unfortunately for President Trump, enthusiasm doesn't mean that your vote counts more.

HENDERSON: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Right?

I mean, like, if you're voting against Trump, as opposed to for Biden, that vote counts just as much as the guy that has like 15 MAGA banners and lawn signs in his yard.

HENDERSON: I think that's right. And it's one of the reasons why we sort of track this enthusiasm and

whose supporters are more enthusiastic, but, really, it's who has the most supporters? Who has the people who want to come out, whether it's against the other candidate or for the candidate they're going to vote for?

It doesn't matter, because it all counts in these states that are so important. And we have seen so far that this anti-Trump feeling that is in this country has taken hold among many, many more groups than Donald Trump expected at the beginning of the year, when he thought he was going to be running on the economy.

COVID, obviously, has been a terrible mark against his president, but also his rhetoric on race among some of these white voters who initially were racial conservatives and now at least in some of the polling have some sympathy for Black Lives Matter protesters and are kind of opening their eyes about some of the racial problems in this country.

[16:10:06]

TAPPER: It's also insightful in terms of why Republicans, especially President Trump, are so determined to not make it easier to vote, because they want it to be about enthusiasm.

It's one of the only things they have going for them in this election.

BORGER: Right.

TAPPER: And the easier you make it for people to vote, the more you take that away.

David, Nia, Gloria, thanks to all of you.

Coming up: The White House just responded to the newly revealed identity of Anonymous, the Trump official who said there was a resistance inside President Trump's own administration.

Then: President Trump's own testing czar publicly and directly contradicting the president.

That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:00]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: the White House bizarrely taking credit for -- quote -- "ending the coronavirus pandemic," listing it as an accomplishment, even though it has not been accomplished, as President Trump continues to say that we're rounding the corner, all while, in almost every region in the United States, coronavirus cases are going up.

Former Vice President Biden today insisting that, on day one, he would start listening to the scientists and turn things around. CNN's M.J. Lee is live for us in Wilmington, Delaware, with the Biden campaign.

But let's start with CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Trump's campaign blitz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump out West today with two rallies in the pivotal battleground state of Arizona.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're heading to Arizona. We have a couple of very big ones.

COLLINS: But no matter which state he's in, the pandemic is defining the closing days of the president's campaign. And 10 months in, there are still mixed messages coming out of the White House.

The president has been telling his crowds, this is why COVID-19 cases are rising in the U.S.:

TRUMP: And you know why we have so many cases? Because we test more.

COLLINS: But his administration's testing coordinator disputed that today.

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We do believe and the data show that the cases are going up. It's not just a function of testing. Yes, we're getting more cases identified, but the cases are actually going up.

COLLINS: Admiral Brett Giroir also contradicted this stunning claim from Chief of Staff Mark Meadows:

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We're not going to control the pandemic.

GIROIR: We can control the virus. We know how to do that, smart policies, very critical to wear a mask when you can't physically distance.

COLLINS: Over half-a-million Americans contracted coronavirus in the last week, but a new White House document claims, ending the COVID-19 pandemic is one of Trump's accomplishments.

His communications director acknowledged today the press release was poorly worded.

ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: I think that was poorly worded. The intent was to say that it is our goal to end the virus. But what I would say is this. Because of the president's leadership, we are rounding the corner on the virus.

COLLINS: Trump was long gone from his rally in Omaha, Nebraska, last night as hundreds of his supporters were stranded outside in freezing temperatures for hours after buses scheduled to pick them up couldn't reach them.

The Trump campaign blamed the chaotic scene that unfolded in the dark on crowd size, road closures, and traffic.

In April, as 40,000 Americans had died from coronavirus, Jared Kushner privately bragged to the author Bob Woodward that President Trump had taken the country back from the doctors.

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: The last thing was kind of doing the guidelines, which was interesting. And that, in my mind, was almost like -- it was almost like Trump getting the country back from the doctors, right, in the sense that what he now did was, he's going to own the open up. Trump's now back in charge.

It's not the doctors. They have kind of -- we have like a negotiated settlement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, on top of all that, two years ago, "The New York Times" opinion page published an op-ed from what was described as a senior administration official working in the Trump administration who wrote about how there was this effort by people who still worked inside the White House and the administration overall to thwart the president's agenda and his worst inclinations at times.

Of course, now, that person has been revealed to be Miles Taylor, who is the former chief of staff to the former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, who revealed himself today, after, of course, previously in recent weeks endorsing Joe Biden and speaking out in criticism of President Trump.

We just got a response from the White House press secretary, who described Miles Taylor as a low-level disgruntled former staffer that she said is "a liar and a coward, who chose anonymity over action and leaking over leading. He was ineffective and incompetent during his time as the DHS chief of staff" -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

Today, Joe Biden cast his ballot in Delaware and took the opportunity to slam President Trump's handling or mishandling of the pandemic.

CNN's M.J. Lee joins us now live from Wilmington.

M.J., talking about coronavirus, this is his closing argument, the vice president, Vice President Biden. And it seems, today, the Trump campaign yet again gave the Biden campaign exactly what they want.

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jake.

