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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Big Biden Lead in New National Polls; Comparing Biden and Trump's Pandemic Plans Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired October 28, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:01]

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: In Wisconsin, it's also good to see him ahead, because that was another state where the margin was quite slim.

And I can tell you, the weekend before the election, the chatter on the ground was, will Hillary Clinton come to this state? And you never want that, that kind of chatter, going in the weekend before an election.

So, things look good. The turnout model seemed to be good. But, remember, we can only guess when it comes to early -- mail-in early ballots in terms of what's happening. I think we have to be prepared that there will still be a Trump surge, as we saw in 2016.

It can come over this weekend and then into Election Day. And so we can't take anything for granted. I think that's why you're hearing from Barack Obama to Vice President Biden to Kamala Harris to any Democrat -- and Republicans, too, frankly -- get out and vote, return your ballot.

All of those messages are so important, because people feel so strongly that we have to have overwhelming turnout and that we have got to make sure people don't take anything for granted.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And that reminds me to tell our viewers, whoever you're voting for, if you are voting by mail, the Postal Service says we have already passed the day that it's safe to mail it in.

So, go to your elections office and drop it off, or if there's an elections drop box. Do not rely on the mail from this point on.

Scott, pre-election voting has now surpassed half of all the ballots cast during the 2016 presidential election. What does that suggest to you, beyond the fact that we're in a pandemic and people are afraid to go vote?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, certainly, there was a group of people in this country who couldn't wait to vote against Donald Trump. And there's been a group of people who couldn't wait to vote for him, and they were anxious to do it as soon as possible. I do think the pandemic has had a big role here, especially for senior

citizens. I mean, obviously, they're the most vulnerable population. And they're the -- they're among the highest voting participation group.

And so they're being able to take advantage of other ways to vote that don't involve going to a crowded polling place on Election Day. I'm sure many of them have done that.

There's enormous enthusiasm out there. I know we have analyzed all year long, what could be the impact here and there? But the reality is, turnout and enthusiasm and energy in this election has been jacked, really since the midterms in 2018.

We saw a massive turnout surge then. So it's a good thing when Americans want to vote, and they're doing it in droves. And I'm glad for it.

TAPPER: Something we can all agree on. Everybody should go out there and vote. The more people who participate, the better.

Scott Jennings, Karen Finney, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. Good to see you both.

The pandemic is one of the most important issues to voters. We're going to take a look at how President Trump and Joe Biden say they're going to fight the coronavirus.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:18]

TAPPER: Every day this week, we're looking at how the presidential candidates differ on major issues.

Today, we're looking at the deadly coronavirus pandemic.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen takes a closer look now at the sharp contrasts between the candidates' approaches.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seven days from now, we're going to win Nebraska.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As President Trump...

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Folks, it's go time.

COHEN: ... and former Vice President Joe Biden make their closing arguments in the final week of the 2020 election campaign, more than 227,000 people in the U.S. have died from coronavirus.

DENEEN BARR, DAUGHTER OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIM: So, my daddy just died by himself, and not -- it just hurts my heart.

COHEN: And in more than 40 states, cases are on the rise.

Despite this, Tuesday night, the White House listed ending the coronavirus pandemic on a list of the Trump administration's accomplishments. The campaign's press secretary Wednesday refusing to admit that this just isn't true.

HOGAN GIDLEY, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not going to quibble over semantics. The fact is, we're moving in the right direction.

COHEN: Biden Wednesday saying the White House announcement shocked him.

BIDEN: We will let science drive our decisions.

COHEN: The two candidates have two very different approaches for handling the pandemic.

TRUMP: I took rapid action to ban travel from China and from Europe.

COHEN: It wasn't a ban, but the president says aggressive action early on saved many lives.

And he invoked the Defense Production Act to produce more ventilators.

TRUMP: We're now making ventilators all over the world.

COHEN: But he left states to fight each other for those lifesaving machines. Trump didn't use the Defense Production Act to produce more tests for the virus. Nine months into the outbreak, testing across the United States varies in availability and turnaround time for results.

Biden has focused on that.

BIDEN: Imagine where we would be with a comprehensive system of testing and tracing.

COHEN: And says the U.S. should be spending billions of dollars to determine how to get more rapid testing.

And on masks?

TRUMP: I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know. Somehow, I don't see it for myself.

COHEN: For months, the president has downplayed them. But Biden said he'd asked local lawmakers to mandate masks.

BIDEN: We have to have this national mandate. We must do it.

COHEN: And on COVID-19 vaccines, President Trump has said vaccine is going to be announced within weeks.

But safety and efficacy testing hasn't been completed, and a positive outcome is not guaranteed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:40:00]

COHEN: President Trump has said that he doesn't think he would ever mandate a vaccine.

Now, when Biden was asked, he said, depending upon the spread of the virus, that it should be considered. He didn't say how we would enforce such a mandate -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen with our look at the issues today, thank you so much.

I want to bring in CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And, Sanjay, today, Admiral Brett Giroir directly contradicted what we heard from White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, who claimed that the U.S. simply cannot get coronavirus under control. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We still can control this by the types of smart policies, wearing a mask, those indoor spaces, avoiding crowds, being very careful around the holidays, and having more testing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Admiral Giroir also contradicted President Trump, saying that the rise in new cases is not just because there is increased testing. It's because the virus is spreading.

Obviously, we need this kind of clarity. But I think it has to be asked, does President Trump and Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, do they make your job harder?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, without question.

I mean, Jake, we have been saying, giving these messages, these public health messages, for so many months.

And, frankly, what we hear from the president and from Mark Meadows, chief of staff, has been the opposite.

So, testing does not cause people to become infected with the coronavirus. More testing does not lead to more cases. It should lead to fewer cases.

You just heard from Elizabeth and many others about the value of masks, and yet the president took off his mask as soon as he got out of the hospital. We're told we should not aggregate people together in the middle of a pandemic, and these rallies still go on. People know that they should be quarantined if they have been exposed to someone with the coronavirus, with COVID, and yet Vice President Pence is still out there despite that.

So, the opposite of what we're saying -- it makes my job, it makes all of our jobs harder. It makes it harder for the country, Jake...

TAPPER: Yes.

GUPTA: ... because so much of this now, it's becoming clearly -- it was -- it was not inevitable for this many people to become infected.

TAPPER: Despite the science, the Republican governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, who might run for president 2024, she has refused to institute a mask mandate.

She says people who don't want to wear masks should not be shamed into doing so. She also said this at a Trump rally last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): Let me tell you, my people are happy. They're happy because they're free.

The governor in Nebraska, Pete Ricketts, Kim Reynolds in Iowa, and I have been making decisions to protect our people and let them use personal responsibility to protect their way of life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, look, we all believe in freedom, right? We all want freedom.

But South Dakota is currently averaging its highest amount of daily coronavirus cases since the pandemic started.

GUPTA: Right.

TAPPER: It's spreading throughout the country.

How much could wearing masks make a difference?

GUPTA: It could make a huge difference, Jake.

And it's challenging thing to tell people about doing something that's preventative, right? Tell people, don't eat cheeseburgers, and you won't have a heart attack. And if they don't have a heart attack, well, is it because I didn't eat the cheeseburgers, or would I have not had one anyways?

Trying to prove a negative here is one of the challenges. People who don't wear a mask, as you well know, Jake, aren't just -- it's not a freedom issue, really, because they're not just taking the risk for themselves. They're taking it for the people around them. You wear a mask to try and decrease the chances you will spread the virus.

But, Jake, there is data now. And each time we see these studies, I think it's worth pointing them out.

This one, I want to show you quickly comes out of Vanderbilt. And, basically, they're looking at hospitalization rates that reflect counties that had mask mandates or didn't.

July 1 is the line on the left. And you see, October 23 is all the way to the right side of the graph. That first graph is counties that did not have mask mandates for more than 25 percent. The second graph is counties that had mask mandates in 25 to 50 percent of their counties.

All the way on the right now is counties that had mask mandates in 75 percent of their counties. And what you see there is that the hospitalization rate is basically the same.

So, mask mandates made a difference. The counties where they wore masks tended to have much lower hospitalization rates than counties that didn't, 200 percent in counties that had 25 percent-only mask mandates, basically the same, no change.

Now, people who wear masks may be more likely to also engage in other better public health behaviors. But there's compelling and overwhelming weight of evidence now in terms of the effectiveness of masks. It's easy to do, could make a huge difference.