I mean, every single day, President Trump seems to give Joe Biden fresh ammunition when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic. I mean, think about the past few days, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows telling you over the weekend that the U.S. is not going to control this pandemic, the White House Science Office saying that ending the pandemic is one of its top accomplishments, the president continuing to hold crowded campaign rallies.

And, look, Biden's closing message is going to be the coronavirus pandemic. And what he did today here in Wilmington is meet again with public health officials to discuss the virus. And what these experts told Biden is that we are in real trouble, that we are in the middle of another wave, things are not looking good across the country.

And what Biden said afterwards is that President Trump is living in an alternate reality. Take a listen.

[16:20:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Refusal of the Trump administration to recognize the reality we're living through, at a time when almost 1,000 Americans a day are dying every single day, is an insult to every single person suffering from COVID-19 and every family who's lost a loved one.

And the longer he's in charge, the more reckless he gets. It's enough. It's time to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: And, Jake, Biden did say that, if he wins, he is going to listen to scientists starting on day one.

But he also emphasized that turning things around, for him, is going to be very difficult and that it is not going to be like turning off a switch, obviously, a very different tone that we have heard than from President Trump -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, M.J. Lee, thanks so much.

With just six days until Election Day, will President Trump's strategy of complaining about all the coronavirus talk, will that really work?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:43]

TAPPER: In our 2020 lead: Anonymous revealed.

After two years, we now know who wrote the 2018 "New York Times" op-ed critical of President Trump, claiming there was a resistance inside the administration. It is Miles Taylor, the former chief of staff to the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen.

Moments ago, the White House responded to the revelation, calling Taylor a low-level disgruntled former staffer.

Let's discuss.

Scott, Karen, let's dive right in.

Scott, let me start with you. Your reaction to Miles Taylor coming forward, saying he was the author of the anonymous op-ed and the book?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, as a former White House staffer, I strongly disagreed with it.

When the op-ed came out and the book came out, I said at the time, I couldn't believe that someone who was an unelected part of the government would put their own policy wishes ahead of the elected part of the government.

I mean, this is how our government works. We have elections, people are in charge, they hire people, and they're there to implement policy. And if you disagree with those policies, you can resign and make that clear.

But, obviously, he felt like his ideas were better than what the American people believed. And I thought that was wrong. I wouldn't advise anyone to go into an administration with the goal of subverting the will of the American people following an election.

So I wouldn't do it.

TAPPER: Karen?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with Scott on this one, I have to tell you.

Also, as a former White House staffer, I'm not in favor of these kinds of tell-all after-the-fact anonymous. I think, if you're going to do it, be public about it.

That being said, I don't think it changes much in the election at this moment. I think it's very -- it's fascinating and interesting and intriguing, right? And I know, as you have discussed previously, I mean, there's been a lot of intrigue about who this person was for quite some time.

But I think now we have certainly heard those concerns, and we have heard similar concerns from other former White House staffers, some of his -- a former chief of staff to the president.

So, we know that these kinds of criticisms are out there.

TAPPER: Yes.

FINNEY: And, for voters, they already know these things about this president. It's not going to -- I don't believe it's going to change someone's voting pattern.

TAPPER: And, Scott -- and Miles Taylor has been out there making these criticisms publicly under his own name.

But let's talk about the election.

Scott, President Trump, he definitely has a path to victory, but it is a narrow one. In our CNN poll of polls, Biden is up nine points in Wisconsin. He's up nine points in Michigan. He's up seven points in Pennsylvania.

Are you worried about what's going to happen in the Rust Belt? Those three states delivered the presidency to Donald Trump four years ago.

JENNINGS: Yes, I mean, Trump, there's a map where Trump loses two of those three and still retains the White House.

And, frankly, I have always sort of look at the map, Jake, through the through the lens of subtraction. I find it unlikely that Trump is going to win a state that he didn't win last time. So, what can you afford to lose and still be above 270?

You can lose two of the three, but not all three. It looks to me like Pennsylvania is the most likely of those at the moment. But, again, he's at a polling deficit.

On the other end of the map, in the Sunbelt, there's very few maps, I think, where Trump starts losing Sunbelt states and still finds a way to get to 270. Florida is, of course, the chief among them.

But, yes, if he loses all three up North, it's -- or up in the Upper Midwest, whatever you want to call it -- here in Kentucky, we call it up North.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: It would be a problem. It would be a problematic map.

TAPPER: Karen, you were the senior spokeswoman for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign. There's obviously a lot of post-traumatic stress from that.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: People, a lot of Democrats afraid that this could be a 2016 repeat, that it's -- his support is not showing up in the polls, but it's there.

FINNEY: Right.

TAPPER: What do you think?

FINNEY: Well, as I try to keep my PTSD at bay, a couple of things.

I think that it is great to see that Vice President Biden and Barack Obama are actually going to Michigan this weekend. I think that's critically important, because, as we know, Michigan is a state where Trump won by 11,000 votes. And, frankly, I don't think we paid enough attention to what was happening on the ground there.

In Wisconsin, it's also good to see him ahead, because that was another state where the margin was quite slim.

[16:30:00]