TAPPER: What I also find odd from the governor of South Dakota, Governor Noem, is this idea of shaming, that, OK, I mean, if states don't want to institute a massive mandate because of their belief in personal freedom, that's up to the states to make that decision.

But the idea that public health officials shouldn't come forward, or even just citizens, and say, you should be wearing a mask, masks save lives, they help stop spread the virus, that's an odd message.

[16:45:09]

I mean, I assume that is what she means by shaming the public health officials and citizens shouldn't tell people just give public health advice?

GUPTA: Yeah, no. And the question is how is that shaming? You're encouraging people to do a civic duty to help protect those around them. It's not shaming them. You're basically enabling them with good information, good knowledge to actually help save lives.

You know, look, I think we are going to probably differ in the mask thing, Jake, when all is said and done and probably one of the thing that befuddles us the most. It's just not rational at all. You don't pay a lot to put on and you tell people you could be a movement that could be by saving 100,000 lives by doing it, and, you know, significant percentage of the country says, I'll pass and ain't going to do it.

I don't think I'll ever understand that particular issue. Many other issues, worthy discussions. This one? Not any more. People should wear masks.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Seventy-four million -- 74 million Americans have already voted for president and voters across the country are standing in long lines right now. The question is, how will all these early ballots be counted? And by when?

Plus, another former Trump staffer now says she is voting for Biden. Jessica Denson who ran the Republicans outreach program in 2016, she'll join me next to explain her decision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:57]

TAPPER: Back now with our 2010 lead. Less than a week until Election Day and already half of the total number of people who voted in 2016 have voted in this election, more than 74 million ballots cast so far.

As CNN's Pamela Brown reports on our latest installment of "Making It Count."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The word for this election, the key word is action.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And Americans are taking it. With just six days until Election Day, more than 74 million Americans have already voted according to data from all 50 states and D.C.

Pre-election voting has now exceeded half of all ballots cast four years ago, with 23 states crossing their halfway marks for total ballots cast in 2016, including competitive states like Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona, Florida, Colorado, and Nevada.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody needs to make their voice heard.

BROWN: And we continue to see huge lines at some early polling places like Indiana.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm afraid that we don't have to stand in line four years from now like this.

BROWN: In New York City, Mayor Bill de Blasio waited over three hours on Tuesday.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY, NY: For all of us, it was an extraordinary frustrating experience. People waiting through hours to vote is unacceptable.

BROWN: And North Carolina, voters have cast more than 75 percent of the total votes cast in the entire 2016 election. And in Pennsylvania, concerns about counting ballots. Election

officials are not allowed to start processing early ballots until Election Day by law.

KATHY BOOCKVAR, PENNSYLVANIA SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm going to strongly urge every single county to pre-count the ballots on election day. If it's not 7:00 a.m., some point on Election Day, because it's going to be take a while and the sooner they start, the sooner they will finish.

BROWN: But the state's counties have vastly different plans how they will begin processing them Tuesday. Some counties are starting the morning of Election Day while other areas plan to start later and tally in-person votes first.

The U.S. Postal Service now taking on the most aggressive oversight it's faced in handling of election mail. Tuesday, a federal judge ordered immediate action to ensure extra efforts are being made to deliver ballots on time and something the postal service insists it's already doing.

And in Michigan, the secretary of state is trying to keep guns away from the polls filing an emergency appeal after a judge reversed her ban on open carry of firearms on Election Day.

HEATHER MEINGAST: We have had numerous complaints. There are voters who are afraid and there are election workers who are afraid who goes to work on Election Day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And also in Michigan, Jake, poll challengers can now get within six feet of an election worker if they want to make a specific challenge. This is a loosening of the socially distancing requirements due to the pandemic.

And I just want to re-emphasize here, 28 states require your ballot to arrive before or on Election Day in order for it to count. And so, now, election officials are saying if you're in one of those 28 states to either drop off your ballot an election office or drop box if you have that information.

For more information on all of this, just go to our website, CNN.com/vote -- Jake.

TAPPER: That's right. CNN.com.com/vote to find out everything you need to know about voting in your own state.

Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

We have another person in the long list of Republicans and former Trump supporters and administration officials and campaign officials to come out against President Trump and in support of Joe Biden.

Jessica Denson who led Hispanic engagement effort for the Trump campaign in 2016 had to this say about the Trump campaign in an ad from Republican Voters Against Trump exclusively shared with THE LEAD.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, REPUBLICAN VOTERS AGAINST TRUMP)

JESSICA DENSON, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR OF HISPANIC OUTREACH 2016: The campaign was a vile, self-serving branding exercise for one man and his family. Donald Trump does not care about the welfare of the people. Everything that the Trump campaign championed is a complete lie and it is at the detriment of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:55:04]

TAPPER: And Jessica Denson joins me now.

So, that's a pretty strong language -- a complete lie, a vile, self- serving branding exercises. What did you see in your time working with the Trump campaign that gave you that impression?

DENSON: Well, what I saw, Jake, was -- thank you for having me, by the way -- was that my motive to go and help that campaign and be of service to the American people was sabotaged and I've seen my experience repeated in the experience of one public servant after another over the past four years. I've seen that this campaign continues to go out brandishing a bible and an American flag and claiming that they have anything to do with freedom, but I've lived first-hand that they had anything to do -- they have nothing to do with freedom. They have worked very much against free speech and democracy.

TAPPER: So you filed a lawsuit along with some other 2016 Trump campaign staffers. You say that you were silenced because you signed these nondisclosure agreements.

Explain why you wanted to be free of this nondisclosure agreement and why you sued.

DENSON: Frankly, when I decided -- decided to file my lawsuit three years ago, it was a direction from God. I did not feel like I could live with myself if I did not take action about what happened to me in the campaign.

I frankly did not think that the nondisclosure agreement would even be an issue, but they weaponized against me and it turns out upon greater study of this ludicrous document that it's wildly illegal, unconstitutional, and I am one of several cases that they have used as an example to show the American people that they will punish people who speak out against them.

But many, many more -- I'm one of the few that has spoken out. Many, many, are deterred for the rest of their lives, Jake, from speaking a negative word, not only about Donald Trump but about any one of his family members, his multiple businesses, any one of these entities can enforce these agreements against people and it's just fundamentally un-American.

TAPPER: So, let me ask you a question I'm sure you've remembered from other individuals, which is you went to work for President Trump or candidate Trump in 2016 doing Hispanic outreach. He launched his campaign, casting aspersions on the kind of people that were crossing the border from Mexico, saying that they were rapists and drug dealers and some, I'm sure, are good people, which offended a lot of Latinos and a lot of other people on behalf of Latinos.

So, I'm sure a lot of people in the Latino community have said, how, you must have known what you were getting in to you went to work for him. What did you tell them?

DENSON: I tell them it's a fair perspective. And in retrospect, I agree 100 percent. But I spent the past administration, better part of eight years watching conservative, being brainwashed into thinking that the Democrats were really dangerous and were going to take away our freedoms, which I do not believe anymore. I understand how deeply mesmerized I was into that false narrative.

And I thought that Donald Trump was going to be a fighter for the American people. So I kind of put the best construction on everything he said and -- Father, forgive me -- believed him in his con has he was going to put his own interest aside and be a public servant for this country.

TAPPER: As a woman who worked for the Trump campaign, I want to get your reaction to a comment that President Trump made in an attempt, I guess, to appease suburban women at a rally yesterday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Also getting your husbands -- they want to get back to work, right? They want to get back to work. We are getting your husbands back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I've heard from a number of women voters today who said that that was a bridge too far, that really was demeaning towards women.

Did you ever feel you were treated dimple as a woman in a position of leadership on the Trump campaign in 2016?

DENSON: Of course, I was. I was called a sheep by the man who hired me. That was the nicer of some more derogatory terms that he used behind my back. He is now about to be named the federal chief security information officer which is unfathomable.

But yes, myself and numerous other women who are silenced to this day had similar experiences. Donald Trump talked a lot in 2016 about the dignity of work. I, as a woman, and just in general as someone who came to that campaign with a spirit of service, have never experienced greater indignity or disrespect in my life, and I hope the American people understand this message. I hope they understand that when Donald Trump plays the victim, he is

not the victim. He is only a victim of his own deceit. And if you want salvation for this country and redemption even for Donald Trump, he needs accountability like water in the desert and I hope that you will give that to him, coming up in just six days.

TAPPER: All right. Jessica Denson, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter @JakeTapper. You can tweet the show @TheLeadCNN.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

[17:00:00]